06-30-2014 02:20 PM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    But dont you think that Microsoft first needs to improve its own apps on windows Phone.. For eg: Skype! We all know that Skype sucks on windows phone which is microsoft's own platform.. But its just amazing on other platforms..
    If a Nokia X user moves to a Nokia Lumia 930 he will find that all those apps sucks and he will consider the switch as the biggest mistake of his/her life! And this will severely hamper Microsoft's Reputation!


    Microsoft needs to improve apps on windows phone.. Atleast its own apps! Is it difficult for Microsoft to do so??
    I thought at first that Microsoft is using the Nokia X to get users into their ecosystem in order to sell them a WP next time. But you have a very valid point here. Maybe the idea below is more accurate...

    I don't think they strategy is that Nokia X users will switch to Windows Phone. The OS is irrelevant, the important thing is to lock them into the Microsoft services.

    <snip>

    Android has 80% of market share, WP has 2%. Microsoft has to be pragmatic. If they build great services and a decent app store they could capture millions of happy Android users.

    Many operating systems will rise and fall with many type of devices. The glue that keep the experience consistent are the services.
    The WP statistic is a bit off, but your point stands. The problem is that Microsoft can certainly get Nokia X users into their ecosystem, but it won't do much to draw users of regular Android phones. Except for specific business related scenarios, at the moment there's generally little reason for an Android user to use Microsoft's services.

    That said, if Microsoft keeps evolving their services like they have been, before too long there might be compelling reasons for iOS & Android users to use them.
    06-27-2014 12:08 PM
  2. rodan01's Avatar
    For a tech fan in the west It doesn't make sense to chose the Nokia X over Android. Although, first time smartphone buyers in emerging markets are easy to grab. The Nokia X is the bestseller phone in Russia and the third bestseller in India.



    In the future the app store will grow and won't be an issue. Cortana will improve, Microsoft will launch a smartwatch and other wearables, they demoed a car infotainment system at the build conference, the integration of the X with Windows will be a joy, free office and other productivity apps.

    The X line could become a good rival to Google Android in the west. It's a long road but it could happen.

    If Microsoft remove Google's advantage in the smartphone market which is the hub, they can compete in a more leveled field in the ecosystem war.
    06-27-2014 12:43 PM
  3. pahutakz's Avatar
    MS will produce ios device next year! haha ๐Ÿ˜†
    .Net and Web dev. AMA
    06-28-2014 02:15 AM
  4. wuiyang's Avatar
    MS will produce ios device next year! haha
    .Net and Web dev. AMA
    apple wont sell their OS
    06-28-2014 03:43 AM
  5. ohgood's Avatar
    Microsoft just fragmented it's possible future user (and current fan) base?



    maybe this is plan C, or can't beat em join em ?
    06-28-2014 03:54 AM
  6. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    In fairness, it looks usable unlike the X which looks and performs like crap
    06-28-2014 03:58 AM
  7. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    I personally do have a lot to do with software, and no. It's not impossible.
    06-28-2014 04:00 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    I personally do have a lot to do with software, and no. It's not impossible.
    Then you have a different understanding of what it means to 'shove' features from one program into another (granted, 'shove' isn't the best word to describe a software development process). I understand that to mean something along the lines of copy/pasting features from Zune into WP's XBM.

    Just the fact that Zune and WP are based on entirely different technology stacks already makes it impossible.
    06-28-2014 04:37 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Some here argue that MS' primary goal is to get people to use their services, and that getting people to use WP is secondary.

    Some view this to be self evident, but I don't see why.

    Almost all of MS' services loose money. Why is it so important to get people to use something that doesn't earn MS money?

    AFAIK Office 365 is the only profitable service, but it is profitable only at the expense of traditional Office sales.

    For Apple, services are all about ecosystem tie in. Their services exist primarily as a way to get you to buy Apple devices, which is how they earn money. As a result, Apple has few reasons to offer their services on other platforms. Services with direct sales potential, like iTunes, are the exception.

    Google's services exist primarily as information gathering machines or advertising delivery channels. For them it makes sense to bring their services to every platform where information gathering and advertisement distribution are possible without restrictions, which is why they won't be coming to WP.

    Both companies have very good reasons to make their services best on their platforms and not to support the competition unconditionally, but apparently many believe that for MS this works differently. Why?

    These services all serve a purpose. They aren't the purpose in and of themselves. To me it sounds like some are saying that for MS, they are the purpose. I'm not flat out disagreeing, but it sounds fishy to me.
    06-28-2014 07:03 AM
  10. pahutakz's Avatar
    apple wont sell their OS

    LOL you don't say? I know right Im just trolling ๐Ÿ˜†
    06-28-2014 07:47 AM
  11. DJCBS's Avatar
    The problem is that Microsoft's profits on Windows are declining thanks to the decline of the traditional PC and even the laptop. If they don't try to push out their services to compensate for that, soon they'll be left only with Office profits. That's not a good idea.

    Yes, Microsoft still makes a ton of money out of Windows and Office, specially in enterprise. But unless they want to end up just offering enterprise solutions, they have to try to compensate their sales losses some other way. Leading people to their other services is a solution that, if all goes well, ends up bringing people back to those first software offerings that they rule, ie Windows.
    06-28-2014 08:23 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    The problem is that Microsoft's profits on Windows are declining thanks to the decline of the traditional PC and even the laptop. If they don't try to push out their services to compensate for that, soon they'll be left only with Office profits.
    Like I said, pushing out more services doesn't compensate for anything. Their services aren't making them money. That is the fundamental flaw in all the 'go services' arguments.
    06-28-2014 08:31 AM
  13. DJCBS's Avatar
    Like I said, pushing out more services doesn't compensate for anything. Their services aren't making them money. That is the fundamental flaw in all the 'go services' arguments.
    And that's where the ads come in. Microsoft also makes money out of advertising in their services. I think you'll be seeing more ads from Microsoft in the future, in the likes of the ones you now see in the XBone.
    06-28-2014 10:43 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    And that's where the ads come in. Microsoft also makes money out of advertising in their services. I think you'll be seeing more ads from Microsoft in the future, in the likes of the ones you now see in the XBone.
    In the U.S. maybe. Outside the U.S. Google commands an advertisement monopoly that I doubt MS will be penetrating anytime soon. We're just all assuming MS can decide to make money off adds the way Google does, 15 years after Google has claimed almost every market. I don't think that is realistic. If MS could make their services profitable they would already be profitable.
    06-28-2014 11:44 AM
  15. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I absolutely don't understand why Microsoft still releases Android phones... would Apple release an Android or WP phone? Never! Then why does Microsoft do it? Don't they trust their software to be the best?
    Two different companies with two different ways of making money.
    06-28-2014 12:18 PM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    Two different companies with two different ways of making money.
    Before too long they will probably be making money the same way.
    06-28-2014 12:52 PM
  17. nyolc8's Avatar
    Their first phone? Nope. Just three letters: KIN
    And for using Android when they have WP: lol
    06-28-2014 01:04 PM
  18. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Before too long they will probably be making money the same way.
    That's their goal, but I doubt they're going to get there.
    tgp likes this.
    06-28-2014 01:28 PM
  19. DJCBS's Avatar
    In the U.S. maybe. Outside the U.S. Google commands an advertisement monopoly that I doubt MS will be penetrating anytime soon. We're just all assuming MS can decide to make money off adds the way Google does, 15 years after Google has claimed almost every market. I don't think that is realistic. If MS could make their services profitable they would already be profitable.
    We have ads in Microsoft's offerings in Europe too.
    Don't mix ads with a search engine. Bing will never go anywhere as long as Google is around. That I have no doubts. But the rest? Outlook & Co.? Those stand a good chance. And those can be exploited through ads. Outlook already is, for example.
    06-28-2014 04:07 PM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    We have ads in Microsoft's offerings in Europe too.
    Don't mix ads with a search engine. Bing will never go anywhere as long as Google is around. That I have no doubts. But the rest? Outlook & Co.? Those stand a good chance. And those can be exploited through ads. Outlook already is, for example.
    I'd agree with all of that. The difference seems to be that you think MS can make their services profitable by distributing advertisements through outlook.com. I'm not convinced that can generate enough profits to make MS' services profitable. Most of Google's services aren't profitable either (except search), neither are Apple's (except iTunes). I'm sure MS can do better, but achieve profitability... I don't know.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how profits are reported in 2015 and 2016.
    06-28-2014 04:30 PM
  21. DJCBS's Avatar
    I'd agree with all of that. The difference seems to be that you think MS can make their services profitable by distributing advertisements through outlook.com. I'm not convinced that can generate enough profits to make MS' services profitable. Most of Google's services aren't profitable either (except search), neither are Apple's (except iTunes). I'm sure MS can do better, but achieve profitability... I don't know.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how profits are reported in 2015 and 2016.
    Oh no no no. It's not that. I think, though, that the ads can help with the profitability of their services. But not sustain them on their own. If Google can't do it after all these years, none of the other non-advertisement based companies can.

    But as everything in economics, it's a matter of balancing the revenue sheets. If they can compensate the losses on Windows sales with gains in their services sales (be it through ads, subscriptions to OneDrive, Xbox etc), they'll be good. They just can't keep expecting to survive only based on their operating systems offers. They need more software and service sales. Which is where the Android phones come in. Note, though, I'm not entirely sure this X platform strategy Microsoft came up with will work. I have my doubts but we'll see. So far the phones are selling well.
    06-28-2014 06:15 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    Oh no no no. It's not that. I think, though, that the ads can help with the profitability of their services. But not sustain them on their own. If Google can't do it after all these years, none of the other non-advertisement based companies can.

    But as everything in economics, it's a matter of balancing the revenue sheets. If they can compensate the losses on Windows sales with gains in their services sales (be it through ads, subscriptions to OneDrive, Xbox etc), they'll be good. They just can't keep expecting to survive only based on their operating systems offers. They need more software and service sales. Which is where the Android phones come in. Note, though, I'm not entirely sure this X platform strategy Microsoft came up with will work. I have my doubts but we'll see. So far the phones are selling well.
    It seems to me I'm still not understanding something.

    If MS can't expect to survive based on their operating systems offers, then relying on a services division that both of us expect to generate further loses isn't going to help them either. In fact, it will make things even worse. If the Nokia X, and in particular the services angle, are only about losing less money, well, that's definitely not the best business plan, right? It would then be far more reasonable to just kill the Nokia X and all of MS' money losing services along with it (everything except Office 365).

    Obviously, that isn't what MS is doing, which is why I'm not on board with the popular belief that getting more people to use MS' services is directly related to financial gains.

    I don't know. It seems I'm the only one that isn't on board, which does make me sceptical of my own views, but I still don't see what everyone else is seeing either.
    06-28-2014 06:49 PM
  23. DJCBS's Avatar
    It seems to me I'm still not understanding something.

    If MS can't expect to survive based on their operating systems offers, then relying on a services division that both of us expect to generate further loses isn't going to help them either. In fact, it will make things even worse. If the Nokia X, and in particular the services angle, are only about losing less money, well, that's definitely not the best business plan, right? It would then be far more reasonable to just kill the Nokia X and all of MS' money losing services along with it (everything except Office 365).

    Obviously, that isn't what MS is doing, which is why I'm not on board with the popular belief that getting more people to use MS' services is directly related to financial gains.

    I don't know. It seems I'm the only one that isn't on board, which does make me sceptical of my own views, but I still don't see what everyone else is seeing either.
    At this point it's about losing less money, yeah.
    They can't go around axing all their money-losing offerings otherwise WP will be the first to face the axe, starting with Microsoft Mobile. Followed by Bing, Xbox and the lion share of Microsoft's current offerings. So they must try to leverage the money losses in a manner that can be compensated by other gains. Even if the services division isn't profitable to sustain itself, it may help keep other software alive. It's bleeding a thing to keep another alive.

    Again, I'm also not sure the X platform is such a good idea or that it will work. But hey...it's more likely to work than if Microsoft did nothing. And at a certain point, any X phone sold is one potential less Google Android phone sold (although it may backfire on them since I doubt anyone who experiences the X platform will be inclined to try a Windows Phone after that...)
    06-28-2014 07:05 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    And at a certain point, any X phone sold is one potential less Google Android phone sold (although it may backfire on them since I doubt anyone who experiences the X platform will be inclined to try a Windows Phone after that...)
    Hmmm, I would almost think that any Nokia X phone sold is one potential less WP sold. It seems that a lot of people with WP have it because it's on a Nokia device. The X provides users with a Nokia but with a much more robust ecosystem, Microsoft's services and Android's more plentiful and higher quality apps.
    06-28-2014 10:19 PM
  25. rodan01's Avatar
    Apple makes a lot of money with itunes. Google make a lot of money with ads.
    MS could make money with both and more. Online services, digital goods and the cloud are just starting. These markets will explode in the next few years.
    Just think about it. 1 billion people buying music, movies, books, cloud storage, apps, accessories, etc., from you, being exposed to your ads. It sounds like a good business.
    Markets aren't static, some staff are going to grow others are going to shrink.
    It looks like operating ssystems and hardware are losing relevance.
    06-28-2014 10:35 PM
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