06-24-2014 09:16 AM
97 1234
tools
  1. mrpuny's Avatar
    I also fail to understand why starting over, if the current system if broken, is a bad thing. I mean, I get that you can argue that they should've done it right the first time, but I don't think any company can get everything right the first time.
    Was it really completely "broken" (i.e. irredeemable)? If not, then I think this should be considered (and to varying degrees, not just to Xbox Music, but the whole Win8/WP8 transition)
    06-19-2014 09:07 PM
  2. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    @ OP
    wat's your point?
    I don't see any competition.
    Any os should be fine, as long if it does what the user wants.
    It has to be practical, some like to work with Apple and some with Linux or Windows.
    The best OS is the one who fits your needs, everything else is just a waist of money

    The only thing i dislike about MS is "forcing" updates.
    But thats a pure personal "issue"
    My lappy runs fine on 7, but had to upgrade to 8 for doing some appcoding for wp8
    The transition went great, until they "forced" 8.1 as a desktop os.
    **** happends, my laptop cant run 8.1 due graphics driver issues, so i have to stay behind.
    But staying on 8 the IE browser wont get update to IE 11.
    If i want that explorer update, i have to return to 7 or go to 8.1 ( moving back or forth ), the last one is no option.
    But its stil a matter of choice.
    MS is trying to get more developers, but to develop you need atleast a win 8 desktop os.
    But they also want you to have a save ie browser........so build that darn thing that it can operate on win8
    Or rebuild the developerskit that can run on windows 7.

    But then again, a matter of choice.
    I choose to do a step back and running again on 7
    Guytronic, despertador and neo158 like this.
    06-19-2014 09:18 PM
  3. astondg's Avatar
    Wow, people really don't like change.

    Even as a purely desktop PC, provided you install one of the many Start Menu extensions, Windows 8 has benefits over Windows 7. I know things like Explorer (or at least large parts of it) were rewritten to improve speed and functionality. The management of NTFS was reworked (things like ChkDsk were rewritten) The DPI scaling was revisited (I know it's still not perfect but it was improved). Printing was improved/simplified. A lot of work was done with hardware drivers and testing. File History was added to simplify backups for the average consumer. Boot speeds were significantly improved. Cloud services were integrated more tightly into the OS. More parental controls were added for users with children. The list goes on and on.

    My point is that Windows 8 wasn't a 'start from scratch' OS, sure large parts were changed and improved to make them better, but underneath it all is still the same OS you're used to. Add the start menu back in if you need it and you'll be set to go.

    EDIT: I'll also say that Windows 8 had a very accessible 'preview' release, as have the last two Windows Phone updates, and Microsoft seems very responsive to user feedback. They are intentionally getting this stuff out early to people to get feedback so they can build what we want and not what the dev team has decided is best.
    06-19-2014 09:29 PM
  4. mrpuny's Avatar
    Wow, people really don't like change.

    Even as a purely desktop PC, provided you install one of the many Start Menu extensions, Windows 8 has benefits over Windows 7. I know things like Explorer (or at least large parts of it) were rewritten to improve speed and functionality. The management of NTFS was reworked (things like ChkDsk were rewritten) The DPI scaling was revisited (I know it's still not perfect but it was improved). Printing was improved/simplified. A lot of work was done with hardware drivers and testing. File History was added to simplify backups for the average consumer. Boot speeds were significantly improved. Cloud services were integrated more tightly into the OS. More parental controls were added for users with children. The list goes on and on.

    My point is that Windows 8 wasn't a 'start from scratch' OS, sure large parts were changed and improved to make them better, but underneath it all is still the same OS you're used to. Add the start menu back in if you need it and you'll be set to go.

    EDIT: I'll also say that Windows 8 had a very accessible 'preview' release, as have the last two Windows Phone updates, and Microsoft seems very responsive to user feedback. They are intentionally getting this stuff out early to people to get feedback so they can build what we want and not what the dev team has decided is best.
    Just a couple of comments. First the obvious - if only the Sinofsky regime was as receptive to feedback as the current leadership appears to be. Sure there was a 'preview' for 8.0, but did anyone take feedback into account?

    Second: I'm someone who started playing around with Windows 8 from the first release of the developer preview. Loved the general concepts, learned to use it, and when it was finally commercially released, I updated all but one of my home computers to it. (The one I didn't update is a Windows Media Center "server", and I didn't - and still don't - see the point for updating that one....)

    Windows 8.0 definitely had a learning curve, but I was OK with that. It was exciting, and I quickly came to like it a lot. I still have a launch day Surface RT - use it everyday. That said, I also have experience with Windows 8.x at work, and while 8.1 (esp. the latest update) is good, I found 8.0 oddly frustrating. I was familiar with it, and even though I knew the essentials, in an environment where I literally had no use for any "Metro" apps (all our work apps were Desktop apps) I found Windows 8.0 annoying. (Win 8.1, and especially update 1 are much better in that regard.) I've also had to help some friends (since I'm the "computer guy") with Windows 8, and while it's definitely gotten better with the 8.1 updates, man MS really screwed the pooch with the 8.0 transition....
    06-19-2014 09:59 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Wow. That's all I can say about this thread. There's a reason engineers **** heads with the bean counters in just about every industry. Let me impart some wisdom that seems to escape most tech aficionados: price of shares beats market share every day of the week. Microsoft has the money and the moxie to blow all but a few companies off the corporate globe. But that requires the kind of capital that makes investors nervous. Two words that don't belong in the same sentence are nervous and investor. Boardroom coups are made that way.

    Scrapping things and starting over are not done on a whim, except if your name is Leo Apotheker but that's another story. R&D departments work for years on new products before the first alpha ever sees the light of day. By the time a new product hits the market it may have already been deemed obsolete - Palm Foleo among others. Corporate espionage is a big business. Knowing what your foe is planning to do 5 years ahead of time is like having your own Ft. Knox. It's no coincidence that manufacturers release similar products and technologies within close proximity. Anybody really think that companies can just wave a wand and release a similar product within a few months?

    It's nice to see the enthusiasm shown on these boards but as Pat Riley said today "everybody needs to get a grip".
    06-19-2014 11:01 PM
  6. tungha's Avatar
    i give this topic 10/10 :) Microsoft needs to stop playing around with their 'touch windows' and get back to old day with Windows 9. Keep moving with WP until it matures to become the OS for Tablets. Kill Windows RT BTW.
    06-19-2014 11:06 PM
  7. astondg's Avatar
    Just a couple of comments. First the obvious - if only the Sinofsky regime was as receptive to feedback as the current leadership appears to be. Sure there was a 'preview' for 8.0, but did anyone take feedback into account?
    I felt like they did but I don't have anything off hand to back that up. Given the extent of the whole process, receiving the feedback from many people, collating it, understanding it, prioritising it amongst other feedback and work already scheduled and then designing, implementing, testing and releasing a solution, I wouldn't be surprised if feedback from the preview was responsible for changes released in 8.1 & Update 1.

    I'm a .NET software developer by day, so all my dev tools live in the desktop world and I've used a Surface Pro since it's release so I know what it's like to work in that environment. However I still use Modern Mail, IE, PDF Reader, Music & Video and many others at the same time as Visual Studio, SQL Server, Gimp, etc. etc. and I actually like finding Modern apps to replace my desktop ones where I can because of the integration with the share charms and things like Play To.

    In saying that I also worked in an environment recently where I had Windows 8 on a locked down desktop with NO Internet access and only desktop Outlook for internal email and in that case Modern didn't make a lot of sense so I installed an extension to boot to desktop and used it just as I would a Windows 7 machine. (I could have brought the Start Menu back too but for me there was no difference between it and the start page).

    BTW: I installed Windows 8.1 on my Media Center PC and I think it's great because the live tiles of the start screen provide a nice overview of News, Emails, Calendar and other things as well as having the Modern apps scale nicely so they're easy to use on the T.V. from the lounge chair.
    06-19-2014 11:39 PM
  8. dlalonde's Avatar
    The truth of the matter is if Apple's OS for their computers was as good as you imply they would own more than the small percent of the market they have. I think its nice but hardly ground breaking.
    I didn't comment on Apple's OS. I just said that with Mac OS X, circa 2000/2001, people started liking Mac OS and switching to a more attractive OS (in comparison to XP that was a little bland) and I think Microsoft wanted to compete with this with Vista and Aero.
    06-20-2014 05:21 AM
  9. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    Why Xbox Music is to sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow to open?! WHY?
    06-20-2014 10:13 AM
  10. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    And, I do not like star menu from W7. 8.1 > 7
    06-20-2014 10:14 AM
  11. boovish's Avatar
    You forgot to mention the Kin ;-)

    Microsoft Kin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Oh, I loved my KIN, my friend thought that it was a makeup compact at first. I would love to see something like feeds in WP, or maybe the dot
    06-20-2014 05:04 PM
  12. Loco5150's Avatar
    I didnt read the whole topic, but if this has been pointed out Im sorry.

    I dont get MS for going back and forth all the time. Its bad for everyone and very confusing for the average customer. Of course its great if they see that something didnt work and they change it, but seriously how lost can you be? I mean when you have a big company with huge resources, you should be able to have a clear vision about things when you do something.

    Great example is the mess, no sorry a HUGE MESS they created with Facebook in Windows Phone. The idea of the integrated part was great, but it was missing a huge number of features and couldnt be updated fast enough. Anything changed at Facebook's backend and Windows Phone was SOT. Who in their right mind thought the integrated part is good enough Facebook experience for an average user should be fired, immediately. You dont know how many friends of mine that switched from iOS to WP complained about the issues and missing features. When they realized they need the app too, they comlained how laggy the app was. Yes, they are all back at iOS now.

    Now MS is fixing things and making the app better, its becoming decent and the integrated part is gone, as it has become redundand. What do we have now? People complaining that they miss the integrated part, of course. Im sure it was enough for a small group of users and great for them.

    There are other similar examples with MS as was pointed out in the first posts of this topic. IMO all of this is a clear sign of poor management / lagging vision by the top people in charge of the design.

    Actually now that I think of this, if I would be in the company, I would have expected Ballmer's resignation just based on al lof these back and forth WP/Xbox Music/W8 and how many other examples like this there would be.
    Last edited by Loco5150; 06-21-2014 at 07:58 AM.
    06-21-2014 04:07 AM
  13. Siah1214's Avatar
    They were not going to hold up the release of 8.1 Developers Preview till Xbox Music was totally finished.
    Xbox Music updates fixes the problems MS knows about and incorporates user input in their updates, what I would expect.
    8.1 is about a preview for developers, not a polished OS for general release.
    Well hell I didn't realize the Lumia 630 was released with a fully functional polished music app. I wish they'd update my phone to whatever music app that is so I can stop dealing with black screens, lag, and general garbage that my music app puts me through every day.

    Think before you post.
    06-21-2014 05:05 AM
  14. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    Well hell I didn't realize the Lumia 630 was released with a fully functional polished music app. I wish they'd update my phone to whatever music app that is so I can stop dealing with black screens, lag, and general garbage that my music app puts me through every day.



    Think before you post.

    And Xbox Music is available since December from 2013 for WP8
    06-21-2014 08:00 AM
  15. neo158's Avatar
    And Xbox Music is available since December from 2013 for WP8
    So, the Music+Videos Hub was used on WP8, so Microsoft really had no motivation to update Xbox Music just for those who had an XB Music Pass. WP8.1 changes that by making XB Music the primary app for Music, this means that they have to update it regularly now to add missing features and fix bugs.
    06-21-2014 08:37 AM
  16. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    So, the Music+Videos Hub was used on WP8, so Microsoft really had no motivation to update Xbox Music just for those who had an XB Music Pass. WP8.1 changes that by making XB Music the primary app for Music, this means that they have to update it regularly now to add missing features and fix bugs.
    Yeah. I agree. But since December that he was slow, buggy.
    MS made since from the start it this way, bad.
    06-21-2014 09:36 AM
  17. Bobvfr's Avatar
    i give this topic 10/10 :) Microsoft needs to stop playing around with their 'touch windows' and get back to old day with Windows 9. Keep moving with WP until it matures to become the OS for Tablets. Kill Windows RT BTW.
    Do you honestly think the world is going back to non touch screens?

    I don't know what is in Windows 9 but it sure as hell isn't going to be a remake of XP.

    Bob
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    06-21-2014 10:00 AM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    Do you honestly think the world is going back to non touch screens?
    I don't see the PC world going all touch screen anytime soon. I work at a desk. I'm certainly not going to have my arm outstretched using my touchscreen all day. There will continue to be more and more touchscreens, but in the current paradigm of how we use computers I'm quite confident it won't go all touchscreen
    Chregu likes this.
    06-21-2014 10:08 AM
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
    I work at a desk. I'm certainly not going to have my arm outstretched using my touchscreen all day.
    I'm sick and tired of hearing this claim. It's honestly one of the most ill conceived notion that having or using a touch screen means your arm is outstretched all day.

    If you have a touch screen, it doesn't mean you have to hold your arms up to the screen the whole fvcking time. It just means that when appropriate, you can interact with the computer in a very direct way. Simply touch it.

    I have a touch screen laptop and I use touch as my point of interaction probably 40-50% of the time. Why? Because it's easy and the most direct way to press a button. Do my arms get tired? No, because I don't sit there with my arm extended the whole time. Reaching to touch the screen is almost exactly the same as moving the mouse. It's a larger degree of movement, but its also more direct and intuitive.

    Touch screens will dominate most peoples interaction with computers within the next 10 years. Eventually, only professionals like architects, engineers, designers, and developers will use the more targeted, controlled mouse.
    fatclue_98 and Kram Sacul like this.
    06-21-2014 10:43 AM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    I'm sick and tired of hearing this claim. It's honestly one of the most ill conceived notion that having or using a touch screen means your arm is outstretched all day.

    If you have a touch screen, it doesn't mean you have to hold your arms up to the screen the whole fvcking time. It just means that when appropriate, you can interact with the computer in a very direct way. Simply touch it.

    I have a touch screen laptop and I use touch as my point of interaction probably 40-50% of the time. Why? Because it's easy and the most direct way to press a button. Do my arms get tired? No, because I don't sit there with my arm extended the whole time. Reaching to touch the screen is almost exactly the same as moving the mouse. It's a larger degree of movement, but its also more direct and intuitive.

    Touch screens will dominate most peoples interaction with computers within the next 10 years. Eventually, only professionals like architects, engineers, designers, and developers will use the more targeted, controlled mouse.
    I didn't expect you'd agree.

    I know that just because you have a touchscreen doesn't mean that you have to use it. The problem is that we need a UI that seamlessly delivers an optimized experience with both touchscreen with mouse & keyboard. So far we have been left with compromises on both sides.
    06-21-2014 11:02 AM
  21. mpt15's Avatar
    I agree with spaulagain. I use the touch screen while working because it comes more naturally compared to using the mouse sometimes. Some examples I can give are increasing and decreasing the zoom on a document, webpage; scrolling a page; changing screen brightness and volume. When I'm typing a document im just using the keyboard. I've found that the touch screen actually helps me. It isn't inconvenient at all, and no, my arms don't hurt.

    My mom, who has only used touch screen phones, and didn't once think there can be a touch screen computer, started touching the screen of our non touch laptop. She didn't know that there were touch screen computers. It just seemed like a natural way to interact with a computer. That's the way we interact with information now.
    06-21-2014 11:07 AM
  22. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    My PC isn't touch, but I love Windows 8.1.
    So much better the new start menu then the old one!
    captura-de-tela-49-.jpg
    06-21-2014 11:07 AM
  23. spaulagain's Avatar
    My PC isn't touch, but I love Windows 8.1.
    So much better the new start menu then the old one!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Captura de Tela (49).jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	164.0 KB 
ID:	69832
    Agreed, I'm completely befuddled by how attached people are to the old Start Menu. I've always thought it was one of the worst parts of Windows. Such a convoluted menu system of endless cascading folders.
    06-21-2014 11:29 AM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Agreed, I'm completely befuddled by how attached people are to the old Start Menu. I've always thought it was one of the worst parts of Windows. Such a convoluted menu system of endless cascading folders.

    I rarely used the start menu in Windows 7. I had everything I used frequently pinned to the taskbar.
    06-21-2014 11:32 AM
  25. spaulagain's Avatar
    I rarely used the start menu in Windows 7. I had everything I used frequently pinned to the taskbar.
    Same here, pinned all my apps to the task. And the search on the old Start Menu was horrible, W8 is so much better in regards of search.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-21-2014 12:04 PM
97 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Audi and Bluetooth streaming
    By erike3198 in forum Windows Phone 8.1 Preview for Developers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-11-2014, 09:29 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-23-2014, 10:08 AM
  3. Lumia 720 freezes and Hangs
    By WPCentral Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-19-2014, 07:43 PM
  4. Microsoft partners with British designer to create wireless charging pants
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-19-2014, 07:20 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD