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05-14-2014 03:55 AM
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  1. k0de's Avatar
    In a few months since switching over to MSFT. I have spent hundreds. Perhaps thousands in support to the platform in games and apps. Not including word of mouth and other media.

    If this actually happens my support will return back to Apple.

    What would you do?
    Last edited by k0de; 02-12-2014 at 07:27 PM.
    msxbox likes this.
    02-12-2014 07:11 PM
  2. aminulahsan's Avatar
    Same here.
    k0de and CitrusMocha like this.
    02-12-2014 07:12 PM
  3. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    In a few months since switching over to MSFT. I have spent hundreds. Perhaps thousands in support to the platform in games and apps. Not including word of mouth and other media.

    If this actually happens my support will return back to Apple.

    What would you do?
    I'd move to another platform. Optimized apps are why WP can have such low specs and be relevant. And porting apps over will mean they don't quite perform as well. And WP devices can't really normally have as high of specs as their Android counterparts, because WP has a license fee and Android doesn't.
    k0de and msxbox like this.
    02-12-2014 07:29 PM
  4. snowmutt's Avatar
    This is being reported in a lot of places, but I would not buy it until it happened.

    Besides, this in itself would not push me to Apple. It surely would make me pay more attention to what happens security and quality wise, but not leave just yet.
    02-12-2014 07:48 PM
  5. k0de's Avatar
    I'd move to another platform. Optimized apps are why WP can have such low specs and be relevant. And porting apps over will mean they don't quite perform as well. And WP devices can't really normally have as high of specs as their Android counterparts, because WP has a license fee and Android doesn't.
    What platform would that be if not Apple?

    This is being reported in a lot of places, but I would not buy it until it happened.

    Besides, this in itself would not push me to Apple. It surely would make me pay more attention to what happens security and quality wise, but not leave just yet.
    Why wait till it happens. What then if it happens.

    Will you continue to support MSFT?

    Same here.
    Why would you return back to Apple?
    Last edited by rockstarzzz; 02-14-2014 at 03:37 AM.
    paulxxwall likes this.
    02-12-2014 08:47 PM
  6. DJRedLine's Avatar
    I don't think this should happen.

    At present Windows Phone has its own developer base. If MSFT decides to allow android apps onto the marketplace then they will have to explain to those developers why they should continue to support Windows.

    A developer could then decide to just make for android and have their apps on both markets. In my personal opinion even though the marketplace is small in comparison to others it is full of good written applications of high quality. If android apps are allowed onto it then it will be overrun with utter rubbish and malware infested applications.
    k0de, msxbox and lcw731 like this.
    02-13-2014 02:19 AM
  7. d3ac0n's Avatar
    LOL at rumor mil... Not gonna happen

    Sent from my LG-D802 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    Zeem Frostmaw and k0de like this.
    02-13-2014 02:26 AM
  8. anony_mouse's Avatar
    A developer could then decide to just make for android and have their apps on both markets.
    That is *exactly* the point! Why would this be bad, for either users or developers? Unless Google Play access is included (which seems unlikely), Microsoft will still get to decide which applications you can run on *your* hardware.
    k0de and cckgz4 like this.
    02-13-2014 03:15 AM
  9. anony_mouse's Avatar
    If this actually happens my support will return back to Apple.
    I have no idea if this will happen or not (*), but why on earth would it make you leave Windows Phone?! How is the number of WP apps you've bought relevant? Isn't this just about increasing the number of apps available to WP users, and making life easier for developers? How is that a bad thing for anyone?

    (*) In another thread, we've been discussing some of the issues with running an Android app outside of 'official' Android.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 02-13-2014 at 03:18 AM. Reason: Better wording
    02-13-2014 03:16 AM
  10. Speedygi's Avatar
    This would be bad if it happens, because then app design will be very uneven. Imagine the Metro UI mixed in with Android app design principles. I wouldn't want that to happen in any case.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    k0de likes this.
    02-13-2014 03:19 AM
  11. anony_mouse's Avatar
    This would be bad if it happens, because then app design will be very uneven. Imagine the Metro UI mixed in with Android app design principles. I wouldn't want that to happen in any case.
    Microsoft could somehow indicate in the app store whether an app is 'WP' or 'Android'. You could then avoid installing 'Android' apps, but those to want to, can do so. Would that solve your problem?
    k0de likes this.
    02-13-2014 03:30 AM
  12. Speedygi's Avatar
    Microsoft could somehow indicate in the app store whether an app is 'WP' or 'Android'. You could then avoid installing 'Android' apps, but those to want to, can do so. Would that solve your problem?
    I personally wouldn't mind if the design is uneven as I use a Galaxy S4 currently, but I'm afraid for the entire ecosystem which could be really uneven once Android apps come into the Windows Phone space.
    k0de likes this.
    02-13-2014 03:33 AM
  13. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Doesn't Windows RunTime already support J#?
    02-13-2014 03:53 AM
  14. emperor_skull's Avatar
    Hell no that's a bad idea, this will certainly end wp8 and make android supreme, app developers won't even think of making apps for wp8 ,they would say since they can now download the same app from Android no need making one for them, and another is that people won't see reaseons to buy a windows phone if they don't have exclusives , another reason is that blackberry tried it and were are they now? , please Microsoft should not try this , rather they should work on there SDKs and API, give developers more freedom and reasons to create apps for them, in time we will have those apps we need, ms should just work on the OS ,please and just forget this idea of allowing users to download apps to there wp
    Xaphoon148, Genghis7777 and k0de like this.
    02-13-2014 03:54 AM
  15. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Hell no that's a bad idea, this will certainly end wp8 and make android supreme, app developers won't even think of making apps for wp8 ,they would say since they can now download the same app from Android no need making one for them, and another is that people won't see reaseons to buy a windows phone if they don't have exclusives , another reason is that blackberry tried it and were are they now? , please Microsoft should not try this , rather they should work on there SDKs and API, give developers more freedom and reasons to create apps for them, in time we will have those apps we need, ms should just work on the OS ,please and just forget this idea of allowing users to download apps to there wp
    So you think exclusive apps are the only selling point of WP? The UI, the Microsoft services, xbox, etc are not attractive in themselves?
    Genuine question: how many worthwhile exclusive apps does WP have?
    Fair point about Blackberry.
    02-13-2014 03:55 AM
  16. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    That is *exactly* the point! Why would this be bad, for either users or developers? Unless Google Play access is included (which seems unlikely), Microsoft will still get to decide which applications you can run on *your* hardware.
    Bad for users. We'll get half-assed ports everywhere. We're already lucky some reluctant devs are taking the time to at least make a native port, but with Android apps running on WP? Even those on the fence will go down the (Android) drain.
    Take a look at BB10.

    Bad for developers. Rather, the ones that don't want to exert any effort. Knowing how inefficiently Android runs, and how low-specced WPs are compared to Androids, devs would be flooded with requests to make the apps smoother, be more efficient, and other sorts of requests along this line.
    WP users are already quite spoiled with the smoothness (and the design) standards set by Microsoft.
    02-13-2014 03:57 AM
  17. LMZR's Avatar
    I'd leave for android and get myself a Note 3 if this were to actually happen.
    k0de likes this.
    02-13-2014 04:10 AM
  18. Xaphoon148's Avatar
    Hope this will never happen, will ruin the UI and app development.
    Suggestion against here... Go vote!
    "We do NOT want Android apps on WP"
    http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/fo...oid-apps-on-wp
    k0de likes this.
    02-13-2014 04:13 AM
  19. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Bad for users. We'll get half-assed ports everywhere. We're already lucky some reluctant devs are taking the time to at least make a native port, but with Android apps running on WP? Even those on the fence will go down the (Android) drain.
    Take a look at BB10.
    OK - I don't necessarily Microsoft should or will do this, but I'm going to continue playing devil's advocate because I don't find the reasons against presented here convincing. I don't see why it matters to the user if the app runs in the WP runtime or the Android runtime. Users care whether the app is good quality, useful, stable, entertaining, well designed, etc, not what language it's written in or what APIs it uses.

    Bad for developers. Rather, the ones that don't want to exert any effort. Knowing how inefficiently Android runs, and how low-specced WPs are compared to Androids, devs would be flooded with requests to make the apps smoother, be more efficient, and other sorts of requests along this line.
    WP users are already quite spoiled with the smoothness (and the design) standards set by Microsoft.
    Several points there:
    - Well, bad developers will write bad apps anyway, and users will be dissatisfied with them. In reality, the market will decide what level of quality is acceptable and anyway, Microsoft will still control which apps go into the app store (assuming they don't adopt Google Play). If Android developers are flooded with requests to make apps smoother, perhaps they will do so?!
    - I don't agree that Android runs inefficiently (in comparison to Windows Phone). I would agree that WP sometimes responds more quickly on cheap hardware (i.e. something happens when I touch the screen), although it varies from device to device. I don't think it's faster than Android (i.e. the action completes, e.g. an app starts up and is usable). Anyway, if there is a difference, is it down to the runtime, or the underlying OS, or the claimed 'better optimisation'? It may be that Android apps run faster on WP - could be a selling point!
    - Are Windows Phones underspecced compared to Android phones? As far as I can tell, for the same price, you get similar hardware. It might be true that the average selling price of a Windows Phone is lower than an Android phone, meaning that the average performance will be less. However, users' expectations will also presumably be lower with cheap hardware, and anyway the device will run more slowly whichever kind of app it is running.
    - The point about design standards is a fair one. Again, Microsoft will presumably control which apps can be run, so they could impose certain design standards on 'Android' apps. This means more work for the developer, but still much less than rewriting the app for WP (which would anyway require the design to be changed, and much more).
    02-13-2014 04:21 AM
  20. anony_mouse's Avatar
    I'd leave for android and get myself a Note 3 if this were to actually happen.
    Why? Is the absence of Android apps the only selling point of WP?
    02-13-2014 04:22 AM
  21. shaurya negi's Avatar
    Also if it even by chance happens,will our phone be able to run it? Specs wise if we see our phone usually have lower ram,less processors and all. It will be buggy right ? Perfect example is bluestacks which is so buggy that it even shows bugs when you use it an i7 processor.
    02-13-2014 04:38 AM
  22. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Why? Is the absence of Android apps the only selling point of WP?
    Just out of curiosity, have you got a WP? Are you using Android? Do you own a smartphone? Are you talking about things with experience? From what I remember you didn't have a smartphone before.

    In any case let's discuss. The spec wars are really at an end. We are in the 'user' experience wars now. Apps are king and so is how people use their phone. Your OS and the apps you have available 'must' offer a cohesive experience for the user. People want to feel that their phone offers an enjoyable experience. This is why we have ecosystems of apps and apps specifically designed for the OSs and not just a 'general' app store where you can download apps for whatever OS you run. HTML 5 is trying to do this by the way but most people are not liking the experience. People want apps for their phones.

    The WP OS is distintly different than Android. Android is Java based and WP is NT. Though there's nothing wrong with running Java on NT or having that ability, we know, anyone who's used Android, that there are a lot of crap apps out there. That's not to say that WP has excellence all around but it's about intereface and looks. WP apps are made for WP. Android apps feel completely different. As for how they would handle the apps situation, who knows?

    As for why I would dump WP the minute MS thought about brinnging Android apps to WP is quite simple. Confidence. To me, this indicates that MS isn't confident in their products. They feel they're boardline failure. Look at BB. They tried it and they're still tanking. If I cannot have confidence that MS can bring the developers in and creat an experience for the phone I bought running their OS, then why should I bother wanting their OS? If I wanted Android I would get Android. If I want iOS I would get that. I don't want something half baked.

    I have little doubt that WP would tank the minute they did this. I feel lots of people will feel cheated in the same way I would. We have been waiting for WP8.1 to come out. We want to see things get better. We're being patient and we try our best to be confident that MS knows what it's doing. However, this would shatter that idea completely.

    Not only would I dump WP. I would also dump my two laptops and not renew my Office365 account. I would lose total confidence in MS as a company. I've been a user of MS products for more than 20 years. I am excited by their new approach. I like what they are currently doing. However if it goes anywhere near Android, I'm turning completely to Apple. At least they have confidence in their products.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 02-13-2014 at 05:09 AM.
    02-13-2014 04:47 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    How many developers that were thinking about making a WP app will trash those plans?

    Worse, how many native WP apps will get pulled from the store, because the developer decides to service both ecosystems with a single android app?

    Furthermore, this is not just about how poorly android apps would fit in with the WP design aesthetic. Apps that were designed to run on Android will never run as efficiently on a different OS. Achieving this feat involves a lot of overhead, putting WP at a disadvantage wherever such apps are involved. The impact would be most felt on low end devices, precisely where the smartphone market is still growing fastest. At least in the eyes of the average consumer, such a move would negate most of the advantages ascribed to WP at the low end.

    Finally, this raises the question how much WP must be watered down to make porting easy. If porting is to be easy, then WP must become more compatible with Android APIs. Must WP then allow apps to access our text messages, our contacts, or allow apps to make phone calls? All of that is currently prohibited for security reason, but normal for Android.

    On the other hand, I can also see a few very interesting tactics this could allow for, but only if embedded within a much larger strategy that I'm still trying to figure out if it is viable.
    N_LaRUE and Genghis7777 like this.
    02-13-2014 04:55 AM
  24. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    On the other hand, I can also see a few very interesting tactics this could allow for, but only if embedded within a much larger strategy that I'm still trying to figure out if it is viable.
    I would like to know more on this. The only advantage I can see is a better agreement with Google and possible Google services for WP. Other than that I'm at a bit of loss.
    02-13-2014 05:09 AM
  25. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Thanks N_LaRUE and a5cent for interesting posts. Unfortunately I don't have time to reply in detail, but I'll respond to a few points. To save typing, I will assume up front that Microsoft will do this (which actually I strongly doubt), and I want to state one more time that I don't think this is necessarily a good idea - but it does raise a lot of interesting points. I will also assume that Microsoft will provide their own app store, and will not integrate Google Play.

    - I do own a smart phone and I have used WP (and all the other major platforms).
    - Abandoning Microsoft entirely just because they added support for Android apps to WP seems something of an overreaction. However, it's your choice, of course.
    - There are crap apps for Android, iOS and WP. For the most part, I avoid installing them (or remove them quickly afterwards). I'll make one point again - Microsoft will control what Android apps can be installed on WP. They can filter out bad apps if they want to do so.
    - Regarding user experience: there might be a trade off between enforcing strong UX requirements, and getting fewer, but more consistent apps; and relaxing them, and getting more, but less consistent apps. That's a choice for Microsoft to make - they can do so because they control the app store.
    - I don't agree that Android apps will, in principle, run less efficiently on WP. It will depend on the design and implementation of WP. WP apps run within a virtual machine (my term) based on Silverlight and Android apps within a Dalvik VM. The most obvious (but not only) way to support Android apps is to add a Dalvik VM alongside the Silverlight VM, and to implement the necessary APIs within Dalvik. There are off-the-shelf products available to do this - I would be interested if anyone has experience of how well they work. I don't see any reason why Dalvik would run less efficiently on the Windows NT kernel than it does on Linux. (*)
    - Regarding app permissions - again, a decision for Microsoft. Yes, Android apps can access e.g. text messages and can make phone calls, but not many do so. In fact, most that request the permission could live without it - such as Facebook. You will exclude certain types of app such as alternative dialers and messaging clients, but that's not a big loss.
    - The limitations and issues discussed in this thread will apply: http://forums.windowscentral.com/oth...roid-geez.html Many apps will still require some porting, and developers will still have to submit their apps to Microsoft.

    (*) A few comments on this approach - assuming apps using both VMs can run simultaneously, there may be some overhead. I don't know whether an app running in either Dalvik or Silverlight gets a full, independent instance of the VM (in which case, there's not much overhead), or whether all apps running in the VM share some resources (in which case, there will be overhead).
    Also, if a suitable off-the-it Dalvik VM + API implementation is not available, it will take *a lot* of effort to implement it from scratch.
    02-13-2014 05:47 AM
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