07-13-2014 07:30 AM
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  1. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    It's time to face facts folks....

    Microsoft doesn't know how to sell anything.

    They refuse to compete against all other platforms because they believe they don't have to.

    They believe Xbox will save WP and they are dead wrong. The vast majority of people who use cell phones don't own a Xbox 🎮 and truly aren't interested in one. They have used a gamers console to lure people to buy their phones,and while they may get some to go for it,the rest of the world won't.

    Microsoft has even bigger issues than miserable WP sales...they are losing money on just about everything mobile and Xbox as well.

    Let's not forget that Microsoft has alienated core users on it's own products too...

    As long as those in charge at Microsoft remain in charge,they will continue to lose market share with their products. Their vision is not what the world is asking for and they refuse to listen. They continually cut off their noses to spite their faces because they believe they are better than everyone else when in fact they really aren't.

    A lot of issues with their software has come to light recently,in how they do their OEM's , how many bugs in their software being released on WP,ect...all has ruined consumer confidence in their products.

    I see folks trying their best to make excuses for their failure,because they want to believe so badly that WP will overtake the phone market......

    They need new management,they need a Steve Jobs,someone that has real vision,and who can inspire it's people to do great things,and until they do,they will continue to remain behind all other platforms.

    Gates is gone, Jobs has passed...look who runs the companies and who is doing a better job..

    The time for excuses is over
    07-03-2014 09:56 AM
  2. tgp's Avatar
    I disagree with your disagreement.
    And I disagree with your disagreement! 😊 I'm with Laura. I see as many Windows Phone ads as any other phone, and way more Surface ads than for any other tablet. Consumers just don't want them.
    FinancialP likes this.
    07-03-2014 10:01 AM
  3. Ian Too's Avatar
    I think the reason they're so anti Windows Phone is they recognise how strong the product is and are threatened. Once you've invested in an ecosystem, it's threatening to be presented with an alternative because it implies you've made an error, a classic case of cognitive dissonance - something I should say we are all subject to, btw.

    If Windows Phone had been an iOS clone like Android, then the heat wouldn't have been quite so intense, but because MS took a fresh approach it has a double hurdle. The first is that the iOS paradigm isn't very effective on WP and this presents 'experts' with a learning curve they resent because they feel they know what is good. Far more challenging though is WP's difference implies that the entire approach to a touch sensitive mobile UI taken by Apple and Google is not the most efficient, that (and brace yourself...) Steve Jobs was wrong. Can't you feel the earth quaking?

    To imply that the most highly respected tech gurus had a failure of imagination is heresy of the highest order and there is very little that inspires ire more than telling an expert they are wrong. Ignaz Semmelweis comes to mind.

    This is not the complete explanation for WP's failure to take over the world, but goes some way to explain the irrational hostility.
    a5cent, Ntropy99, Cryio and 1 others like this.
    07-03-2014 10:34 AM
  4. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    I don't feel that advertising is the primary problem. I see a lot of ads for Windows Phone and other Microsoft products. Anyone know the average age of these tech journalists? They publish articles based on statistics but do not offer any analysis on why the figures may be lower. The problem with most of these people is they see Microsoft as the company who dominated the PC market in the 1990s and held back innovation. Windows became so common that you rarely found anyone running any other OS and as a result and because the OS was fairly open and flexible as far as apps are concerned, it was often targeted by immature youngsters with viruses and other malware. They see Google as the new company that was finally able to defeat Microsoft and, as such, have loyalty towards them instead of Microsoft. Google's actions to shut out Windows Phone by not supporting them despite a major loss of advertising revenue also contribute to Microsoft's inability to gain market share as consumers are forced to pick sides and many rely on tech people or sales people who are supposed to be knowledgeable. These people will cite the app gap and usage statistics in order to convince less knowledgeable people that Windows Phone is inferior despite the OS being technologically superior in many ways. These less knowledgeable people typically have no need for most, if any, of these missing apps and just suffer from all kinds of problems with their Android phones like slowness, crashes, and glitches, because they have no idea how to fix them.
    I feel that Apple is a completely different story. People who typically prefer Apple products do so because it is a status symbol. However, there are enough people who are not like that and if it weren't were Google, Microsoft would be fine.
    07-03-2014 10:35 AM
  5. nycny's Avatar
    Kind of thinking about joining the abandon Windows Phone crowd.
    I have been with Windows Mobile almost from the beginning. Started with Casio.
    I have always been amazed with the prospect of an all in one device.
    Promises, disappointment. Repeat, rinse, recycle. Over and again.
    Every time I expect more, I got less.
    Not feeling all that great right now.
    Trolls please post your usual bs.
    Mavee Shah likes this.
    07-03-2014 10:50 AM
  6. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    Kind of thinking about joining the abandon Windows Phone crowd.
    I have been with Windows Mobile almost from the beginning. Started with Casio.
    I have always been amazed with the prospect of an all in one device.
    Promises, disappointment. Repeat, rinse, recycle. Over and again.
    Every time I expect more, I got less.
    Not feeling all that great right now.
    Trolls please post your usual bs.
    You should make the best decision for you and more power to you for doing so. However, by suggesting that you will get troll responses to your post, that is a form of trolling in and of itself. Why even go there?
    a5cent likes this.
    07-03-2014 11:01 AM
  7. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    I agree with posters that feel advertising is a problem. I really like the new Surface Pro 3 ad and wish a similar ad would circulate for Windows Phone. The problem is that there is no current flagship so it is unlikely that there will be a meaningful advertising blitz until the fall if and when the McLaren is released. It seems that the purchase of Nokia, while perhaps a good strategy in the long run, has stalled the momentum of Windows Phone for the moment. I am used to the bias of the tech media so that is nothing new and should be expected to continue. The only thing that will change it is if consumers embrace WP--then the tech media will latch on and follow the trend.
    07-03-2014 11:05 AM
  8. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Its not so much knock your socks for me its more the effectiveness of their communication to their target market.

    Samsung have got an ad running on most major tv networks highlighting the durability/waterproof fun factor of their S5.
    Do they really have to spend money on advertising with such dominant market share here in Aus?
    Not really in my opinion but what it does do is saturate the mental picture of most people when it comes to choosing their next phone.

    Its iphone vs S5
    You won't even consider a 1520 because the general public has never heard of it here in Australia.
    Well yes, but generally those "knock your socks off" ads is how Apple so effectively catches the attention of their target demographic. I can't remember the last bad Apple ad that failed to do this.
    07-03-2014 12:02 PM
  9. Geddeeee's Avatar
    Kind of thinking about joining the abandon Windows Phone crowd.
    I have been with Windows Mobile almost from the beginning. Started with Casio.
    I have always been amazed with the prospect of an all in one device.
    Promises, disappointment. Repeat, rinse, recycle. Over and again.
    Every time I expect more, I got less.
    Not feeling all that great right now.
    Trolls please post your usual bs.
    You're obviously not satisfied, so switch... Good luck!!!!
    07-03-2014 12:02 PM
  10. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    It's time to face facts folks....

    Microsoft doesn't know how to sell anything.

    They refuse to compete against all other platforms because they believe they don't have to.

    They believe Xbox will save WP and they are dead wrong. The vast majority of people who use cell phones don't own a Xbox �� and truly aren't interested in one. They have used a gamers console to lure people to buy their phones,and while they may get some to go for it,the rest of the world won't.

    Microsoft has even bigger issues than miserable WP sales...they are losing money on just about everything mobile and Xbox as well.

    Let's not forget that Microsoft has alienated core users on it's own products too...

    As long as those in charge at Microsoft remain in charge,they will continue to lose market share with their products. Their vision is not what the world is asking for and they refuse to listen. They continually cut off their noses to spite their faces because they believe they are better than everyone else when in fact they really aren't.

    A lot of issues with their software has come to light recently,in how they do their OEM's , how many bugs in their software being released on WP,ect...all has ruined consumer confidence in their products.

    I see folks trying their best to make excuses for their failure,because they want to believe so badly that WP will overtake the phone market......

    They need new management,they need a Steve Jobs,someone that has real vision,and who can inspire it's people to do great things,and until they do,they will continue to remain behind all other platforms.

    Gates is gone, Jobs has passed...look who runs the companies and who is doing a better job..

    The time for excuses is over
    Microsoft's seemingly putting their hardware devices on the back burner of their cloud based services, I've said this before in other forums that Mr. Satya Nadella's philosophy for Microsoft has increased their share prices yes, but its beginning to lean towards making the company more like Facebook with apps and services that everyone wants on their phone/tablet and less like Apple with the marriage of in house hardware and software. If Nadella could get another 100 million OneDrive and Office 365 subscripts he'd gladly axe Xbox, Surface or Nokia. Hardware is not his concern.
    Sonu K likes this.
    07-03-2014 12:10 PM
  11. nycny's Avatar
    Thanks for your support
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-03-2014 12:11 PM
  12. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    I agree with posters that feel advertising is a problem. I really like the new Surface Pro 3 ad and wish a similar ad would circulate for Windows Phone. The problem is that there is no current flagship so it is unlikely that there will be a meaningful advertising blitz until the fall if and when the McLaren is released. It seems that the purchase of Nokia, while perhaps a good strategy in the long run, has stalled the momentum of Windows Phone for the moment. I am used to the bias of the tech media so that is nothing new and should be expected to continue. The only thing that will change it is if consumers embrace WP--then the tech media will latch on and follow the trend.
    While they're waiting for the McLaren, Apple and Samsung are putting millions of 5S's and S5's into everyone's pockets. Microsoft has amazing Nokia flagship handsets right now they should be pushing (Icon/930, 1520 and 1020). They should be trying to get these phones into the consumer's hands right now, this strategy of waiting for a future phone is KILLING their already minuscule market share in the US, China and Germany. Not only that but the McLaren is not even the most talked about future smartphone, everyone is enamored with the iPhone 6 and heck even the new Amazon phone is creating a bigger media splash than any WP handset has up to this point.
    theefman likes this.
    07-03-2014 12:17 PM
  13. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Not to mention the outright product placement in some TV shows and movies. Whenever Holmes or Watson pick up their tablet on the US TV show, Elementary, it's always a Surface.

    It's a start.
    Well yes and no, product placement is best suited for products that the consumer is already aware of and is familiar with. Think of all the Coca-Cola and Pepsi cans you see in movies/TV shows. With a WP that hardly anyone is familiar with it largely goes unnoticed by those outside the tech crowd. I'm always pointing out WP's and Surfaces in shows like Hawaii 5-0 to my friends who'd otherwise would never have noticed and/or cared.
    07-03-2014 12:24 PM
  14. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    And I disagree with your disagreement! �� I'm with Laura. I see as many Windows Phone ads as any other phone, and way more Surface ads than for any other tablet. Consumers just don't want them.
    C'mon we all have to stop being delusional Microsoft apologists here, if we really care about Windows Phone and want it to ever become a viable and established 3rd smartphone contender we have to critique and question what's creating problems for our platform. I want more app developer support and how do we get that? We need more people to adopt Windows Phone and how do we get that? We need better Windows Phone advertising. It's clearly not been up to snuff in the US and the market data supports this as valid and fair criticism to make.
    07-03-2014 12:29 PM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    C'mon we all have to stop being delusional Microsoft apologists here, if we really care about Windows Phone and want it to ever become a viable and established 3rd smartphone contender we have to critique and question what's creating problems for our platform. I want more app developer support and how do we get that? We need more people to adopt Windows Phone and how do we get that? We need better Windows Phone advertising. It's clearly not been up to snuff in the US and the market data supports this as valid and fair criticism to make.
    I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I was just saying that I see plenty of ads for Microsoft products, including WP. I'm not saying they're the best ads around, but they're there.

    I'm by no means a delusional Microsoft apologist. For the record, it's my opinion of some of the users on this forum. I'm very critical of WP. I think it falls short in many areas compared to its direct competitors.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-03-2014 12:35 PM
  16. colinkiama's Avatar
    its very easy actually, irs not that the world doesn't like wp, its the US. they should focus in places where the money is in europe and india. in places like italy, wp has a higher market share than ios and in india, wp is the second most popular os. microsoft should go where the money is because no matter what they do, wp will never do well in the US.
    07-03-2014 12:39 PM
  17. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I was just saying that I see plenty of ads for Microsoft products, including WP. I'm not saying they're the best ads around, but they're there.

    I'm by no means a delusional Microsoft apologist. For the record, it's my opinion of some of the users on this forum. I'm very critical of WP. I think it falls short in many areas compared to its direct competitors.
    I apologize I didn't mean that to sound as rude as it did, I agree with the argument that there's windows phone ads to speak of but the problem with them (as I addressed in the OP) is that they're anemic, and forgettable. They don't stick with you like the Apple "Go Chicken Fat Go" ad. Microsoft needs those types of ads that stick with you and to some degree gets stuck in your head.
    07-03-2014 12:41 PM
  18. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    its very easy actually, irs not that the world doesn't like wp, its the US. they should focus in places where the money is in europe and india. in places like italy, wp has a higher market share than ios and in india, wp is the second most popular os. microsoft should go where the money is because no matter what they do, wp will never do well in the US.
    No! You don't and can't abandon the top 3 consumer markets if you want to be successful long term. The US, China and Germany markets are paramount in modern international big business. Consider the size of the US and China in terms of population that's way too much money for Microsoft to turn their backs to.
    07-03-2014 12:44 PM
  19. prasath1234's Avatar
    I don't feel that advertising is the primary problem. I see a lot of ads for Windows Phone and other Microsoft products. Anyone know the average age of these tech journalists? They publish articles based on statistics but do not offer any analysis on why the figures may be lower. The problem with most of these people is they see Microsoft as the company who dominated the PC market in the 1990s and held back innovation. Windows became so common that you rarely found anyone running any other OS and as a result and because the OS was fairly open and flexible as far as apps are concerned, it was often targeted by immature youngsters with viruses and other malware. They see Google as the new company that was finally able to defeat Microsoft and, as such, have loyalty towards them instead of Microsoft. Google's actions to shut out Windows Phone by not supporting them despite a major loss of advertising revenue also contribute to Microsoft's inability to gain market share as consumers are forced to pick sides and many rely on tech people or sales people who are supposed to be knowledgeable. These people will cite the app gap and usage statistics in order to convince less knowledgeable people that Windows Phone is inferior despite the OS being technologically superior in many ways. These less knowledgeable people typically have no need for most, if any, of these missing apps and just suffer from all kinds of problems with their Android phones like slowness, crashes, and glitches, because they have no idea how to fix them.
    I feel that Apple is a completely different story. People who typically prefer Apple products do so because it is a status symbol. However, there are enough people who are not like that and if it weren't were Google, Microsoft would be fine.
    Exactly if it not for android people will get only Windows phone atleast in India.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    07-03-2014 01:09 PM
  20. Torcher Death's Avatar
    No! You don't and can't abandon the top 3 consumer markets if you want to be successful long term. The US, China and Germany markets are paramount in modern international big business. Consider the size of the US and China in terms of population that's way too much money for Microsoft to turn their backs to.
    US - well a hipster country following the herd mentality... not all, but most
    China - make cheaper replicas
    Germany - Don't know much about the market there, so no comments
    07-03-2014 01:10 PM
  21. Sonu K's Avatar
    True! Educating customers about Windows Phone ecosystem is largely the part where they are lacking, every OS has it's high and low end selling points, they just need to spread the news. When it comes to marketing, I know that they are bad since the only popular ad for Windows Phone was this:
    This was a clever way to present themselves, clearly distinguishing Windows Phone from others.

    Consider the image which Google presents when it comes to a user. Everyone thinks of Google as the most innovative company, blindly following the services they provide, just because they think "they are innovative". When Sergey or Larry gives a speech, or when they participate in a public discussion, it adds to value of personal touch they offer. A personal touch or a heroic innovation (Apple, Steve Jobs) lasts longer than words "Modern apps", because simply speaking words are cheap. Now that they are really doing some great work with their OS and Mobile targeting, including support to developers for advertising, they should promote their services with more personal touch. Meanwhile, Satya Nadella can't present the same image as these people do( should do!).
    Err...This was a pure NOKIA ad..Most probably they recently replaced the NOKIA logo with the MS logo at the end.
    07-03-2014 01:19 PM
  22. Torcher Death's Avatar
    MS reallly needs to work on fixing the current bugs & make speedier releases, & seriously start hiring better marketing managers.
    We know you have a lot of throw away cash, spend it wisely on advertising in the developing markets rather than relying on the carriers & OEMs too much.
    Why not try a little bit of reverse psychology, when the rest of the world starts adapting to WP, am sure US would be quite compelled to as well. But, thats only if you can manage get your act together & start releasing some really cool flagship phones before you lose your potential customers to the new hippy iPhone 6 or an S6.
    Sonu K likes this.
    07-03-2014 01:20 PM
  23. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    US - well a hipster country following the herd mentality... not all, but most
    China - make cheaper replicas
    Germany - Don't know much about the market there, so no comments
    The US is all about what's stylish and/or cool. The exclusivity of Windows Phone and differentiation from Android and iOS can be something Microsoft pushes when advertising WP. They need to make WP that trendy new phone, I made a suggestion on another forum that Microsoft should hire Seattle Seahawks CB Richard Sherman whom has a Masters in Mass Communications from Stanford. Like him or not he's the type of celebrity spokesperson MS needs and the type of spokesperson that would get the attention of practically every male 18-40 in the US. I've always thought Microsoft should make a commercial with Sherman yelling something at Cortana with Cortana replying with witty and humorous comebacks. Something that displays the technology of Cortana and at the same time is memorable because of the humor and famous spokesperson. These no name actors they're hiring for the WP commercials just don't cut it. Samsung proved this celebrity spokesperson strategy with LeBron James, the Galaxy owes much of its popularity in the US to promotional efforts involving the NBA.

    I was saddened to see Microsoft blew an amazing WP marketing platform in the 2014 World Cup by not showing a single WP ad, they had a massive international platform to push WP on and all they ran were generic non product specific Microsoft plugs.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    07-03-2014 02:32 PM
  24. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    MS reallly needs to work on fixing the current bugs & make speedier releases, & seriously start hiring better marketing managers.
    We know you have a lot of throw away cash, spend it wisely on advertising in the developing markets rather than relying on the carriers & OEMs too much.
    Why not try a little bit of reverse psychology, when the rest of the world starts adapting to WP, am sure US would be quite compelled to as well. But, thats only if you can manage get your act together & start releasing some really cool flagship phones before you lose your potential customers to the new hippy iPhone 6 or an S6.
    I'm not at all worried about the technical aspects of the company, the software engineering at Microsoft has always been world class. The only problem they've ever had has always been marketing competence and decent PR. Many tech reviews have called the Nokia 1520 the "best smartphone on the market right now" yet how many average mainstream consumers in the US do you think have any idea what a Nokia Lumia 1520 is? Trust me it's not much, every time someone sees the start screen on my Icon they ask if it's some type of special Android phone. I'd love for Microsoft's marketing division to be present when questions like that are asked about Microsoft products.
    07-03-2014 02:40 PM
  25. mmcpher's Avatar
    My 1520 is my first WP, but my Z30 is my. . . . I can't keep track of how many Blackberries I've had and loved going back to my first smartphones, so I bring that perspective to the thread. Blackberry was a novelty to the tech press, then a phenomenon, then an institution, then a slowing behemoth, then in a dead stall and now. . . . a kind of curious oddity by virtue of its insistence in soldiering on. The Tech Press, IMHO, has long been inbedded (sp.) with IOS and/or Android, that's where the most eyeballs are, the most clicks. Blackberry was the **** of jokes and dancing on its grave (even at launch events) was a means of currying favor and for the Tech press to demonstrate loyalty to the market leaders.

    Anti-Windows bias, in contrast to the mildly malignant indifference to Blackberry, goes way, way back to the early ages of mass personal computing. Not an easy history to negate, however shiny or clever your ad campaign is. I don't think WP ads are bad, its just that in the US at least, they are all but invisible. I take some heart that MS is having some penetration with their Surface ads, so they are capable of attracting attention when motivated and funded. MS has resources that Blackberry does not, to counteract negative coverage and to withstand slow sales. I am not altogether sold on the value of ad campaigns for smartphones anyway. Sure, they help around the edges, but it seems a strange market, self-informed and largely driven through carrier-connections in carrier stores. Apple and Android still have the run of almost every smartphone retail outlet in the US. The carrier stores are always pushing either a certain Android or the Iphone and are all-but-hiding the other alternatives. I think the Lumia line has laid the groundwork and the 8.1 OS and beyond are more than competitive whereby MS can now bring some of its economic might to start making inroads. I am also hopeful that the new Blackberry models coming out by the end of the year will also open a few eyes.

    Android may be a juggernaut and Apple, well whenever they get around to releasing the My Big Fat Iphone the trained tech press will sit up and bray like donkeys and that will use up most of the oxygen. Truth for me is that Apple has been as dull as dishwater for a long time now but some see that as a by-product of their having already attained perfection. Google and Apple represent huge, tectonic elemental economic forces and can not be lightly or quickly moved from their predominating positions. But their tremendous accumulated inertia does not render them impossibly impervious. It is an enormous undertaking and challenge and beyond shiny tv spots and jingles. Microsoft has always played a masterful long game.
    07-03-2014 03:57 PM
206 1234 ...

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