05-14-2014 03:55 AM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    I think that is a bit extreme. Based on the reactions in this thread, it is clear that many of us would leave WP if MS made such a move. They definitely do care about that. Obviously, the BB and WP crowds are very different folk in this regard. Either way, MS would do a lot of market research to determine what the overall effect would be, before actually going forward.
    I believe Markham Ranja is correct; Microsoft doesn't care about us. For the most part, a company striving for the goodwill of their customers does it for the sake of having happy customers so these customers continue to give the business their money. So Microsoft cares in the sense of retaining customers and gaining new ones, but it's not like they do it just to be nice. They'll take whichever path they feel ultimately brings in the most profit.

    In a sense, you're both correct!
    02-15-2014 08:06 AM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    I believe Markham Ranja is correct; Microsoft doesn't care about us. For the most part, a company striving for the goodwill of their customers does it for the sake of having happy customers so these customers continue to give the business their money.
    If anyone here is so hopelessly romantic as to associate the word "care" with personal affection, I'd say they are insane. I hope it is obvious that "care", in this context, relates to something else entirely, if for no other reason, than the realization that companies are legal constructs and not sentient and emotional beings. This feels more like arguing for the sake of arguing, rather than making a worthwhile point.

    The people who work at MS do care however. Not about us individually, but as a group. Their jobs depend on us liking their products and services. For a lot of these folks, it's also a matter of pride, and like all of us, they too hope we like the things they spend many hours of their lives working on. At the end of the day though, their job is to appeal to as many people as possible, and if they feel they must alienate a minority to please a majority, they will. That's just business. Just like with everything else, nobody can make everyone happy all of the time.

    Hopefully we have no more misconceptions here in regard to what "care" means.
    02-15-2014 10:32 AM
  3. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I believe Markham Ranja is correct; Microsoft doesn't care about us. For the most part, a company striving for the goodwill of their customers does it for the sake of having happy customers so these customers continue to give the business their money. So Microsoft cares in the sense of retaining customers and gaining new ones, but it's not like they do it just to be nice. They'll take whichever path they feel ultimately brings in the most profit.

    In a sense, you're both correct!
    Microsoft is a company, of course they don't care. Caring is what living beings do.
    tgp likes this.
    02-15-2014 11:55 AM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    How many is 'many'? Even if a proportion as large as 10% of all current users were to take such a step, and MSFT thought they could get 11% more in their place, they would go ahead with this option.
    Absolutely agree. That is why I said a considerable amount of market research would be invested towards determining what the trade-offs are. Only if that is expected to result in a net positive, would MS go forward. Given an expected net positive however, they would go forward, even if that meant loosing 99% of their current customers. I don't think we disagree on this.

    Average customer: But wait, what's that? No Candy Crush? DO NOT WANT. I love the phone but all my friends play Candy Crush. I'm just going to go get the new iPhone now".
    I see what you mean. To a degree you are contradicting yourself however. Your point is that what a device cannot do, will more strongly influence consumers to reject a device, than what a device can do, has the ability to attract consumers. Yet at the same time, in your example, it was the iPhone's ability to play Candy Crush that won the day. It was something the iPhone could do, that made the sale.

    We might be describing the same coin, but just from opposite sides. It might be worth considering this from another angle however. Could it be, that it wasn't necessarily the lack of Candy Crush that lost this sale, but rather that the slightly better camera and Live Tiles weren't desirable enough to sacrifice Candy Crush over? I suspect that this is closer to how consumer psychology works. You need to give consumers something to get excited over. While a slightly better camera and Live Tiles are nice, both lack the ability to excite, whereas the idea of playing Candy Crush with friends can do that. WP would have had to offer something else that excites the consumer even more, and Candy Crush would likely have been sacrificed. That is what I suspect anyway.
    02-15-2014 12:46 PM
  5. IlkkaV's Avatar
    Bringing Android app support to the platform would kill most developer incentive for developing native WP apps. That in turn would more or less mark the death of the platform. At least I wouldn't see any point in sticking with WP when even MS has given up. I'd go back to iOS full time. If I wanted to run Android apps, I'd buy an Android device.
    k0de, msxbox and wapoz like this.
    02-15-2014 02:31 PM
  6. k0de's Avatar
    Bringing Android app support to the platform would kill most developer incentive for developing native WP apps. That in turn would more or less mark the death of the platform. At least I wouldn't see any point in sticking with WP when even MS has given up. I'd go back to iOS full time. If I wanted to run Android apps, I'd buy an Android device.
    .

    That's exactly how I feel. I believe in MSFT software. I believe that they can do it better than anyone in the business. That's why I bought a Window Phone in the first place. Android apps on the platform will just tell me that MSFT has giving up and Android has won.
    02-15-2014 02:40 PM
  7. msxbox's Avatar
    I think they would be settling for something like that too early, There is still a mass of untapped potential for Windows Phone and I say they should exploit that to the max before considering running android apps on the OS, if you haven't voted yet here is the link

    We do NOT want Android apps on WP – Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone
    cyborg4, IlkkaV and k0de like this.
    02-16-2014 02:17 PM
  8. cyborg4's Avatar
    Microsoft, DO NOT ADD ANDROID APPS TO WP. How much of a vote of no-confidence is that, having to use your competitor's apps? No.
    msxbox likes this.
    02-16-2014 02:19 PM
  9. k0de's Avatar
    I think they would be settling for something like that too early, There is still a mass of untapped potential for Windows Phone and I say they should exploit that to the max before considering running android apps on the OS, if you haven't voted yet here is the link

    We do NOT want Android apps on WP – Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone
    Thanks I just placed (3) votes.
    02-16-2014 04:28 PM
  10. msxbox's Avatar
    same here nice one k0de i wanted to add more than three myself but 3 is the max, we need that number to rise if we want Microsoft to take note..
    k0de likes this.
    02-16-2014 06:59 PM
  11. k0de's Avatar
    same here nice one k0de i wanted to add more than three myself but 3 is the max, we need that number to rise if we want Microsoft to take note..
    Ur welcome! Yes we need more people from these forums to vote there. Everyone follow the link and place your votes to stop Android apps from landing on WP. Thanks for the link msxbox.
    02-16-2014 08:38 PM
  12. rodan01's Avatar
    Bringing Android app support to the platform would kill most developer incentive for developing native WP apps. That in turn would more or less mark the death of the platform. At least I wouldn't see any point in sticking with WP when even MS has given up. I'd go back to iOS full time. If I wanted to run Android apps, I'd buy an Android device.
    Why do developers adopt WP? Because they want to make money selling their apps in the store, or with in app purchases, or showing ads. They want access to the WP user base that is close to 50 million people worldwide.

    If WP could run Android apps, developers would have a path with lower costs to reach that mass of users, but also with lower revenues. The user experience of the Android apps in WP is inferior, that means less usage and less revenue. So, both variables are reduced and produce mixed results for different developers. Some developers would benefit reusing their Android app, for other developers is a bad strategy because the loss of revenues is bigger than the cost savings.

    Let's classify developers in three groups:
    1)Developers for whom the cost of a native WP app is much higher than the revenues they could get from the store. So, those apps won't come to WP any time soon. The Android strategy is a WIN-WIN situation. Devs earn money reusing their Android app, and wp users have access to apps that would be impossible to get in native form.

    2)Developers that don't make much money with their wp app, or developers that are planning a WP app which is just becoming profitable with the growth of the user base. For them the cost of development is relatively important, the savings of reusing the Android app could be higher than the loss of revenue of an inferior user experience. So, some developers would remove the native wp app (probably no a high quality app) and would submit an Android app. Some developers planning or in the firsts stages of development of a native app would cancel their projects to submit an Android apps. This is the big fear of some WP fans.

    3)Developers that get good revenues from their native wp apps, for them the cost of development is less relevant and the loss of revenue caused a low quality app is bigger, so they would continue with native apps.

    The bottom line is not bad:
    -The Android strategy would give us access to several thousands small apps that aren't economically viable in WP.
    -We would lose some native apps from the store (probably low quality apps anyways, the android apps could be even better) and some native apps in early stage of development would be canceled in favor of Android apps.
    -Nothing change for the developers of top apps, they would continue with their native development.

    But the situation can be improved if:
    -Microsoft rejects any Android app coming from the group 3, top apps. Some devs or companies could chose a wrong strategy due to lack of knowledge, bad management, or an irrational intention to simplify things. The Windows store has to be selective.
    -Microsoft has to subsidize developers of the group 2 to promote native development. This subsidy could be a bigger share of the revenue from the store, technical assistance, money payments, more exposure in the store.
    -Microsoft has to increase the adoption of WP, because as the user base grows more developers move from the group 2 to the group 3, and the group 3 is not interested in submitting an Android app.

    It's interesting that the Android strategy is more beneficial and less risky as the wp user base grows.

    Lets say that WP reach a 10% of market share of the sales, It would be needed a couple of years to reach a 10% of market share of user base (which is the important variable for devs). Even with a 10% of the user base there are several thousand of apps that aren't economically viable in that level so Android apps could help to fill the holes. And with 10% of the user base there is less risk of destroying the platform accepting Android apps, because the group 3 is bigger and the users are guaranteed to spend a bigger percentage of their time with native apps, 80%-90% of the time?.

    The ideal scenario would be to start working today in the implementation of the Android SDK to be released with Windows 9, and reach 10% of market share before that thanks to the improvements of the platform and an really aggressive price strategy.
    Last edited by rodan01; 02-16-2014 at 10:51 PM.
    k0de and ohgood like this.
    02-16-2014 10:34 PM
  13. irtiza_fayaz's Avatar
    Yeah. Walk the same path BB went. And vanish after a year or two. Like BB did.
    IlkkaV and msxbox like this.
    02-16-2014 11:27 PM
  14. Mark section's Avatar
    Yes,we have a living(going to be dead example) bb10.it runs android app. So why is it dying??

    1-No native app support- developer just don't get any more incentive from making native apps. As they would have competitor from a higher developed platforms android.

    2- lack of advertisement- Ok you cant advertise that wp can run android app. Most people will never know that it runs android apps or not. Just look at bb10. After getting native app market killed they are left with ZERO APPS to install. A common man will go to store to find Zero apps.

    3-android apps are not even optimized for themselves forget about getting optimization for wp devices

    4-encourage piracy- SIDE LOADING cracked file. Isn't it piracy? Ms should be against it.

    5-google problem- how long will google keep quit to not sue ms or prevent apps to run on WP

    Sent from my MIND
    msxbox and k0de like this.
    02-17-2014 12:33 AM
  15. anony_mouse's Avatar
    same here nice one k0de i wanted to add more than three myself but 3 is the max, we need that number to rise if we want Microsoft to take note..
    Doesn't multiple voting make this rather useless?
    02-17-2014 02:51 AM
  16. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Ur welcome! Yes we need more people from these forums to vote there. Everyone follow the link and place your votes to stop Android apps from landing on WP. Thanks for the link msxbox.
    Where can people who want Android apps on WP vote? I don't think it's a 'vote' when there's only one answer - it's a petition. It tells us nothing about the balance of opinion.
    ohgood likes this.
    02-17-2014 02:52 AM
  17. maclancer's Avatar
    Where can people who want Android apps on WP vote? I don't think it's a 'vote' when there's only one answer - it's a petition. It tells us nothing about the balance of opinion.
    I don't think it will work, to me there is only one answer... You want Android apps? Buy an Android phone or Sell your WP to buy it.
    msxbox and k0de like this.
    02-17-2014 03:15 AM
  18. msxbox's Avatar
    Doesn't multiple voting make this rather useless?
    That is not the case at all, The more votes you put in personally the more seriously they see you taking the issue hence the name uservoice its not a head count (he who shouts the loudest gets heard)...also if you look at some of the topics on the site with the really high votes you will see that some of them ideas we have now and some are being added to windows phone 8.1 Microsoft do listen to their customers but this issue is a challenging one but i hope they will protect the WP platform whatever the outcome. WP is an awesome platform...
    Last edited by msxbox; 02-17-2014 at 04:29 AM.
    k0de likes this.
    02-17-2014 04:14 AM
  19. msxbox's Avatar
    Where can people who want Android apps on WP vote? I don't think it's a 'vote' when there's only one answer - it's a petition. It tells us nothing about the balance of opinion.
    on the same site I linked above there are other topics you can vote for also you can create your own
    02-17-2014 04:17 AM
  20. anony_mouse's Avatar
    That is not the case at all, The more votes you put in personally the more seriously they see you taking the issue hence the name uservoice its not a head count...
    I'm afraid that's not how companies see this. People who vote many times appear to be obsessive, and thus more easily ignored. Also, please don't call this a 'vote'. It is not. It is a 'petition'.

    EDIT: I saw that the site actually allows users to vote '1', '2' or '3' times, so I take back my comment above.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 02-17-2014 at 04:41 AM.
    k0de likes this.
    02-17-2014 04:31 AM
  21. anony_mouse's Avatar
    on the same site I linked above there are other topics you can vote for also you can create your own
    Please also link to a 'pro-Android apps' petition. The results of your petition will then appear more balanced.
    ohgood likes this.
    02-17-2014 04:31 AM
  22. msxbox's Avatar
    Please also link to a 'pro-Android apps' petition. The results of your petition will then appear more balanced.
    allow all android apps! €“ Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone

    http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/fo...-android-app-i

    http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/fo...n-the-appstore

    there are multiple topics to vote on for both DO NOT Allow android apps on WP and allow android apps :)
    Last edited by msxbox; 02-17-2014 at 04:47 AM.
    k0de and anony_mouse like this.
    02-17-2014 04:35 AM
  23. ohgood's Avatar
    Please also link to a 'pro-Android apps' petition. The results of your petition will then appear more balanced.
    good points are bring made here.

    there was another about how android developers could actually profit from wp users, instead of only seeing them as 4% market share. that's another good point.
    02-17-2014 04:39 AM
  24. msxbox's Avatar
    I'm afraid that's not how companies see this. People who vote many times appear to be obsessive, and thus more easily ignored. Also, please don't call this a 'vote'. It is not. It is a 'petition'.
    not true, they would not have the feature of multiple votes if that were the case...take a proper look at the site you have a total of 20 votes but the maximum for one topic is 3 votes and you don't get your votes back until the topic is finished, so it means you choose the topics you vote on wisely...btw "appear to be" is correct :)
    02-17-2014 04:43 AM
  25. anony_mouse's Avatar
    not true, they would not have the feature of multiple votes if that were the case...take a proper look at the site you have a total of 20 votes but the maximum for one topic is 3 votes and you don't get your votes back until the topic is finished, so it means you choose the topics you vote on wisely...btw "appear to be" is correct :)
    Indeed - I edited my original post once I'd looked more carefully at the site.
    Currently, the petition has 211 'votes'. If we assume an average of 2 'votes' per person, this means 105.5 people support it (assuming no multiple 'voting').
    02-17-2014 04:50 AM
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