The app gap will close. MSFT living up to its promise.

[rodan01]

That's a common belief and I understand why it is appealing, but that would be the death knell for Windows Phone OS. If we examine the root cause for the app gap, we'll see that it isn't because the media is so pro-Apple, or that Google did anything underhanded to gain marketshare, but because Microsoft has repeatedly stumbled and fumbled in the mobile space.

Many have forgotten, or were too young to remember, that the 2 big players in mobile were Palm and Microsoft. Microsoft's Windows CE, Pocket PC, and the rest were highly functional, highly flexible platforms. I developed for those early mobile platforms and did a lot of UI work as well. It had a level of ease of customization that Android still hasn't attained.

But Microsoft squandered the lead it had. Even when Palm imploded, Microsoft found ways to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

I've lost count of how many developers got burned by putting their eggs in the Microsoft mobile basket. Once burned, twice shy. Apple seized on that distrust and rolled out the red carpet for developers. And Google later followed suit.

Microsoft will have to work twice as hard for twice as long to regain even a fraction of the good will they wasted.

There's no shortcut to that. There is no shortcut for establishing a good track record.

Microsoft should have stayed with DOS. Can you imagine a smartphone running DOS? That would be amazing for DOS developers.

 

[ScottAB]

I had a T-Mobile PocketPC a long time ago, that was my first experience with a mobile WinOS. It worked for me. I kept it until I excitedly bought a HD7 with WinPhone 7.0 in Nov '10. It was an improvement over what I had, but not impressive. In Jan '13 I bought a Lumia 920, I returned 13 days later because it was missing two apps I considered vital, my bank (present for WP7 but still not WP8) and MLB (ditto). I have an iPhone - yes it is a toy, however, the app experience (breadth, functionality, sheer numbers) blows away WinPhone to this day. I will keep my unlocked iPhone 5 for travels, but will most likely migrate back to WinPhone because it offers the business functions I desire.

 

[XXNUZ]

As a WP7 user, I still don't feel the app gap closing but I see it in places like WPCentral. I am planning to stick with WP for my next phone (hopefully a 925) because of what I see happening

Sent from my purple velociraptor running Windows Phone 7.8

 

[rodan01]

BlackBerry is not a good comparison. That company has a lot of troubles and doesn't have the complementary assets that Microsoft has to build a platform.

1. There are a lot of Android OEMs with minimal differentiation. MS would be the "Android app OEM" with more freedom to entice users with custom features.

2. The Android ecosystem is too fragmented 30%-40%,of the Android phones can't access Google services. With X and amazon this will increase. And you have iOS too. Developers can't depend on Google services without losing billions of customers.

3. I suppose MS will do better job than other implementations built by smaller companies.

4. If native apps are better there is still a good incentive for native development.

5. I think users prefer apps rather than look and feel. That's why WP has 2% of market share.

 

[k0de]

You've gotten awfully personal here. After all Microsoft is famous for releasing something and discontinuing it shortly after.

A few examples: Zune Player , Kin phone , SPOT Smartwatch, WP7 and so on.



That's not true. Things might change. The only thing that has changed so far is Microsoft looking for a person to make Bing usable in non-US countries. I'll believe it when I see it.

My bad. I get excited and carried away at times.

Things changed already at MSFT.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

You've gotten awfully personal here. After all Microsoft is famous for releasing something and discontinuing it shortly after.

A few examples: Zune Player , Kin phone , SPOT Smartwatch, WP7 and so on.

You might consider adding "Origami" to that list. Microsoft was making an awkward attempt at a viral campaign for this "world changing device" UMPC form-factor which fell flat. There were only a handful of over-priced underpowered devices that demonstrated just how little Microsoft's vision of mobile computing had changed since their foray into Windows tablets in late '99/early '00.

 

[k0de]

No the app gap will not close because the startup mobile developers target iOS exclusive 80% of the time, Android the other 20%. Windows OSes are literally frozen out for various reasons(poor APIs, low user base, hatred towards MS).

True for startup apps. But not existing apps. And for how long will this hold ground?

 

[WillysJeepMan]

True for startup apps. But not existing apps. And for how long will this hold ground?

For existing apps, developers are under even more pressure to focus on iOS and Android. Competition is fierce in those ecosystems. Manpower is always at a deficit. These developers are not going to risk diverting resource to create a WP version of their apps at the expense of refining and enhancing their iOS and Android versions.

It comes down to, and always has come down to, the install base of WP users, Microsoft's track record of (lack of) commitment, and return on investment.

 

[k0de]

For existing apps, developers are under even more pressure to focus on iOS and Android. Competition is fierce in those ecosystems. Manpower is always at a deficit. These developers are not going to risk diverting resource to create a WP version of their apps at the expense of refining and enhancing their iOS and Android versions.

It comes down to, and always has come down to, the install base of WP users, Microsoft's track record of (lack of) commitment, and return on investment.

ROI is the bottom line.

IOS dev can continue developing for iOS. And Droids dev like wise.

But Where is the lost when deploying a WP app? A WP team of dev perhaps are more productive other than Droid or iOS dev's.

Please elaborate how there is a risk of a lost on ROI by developing for WP?

 

[btgusto]

Only way the gap closes is if devs stop creating apps for ios and android and focus on windows. The other platforms already have a million app lead on us. When we get one official app that they already have they get new apps that we wont get for months if at all. Apps rarely get simultaneous releases on all three platforms (blackberry's out ;P)

I do believe the rate at which windows apps and official apps entering the store will increase. we currently have about 250,000+ apps right? Well I believe the next 250,000 will come at a faster rate that the first quarter million. and the subsequent 250,000 will come even faster at an exponential growth chart.

But we won't catch ios. Apple has to fall flat on its face for that to happen. Or the "cool" factor needs to shift like it did for Facebook and Instagram. At one point Facebook was for everyone but then kids shifted their focus to Instagram because they saw Facebook as for only parents and grandparents or just older people in general. Windows needs that type of shift

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Never. Your post tells me you have never accomplished anything in life. From relationship to a career.

My friend. If WP is to succeed they must be persistence.

Persistence is the key to success. Any successful individual will tell you that.

You know you've lost the argument and the audience when you result to personal attacks to make a point, comment on content not on the contributor. :straight: I doubt you think of him as your friend either, friends don't attack each other for no reason.:wink:

 

[k0de]

You know you've lost the argument and the audience when you result to personal attacks to make a point, comment on content not on the contributor. :straight:

Last argument.

Disney is doing fine. EA Sports is doing fine. Gameloft is doing fine.

ROI are fine.

So what is your point?

 

[btgusto]

So why by a windows phone if you going to run android app on it.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

ROI is the bottom line.

IOS dev can continue developing for iOS. And Droids dev like wise.

But Where is the lost when deploying a WP app?

Please elaborate how there is a risk of a lost on ROI by developing for WP?

Developers only have so much time that they can work. For every hour they spend working an a WP version of their application that is one hour less to work on iOS or Android. If there are 2 different developers "A" and "B" with successful but competitive products on iOS and Android, and developer "A" redirects resource to create a WP version of their app but develop "B" stays focused on iOS and Android, then over time developer "B" will have a greater likelihood of increasing their marketshare vs. developer "A".

Depending upon who you believe, WP makes up for only 3% of all smartphones. 3%. For purposes of this discussion, that means that 97% are Android or iOS.

For 100,000,000 devices, that means that a developer who develops apps for iOS and Android can reach 97,000,000 devices. But developing for WP will result in only reaching 3,000,000. It is not wise to expend the effort to port an app from iOS and/or Android to WP.

A WP team of dev perhaps are more productive other than Droid or iOS dev's.

That's generally not true. Microsoft has been tinkering with APIs on their mobile platforms since the introduction of WP8. That is not necessarily a problem unless your application uses the APIs that are changing. That requires additional regression testing and tweaking. It becomes a serious headache for what is already going to be minimal return.

 

[k0de]

Developers only have so much time that they can work. For every hour they spend working an a WP version of their application that is one hour less to work on iOS or Android. If there are 2 different developers "A" and "B" with successful but competitive products on iOS and Android, and developer "A" redirects resource to create a WP version of their app but develop "B" stays focused on iOS and Android, then over time developer "B" will have a greater likelihood of increasing their marketshare vs. developer "A".

Depending upon who you believe, WP makes up for only 3% of all smartphones. 3%. For purposes of this discussion, that means that 97% are Android or iOS.

For 100,000,000 devices, that means that a developer who develops apps for iOS and Android can reach 97,000,000 devices. But developing for WP will result in only reaching 3,000,000. It is not wise to expend the effort to port an app from iOS and/or Android to WP.




That's generally not true. Microsoft has been tinkering with APIs on their mobile platforms since the introduction of WP8. That is not necessarily a problem unless your application uses the APIs that are changing. That requires additional regression testing and tweaking. It becomes a serious headache for what is already going to be minimal return.

True indeed.

But developer A can spend his lifetime in developing for Android and iOS.

And developers B can work on WP only.

Why mix and match?

As a boss you must separate the three.

Developers A = iOS
Developers B = Android
Developers C = Windows Phone.

You don't have to be a genius. It is self explanatory. The least productive team will be scrapped.

Try it.

Let us at Windows Phone know your outcome.

 

[Pierre Blackwell]

Why would a dev focus on WP??? The key is universal apps. True there are more apps on iOS and Android but of those apps which ones are used on OSX or on a chrome book? This is where MSFT can balance the scales. If a dev knows they can generate one app for all devices that might be the incentive. I don't know what MLB app you used on iOS but there are a few that I love that to me are as comparable. I will agree that banking apps are one of the biggest areas of discernment. Myself using NFCU I can attest to it, but using the actual website isn't a bad thing either. I never really gave bing a second thought before WP, but its all I use now, even on my desktop and I love the bing apps which rival any apps of their kind.

 

[EC Translating Services]

I think I should explain myself here, it might be a little offtopic, but I'll do it anyway.

In 2002 I bought my first Microsoft phone, the Orange SPV. Since then I have only used Microsoft devices, with one exception, the original Motorola RAZR for a short period of time. I owned a ton of phones, from the SPV 9000 to the HP iPAQ Voice Messenger to the HTC HD just to mention a few examples. Then Microsoft decided to discontinue Windows Mobile, and even though I was shocked about the featureless successor Windows Phone 7, I bought a Samsung Omnia 7. I moved from a small computer to a smartphone with by far the most limited feature set available on every OS.

Back then I hoped things would improve fast. I bought a Lumia 800 and a Omnia W during this time. All we got was resizeable tiles and copy and paste before they discontinued it.

Windows Phone 8 was from an user-perspective an exact copy of Windows Phone 7.8, only with features missing like FM radio (reintroduced later in a GDR update with great fanfare) and without Zune. Still, I bought the HTC 8X (which I think is a great phone actually) and later the Lumia 620 which I handed to my mother after a while.

After all these years using Windows Phone right now the first real update is released with Windows Phone 8.1. An update that still has less features than Windows Mobile had. Of course, Windows Mobile needed a refresh, it needed to be made touch friendly, but Microsoft really just dumbed it down, and it's still suffering from that.

You might now understand why I don't think Windows Phone is new and refreshing, I think it's old and stuck. You might now understand why I'm tired of waiting for the big thing to happen. I just did it for too long.

I totally agree with you. As a former faithful user of Windows Mobile i am ad best disappointed at how, tiles aside, Microsoft has involved with this OS. I don't think many understand how much flexibility the OS has lost from the old 6.5 mobile version to the 7/8/8.1 migration. Things like groups of apps, registry editing, file management, UI customization were standard features in Win mobile. Like you i had a bunch of them. All of the Tytn family for a start, then a bunch of others (including an ETEN 500). If i understand the need for Microsoft to innovate and start from 0 with a new platform, i don't understand why not to include all the good things Win Mobile had since day 1. When Android came out Win Mobile was still a decent OS for me. I didn't look for an Android till Microsoft dropped support for the mobile platform. Microsoft is selling an OS that's sub par with a modern UI but the OS itself is not even comparable to the beauty of the old Windows Mobile 6.5. It even had a defrag. Talking about "platform standardization"....you could go from your desktop Windows to the mobile version and the functionalities were the same. What they did with WP is beyond me....not to talk about how slow they are in innovating. Android was more or less good after two years (in the sense it had most issues fixed and started to look decent after that time, before it was sad crap). WP has is going for 5 years soon and still misses basic functions. Each time they add a function Win Mobile had already and Android has had for years, they sell it like the next best think after sliced bread. They forget how ahead they were and how backwards they are now. Depressing.

 

[XXNUZ]

True indeed.

But developer A can spend his lifetime in developing for Android and iOS.

And developers B can work on WP only.

Why mix and match?

As a boss you must separate the three.

Developers A = iOS
Developers B = Android
Developers C = Windows Phone.

You don't have to be a genius. It is self explanatory. The least productive team will be scrapped.

Try it.

Let us at Windows Phone know your outcome.

I personally develop for both WP and Android (I hate Apple). The two platforms are actually very similar to develop for and should be easy for developers to switch between. However, my Android apps do end up looking like WP apps.





Sent from my purple velociraptor running Windows Phone 7.8

 

[k0de]

I personally develop for both WP and Android (I hate Apple). The two platforms are actually very similar to develop for and should be easy for developers to switch between. However, my Android apps do end up looking like WP apps.





Sent from my purple velociraptor running Windows Phone 7.8

Thanks for developing for Windows Phone.

How do you like it? Kind regards in your development.

I am working on my first Windows Phone app.

Give us a link.

 

[pgg101]

Having just come from BlackBerry, I can tell you the app situation is much better and improving on Windows Phone. BB10 has to rely on its Android Runtime to make up for its terrible native app catalog. In fact, they are partnering with Amazon to make the Amazon Appstore an official part of the next major OS release. BB has conceded defeat in trying to develop a competitive native app ecosystem and thrown its existing native app developers under the bus.

Microsoft is in a much better position to attract developers and grow its WP app ecosystem. It's been a slow and difficult journey, but I think their persistence is paying off.

Though I am committed to trying out this Lumia 822 for at least 30 days, I can see myself staying with WP well beyond that.
Posted from my Nokia Lumia 822 using Tapatalk

As much as I'd like to see another player, I do think WP will fail. Just go into any store, they push iOS or Android. WP is market share is non existent in Canada. The Amazon deal was probably the best alternative they had so they can focus on enterprise. While I like native apps, in the grand scheme of things, as long as my Google Maps continues to work, then the Android runtime was well worth it in the end.

Posted via the WPC App for Android on BlackBerry Z30