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01-31-2014 09:02 PM
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  1. k0de's Avatar
    "An original equipment manufacturer, or OEM".

    Just a thought. How do you take down a Sovereign power such as MSFT? And give power to a Farthing such as the other (2) dominating platforms?

    What about the Trojan Horse approach. For example placing unstable CEO in OEM offices and giving them power to ruin a company future goals such as MSFT.

    Is it time for MSFT to rid of all OEM and start manufacturing their own hardware?
    01-20-2014 09:46 PM
  2. John20212's Avatar
    .....
    Is it time for MSFT to rid of all OEM and start manufacturing their own hardware?
    ...they already do that, i.e. Surface; and they will soon have a WP division as well making hardware once the Nokia transfer is complete.


    p.s. this should probably be moved to the correct forum section.
    k0de likes this.
    01-20-2014 09:54 PM
  3. k0de's Avatar
    ...they already do that, i.e. Surface; and they will soon have a WP division as well making hardware once the Nokia transfer is complete.


    p.s. this should probably be moved to the.
    Agree. But what about the remaining OEM's partners? Should MSFT also get rid of them?
    01-20-2014 10:05 PM
  4. Premium1's Avatar
    Agree. But what about the remaining OEM's partners? Should MSFT also get rid of them?
    I don't think it would really hurt the OEM's, if anything I think this would actually help them. They would no longer be developing for WP/W8 so they could focus on other projects (OS's, etc) which could ultimately hurt MS if they went to android or another OS and began producing items for said OS.
    snowmutt and k0de like this.
    01-20-2014 10:21 PM
  5. k0de's Avatar
    I don't think it would really hurt the OEM's, if anything I think this would actually help them. They would no longer be developing for WP/W8 so they could focus on other projects (OS's, etc) which could ultimately hurt MS if they went to android or another OS and began producing items for said OS.
    So. OEM made MSFT Sovereign? Or was it or is it the other way around?
    01-20-2014 10:34 PM
  6. neo158's Avatar
    The problem with ditching OEMs is that there would be no competition in the market which would allow Microsoft/Nokia to charge whatever they want, this would mean that Microsoft would eventually be reduced to a niche company like Apple.
    01-21-2014 08:14 AM
  7. Jas00555's Avatar
    The problem with ditching OEMs is that there would be no competition in the market which would allow Microsoft/Nokia to charge whatever they want, this would mean that Microsoft would eventually be reduced to a niche company like Apple.
    I think Steve Ballmer would assassinate a world leader to have Microsoft be worth as much as and be as well-loved as Apple. Lol "niche company" that's hilarious.
    neo158, snowmutt and tissotti like this.
    01-21-2014 08:35 AM
  8. neo158's Avatar
    I think Steve Ballmer would assassinate a world leader to have Microsoft be worth as much as and be as well-loved as Apple. Lol "niche company" that's hilarious.
    Well look at how much market share Apple have compared to Microsoft across all their products.

    With WP holding such a small portion of the market ditching OEMs would be suicide. Contrary to what people think, not everyone wants a Nokia Windows Phone.
    01-22-2014 05:20 AM
  9. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    Yes and no, there are benefits and disadvantages. When talking about PCs, the only reason why MS is as big as it is is because of OEMs, its a numbers game, you have apple, which is 1 manufacture, vs dell, hp, lenovo, asus, sony, toshiba, acer, etc. Thats why windows won the PC market and thats also why android, in terms of marketshare have the smartphone market. On the downside, its up to OEMS to supply drivers and then they put bloatware in to make money so the OEM model has its advantages and disadvantages...
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-22-2014 07:56 AM
  10. k0de's Avatar
    Well look at how much market share Apple have compared to Microsoft across all their products.
    Hmmm. Lets see that is a easy one.

    Apple: iPhone, iPad, gee nothing else.

    MSFT: Visual Studio (oouch apple has to sell lots of iPhones and ipads just to keep up with that one alone.), Bing, Windows 8, Windows XP, Windows 7, Vista, Office, MSFT SQL Server 2012, xbox these are just a few.

    And now Surface 2, Windows Phone 8

    Apple is just a farthing compare to MSFT.
    Last edited by k0de; 01-22-2014 at 05:09 PM.
    01-22-2014 04:58 PM
  11. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Hmmm. Lets see that is a easy one.

    Apple: iPhone, iPad, gee nothing else.

    MSFT: Visual Studio (oouch apple has to sell lots of iPhones and ipads just to keep up with that one alone.), Bing, Windows 8, Windows XP, Windows 7, Vista, Office, MSFT SQL Server 2012, xbox these are just a few.

    And now Surface 2, Windows Phone 8

    Apple is just a farthing compare to MSFT.
    Apple mostly goes after different consumers than Apple. Apple users like simplicity, while we like to get new features and have (fun) challenges.
    01-22-2014 05:38 PM
  12. anony_mouse's Avatar
    "An original equipment manufacturer, or OEM".

    Just a thought. How do you take down a Sovereign power such as MSFT? And give power to a Farthing such as the other (2) dominating platforms?

    What about the Trojan Horse approach. For example placing unstable CEO in OEM offices and giving them power to ruin a company future goals such as MSFT.

    Is it time for MSFT to rid of all OEM and start manufacturing their own hardware?
    Are you claiming that someone is deliberately trying to bring down Microsoft by installing "unstable" CEO's at OEM's?
    Who is doing this? Why are they doing it?
    01-28-2014 01:44 AM
  13. HeyCori's Avatar
    Judging by the financial reports I'd say that OEMs have spent the last few years ruining themselves more than Microsoft.
    Laura Knotek, Reflexx and snowmutt like this.
    01-28-2014 02:11 AM
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Judging by the financial reports I'd say that OEMs have spent the last few years ruining themselves more than Microsoft.
    That's true. HP has certainly been hurt by its unstable CEOs, but that hasn't hurt Microsoft.
    HeyCori and snowmutt like this.
    01-28-2014 02:17 AM
  15. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Judging by the financial reports I'd say that OEMs have spent the last few years ruining themselves more than Microsoft.
    To be fair to the OEM's, there is blame on both sides. OEM's have certainly shown a lack of imagination, but they operate in a very competitive market with very tight margins. These are not good conditions to take risks and try something new. And Microsoft didn't give them the tools to innovate. For example, their OEM's couldn't have introduced a mass market tablet ahead of the iPad, as Windows was simply not a suitable platform.

    Ironically, the locked down nature of Windows RT and Windows Phone now make it even harder for OEM's to do something new. Compare that with Android which is now appearing, for example, on smart watches and televisions. Maybe these products will succeed or maybe they won't, but at least Google are in the game and at very little cost, as the manufacturers adapt Android to these new devices themselves. In contrast, Microsoft have chosen to limit their products just to smart phones and tablets and a few chipsets, screen resolutions, etc. Imagine that smart watches become a success - in a few years' time, Microsoft will launch "Windows Watch", but as with Windows Phone and Windows RT, it will be too far late.

    This lack of flexibility is a major long term mistake.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 01-28-2014 at 03:02 AM.
    01-28-2014 02:35 AM
  16. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Apple is just a farthing compare to MSFT.
    Just a farthing? I think they are slightly more than that. Let's have a look at market capitalisation (figures from Yahoo finance, shortly before the time of this post):
    Apple: USD 459.24 billion
    Microsoft: USD 298.91 billion
    And just for fun...
    Google: USD 375.08 billion
    01-28-2014 10:14 AM
  17. jmshub's Avatar
    While OEMs were responsible for Microsoft's early success, they have been mostly responsible for much of worst of Windows for a long time. A brand new PC comes loaded down with so much crapware and trial versions of junk that a brand new copy of Windows is choking on a brand new PC. Or else they muck up Windows UI by creating these odd proprietary launchers and docks onscreen. They are the single reason that Microsoft had to launch the Signature program, to offer PCs that include Windows, unfettered by the tons of extraneous crap.

    And now, with Microsoft in the hardware business with the Surface, you hear indignation from HP and Acer. They are the very reason that Microsoft decided they would have to go it alone to get their tablet built to their vision.
    01-28-2014 10:22 AM
  18. taymur's Avatar
    I think yes, they are destroying Microsoft. Till now, no manufacturer have an idea on how to implement the software correctly.

    I have no idea how people are buying these new devices! Only 2 devices make sense to me, and they come from Microsoft and Lenovo. Other than that, its just weird implementations.

    And yet users are not that bright either. I read a review of the surface rt,
    "....it was very bad I couldn't install games on it, sent it back, got a kindle fire, best tablet..."

    What games that you tried to install? Did you try installing them on the kindle fire? Did it work?
    01-28-2014 10:25 AM
  19. davidD93's Avatar
    Apple mostly goes after different consumers than Apple.
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    01-28-2014 03:11 PM
  20. snowmutt's Avatar
    ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    unstoppablekem obviously meant "Apple mostly goes after different consumers then Microsoft." All you had to do was read the rest of his post @#11 to catch on.
    01-28-2014 04:38 PM
  21. snowmutt's Avatar
    No, OEM's are not ruining Microsoft. All you have to do is look at the numbers past the shrill: PCs/Laptops STILL outsell Tablets. In 2013, only 22% of personel computing sales were tablets. (For that figure and how the tablet shares broke down, here is a link: Report: Apple's iPad Has Dominated US Tablet Sales In 2013 -- AppAdvice).

    To put that another way, PCs/Laptops/Notebooks accounted for 78% of computer sales. That means what tablets sold in the ENTIRE YEAR is equal to less then 1 quarter and a half of the sales of traditional computers. (I had a hard time finding a link for a breakdown of all sales, even though I know I have seen it somewhere freaking recently.)

    These are all OEM produced products. Microsoft simply isn't in a position to remove these partners from their process. More so, why would they? I think the biggest problem we have on WPC is we get lost on the consumer side of mobile, forgetting there is a reason why MS can afford to lose money on WP for 3 years, Bing for nearly a decade, and XBOX for about 6 years. They are a enterprise company, and that cannot change. Even as they start to compete in the mobile landscape, any profits they may get from all their consumer efforts, (such as XBOX games, XBOX music, and their MSN network) their other communication/cloud efforts (such as Bing which is showing a profit finally, Skydrive, and Skype) and their mobile offerings (our beloved WP and Surface products) PALE in comparison to Office, Azure, Windows software and Enterprise support products and solutions. Like "drop in the bucket" style pale in comparison. These do not happen without OEM sales and partnerships.

    Even if this is a strickly Windows Phone conversation, forget it. It wasn't Microsoft that made their OS competitive in the feild. Without HTC, Windows Phone 7 never gets a second look. (For that matter, HTC was the main Windows Mobile partner as well.) Samsung put out the 2 best reviewed WP 7 and WP 7.5 devices here in the States in the original Focus and the Focus S. And it was an independent Nokia that kicked WP growth out of the sludge. Their dedication to creating excellent hardware, unique software, and getting developers onboard was nothing short of amazing. Would we have the ESPN App selections, Instagram, and dozens of games with Nokia going out and beating the bushes? Nope, not a chance.

    MS needs OEMs. They need the drive, they need original thoughts, designs, promotion, and top shelf devices. A MS all by itself would be a company I wouldn't be excited to see.
    HeyCori, Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    01-28-2014 05:14 PM
  22. anony_mouse's Avatar
    While OEMs were responsible for Microsoft's early success, they have been mostly responsible for much of worst of Windows for a long time.
    As always, let's blame someone else!
    01-28-2014 11:28 PM
  23. k0de's Avatar
    Are you claiming that someone is deliberately trying to bring down Microsoft by installing "unstable" CEO's at OEM's?
    Who is doing this? Why are they doing it?
    Yes I am. This is not documented just my two cents. My speculation is that yes this a possibility.
    01-29-2014 05:35 PM
  24. k0de's Avatar
    Just a farthing? I think they are slightly more than that. Let's have a look at market capitalisation (figures from Yahoo finance, shortly before the time of this post):
    Apple: USD 459.24 billion
    Microsoft: USD 298.91 billion
    And just for fun...
    Google: USD 375.08 billion
    Haha, don't believe everything that you read. Bill Gates alone over the years without giving any money away to charity is worth way more than that. Last year alone gates drop 30 billion to charity. And he still has another 75 billion to play with.
    Last edited by k0de; 01-30-2014 at 12:43 AM.
    01-29-2014 05:51 PM
  25. jmshub's Avatar
    As always, let's blame someone else!
    Did you read the rest of my post at all, or feel like firing off that witty retort without bothering with the details? Yes, for all of the reasons I listed, OEMs have a part to play in the negative view of Windows by the non-tech crowd. I have three Dell PCs in my house. I think they are fine PCs and I would buy another Dell if I were in the market. But out of the box, there were several trial programs that I did not want on the PC, that aren't part of Windows. Browser toolbars, stupid trial games, links to ebay, or various other websites that Dell is paid to install on the desktop. Trial versions of crummy antivirus software. I could go on. My wife's laptop included the Dell Dock, an annoying application launcher that lives permanently at the top of the screen.

    Dell is hardly the worst offender. Many people, myself included, reinstall Windows on brand new PCs to effectively remove the unwanted crap from new PCs.

    I believe the reason that Microsoft started to build hardware in the first place is because they could not rely on their hardware partners to build a decent PC running Windows 8 at the time of the launch. Part of the sea change that is the Windows 8 interface is hardware that supports it. Particularly good, multitouch enabled touchscreens. The vendors instantly started peddling Windows 8 on last year's Windows 7 cheap laptops, and people found themselves not loving the experience. At least having the opportunity to use Windows 8 on a multitouch display lets people realize how Windows 8 works, and how to efficiently use the different UIs.
    HeyCori likes this.
    01-29-2014 08:14 PM
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