12-15-2014 04:14 PM
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  1. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    What makes something not necessary? The fact that N_LaRUE doesn't feel that need?
    Because in my language, something is necessary when someone needs it and it seems that ntice_521 needs a lot of things you marked as "not necessary".
    Instead of blabbing at me, why not try and convince me it's necessary? Explain to me why. Just because I can is not sufficient reason.

    Also, I have the necessity to export my sms into a parsable file (like a txt, or xml if you know what it is).
    Is it also not necessary because you don't have this necessity?
    Please don't try to insult me. I've been using computers since I was 8 years old, that means over 30 years. Where did I say that wasn't necessary? Where did I say I wanted excessive limits?

    Curious you think this is not necessary... because I recall that few months ago wpcentral posted a xap for pinning the new gdr3 "rotation lock" tile.
    It shouldn't have done that because it is not necessary, right?
    Again, you're making crap up. Where did I say this wasn't necessary? I'm not saying the OS doesn't need to grow or get better, I'm saying there's no reason why that app couldn't have been in the Store.

    Stop putting words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say I wanted to halt innovation or more apps or a better OS.

    What does jailbreaking, custom ROMs and 3rd party apps have anything to do with making the OS better? Explain that to me. Please. Cause I'm at a loss to.

    I bougth WP for it's interesting design, it's interface and at first I was annoyed at a few things but I got over it. The OS will continue to get better. It's not perfect. Can it get better? Sure. Do I want it to be done right, yes.
    Guytronic and cckgz4 like this.
    12-17-2013 05:36 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    WP doesn't let you set the default web browser. That's very basic. More advanced would allow different keyboards, different start screen, etc.
    Default browser, OK, I'll give you that but it is WP, so why should they care?
    Keyboards, question of taste. Some people love the WP keyboard.
    Don't quite understand the 'diferent' Start screen. The whole purpose of WP is the Start screen. If you want to change it that makes little sense to me. Or do you mean multiple Start screens? Not sure what I think of that.

    The vast majority of apps will come from the store no matter what. But non-store apps are part of the ecosystem. They include free and hobbyist apps, unsupported apps, apps that Microsoft disapproves of or can't associate itself with, etc.
    Yes, which is why they're not in the Store. Why should a company like MS put itself in that kind of position? You're talking of jailbreaking, which is how people get those apps onto iOS. Good luck trying to jailbreak WP. Maybe one day it will happen. However, MS isn't going to encourage it in the same way that Apple doesn't. So not sure what revelance this has in this conversation. You want MS to loosen up so you can jailbreak WP? Not going to happen.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-17-2013 05:42 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    WP doesn't let you set the default web browser. That's very basic. More advanced would allow different keyboards, different start screen, etc.
    Those are different examples. I don't understand what you mean by "different start screen", but I can see how the other features may be useful. Obviously, not every feature is unnecessary, and WP does still have a lot of catching up to do.

    My point was that not every feature that can be implemented should be implemented. Most people are too unimaginative to think of original features that would jive well with WP themselves. Instead they just maintain a mental checklist of features that they've seen on Android... thinking that more checkmarks = better. Taking that approach to software development always leads to junk software that tries to be everything to everyone, which ultimately nobody enjoys using.

    The vast majority of apps will come from the store no matter what. But non-store apps are part of the ecosystem. They include free and hobbyist apps, unsupported apps, apps that Microsoft disapproves of or can't associate itself with, etc.
    You obviously don't work in the software business. It only takes one malicious app to screw up a smartphone or invade a user's privacy. Thousands of malicious apps are developed each year. It's also a fact of life that consumers never blame themselves for problems they themselves caused. It's always the OS that is either too restricted/locked-down or too insecure. In the face of such ignorance, all software developers can do is decide which of those two labels they would rather have slapped on their product. Developers try to find the most optimal balance, but no matter what they do, not everyone will be happy.

    A controlled app store is one approach to dealing with some of these issues. Apparently you find that too restricting, but it's an imagined restriction at best, as it is easily solved by spending $20. Even teenagers can afford $20. If it's not worth $20 to have an app made available world wide, then the app is definitely not worth having access to either.

    There is no economic reason to circumvent the app store. That leaves us with some technical reasons, and those are best dealt with by specific policy or API changes, allowing some apps to be published that would currently be rejected. You are taking a sledge hammer to a problem that is better dealt with using a scalpel.
    N_LaRUE, mpt15, LumiaWorld and 1 others like this.
    12-17-2013 10:57 AM
  4. ntice_521's Avatar
    Those are different examples. I don't understand what you mean by "different start screen", but I can see how the other features may be useful. Obviously, not every feature is unnecessary, and WP does still have a lot of catching up to do.

    My point was that not every feature that can be implemented should be implemented. Most people are too unimaginative to think of original features that would jive well with WP themselves. Instead they just maintain a mental checklist of features that they've seen on Android... thinking that more checkmarks = better. Taking that approach to software development always leads to junk software that tries to be everything to everyone, which ultimately nobody enjoys using.
    I'm just giving my views based on my experience with WP. I think most people do the same.
    12-17-2013 06:49 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Sailfish is really piquing my interest. Apps are not nearly as important to me as are functions.

    WP has the best virtual kb I've ever tried, even on smaller screens. The People Hub is the best contact integration since webOS Synergy and Office is, Office. What I can't get around is the inability to attach multiple file types on a single email. Windows Mobile was the absolute best at this. SkyDrive is great but a full-fledged file manager with network browsing is sorely lacking. But the one thing that makes WP a deal breaker for me is the lack of desktop sync. I don't mean just music and photos. I'm talking the Nokia Suite from the Symbian days that backed up SMS, contacts, etc. and even allowed me to send & receive texts from my x86 tablet. Maybe it's me, but I feel as though smartphones were a lot smarter before the iPhone.
    12-17-2013 07:17 PM
  6. Ek-Balam's Avatar
    Sailfish is really piquing my interest. Apps are not nearly as important to me as are functions.

    WP has the best virtual kb I've ever tried, even on smaller screens. The People Hub is the best contact integration since webOS Synergy and Office is, Office. What I can't get around is the inability to attach multiple file types on a single email. Windows Mobile was the absolute best at this. SkyDrive is great but a full-fledged file manager with network browsing is sorely lacking. But the one thing that makes WP a deal breaker for me is the lack of desktop sync. I don't mean just music and photos. I'm talking the Nokia Suite from the Symbian days that backed up SMS, contacts, etc. and even allowed me to send & receive texts from my x86 tablet. Maybe it's me, but I feel as though smartphones were a lot smarter before the iPhone.
    YEH!!! Could not have said it any better!
    dgr_874 likes this.
    12-17-2013 07:40 PM
  7. 5150 Joker's Avatar
    With 8.1 coming and my awesome 1520, they would have to pay me to switch.

    Sent from my RM-937_apac_hong_kong_222 using Tapatalk
    b23h likes this.
    12-18-2013 03:06 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    I'm talking the Nokia Suite from the Symbian days that backed up SMS, contacts, etc. and even allowed me to send & receive texts from my x86 tablet. Maybe it's me, but I feel as though smartphones were a lot smarter before the iPhone.
    I don't understand why anyone would still require desktop sync. Syncing contacts (and everything else) with the cloud is how it's going to be from now on. P2P synching directly between devices will become evermore unmanageable as the number of electronic devices we carry around further increases. The industry has pretty much consolidated on the idea that such an approach is dead, including Google and Apple.

    As for the ability to send/receive texts via cloud connected devices, I completely agree. I'm expecting that for WP 8.1
    12-18-2013 09:09 AM
  9. Ek-Balam's Avatar
    I don't understand why anyone would still require desktop sync. Syncing contacts (and everything else) with the cloud is how it's going to be from now on. P2P synching directly between devices will become evermore unmanageable as the number of electronic devices we carry around further increases. The industry has pretty much consolidated on the idea that such an approach is dead, including Google and Apple.

    As for the ability to send/receive texts via cloud connected devices, I completely agree. I'm expecting that for WP 8.1
    Because their are still use models that forbid the use of the cloud. Further, "cloud" only options make the assumption that internet connectivity is absolutely ubiquitous. It is still far from it. Where I live, I still have times during my work and personal days that I have no cell or wifi access......... The ability to choose is a powerful thing.
    12-18-2013 09:33 AM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    Maybe it's me, but I feel as though smartphones were a lot smarter before the iPhone.
    They were. Recently had to use an N97 to transfer some texts and while its not "modern" the actual functionality was years ahead of WP. I guess a lot of people haven't experienced a really powerful mobile OS but WP is far less functional than its made out to be and the drip-drip rate of updates isn't helping at all.
    Ek-Balam likes this.
    12-18-2013 09:38 AM
  11. suniltamboli's Avatar
    I love Windows phone as a OS.I just hope they get rid off all the minor bugs in the os.
    b23h likes this.
    12-18-2013 09:56 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    Because their are still use models that forbid the use of the cloud. Further, "cloud" only options make the assumption that internet connectivity is absolutely ubiquitous. It is still far from it. Where I live, I still have times during my work and personal days that I have no cell or wifi access......... The ability to choose is a powerful thing.
    How about giving an example of such a use case, instead of just expecting me to believe that one exists?

    The only valid argument I'm aware of is confidentiality. I'm not buying the argument that people have such confidentiality requirements in their private lives. Businesses can easily setup their own servers to store confidential information that WP devices can sync with. No problem.

    If you are completely cut off from the internet, no wifi, no cell tower reception, nothing, then you probably have other things to worry about than synching your contact information with the cloud. Even then, it's not as if you can't access your contacts without internet access.

    The "choice" argument is only valid if your are given a choice between equally sensible options. Direct P2P synching is no longer considered sensible, because it's unmanageable with more than two devices, which people also expect to work reliably.
    12-18-2013 10:09 AM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    How about giving an example of such a use case, instead of just expecting me to believe that one exists?

    The only valid argument I'm aware of is confidentiality. I'm not buying the argument that people have such confidentiality requirements in their private lives. Businesses can easily setup their own servers to store confidential information that WP devices can sync with. No problem.

    If you are completely cut off from the internet, no wifi, no cell tower reception, nothing, then you probably have other things to worry about than synching your contact information with the cloud. Even then, it's not as if you can't access your contacts without internet access.

    The "choice" argument is only valid if your are given a choice between equally sensible options. Direct P2P synching is no longer considered sensible, because it's unmanageable with more than two devices, which people also expect to work reliably.
    There isn't one single hospital in the Miami area that allows any of its records (I'm referring to plant operations, not patient) to be released from their servers. You want a record, fill out a req form, wait a week or use your device to navigate the folders on the server. Windows Mobile did this natively, it's one of the main arguments for a file manager. Any facility that uses MRI equipment or nuclear imaging guarantees zero reception. Walk inside the mechanical room or electrical room of ANY building and your reception is as useless as a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest. There are many companies that are still being run by old-school types like me that will not place sensitive information on any cloud server. This will not change anytime soon.
    Ek-Balam likes this.
    12-18-2013 12:12 PM
  14. immyperez's Avatar
    Windows is future, but i hate the present..its disappointing..


    I regularly recorded my lectures through android phone, than i sold it thinking wp has better media.. But i am doomed, not a single recorder is upto mark.. Its is not that windows phone lacks hardware.. Surprisingly, recording on whatsapp and video recording is just awesome.. Microsoft dint made an inbuilt recording app?? Nor even nokia is making any efforts to make any stable recording apps.. Nokia makes crap nokia chat beta, which is a waste, why cant they make one stable recorder?? I wonder how WhatsApp and video recording has flawless audio quality recording?? I lost so many lectures without recording, i am doomed.. I have to attend lecture more 12 months.. Recording audio was only option as later i can recall.. But basic things are missing in windows phone.. I tried almost all apps in stores.. Poor quality of recording, it often crashed for long recording... My class lectures are long, 5-6 hours.. I can't miss recording for a single minute.. But... Leave.. M very sad.. Sorry guys..


    Moreover, MSFT is least bothered about Non-USA region..


    Scroogled campaign disappointed me about Microsoft behaviour. Microsoft choose to cut competitor instead of competing..


    Lack of quality apps, totally unstable, beta , betas and betas...currently and totally depressed due to over decision of switching to Lumina/Window phone, can't buy new phone either.. I have spend all savings for my classes...


    Just a better recorder could made me happy..


    First and last windows phone, Lumia 625...



    Sent via tapatalk
    Mini Recorder Free - TRY IT
    12-18-2013 12:25 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    <snipped>
    Thank you for adding some substance to this conversation

    However, I think you're mixing up two very different topics. Your point is that WP requires the ability to access network folders. I'm definitely not going to argue with that, but it also isn't what we were previously discussing (or at least Ek-Balam and I weren't). We were discussing the ability to sync contact information in a P2P fashion, for example between your smartphone and your laptop. That is what I was referring to, when I claimed that approach is dead. That approach has been completely replaced by cloud syncing services, while still allowing companies to manage that data themselves if they are so inclined.
    12-18-2013 12:40 PM
  16. Ek-Balam's Avatar
    How about giving an example of such a use case, instead of just expecting me to believe that one exists?

    The only valid argument I'm aware of is confidentiality. I'm not buying the argument that people have such confidentiality requirements in their private lives. Businesses can easily setup their own servers to store confidential information that WP devices can sync with. No problem.

    If you are completely cut off from the internet, no wifi, no cell tower reception, nothing, then you probably have other things to worry about than synching your contact information with the cloud. Even then, it's not as if you can't access your contacts without internet access.

    The "choice" argument is only valid if your are given a choice between equally sensible options. Direct P2P synching is no longer considered sensible, because it's unmanageable with more than two devices, which people also expect to work reliably.
    I perceive you as rather bright and articulate. It surprises me that you can not envision such a need with out a particular example.However, I will do my best to do so. Granted, the example I have chosen may also include some of other short comings of WP8 for the business user but I hope that there is enough meat on the bone to illustrate the point. Your "valid" argument is primarily correct - Confidentiality is the key issue. However, it fails to account for the B2B aspect of confidentiality. I hope you and other readers might find this example apropos and possibly a little concerning depending on one's use model and priority it is from Microsoft themselves:

    I am a vendor to the MS hardware groups worldwide. I am in front of MS Engineers, Marketeers, Program Mangers and Purchasing Agents regularly. In this capacity, I am party to a number of NDAs (non-disclosure agreements). Some of these agreements outline the control and limitation of information in the digital sense. i.e.; one of those limitations is that certain information can not be committed to the "cloud" in any form (also Sky Drive). This sometimes includes the name and contact information of some of the stake holders. P2P sync and the ability to either selectively control what goes to the cloud would sure come in handy.

    One might imagine that it is highly frowned upon in Redmond to carry a non WP device around on campus and into meetings particularly for MS employees (Apples could draw a lynch mob). I have witnessed many MS folks carrying various WP devices in my meetings but have also witnessed a great majority working "double fisted" - needing to carry another smartphone to get simple work done (mostly Androids and BlackBerrys) all the while lamenting the lack of productivity, flexibility and customization of their WP8 phones and the decisions of their compatriots in the WP OS development group. - no VPN, limited email attachments, file management, poor landscape mode support, etal.. This tells me that one, MS themselves does not fully trust the cloud and two, even the most dyed in the wool, cool-aide drinking, committed MS employees can't even use their own product for anything other than a content vacuum. Further, and more concerning is that because of these limitations, some of the brightest minds at MS are "not eating their own dog food" to make the product even better.

    In regard to your comment; "If you are completely cut off from the internet, no wifi, no cell tower reception, nothing, then you probably have other things to worry about"..... shows a good deal of myopia on your part, leaving me to assume that if you in fact live in the US, you must live and work either east of the Mississippi or in California. Take a gander at the North American coverage maps for all the major call carriers (particularly note the non-California West and Canada) then come back and comment again. If you are blessed enough to have ubiquitous coverage, great for you! However a good number of people live and work happily not blessed with your situation.

    If truly adore a lot about WP8. I believe it has a load of upside potential. However, I look forward to the day when I don't need to work "double fisted" and can make my WP device my sole, go-to solution. The frustration is it would not be that difficult to do and still maintain the ease and elegance of the current OS.
    Last edited by Ek-Balam; 12-18-2013 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Spelling
    b23h likes this.
    12-18-2013 01:12 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Thank you for adding some substance to this conversation

    However, I think you're mixing up two very different topics. Your point is that WP requires the ability to access network folders. I'm definitely not going to argue with that, but it also isn't what we were previously discussing (or at least Ek-Balam and I weren't). We were discussing the ability to sync contact information in a P2P fashion, for example between your smartphone and your laptop. That is what I was referring to, when I claimed that approach is dead. That approach has been completely replaced by cloud syncing services, while still allowing companies to manage that data themselves if they are so inclined.
    Actually, I was citing an instance where cloud file-sharing is a no-no and another instance where the cloud is simply unreachable. I should have gone further by adding that with the network sharing option, you can retrieve the necessary files and then sync them with an x86-based "real" computer. Removable storage is an easier way to sync, but there aren't as many phones with removable storage as there once were, and none with WP7. As I mentioned before, there are still too many of us old-timers that cannot or will not trust sensitive data to a cloud server. Especially here in South Flori-Duh where afternoon thunderstorms frequently knock out power or hurricanes that knock it out for weeks. I imagine the Northeast gets its fair share of winter storms that cause logistical/infrastructure nightmares as well.
    Ek-Balam likes this.
    12-18-2013 04:02 PM
  18. Corey's Avatar
    I have my upgrade coming in June, so I've been keeping an eye on everything out there to see if my next phone will be another windows phone or if I'll be trying something else. There are a number of things that I truly enjoy about this phone and the OS, but some of the other stuff has become frustrating. I've had a lot of problems with the WiFi lately that just haven't been resolved and that are related to the OS. It didn't become a big issue until the Amber updates were pushed out and I wasn't able to update my phone on my home router. I know OTA updates are the way that everything is going, but it was of no use to me when I just wasn't able to connect to my wifi. I've been dealing with frustrations from wifi, bluetooth, and other connectivity issues that seem to happen on both my lumia 900 and 920. It's been frustrating finding a decent case that either isn't excessively bulky, or not cheaply made. Every so often there is an app or two that I'd like to use that just doesn't exist on windows phone. Granted, the app situation has been getting better, but there are still times that I am just left frustrated that there isn't an app that I'd like to use for this phone and it doesn't seem like it will be coming any time soon. The little things are just becoming more frustrating, but I'm waiting it out to see if the OS problems I'm running into are fixed in the next update, and waiting to see if the app growth continues. There really isn't any hardware that's out right now that compels me to bail from WP and switch to a different OS, but the little things are starting to bug me.
    12-20-2013 10:12 AM
  19. DBZo07's Avatar
    Im confused ,

    I have choice for

    Moto x

    iPhone 5s

    Nexus 5



    Which will be best ??

    Any idea?

    Edit: I am a bit frustrated with wp, i recently took L 625, i found all my favourite to be launched for 1gb only... Lumia625 was launched with tag bigger screen, bigger processor and faster... Trolled..

    Sent from my RM-941_im_india_204 using Tapatalk
    12-21-2013 10:28 AM
  20. broar94's Avatar
    Nexus 5 if u want android. IPhone 5s if you want apple but its excessively priced.
    DBZo07 likes this.
    12-21-2013 05:20 PM
  21. m3kk's Avatar
    Im confused ,

    I have choice for

    Moto x

    iPhone 5s

    Nexus 5



    Which will be best ??

    Any idea?

    Edit: I am a bit frustrated with wp, i recently took L 625, i found all my favourite to be launched for 1gb only... Lumia625 was launched with tag bigger screen, bigger processor and faster... Trolled..

    Sent from my RM-941_im_india_204 using Tapatalk
    Obviously you get 5S > sell and buy Lumia 1520/1020 AND nexus 5, yes 5S is that overpriced. Moto x lol
    Always go for the most expensive. From there you can change it to what you like..what will you trade your Moto x for? Last Gen wp8 device? IPhone 4S?
    12-21-2013 05:31 PM
  22. henry.gray's Avatar
    I had the HTC HD7 Windows Phone 7 Handset, which I thoroughly loved having, then I sold that to get the Windows Phone 8X, which due to a OS change I got a SGS3, which later I became tired off, for a quad core phone it was slow as hell. Then onto iPhone I went, but didn't like that either, all this time, missing the live tiles, so back onto 8X I went and that is what I have now. I suppose I will upgrade handset possible when Windows Phone 10 I released.
    DBZo07 likes this.
    12-21-2013 05:49 PM
  23. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    They were. Recently had to use an N97 to transfer some texts and while its not "modern" the actual functionality was years ahead of WP. I guess a lot of people haven't experienced a really powerful mobile OS but WP is far less functional than its made out to be and the drip-drip rate of updates isn't helping at all.
    Symbian was really a full-featured OS back then. I personally prefer it than Android in the specs side of view because it does not require a gazillion of cores and RAM to work properly. Too bad Nokia didn't maximize the potential of Symbian.

    But hey, at least we have those Lumias. 😉😃
    12-21-2013 06:49 PM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Symbian was really a full-featured OS back then. I personally prefer it than Android in the specs side of view because it does not require a gazillion of cores and RAM to work properly. Too bad Nokia didn't maximize the potential of Symbian.

    But hey, at least we have those Lumias. 
    Agreed. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Symbian had a lot of features no longer used. I'd say Windows Mobile was even more complete. What did Symbian in was Nokia's reluctance to simplify their menus and adopt the popular features of the day. It wasn't until Anna that a portrait keyboard came to be and that was too late. The HD2 showed what WM could be running a proper 1gig cpu on a capacitive screen but again, a day late and a dollar short.
    12-21-2013 07:08 PM
  25. DBZo07's Avatar
    Nexus 5 if u want android. IPhone 5s if you want apple but its excessively priced.



    i have s4, but it drains like hell..
    Will nexus5 drain at same rate??
    S4 drains at 13hrs normal usage of whatsapp and googling now and than...



    Sent from my L625
    12-22-2013 03:19 AM
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