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05-14-2014 03:55 AM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    What I thought was unfair was the claim that GMS was about Google trying to stop WP from running Android apps.
    Okay, now I see what you mean. GMS isn't about making it harder to run Android apps on WP. It is however very much about making it harder to fork Android, which for some reason is what was going around in my head when I wrote that. Not the same thing. I concede.
    02-13-2014 07:55 PM
  2. osoalex's Avatar
    For laggy apps, I prefer buying a Moto X.

    I hope this is not happening anytime soon.
    02-14-2014 02:31 AM
  3. Zeem Frostmaw's Avatar
    LOL at rumor mill... Not gonna happen
    02-14-2014 03:53 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Google just made an agreement with VMware to run Windows Apps on Chromebooks. Mac users run Windows apps through parallels. Linux users run Windows apps through Wine. Are all the companies in the industry pathetic?
    First, lets be clear, PCs, MACs and Linux machines run on similar hardware. So the ability to do this is a lot simpler. So from a logical stand point it makes sense. Though I think most people would prefer not to run VMware. Not sure about Chromebooks in all this.

    Devs will still develop with the WP SDK if they have the incentives. Of course Microsoft has to be selective about what apps to accept in the store, Android apps should only fill holes. Big apps used by millions of people in a daily basis should have a distinctive experience in WP. Although Apps only used in a country, in a city, retail or bank apps only used by a few thousands, an app for a school, for a few hundreds of people, those aren't economically viable in WP. So, what do you prefer an Android app or nothing?
    Other incentives could be a bigger share of the revenue for WP apps, more exposure in the store, allow piracy for Android apps.
    So MS chooses which apps come over? What if I want an app that MS hasn't chosen? What happens then? Should I stick with WP if I can't get all the apps?

    Why develop for 3% of the market? Will the apps work well on low end WP hardware? Even though you're talking interface looks it's still development time. Will developers bother? MS would have to make if fairly easy to port the app.

    HTML5 apps don't follow the WP design guidelines and are becoming more popular. As HTML5 matures more of those small apps will be developed in this tech, and these Apps are less efficient in the use of resources than Android Apps and don't follow ANY design language. At least Android apps would be consistent with other Android apps. You won't get a pure experience in WP neither in the other platforms.

    The Android Dalvik virtual machine is open source, most of the API are open source too. Microsoft has to adapt it to run on top of Windows. This require a lot of resources but is not such a big feat as some people say. If a startup like Jolla or a smaller company like BlackBerry did it, of course Microsoft can do it.

    The culmination of this strategy should be a Metro API on top of the Android SDK so developers could reuse most of their Java code although with a different UI for each platform.
    My point in all this is simple. In what way is this better than simply buying an Android phone? Why buy a WP? What am I gaining by buying a WP? What makes it at all attractive?

    The whole point of WP is that it's supposed to become cross platform with W8. Where does this fit in?

    There are lots of people who simply despise Google and Android and are on WP. Do you see them sticking with WP if this were to happen? I see WP tanking if this were to happen because the users are different compared to say BB.

    I have no doubt there will be some who will be completely happy if this were to happen but I won't be one of them. I want apps for WP, not a botch job.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 02-14-2014 at 08:10 AM.
    tgp, a5cent and BIGPADDY like this.
    02-14-2014 05:42 AM
  5. ohgood's Avatar
    I want apps for WP, not a botch job.
    sounds like the choice is simple, wait another year or three for wp, surface rt, surface pro, and the desktop to finally unit.

    or not. or maybe longer.

    I agree though about this android thing being the final nail in the wp coffin.
    02-14-2014 05:49 AM
  6. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    No thanks.
    02-14-2014 06:31 AM
  7. wapoz's Avatar
    Id most likely move back to iOS if this happened. I see no point in using an OS ( WP, BB10, Sailfish/jolla) if it needs to rely on another OS's app ecosystem. Id rather have developers that are committed to making apps that take full advantage of my devices features and design language instead of some half-assed virtualized android app.
    02-14-2014 06:37 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    There are lots of people who simply despise Google and Android and are on WP. Do you see them sticking with WP if this were to happen?
    I agree with your post for the most part, except I would question whether there are "lots of people who simply despise Google and Android and are on WP", relatively speaking. We need to remember that the users of tech forums are probably not an accurate cross section of the general public. Of course we think about that stuff, because we're geeky like that. Remember that Google's Android has 80% of the market share, and sold 3/4 billion devices in 2013.

    I know that due to the Scroogled campaigns, more people are hearing about Google's business practices. However, Android & Chromebook sales are very strong, and I wonder if Microsoft isn't actually benefiting their nemesis by advertising for them.

    Other than that, I could've written that post. Excellent points!
    dkediger likes this.
    02-14-2014 07:09 AM
  9. Jazmac's Avatar
    Great idea. This idea worked out great for Blackberry after all. NOT!
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    02-14-2014 09:03 AM
  10. thundr51's Avatar
    Ok, I've had an android tablet (asus transformer) and phone (GalaxyS) and while they are fine products I really don't see why everyone is going crazy about android apps. Seriously, I play a couple of games on them and such but honestly I don't see what the big deal is. Will someone PLEASE tell me what is this great app(s) that makes android so great? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely asking, what apps should I be using on my android devices that aren't available anywhere else? Since I just picked up a surface pro the big apps for me that I can't get anywhere but windows are Visual studio (express editions because they're free :)) and Steam. I really missed my steam library on my transformer...but there are other casual games so I'm managing.
    Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way....is android popular because it's not Microsoft? Is it because the devices running android are typically cheaper than others (MS, Apple)? What is it about android that's got everyone salivating?
    02-14-2014 09:40 AM
  11. ohgood's Avatar
    Ok, I've had an android tablet (asus transformer) and phone (GalaxyS) and while they are fine products I really don't see why everyone is going crazy about android apps. Seriously, I play a couple of games on them and such but honestly I don't see what the big deal is. Will someone PLEASE tell me what is this great app(s) that makes android so great? I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely asking, what apps should I be using on my android devices that aren't available anywhere else? Since I just picked up a surface pro the big apps for me that I can't get anywhere but windows are Visual studio (express editions because they're free :)) and Steam. I really missed my steam library on my transformer...but there are other casual games so I'm managing.
    Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way....is android popular because it's not Microsoft? Is it because the devices running android are typically cheaper than others (MS, Apple)? What is it about android that's got everyone salivating?
    it's because of the sudden and huge availability of every type of application (and twenty variations from twenty different developers) you ever imagined.

    I could care less about the ui of all the applications matching the same shade of brown/orange throughout.


    more specific:
    geocaching online
    " offline
    navigation online/socially
    navigation offline
    tracking
    trip planning on/off line
    dlna apps
    NFC apps
    apps to track flights in real time
    twenty different kinds of social media


    and everything that is not on wp platform right now
    02-14-2014 10:03 AM
  12. thundr51's Avatar
    more specific:
    geocaching online -- looked this up, looks like it's basically treasure hunting?
    " offline
    navigation online/socially -- I have my old 820 that I gave to my Mom in law to use as a GPS...and it's not activated...same thing?
    navigation offline
    tracking
    trip planning on/off line -- I don't take that many trips a year but when i'm looking for hotels/cars I just hit the websites..
    dlna apps -- Ok, I still use my ps3/xbox music...guess I need to get with it.
    NFC apps -- I need to try some of these, but doesn't seem like It would be that great.
    apps to track flights in real time -- I can see why this would be important if I was constantly travelling...or picking up family members flying in out.
    twenty different kinds of social media -- Only using twitter...
    and everything that is not on wp platform right now
    Good points, I need to get out more I guess.
    02-14-2014 10:21 AM
  13. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Not sure if i replied but...
    I'd rather Microsoft close down windows phone altogether before bring Android to Windows Phone.
    It's bad enough Nokia has that phone coming out and it is nice looking but it has ANdroid....just feels meh to me.

    Furthermore, if Microsoft feels the need to bring android to Windows phone, that is basically defeat to me and saying they don't have enough faith in the OS and that means I'll have no faith
    and i will definitely then switch to an IPHONE.
    02-14-2014 10:47 AM
  14. rodan01's Avatar
    First, lets be clear, PCs, MACs and Linux machines run on similar hardware. So the ability to do this is a lot simpler. So from a logical stand point it makes sense. Though I think most people would prefer not to run VMware. Not sure about Chromebooks in all this.
    Phones and tablets run in similar hardware too, OEMs will use the same hardware for Android and Windows.

    So MS chooses which apps come over? What if I want an app that MS hasn't chosen? What happens then? Should I stick with WP if I can't get all the apps?

    Why develop for 3% of the market? Will the apps work well on low end WP hardware? Even though you're talking interface looks it's still development time. Will developers bother? MS would have to make if fairly easy to port the app.
    What do you do now if the app that you want is not in WP?!
    3% of market share is enough for big apps, but as you can see in your phone is not enough for apps that aim to a smaller share of the user base. That's why we need Android apps to fill the holes.
    Android apps will improve their performance with ahead of time compilation, supposedly Kit Kat is implementing this but I don't know how many apps are included since launch. The other big impact in performance is caused by apps misbehaving with background tasks. Microsoft should impose more strict rules in the windows store, as Amazon does.

    My point in all this is simple. In what way is this better than simply buying an Android phone? Why buy a WP? What am I gaining by buying a WP? What makes it at all attractive?

    The whole point of WP is that it's supposed to become cross platform with W8. Where does this fit in?

    There are lots of people who simply despise Google and Android and are on WP. Do you see them sticking with WP if this were to happen? I see WP tanking if this were to happen because the users are different compared to say BB.

    I have no doubt there will be some who will be completely happy if this were to happen but I won't be one of them. I want apps for WP, not a botch job.
    I buy Windows devices because I love the UI, the tiles, Microsoft services, integration with Windows 8 and XBOX, security, productivity. The top apps, where the user spend 70%-80% of their time, should be native with a distinctive user interface, but Microsoft can't achieve the same with small apps. Of course Android and HTML5 apps hurt the user experience compared with native apps. But most people would chose these alternatives rather than NOTHING. So the key is allowing only Android apps that aren't economically viable in the platform.

    Android is becoming a standard used in a myriad of compatible platforms (Android forks, Jolla, BlackBerry, etc.). Probably in a couple of years more than 50% of the devices shipped with an Android runtime won't use Google services. Microsoft could adopt this massive platform and its millions of devs to increase the reach of Windows and their services.
    Maybe the unification of WP, Windows and XBOX will be enough to reach the critical mass for the platform, but if It's not enough then the alternative strategies should be ready. That's the motivation behind the Normandy device and the adoption of the Android runtime on Windows.
    People have to be realistic and understand that this platform won't survive with a 3% of market share, Microsoft is playing their last Windows cards this year, if the platform doesn't take off then 2015 will be robotic green in Microsoft.
    02-14-2014 11:18 AM
  15. Genghis7777's Avatar
    That's the thing, innit? MS does not want or need you and me and everyone else on WP right now. They are targeting those tens of millions of users who don't use WP or rejected it because it didn't have [INSERT TRENDY APP HERE] or similar reasons. These guys are out there in their millions, and they are who MSFT want on their platform.



    Adopting Android apps would be seen as a betrayal by developers on the same scale as their decision not to provide an upgrade path for WP7 users.



    Sent from my Lumia 520 using Tapatalk
    02-14-2014 11:44 AM
  16. Genghis7777's Avatar
    I'm wondering if Google is thinking about what can be done to prevent or make it as difficult as possible to port Android apps over to WP.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

    if I was them, I would do the opposite as it would further signal Android 's ascendancy, a foot on the throat of one's enemy, so to speak.





    Sent from my Lumia 520 using Tapatalk
    02-14-2014 11:52 AM
  17. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Adopting Android apps would be seen as a betrayal by developers on the same scale as their decision not to provide an upgrade path for WP7 users.
    That worked out pretty well, didn't it? Sales of WP8 devices are much better than they were for WP7 devices.
    02-14-2014 12:47 PM
  18. Genghis7777's Avatar
    Android is becoming a standard used in a myriad of compatible platforms (Android forks, Jolla, BlackBerry, etc.). Probably in a couple of years more than 50% of the devices shipped with an Android runtime won't use Google services. Microsoft could adopt this massive platform and its millions of devs to increase the reach of Windows and their services.
    People have to be realistic and understand that this platform won't survive with a 3% of market share,.

    There are a couple of insightful articles on Ars Technica about Google's Android strategy. Increasingly Android phone manufacturers and devs will be forced to use their services or replicate them. Of course they too will be writing proprietary code to build their own competitive advantage.

    Will Google approve or continue to approve apps for their store who don't fundamentally follow their philosophy?

    Look what they did after seeing Samsung's design ideas.


    Sent from my Lumia 520 using Tapatalk
    02-14-2014 05:18 PM
  19. Jazmac's Avatar
    Not sure if i replied but...
    I'd rather Microsoft close down windows phone altogether before bring Android to Windows Phone.
    It's bad enough Nokia has that phone coming out and it is nice looking but it has ANdroid....just feels meh to me.

    Furthermore, if Microsoft feels the need to bring android to Windows phone, that is basically defeat to me and saying they don't have enough faith in the OS and that means I'll have no faith
    and i will definitely then switch to an IPHONE.
    Agreed. If they moved to bring in android to "save" WP, what was all my work for? Why did I or WE fight to defend this platform for so long only to be sold off to the likes of google? For me, I most likely would not stay. Leave and never return to WP or this website. And I'll be taking my entire family out with me.
    02-14-2014 09:04 PM
  20. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Adopting Android apps would be seen as a betrayal by developers on the same scale as their decision not to provide an upgrade path for WP7 users.



    Sent from my Lumia 520 using Tapatalk
    Do you think MSFT cares? They are in business to make money. If they think doing this Android monstrosity will bring in money and get more people to buy WP, they will do it. End of story.
    02-14-2014 11:07 PM
  21. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Agreed. If they moved to bring in android to "save" WP, what was all my work for? Why did I or WE fight to defend this platform for so long only to be sold off to the likes of google? For me, I most likely would not stay. Leave and never return to WP or this website. And I'll be taking my entire family out with me.
    You seem to have been in a kind of Wonderland wherein corporations cared about the fact that we defended and fought for a platform. The point of a corporation is to make a profit. WP is not profitable. Allowing Android APKs to be easily ported or virtualised may increase WP sales, and if this is true, MSFT will go ahead and they do it. They don't care about us.
    02-14-2014 11:09 PM
  22. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Agreed. If they moved to bring in android to "save" WP, what was all my work for? Why did I or WE fight to defend this platform for so long only to be sold off to the likes of google? For me, I most likely would not stay. Leave and never return to WP or this website. And I'll be taking my entire family out with me.
    Same :)
    I"ll still be within the family though...I'd just migrate over to imore :D

    From what i understand, how Blackberry does it with android is a shoddy experience...average at best and not all the apps work and i've tried something similar to bluestacks and the experience was subpar....Idk how they would do this and make the experience feel well-enough(Again, why would anyone switch to a windows phone that features Android vs getting a specifically made Android phone, is beyond me lol).

    Given that people can't seem to handle metro W8 and desktop w8 and they are the SAME OS...I am not sure how people will easily handle 2 entirely different apps/types of OS running together.

    But like i said, MOST people who use android use it for the customization, ease of access to root the OS AND THE apps are a 3rd reason(the first two reasons are why diehard fans will go to Android despite the fact Apple does usually have better apps and gets apps first before android sometimes)...so I can't see them switching to a Windows phone with some android elements.

    I wouldn't switch to an Android phone that happened to have some Windows Phone/Windows 8 element.

    Furthermore...New customers? Ehhh, that's a tough one....Simply because i think they'd go for cheap market phones such as Lumia 520/521, Nokia X, Moto G or other low end devices such as that.
    Again not a phone with 2 different OS and app types.
    02-15-2014 03:20 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    They don't care about us.
    I think that is a bit extreme. Based on the reactions in this thread, it is clear that many of us would leave WP if MS made such a move. They definitely do care about that. Obviously, the BB and WP crowds are very different folk in this regard. Either way, MS would do a lot of market research to determine what the overall effect would be, before actually going forward.

    IMHO the main problem with this, is that it is yet another example of MS focusing on WP's weaknesses. Instead of going to these extremes to minimize a weakness, they should be going to extremes to maximize a few strengths. Until they've done that, steps like this are premature.
    dkediger and N_LaRUE like this.
    02-15-2014 04:53 AM
  24. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    I think that is a bit extreme. Based on the reactions in this thread, it is clear that many of us would leave WP if MS made such a move. They definitely do care about that. Obviously, the BB and WP crowds are very different folk in this regard. Either way, MS would do a lot of market research to determine what the overall effect would be, before actually going forward.

    IMHO the main problem with this, is that it is yet another example of MS focusing on WP's weaknesses. Instead of going to these extremes to minimize a weakness, they should be going to extremes to maximize a few strengths. Until they've done that, steps like this are premature.
    How many is 'many'? Even if a proportion as large as 10% of all current users were to take such a step, and MSFT thought they could get 11% more in their place, they would go ahead with this option. The remaining 90% would be overjoyed that they finally had access to Snapchat or Flappy Candy or whatever the current hotness is, thereby recommending it to their acquaintances and so increasing WP sales.

    With regard to your second point, it is debatable, but in my opinion people make the decisions to NOT buy devices based on what they cannot do. Example:

    Average customer: WP has live tiles, this Lumia 1020 has a great camera, I like the idea of these Hub things.

    MS Store guy: Great, so if you come over here I'll ring up your purchase

    Average customer: But wait, what's that? No Candy Crush? DO NOT WANT. I love the phone but all my friends play Candy Crush. I'm just going to go get the new iPhone now"

    See what I mean? There are a hundred things about WP that would appeal to the average customer (the Nokia hardware mainly, for me), but one thing, just one small tiny thing and that's a lost sale (for me, this was the lack of an app like Tripit Pro, or my corporate travel agency's app (CWT ToGo)) can prevent people from adopting the platform. This is why I believe MS is doing the right thing, if these rumours are true.
    02-15-2014 05:54 AM
  25. shaurya negi's Avatar
    Even if it comes,will it be smooth in our hardware? Except Lumia 1520 all processors are of previous generation with only a gigabyte of ram. It will be buggy right? It even lags in a phone like s4 sometimes.
    02-15-2014 07:56 AM
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