05-16-2014 07:43 AM
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  1. Robinsonmac's Avatar
    I've always thought if Windows Phone was as good as IOS or Android & 95% of the major apps where there it would see a good adoption rate, but something that happened to me 2 times this week have me thinking MS has a lot of work to do. One was with my 17 yr old & the other with my wife.

    Situation #1
    We were out eating dinner with friend who are moving. Dinner was over & it's time for the group photo. I'm the only WP user everyone else has IPhones (1 out of 4) We all pull our phones out, my daughter who is the photo queen of the family says "use daddy's camera it's way better than ours especially in bad light" I give the waiter my phone he takes the pic & comments on how nice the photo was along with the screen. He then asks what kind of phone is it. I reply it's a Nokia windows phone without even thinking. My daughter then chimes in & says "yeah, it's a really cool phone with a killer camera, but I don't like it because it too different." The waiter replies, "yeah, I would get lost trying to use it & go nuts. Too bad it's not like my IPhone."

    Situation #2
    My wife needed to use my phone to search for something while shopping. She grabs my phones & starts looking at the screen (looking for Safari I guess?) I tell her to hit the search button & start typing what she is looking for, you don't have to open the browser & Google it.... She immediately says this isn't Google & need Google to search. I said you don't need Google to search. She sits there & stares at the screen for a sec or 2 & says " I don't like it, it's different" I then long pressed the search button asked Cortana to search for what she wanted, the results came up very fast with all the normal WP 8.1 results. She then says " That was really cool, but I don't care if it's better or faster, it's different & I don't like it."

    You have 2 generations of smartphone users, two 17 yr olds & a 42 yr old that have the same mind set. Which is They don't care if the product or software is better. They don't like it & refuse to even try it because it's different than what they currently know. It is too much of a hassle or bother to learn something new even if it is faster or better. Think about that & how you combat that frame of mind as I suspect most average consumers(because these 3 are your typical everyday consumer) think the same. Go with what is comfortable, safe & everyone else has even it is slower or doesn't have all the best features.

    How do you compete against that thinking except with a constant & I mean constant, unified & focused ad campaign that is everywhere for a year maybe 2?
    forked, A895, xandros9 and 6 others like this.
    05-07-2014 06:34 PM
  2. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
    To most, that's precisely what the appeal of WP is! That is fresh and different than both iOS and Android. In my view this is something to take advantage of, so Microsoft should really push the marketing on this angle.
    05-07-2014 07:06 PM
  3. RavenSword's Avatar
    To most, that's precisely what the appeal of WP is! That is fresh and different than both iOS and Android. In my view this is something to take advantage of, so Microsoft should really push the marketing on this angle.
    I think they've tried before with those ads of the android and iOS fans fighting.
    praveen9663 and sd173 like this.
    05-07-2014 07:07 PM
  4. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
    I think they've tried before with those ads of the android and iOS fans fighting.
    Don't think so. That was just highlighting the camera. There's so much more they can show off now. Cortana, action center and some of the features packed in WP8.1.
    praveen9663 likes this.
    05-07-2014 07:14 PM
  5. Guytronic's Avatar
    I submit that:
    Many have fear of androids\iThings.

    Diehard persons who defend the other realms always will.
    It will always be..."my android or iPhone had this or it had that."

    Always bugged me a little because me non-techy sister (bless her) used to refer to my Android tab as an iPad.
    How dare her!!!

    WP seems to be attractive to those who really haven't had much exposure to the smartphone.

    A high percentage just automatically reach for the iPhone.
    The other two platforms will eventually fall from grace that's just the natural progression of tech.
    05-07-2014 07:28 PM
  6. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    How do you compete against that thinking except with a constant & I mean constant, unified & focused ad campaign that is everywhere for a year maybe 2?
    That's exactly how you do it. MSFT needs to spend $1B in advertising letting people know about the basic WP81 functionality in real scenarios. Your two scenarios should figure prominently in the ads. MSFT should even show what you did to help them use the features. I'd probably show them using the competition then have "you" show them how easy it is to do the equivalent on WP81 (e.g. have them fumble with a camera app on iOS/Android then you hand them your WP81 phone and say, "you don't need to start an app, just press the button here like on a real camera").

    MSFT is going to have to advertise their way to familiarity.
    Robinsonmac, RJ Priest and sd173 like this.
    05-07-2014 07:35 PM
  7. Elitis's Avatar
    "You can combat reason with reason. You cannot combat the unreasonable with reason". People don't like change. Some people would argue that its because in our caveman days, change could be the difference between life and death, but whatever the reason, we have to face the facts. People don't like live tiles because its different. There is no logical reason for it. The only way to combat it is to get people to quit being sheep and make their own judgments based on their own experiences by actually trying WP for more than 5 minutes.

    Marketing plays a crucial part in getting people to try WP, but like you saw, seeing it isn't enough. Microsoft needs carriers and resellers to push WP more inside of stores. That's the best way to get people to actually try the platform. The more people who actually try it, the more people who will actually buy. The more that buy, the bigger the trend becomes. The bigger the trend becomes, the more people who try. And the cycle continues.

    I could go on, but the biggest reason marketshare of WP won't skyrocket is because the change is unwarranted. Live tiles are, by far, better than static icons, but its not a big enough reason to switch. WP needs a huge advantage over iOS and Android to truly compete, and I believe Microsoft is really capable of making it. More than any other company, they've got connections. There are plenty of PC OEMs trying to break into the mobile space, and Microsoft can and should leverage that. There are plenty of game developers for both PC and Xbox, some of them even realizing that mobile is a good bet, and Microsoft can and should leverage that. We've got the potential, but Microsoft needs to go all-in.
    James8561 and Robinsonmac like this.
    05-07-2014 07:53 PM
  8. falconrap's Avatar
    Makes you wonder what these folks do when they get a brand new car with all the latest features, controls in different places, etc... Ultimately, more and more people will get tired of what they are using and will look for something different. It's one of the reasons why MS makes a lot of changes to the way Windows looks from version to version. People get bored. A lot of people have had iPhones for years and are starting to get bored with them. Within the next 2 years you will probably see a lot of people switching platforms. The key for MS is to be compelling enough, and known enough, to draw people who are switching from Android and iOS to them, instead of to each other.

    It won't hurt having more OEM's with more phones and, thereby, more shelf exposure. As more and more dumb phone users come onto WP for their first smartphone, MS will get more well known for WP, and we'll see that uptick in share. MS doesn't have to win, they just need to get into double digit market share and stay there. As long as they stay viable, we're good. I just don't want to end up in a situation where my only choice is iOS or Android. Ugh.
    05-07-2014 08:14 PM
  9. rodan01's Avatar
    Years ago the OS was the important feature of the phone. But now the product has matured and after years of usage the OS is transparent, people just operate on it and the phone behaves as expected, if It doesn't then It's irritating.

    In the desktop It's the same, you don't love Windows, you don't spend a second in the day thinking about Windows, you operate on it and It just work as expected... well, until Windows 8.

    Windows 8 was the tool to evangelize and train the public on this new UI, but clearly It didn't work, and now Microsoft is giving up bringing back the start menu.
    The number of devices using the Modern UI will be really low. In fact Android and iOS are more similar to Windows than Windows Phone. So you have 3 billion devices in the world with a metaphor and 50 million devices with another.

    WP has a learning curve that people don't want to endure, Mobile OSs aren't exciting anymore. The exciting features are the apps and accessories, but Windows Phone doesn't have the apps and accessories. Definitely It's an uphill battle.

    Microsoft could save WP supporting Android apps and they could allow launcher customization, so OEMs can sell a Windows Phone that behaves as "It should". But maybe It's easier to build on top of AOSP that is already compatible with 75% of the Android apps.
    Last edited by rodan01; 05-07-2014 at 08:40 PM.
    05-07-2014 08:16 PM
  10. Stephen Pedersen's Avatar
    Basic social psychology, familiarization. The more the stimulus is present the more the person likes it. Its why I buy VW and Windows Phone.
    05-07-2014 08:44 PM
  11. Stephen Pedersen's Avatar
    WP has a learning curve that people don't want to endure, Mobile OSs aren't exciting anymore. The exciting features are the apps and accessories, but Windows Phone doesn't have the apps and accessories. Definitely It's an uphill battle.
    Which is crazy, because the learning curve takes about 5 minutes or less. It's that simple! My sister who proclaims herself an EMP got it instantly. Her kids too! And they love it.
    05-07-2014 08:47 PM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    MSFT needs to spend $1B in advertising letting people know about the basic WP81 functionality in real scenarios.
    True, but Microsoft might be a little hesitant to do that after the original Surface deal. They spent about that much marketing it, and total revenue was about $800 million.
    05-07-2014 09:03 PM
  13. SwimSwim's Avatar
    Agree fully with this thread.

    All my friends agree that my phone looks awesome (especially since I'm very picky in what backgrounds I use for my Live Tiles [thanks WP8.1!!!]), but very few are convinced. As you say, people don't like new.

    We also mustn't forget the taboo that is the word "Microsoft." Microsoft is seen as old and ancient, it's not "cool." We also can't forget that "Windows" instantly conjures nightmares of Vista, viruses and BSODs for a very large percentage of the population. We know Microsoft has moved past this, but the world is slow to notice (but they don't care nor want to). And of course, people just love to hate Windows 8, Windows Phone, Bing and Internet Explorer. Have any actually used these? Most haven't, but the media just loves to put Microsoft down.

    So public perception (aka: mindshare) is an area where Microsoft is struggling. They've been doing a fantastic job in turning things around at Redmond, they really have. Sadly, the media always heavily downplays it (if they report on it at all), and so people never really notice. It's so incredibly unfortunate.

    We also can't forget how easily persuaded non-tech-savy people are by sales reps. I had two friends who were getting their first smartphones, and were actually most-than-likely going to get Windows Phones (the Lumia Icon, to be exact). However, both were led astray by Verizon sales reps. My one friend said, "I actually only got this phone because the hot Verizon guy recommended it." The other was fed absurdities about how iPhones require users to pay for all their music, but Android lets you get all your music for free (how ridiculous! All the 3 major ecosystems have dozens of music options to chose from!).

    It's such a shame, really. I'm constantly getting remarks about how cool my phone is, and all the neat things it can do. People are constantly dazzled, because I'm breaking the iPhone/Android bubble they've been living in for years. Sadly, it's not enough, and only minutes later they turn right back around, pointing and laughing at Microsoft. Unfortunately, there's just no winning with these people.
    05-07-2014 09:18 PM
  14. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    True, but Microsoft might be a little hesitant to do that after the original Surface deal. They spent about that much marketing it, and total revenue was about $800 million.
    Well, then MSFT needs to decide whether smartphones are a strategic product for the company or not. If it is then they need to blow all the stops to make it succeed.
    05-07-2014 09:39 PM
  15. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    It could be worse. At least they're not in BlackBerry's shoes!

    But your scenarios are definitely not unique to Windows Phone. People see my Z30 and think it's an Android. When I tell them it's a BlackBerry they're usually surprised and say something like "oh, I didn't know they still made phones".

    When I show off some of the features, especially the gestures, their eyes start to glaze over and I can tell they're totally lost. Like, they see it, realize that it's different from what they know, and their brain shuts off. Like they don't want to know any more because it would make their brain explode.

    Microsoft still has loads of cash to throw behind advertising, R&D, and to lure developers to the platform. And their recent shipping numbers are showing a positive trend around the world. They've solidified themselves as the third mobile platform of choice, and I think if they keep doing what they're doing and continue to improve, they'll be ok and more people will pay attention to them.
    05-07-2014 09:48 PM
  16. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    People switch back and forth between iPhone and Android and they aren't exactly similar. What makes Windows Phone too different?
    jmshub likes this.
    05-07-2014 10:04 PM
  17. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    While reading this, I thought of Windows 8. Just like WP, some people don't like W8 because it's different... They resist change.

    Microsoft really has a lot of work to do.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    05-07-2014 10:07 PM
  18. Peter McNeill1's Avatar
    Pretty hard for MS to overcome when even supposed WP users are slamming them and posting so called what they should be doing. Sorry but none of you (or I) are advertising or design savvy, nor are we super duper programmers, and a lot of things. Just people that complain the other side of the grass is better and by golly MS better step up or we'll leave. I thought computer or camera forums were bad but... oh well I'll just enjoy my wp phone and ignore the silliness that ensues here.
    Guytronic likes this.
    05-07-2014 10:10 PM
  19. V-007's Avatar
    I've always thought if Windows Phone was as good as IOS or Android & 95% of the major apps where there it would see a good adoption rate, but something that happened to me 2 times this week have me thinking MS has a lot of work to do. One was with my 17 yr old & the other with my wife.

    Situation #1
    We were out eating dinner with friend who are moving. Dinner was over & it's time for the group photo. I'm the only WP user everyone else has IPhones (1 out of 4) We all pull our phones out, my daughter who is the photo queen of the family says "use daddy's camera it's way better than ours especially in bad light" I give the waiter my phone he takes the pic & comments on how nice the photo was along with the screen. He then asks what kind of phone is it. I reply it's a Nokia windows phone without even thinking. My daughter then chimes in & says "yeah, it's a really cool phone with a killer camera, but I don't like it because it too different." The waiter replies, "yeah, I would get lost trying to use it & go nuts. Too bad it's not like my IPhone."

    Situation #2
    My wife needed to use my phone to search for something while shopping. She grabs my phones & starts looking at the screen (looking for Safari I guess?) I tell her to hit the search button & start typing what she is looking for, you don't have to open the browser & Google it.... She immediately says this isn't Google & need Google to search. I said you don't need Google to search. She sits there & stares at the screen for a sec or 2 & says " I don't like it, it's different" I then long pressed the search button asked Cortana to search for what she wanted, the results came up very fast with all the normal WP 8.1 results. She then says " That was really cool, but I don't care if it's better or faster, it's different & I don't like it."

    You have 2 generations of smartphone users, two 17 yr olds & a 42 yr old that have the same mind set. Which is They don't care if the product or software is better. They don't like it & refuse to even try it because it's different than what they currently know. It is too much of a hassle or bother to learn something new even if it is faster or better. Think about that & how you combat that frame of mind as I suspect most average consumers(because these 3 are your typical everyday consumer) think the same. Go with what is comfortable, safe & everyone else has even it is slower or doesn't have all the best features.

    How do you compete against that thinking except with a constant & I mean constant, unified & focused ad campaign that is everywhere for a year maybe 2?
    ill add to this
    I was talking on the phone with a customer about getting emails on phone asked what kind of phone he had. he said the brand and I asked windows or android? he said "Android, im not interested in relearning how to do everything with windows - I want to keep to keep it simple how android is similar to the iphone"
    interestingly enough he hates his android and is going back to an iphone soon. first iphone broke or something got a cheap temp android.

    I was also thinking, this is the reason (part of) Joe Belfiore in his AMA was like the app model is better and we're going to remove the built in integration - so WP gets closer and closer to android / iOS - for better(sales) or worse (loss of functionality)

    lastly i'll say, people get tired of the things, they want something new and different, msft has been at the top (sales) for so long, people I think just want something different right now. unlike tesla, theyre not putting enough cutting edge / cool stuff in windows phone for another movement to start and people to have that cult like loyalty and desire to use it. Windows Phone ( I have and love my 920) but for mass appeal I think it needs that it factor still. Something unique that people are salivating for and his widely praised for being innovative.
    05-08-2014 12:22 AM
  20. Reflexx's Avatar
    Apple is the king of marketing.

    You know what we could do? Shoe people old Apple advertisements. You know, when their slogan was, "Think Different"
    05-08-2014 12:51 AM
  21. Reflexx's Avatar
    05-08-2014 12:56 AM
  22. captaincalamity's Avatar
    Everyone I've spoken to immediate reaction is. Windows Phone doesn't have the apps.

    Most people just want to tweet, Facebook and play social zynga games on their iPhones.

    Being slightly different without the right shoes 👞 you will end up at the back of the queue.



    Sent from a Lumia far far away
    05-08-2014 01:04 AM
  23. sagara0510's Avatar
    it annoys me when people say WP is too different from iphone and they don't like it because its different.

    quite honestly, if they don't want something different then yes, stick to the iphone and the boring age old stale looking OS that has been around forever.

    the main reason I moved away from the iphone to android is because I was sick and tired of 'new' iphones being released that just looked the same (OS). I wanted a change. The reason I moved away from android to WP is because I was just tired of waiting for apps to load lol!

    Anyway bottom line is, iphone users are often like that. Too afraid to change to something different and unfamiliar. I come from a family with 4 other iphone users and I've given up ages ago trying to get any of them to move away from what they are currently using.
    05-08-2014 01:06 AM
  24. MJ217's Avatar
    WP seems to be attractive to those who really haven't had much exposure to the smartphone.
    That's pretty much true for me. The Icon I just got is my first smartphone. I've only had it for a few days, and I feel comfortable with it. I never had a data plan before so I made sure I understood Data Sense. I don't want to go over my limit due to messing around/learning the OS so the first thing I did was put a limit on it.

    My dad recently upgraded from a basic phone to a basic phone and is severely jealous of my news and weather live tiles. He isn't up to date on anything remotely techy, so seeing him excited about my phone gives me some hope that he will embrace smartphones. So far he hasn't moved to one because he thinks it would be too much to learn and not worth the time and money.
    Last edited by MJ217; 05-08-2014 at 02:56 AM.
    05-08-2014 02:44 AM
  25. jomarr's Avatar
    People tell me that Windows Phone is so cool because it's different. I applaud Microsoft on thinking outside the box. That's their initial impression with Windows Phone.. Then goes the app debacle where they go on and say how this app and that app is not there. Then I give them the alternatives and they really liked it especially the interface.

    The teen group who indulges their life with Twitter, Facebook and Instagram wouldn't have a problem. I do tell them that Facebook still needs more work since it's unstable but they are sold.

    Windows Phone is not really for someone who wants to fit in, it's for someone who dares to be different. But like every other thing, it boils down to preference.. Even if you like Windows Phone as an Operating System, if there are specific apps that you need not on WP (like bank apps etc.), it's better to stick to Android and iOS but if you can live without it, might as well give it a try.

    Other than the horrible Xbox Music app, I see no other issues with my Windows Phone.
    Editguy1900 likes this.
    05-08-2014 02:50 AM
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