05-14-2014 03:55 AM
195 ... 678
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  1. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    i dont understand why u need more evidence for MSFT products being better, after living in a world built up on Windows.
    there are other OSs and products competing with MSFT products, but cant replace it fully.
    that's what it meant.
    i remember a comment read long ago (or it might be a fake argument posing someone else)
    it was like Google arguing MSFT.
    Google is saying i am dominating the Internet, u r nowhere and u will be nowhere in the future.
    Microsoft's Reply was, "cool down buddy. the waves u r riding on are created by me. without me, there would not have been internet, there will be 90% less revenue to you, and u will be lost, where google cannot find u."
    i think its true, as 80-90 % of Non-windows users, use other OSs, because it's free.
    Same thing is true with Android. the main reason android grown this much, is because its free. (another reason is wrong policies of Symbian foundation, which died own death).
    What nonsense. Then that would mean MSFT is building on the work done by Apple, with the Mac II (world's first popular GUI) which in itself came out of Engelbart's work at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (the entire concept of a WIMP graphical interface with icons and a pointing device came from them). The entire electronic revolution came about with Shockley's invention of the transistor at Bell Labs. If you go back even further, look at Turing's work which was paid for by the British government in efforts to break the Axis Powers' encryption. Therefore, everything that happens with technology today is thanks to Adolf Hitler.
    02-24-2014 07:42 AM
  2. anony_mouse's Avatar
    i dont understand why u need more evidence for MSFT products being better, after living in a world built up on Windows.
    I wasn't asking for evidence that Microsoft's products are "better". That is largely a matter of opinion. I was asking for evidence to support the claim (make by k0de, if I remember correctly), that "MSFT products are and will always be the best that computing can offer." (my emphasis). Unless Ms/Mr k0de has a time machine, I'm not sure how she/he can make that claim, so I'm curious to know what the foundation for it is.
    k0de likes this.
    02-24-2014 09:41 AM
  3. k0de's Avatar
    I wasn't asking for evidence that Microsoft's products are "better". That is largely a matter of opinion. I was asking for evidence to support the claim (make by k0de, if I remember correctly), that "MSFT products are and will always be the best that computing can offer." (my emphasis). Unless Ms/Mr k0de has a time machine, I'm not sure how she/he can make that claim, so I'm curious to know what the foundation for it is.
    On the time machine now making my way back to you from the year 3014, Lol.

    Absolutely I agree with you 100%. It is a matter of opinion. And yes that is exactly how I feel.
    anony_mouse likes this.
    02-24-2014 06:29 PM
  4. bilzkh's Avatar
    A thought... what if this plan only applied to games on Android? From what I understand, a lot of the 'fad apps' happen to be games such as Candy Crush. What if Microsoft focused this project to making it easy for developers to push the latest games to Windows Phone with little effort and cost?
    02-24-2014 07:48 PM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    A thought... what if this plan only applied to games on Android? From what I understand, a lot of the 'fad apps' happen to be games such as Candy Crush. What if Microsoft focused this project to making it easy for developers to push the latest games to Windows Phone with little effort and cost?
    Most games are developed using a cross platform game engine, like Unity. That is how the same game ends up running on both iOS and Android. As a result, making a Unity based version for WP isn't that big of a deal, so this would really only be helpful for games that don't use such an engine. I don't know how big that subset is, but my guess is it is very small...

    Certainly possible, I just doubt that is actually of much help...
    02-24-2014 11:38 PM
  6. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Most games are developed using a cross platform game engine, like Unity. That is how the same game ends up running on both iOS and Android. As a result, making a Unity based version for WP isn't that big of a deal, so this would really only be helpful for games that don't use such an engine. I don't know how big that subset is, but my guess is it is very small...

    Certainly possible, I just doubt that is actually of much help...
    That is a very good point. If important Unity games are not appearing on WP, Microsoft need to look at why that is. I guess there is still effort needed to test and optimise the game for WP, and perhaps some porting if iOS/Android specific APIs are used (I assume Unity offers some access to these), but it should already be relatively small.
    02-25-2014 02:46 AM
  7. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Most games are developed using a cross platform game engine, like Unity. That is how the same game ends up running on both iOS and Android. As a result, making a Unity based version for WP isn't that big of a deal, so this would really only be helpful for games that don't use such an engine. I don't know how big that subset is, but my guess is it is very small...

    Certainly possible, I just doubt that is actually of much help...
    It is a very big deal because iOS and Android use OpenGL ES for their 3D rendering, which is a common and well-understood framework among mobile game developers. However, with WP, MS decided to use DirectX 11, for reasons only known to Belfiore. For this reason, porting games from iOS or Android to WP is rather difficult. Also, DX11 is the same framework used by major AAA game studios to develop their Windows games, so most of the people with this skill are involved in developing full-fledged desktop games. There is little talent left over for WP.

    This is why Unity does not support WP as yet.
    anony_mouse likes this.
    02-25-2014 04:12 AM
  8. anony_mouse's Avatar
    It is a very big deal because iOS and Android use OpenGL ES for their 3D rendering, which is a common and well-understood framework among mobile game developers. However, with WP, MS decided to use DirectX 11, for reasons only known to Belfiore. For this reason, porting games from iOS or Android to WP is rather difficult. Also, DX11 is the same framework used by major AAA game studios to develop their Windows games, so most of the people with this skill are involved in developing full-fledged desktop games. There is little talent left over for WP.

    This is why Unity does not support WP as yet.
    Thanks - that's a useful clarification. I guess it would take a lot of effort for Microsoft to add OpenGL ES support to WP, even though I assume the underlying hardware can support it?
    02-25-2014 04:30 AM
  9. SnailUK's Avatar
    It is a very big deal because iOS and Android use OpenGL ES for their 3D rendering, which is a common and well-understood framework among mobile game developers. However, with WP, MS decided to use DirectX 11, for reasons only known to Belfiore. For this reason, porting games from iOS or Android to WP is rather difficult. Also, DX11 is the same framework used by major AAA game studios to develop their Windows games, so most of the people with this skill are involved in developing full-fledged desktop games. There is little talent left over for WP.

    This is why Unity does not support WP as yet.
    But surely you've hit the nail on the head.

    Microsoft's vision has always been a multi platform view. They don't just think phone, they think WP/WinRT/Win/Xbox. OpenGL might be an easier option for WP/WinRT, but how does that help Win/Xbox?

    Developers be seeing the opportunities of all the millions of other platforms that are gagging for most of the same content.

    Amusingly, Unity already supports WP, so even that isn't an excuse!

    Unity - Windows add-on
    02-25-2014 04:43 AM
  10. anony_mouse's Avatar
    But surely you've hit the nail on the head.

    Microsoft's vision has always been a multi platform view. They don't just think phone, they think WP/WinRT/Win/Xbox. OpenGL might be an easier option for WP/WinRT, but how does that help Win/Xbox?

    Developers be seeing the opportunities of all the millions of other platforms that are gagging for most of the same content.

    Amusingly, Unity already supports WP, so even that isn't an excuse!

    Unity - Windows add-on
    As I've said here before, tying all their products together could be either a blessing or a curse for Microsoft. It applies in so many ways. In this instance, which is more beneficial - making it easy for developers to write code that works on Microsoft's mobiles, desktops, games consoles, etc; or that works on several mobile platforms? Note of course that many APIs are currently different between WP, WinRT and Windows 8. Given the current situation, I suspect commonality with other mobile platforms would be more valuable than commonality with other Microsoft products.

    I can't comment on Unity, apart from pointing to this page - http://unity3d.com/pages/windows/porting . See the quotes at the bottom. One developer claims to have ported their app to WP and Win 8 in less than one day. Can anyone comment on whether Unity apps are typically released on WP? If they are not, it would be interesting to know why, as the reasons are presumably not technical.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 02-25-2014 at 06:49 AM.
    02-25-2014 06:20 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    It is a very big deal because iOS and Android use OpenGL ES for their 3D rendering, which is a common and well-understood framework among mobile game developers. However, with WP, MS decided to use DirectX 11, for reasons only known to Belfiore.
    I think you should leave explaining such things to the people who have actually used it.

    First, if you want to get technical, then you should be referring to Direct3D, not DirectX. Second, the whole point of Unity is to provide a cross-platform framework for building games. That means one of Unity's most important jobs is to abstract away platform specific technologies, of which Direct3D and OpenGL are the two most important examples. The rendering backend completely encapsulates both, meaning there typically aren't any direct calls to Direct3D or OpenGL in a Unity based game. Calls made to the Unity renderer are mapped to whatever the platform supports.

    Admittedly, Unity doesn't abstract away all the differences. For example, in-app purchases are one feature developers must still port manually. There are more. However, the "huge" problem you've identified is exactly what Unity solves, as I initially said it did.

    This is why Unity does not support WP as yet.
    Then you'd better tell that to those developing Unity. They claim WP8 support all over their website. Strangely, they also have a list of Windows Store and Windows Phone games that were made with Unity. And finally, I've used it myself...

    But surely you've hit the nail on the head.
    The information was incorrect. See above.

    Thanks - that's a useful clarification.
    It was the opposite of a clarification. See above.
    N_LaRUE and IlkkaV like this.
    02-25-2014 07:24 AM
  12. rodan01's Avatar
    So, Microsoft is happy with the Nokia X, they supported the project, even though the Windows team of course is not particularly happy about it.
    Microsoft will be the proud owner of the Nokia X app store, where 75% of the Android apps just work without modification, and most of the other 25% can be ported with 8 hours of work using Nokia X APIs. That's a lot of Apps, knowledge about Android, and relationships with developers.
    If the project is successful, they will add APIs so apps can take advantage of the live tiles in the Nokia X, XBOX integration for games, allow developers to adapt their Android Apps and integrate them with other Microsoft services and devices.

    Isn't the next logical step the implementation of the Android SDK in WP to give access to WP users to hundreds of thousands of Apps in the Nokia X store?
    02-25-2014 07:27 AM
  13. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Well, we have to wait and see how many apps Nokia get in their shop. How many apps are there in a typical store on an existing non-Google approved phone?
    02-25-2014 07:50 AM
  14. HeyCori's Avatar
    02-25-2014 10:44 AM
  15. rodan01's Avatar
    Yandex is close to 100.000, Amazon roughly 175.000. But Yandex is mostly for Russia, and the Amazon appstore is primarily for the Kindle Fire. Probably MS could do better, but only if the phone is successful. At first the Nokia X store will link to these other stores if It doesn't have an app.
    02-25-2014 10:57 AM
  16. cckgz4's Avatar
    This is no different than blackberry, and I didn't like that either
    02-25-2014 03:29 PM
  17. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Interesting link - but it misses out the most important statistic. What proportion of the Unity apps available on Android and iOS have been ported to WP? 99%? 50%? 1%? As they don't mention it, I assume it's closer to the latter than the former.
    02-25-2014 03:52 PM
  18. bilzkh's Avatar
    You know... I love the idea of cross-platform commonality between WP/Windows/RT/Xbox, but as of yet it hasn't come to fruition. The concept is fantastic, but the reality of the market doesn't to register with the thought, not yet anyways. I think it'd be best if WP/Windows/RT follow the path of other mobile platforms, e.g. OpenGL. I'd much rather see a healthy portfolio of the latest and in-demand games on Windows Phone and Tablet than to hold out for a Spartan Assault every blue moon.
    msxbox likes this.
    02-25-2014 11:44 PM
  19. msxbox's Avatar
    03-31-2014 09:11 AM
  20. buddler's Avatar
    Are there meanwhile apps for dlna (especially for Samsung TVs, without having a Samsung phone)?

    The other categories like tracking, navigation (online/offline) and geocaching are populated in the store, so should work now.
    05-14-2014 03:55 AM
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