06-02-2014 12:15 PM
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  1. xoxoGeorges's Avatar
    I have always noticed, now that MS released Office for Android, that it's been one side to do the effort.

    Not only Google is not providing services Apple (the bigger competitor) gets, it's been trashing WP at every chance. Pulling the apps for violating imaginary guidelines you don't follow is not exactly good for business.

    Sure there is the Scroogle camaign, but MS is playing nice and being pro-customer. Although MS is not in a position to call exclusives, and Google is, it's a **** move.

    Why is that? Will Google seem suddenly uncool? Are they acknowledging an imminent thread? I mean even if they dominate in terms of marketshare, if WP and Apple attain the same share, Google not only has a challenger, but needs to be more competitive, it was hard to compete against one good OS, so why make it two?
    wpn00b and Gautam Kabiraj like this.
    05-17-2014 03:50 PM
  2. Jaskys's Avatar
    Because Google isn't a child anymore, it's a monster who's trying to get monopoly everywhere

    So far they suceeded with search engine and android, gmail, google docs.

    They will always ignore WP, unless it passes Android. Which is unlikely any time soon. Maybe in 5 years or so...
    And Google is being anti-competetive and yet doesn't receive a penalty like MS did with Windows when they did the same thing
    wpn00b likes this.
    05-18-2014 09:19 AM
  3. xoxoGeorges's Avatar
    Because Google isn't a child anymore, it's a monster who's trying to get monopoly everywhere

    So far they suceeded with search engine and android, gmail, google docs.

    They will always ignore WP, unless it passes Android. Which is unlikely any time soon. Maybe in 5 years or so...
    And Google is being anti-competetive and yet doesn't receive a penalty like MS did with Windows when they did the same thing
    I remember the fiasco the EU caused for internet explorer.
    Google has every right not to release services for WP but what they can't do its create imaginary guidelines to prevent competition.
    05-18-2014 10:55 PM
  4. A895's Avatar
    I remember the fiasco the EU caused for internet explorer.
    Google has every right not to release services for WP but what they can't do its create imaginary guidelines to prevent competition.
    What imaginary guidelines are you talking about?

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    05-19-2014 07:23 AM
  5. Dantekai14's Avatar
    Actually both companies MS and Google are unprofessional.

    One is busy in bad mouthing other company (eg. Scroogled campaign)
    and another one is ignoring another one.
    05-20-2014 04:40 AM
  6. Benjaminb95's Avatar
    I can completely understand why Google is not making apps for WP themselves. The marketshare of WP is negligible at the moment. This, and the fact that most people who use WP rely on Microsoft services, doesn't make it an appealing platform for Google. Sure, Google has the money, they could make apps if they want. But it's not profitable I guess. Making and maintaining their apps on WP costs more than it would yield at the moment. Google is still a company, and companies want to make profit. I see that with more companies, they only want to develop for WP when it has 10-20 percent marketshare.
    However, I don't really understand the reason why Google is not allowing MS to make YouTube available on WP. I could only guess that they don't want a competitor like MS to mess with their apps. I haven't seen the MS YouTube app, but maybe it harms the ad business model or so. If not, there are still reasons for thrashing it. I think Google wants to manage their own apps in their own way. Giving a bit of control to MS does not fit into that model and I can understand that. Look at Facebook: developed by MS, but it could be much better. I think Google is trying to avoid a cripple experience and will only put some effort in WP if it becomes competitive.
    05-20-2014 06:54 AM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Although MS is not in a position to call exclusives, and Google is, it's a **** move.
    You answered your own question right there. I'd also argue that they actually are professional, for exactly that reason. MS also isn't supporting competing platforms because it's the "professional" thing to do, but because they must.

    Professionalism has nothing to do with satisfying customers every whim or being nice. Professionalism is about solidifying your influence on the market and maximizing profits, while minimizing the investments required to achieve both.

    I'm sure Google knows exactly what they are doing. As it is, Google must estimate how many people they are deterring from using WP by not providing their services, compared to the number of people they are alienating by not doing so. I'd wager their current tactic works strongly in their favour and against WP. That is professional.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-20-2014 at 08:32 AM. Reason: spelling (OMG that was bad)
    05-20-2014 07:09 AM
  8. loki993's Avatar
    They have a business to run..why would they want their apps running on a competing platform? The real question though is not why are they picking on MS but why are the NOT picking on iOS?? Just about everything on goggle has an app on iOS I believe. Why allow this and yet pick on MS and make them pull apps when they have like 4 percent of the mobile os market share.
    05-20-2014 02:10 PM
  9. spyderzWPC's Avatar
    MS is a lot more "professional" these days but back in the day they pulled a lot of these same things. I do frown on Google's actions, which I believe they simply see ms as its only competitor. which they actually fear. MS is trying to move on Google's foundation just the same as Google is trying to move in on MS's foundation. the only people they are hurting are the customers which leave a bad taste in our mouth for Google. Their goal is to make you not want to buy ms products because you need some Google service.
    05-20-2014 02:21 PM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    The real question though is not why are they picking on MS but why are the NOT picking on iOS?? Just about everything on goggle has an app on iOS I believe. Why allow this and yet pick on MS and make them pull apps when they have like 4 percent of the mobile os market share.
    Contrary to what most consumers believe, Google isn't in the mobile OS business. Google is in the advertisement business. Android earns Google nothing. In fact, Android is just a huge hole into which Google sinks billions of engineering dollars annually with almost zero returns. The point is, it's not the end product (WP, iOS, Android) that defines what markets a company participates in, but where their revenue comes from (for Google that is internet/cloud/web based services)!

    The key realization is that MS and Google both compete with each other in the markets where they earn money. That is not true of Apple. Apple is a devices and media company. Their primary competitor is Samsung. Not Google. As far as Google is concerned, as long as their ability to collect information on consumer behaviour isn't hampered on Apple's devices, there is no reason not to get cozy with Apple.

    The opposite is true of MS. In the MS ecosystem, people tend to use services that are in direct competition with Google's. Worse yet, MS' ecosystem tends to cut off the channels Google uses to deliver advertising (Bing instead of Google search). That is Google's lifeline.

    Google would be stupid not to behave competitively towards MS and visa versa. Due to Android's relevance in the mobile space, Google gets to be the bully and MS the victim. MS would behave no differently if the tables were turned.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-26-2014 at 12:19 PM. Reason: spelling
    05-20-2014 03:09 PM
  11. bionicgt's Avatar
    I hate Google
    Karthik Naik and kkaspars33 like this.
    05-21-2014 10:53 AM
  12. Tjarren's Avatar
    I can't explain it. Any time I try to rationalize why, it doesn't gel. What I do know though is that the only real solution is for MS to have a competing service that can make up for the loss of Google's services. For the most part, they do pretty well with that but there are some key areas (Google Voice, Google+, Google Cloud Print, etc) where they have nothing that can replace what Google has. MS can't invest heavily in a counterpart for everything that Google is doing either. So it's in those areas that it hurts WP's users.

    The truth is that Google isn't hurting MS. They are hurting WP users. Sadly, we don't matter enough to them ...
    A895 and wpn00b like this.
    05-21-2014 11:16 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    The truth is that Google isn't hurting MS. They are hurting WP users. Sadly, we don't matter enough to them ...
    I disagree. Google pricks MS every time a user, anywhere in the world, decides not to purchase a Windows Phone because they don't support Google's services well enough. A single one is irrelevant, but the sum of those hundreds of thousands of little pricks, if not millions, hurts MS greatly.

    If MS where to pull out of the IT services markets that both companies compete in and ditch Bing, Google would instantly hook us all up to their services. This is also why the popular "market share" argument isn't true. Google isn't innocently ignoring WP's 40 million strong user base because it's too small. It isn't. They are "ignoring" that user base because it would be a colossal strategic blunder to make it easier for even more people to join an ecosystem to which they themselves have only restricted access.
    05-21-2014 12:59 PM
  14. co4nd's Avatar
    2 reasons; 1 Bing, 2 market share.
    05-21-2014 01:32 PM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    Google isn't innocently ignoring WP's 40 million strong user base because it's too small.
    But are 40 million smartphone users enough of a significance in the scope of things? Google works with staggering numbers. 40 million is about a month's worth of Android activations. Yes, I know that probably most of them are not new customers, but I'd venture a guess that Google signs up 40 million new users fairly quickly. Apple's user base is likely pushing 3/4 billion by now (they were projected to be at 600 million by the end of 2013). Google just may be figuring that they have bigger fish to fry.
    05-21-2014 01:35 PM
  16. Ordeith's Avatar
    But then you have Chromebooks. With there 0.2% market share and sales of 2 million a year.
    05-21-2014 01:38 PM
  17. prasath1234's Avatar
    Ya I do believe Google fears Windows phone.just imagine if wp has Google apps then more people will be hooked to it because of superior user experience which android can't give.caution am talking only about low end androids.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    05-21-2014 01:46 PM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    But are 40 million smartphone users enough of a significance in the scope of things? Google works with staggering numbers. 40 million is about a month's worth of Android activations. Yes, I know that probably most of them are not new customers, but I'd venture a guess that Google signs up 40 million new users fairly quickly. Apple's user base is likely pushing 3/4 billion by now (they were projected to be at 600 million by the end of 2013). Google just may be figuring that they have bigger fish to fry.
    If Google earns only 1 cent per year from each of us 40 million WP users, that would amount to a profit of $400'000. I don't know how much Google earns on average per services-user, or how much they can charge their clients per advertisement banner click, but I'd wager 1 cent per year isn't overestimating it. Ultimately you'll have to make your own estimate, as I don't have Google's financials on hand ;-)

    What I do know is that it costs about $50'000 - $100'000 (on average) to develop a smartphone app. To that we must add annual costs for maintenance and updates. If you accept that my estimate of $0.01 per year isn't too far off, meaning $400'000 can be earned annually with a user base of WP's size, there is no economic argument to be made against providing Google's services on WP. Sure, it's small potatoes for Google, but still nothing to sneeze at, and definitely worth picking up if you just find it lying on the road. Theoretically, that user base is very low hanging fruit.
    05-21-2014 01:58 PM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    If Google earns only 1 cent per year from each of us 40 million WP users, that would amount to a profit of $400'000. I don't know how much Google earns on average per services-user, or how much they can charge their clients per advertisement banner click, but I'd wager 1 cent per year isn't overestimating it. Ultimately you'll have to make your own estimate, as I don't have Google's financials on hand ;-)

    What I do know is that it costs about $50'000 - $100'000 (on average) to develop a smartphone app. To that we must add annual costs for maintenance and updates. If you accept that my estimate of $0.01 per year isn't too far off, meaning $400'000 can be earned annually with a user base of WP's size, there is no economic argument to be made against providing Google's services on WP. Sure, it's small potatoes for Google, but still nothing to sneeze at, and definitely worth picking up if you just find it lying on the road. Theoretically, that user base is very low hanging fruit.
    I'm sure Google also calculates how many people they're keeping off of WP by not providing apps. Overall they figure the profit to be gained isn't worth it considering how many users they're losing vs. how many they're gaining.

    Google is a business. Profit is a driving factor, as it should be for any good business. All things considered, Google says there's more to be gained by not providing WP apps than by providing them.

    I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't provide their apps for iOS & Android if they didn't think it would ultimately boost the bottom line. Both iOS & Android have alternatives to a lot of Microsoft's services. Granted, they might not be as good, but for a lot of users they're good enough. Microsoft probably figured they would be losing more users than gaining if they didn't put their services on the competing platforms.

    I don't believe for one second that Google is doing what they're doing to be nasty, or that Microsoft is doing what they're doing to be nice. The reason is this: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    a5cent and giulianoreali like this.
    05-21-2014 02:14 PM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ Exactly what I've been saying (see post #7). 100% agree
    tgp likes this.
    05-21-2014 02:16 PM
  21. tgp's Avatar
    ^ Exactly what I've been saying (see post #7). 100% agree
    Yes I know you said that earlier, but with your other post it sounded like you were saying Google was making a miscalculation!
    acl14 likes this.
    05-21-2014 02:22 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    Yes I know you said that earlier, but with your other post it sounded like you were saying Google was making a miscalculation!
    Nope. I think they are spot on. I would do the exact same thing, and everyone here would hate me for it (including myself since I like WP). It's the cost of doing business.

    EDIT:
    It's why I said: "there is no economic argument to be made against providing Google's services on WP". Google has strategic reasons for not doing what we'd all like.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-21-2014 at 05:57 PM. Reason: see edit
    dkediger likes this.
    05-21-2014 02:36 PM
  23. dkediger's Avatar
    .....
    It's why I said: "there is no economic argument to be made against providing Google's services on WP". Google has strategic reasons for not doing what we'd all like.
    I've beating this same drum for quite a while. Although its now a month old, here's a BusinessInsider link that is germane to that angle. The TLDR summary is that for Google's purposes, "high-value" connections to their services are nearing saturation. They need to create more high value connections into their uni-sphere to create investor value.

    Think of the acquisition of Nest and the rumors being floated about Google's intent for Nest.

    Windows Phone would be a slam dunk, and probably pretty low effort (compared to growing the Nest product to provide a similar user base for example). So, high value usage of Google services, low effort implementation, yet it's not happening. From a purely economics standpoint, there is every reason for Google to do services on WindowsPhone. There is absolutely more than the economics/marketshare explanation at work here.

    Business Insider - Why Google Isn't Growing
    Last edited by dkediger; 05-22-2014 at 10:25 AM.
    a5cent, wpn00b and Ian Too like this.
    05-22-2014 10:07 AM
  24. co4nd's Avatar
    But then you have Chromebooks. With there 0.2% market share and sales of 2 million a year.
    And yet these Chromebooks give Microsoft's management nightmares.
    05-22-2014 10:34 AM
  25. tgp's Avatar
    And yet these Chromebooks give Microsoft's management nightmares.
    That's what I can't figure out. Chromebooks are barely a blip on the radar, and yet Microsoft is crapping their pants over them.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    05-22-2014 10:42 AM
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