07-13-2014 07:30 AM
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  1. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    I also remember all the "call failed" issues with many people who switched to AT&T for the original iPhone.

    The Android ads for Verizon succeeded, since the OG Droid was a worthy device for Verizon users who wanted an iPhone but didn't want AT&T. T-Mobile had the first Android devices, but T-Mobile also had a terrible network at the time (worse than that of AT&T).

    As for BlackBerry, they had the Storm and Storm 2 as Verizon exclusives, but both of those were buggy, glitchy devices that drove more Verizon customers to Android than anything else.

    Carrier exclusives no longer work here in the US, since most people are not going to switch carriers for a device.
    Oh no I'm not advocating carrier exclusives by any means, I'm just saying it's not necessarily an issue that can or should stop Microsoft from pushing their phones more.
    07-04-2014 12:50 AM
  2. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    According to who?

    Go on any home theater forum and ask about it. You'll get laughed off of it the minute you ask.

    Your streamed compressed Hd content is full of artifacts and looks crappy on most Quality screens,unless you are the type who runs their display in torch mode....or on some budget tv that is not been calibrated.

    You see..you really don't know what you are discussing here....There are quite a few good folks here in the USA that have invested a ton of money into our home systems and actually know the difference between a good picture and a crappy one,same for audio and the difference between them as well...and there are some of us who would like to use something besides a iPhone or iPad in our systems,but can't because of the issues myself and others have complained about....

    I would love to see WP exceed in this market,but know that unless things really change,it won't....there is a glimmer of hope left..just a glimmer now that the music app developers are Ina better place to go forward,but it has a long way to go.

    Have you ever wondered why Direct..Dish..Comcast..Charter..don't have apps on WP? It's not because of market share...this I know....that's just a easy answer..it's about the way video and audio are done on WP......and until that aspect changes...the real audio and video techies won't get behind it..and brother..that is where the real money is....��

    Why eelse would Apple be courting the Studios and record labels as the have been all these years.....sure you can stream from iTunes...over 2billion downloads and climbing..but there is another reason as well...they never once forced any music lover or video liver to suffer through what us WP folks have had to ....and have always provided a way for those of us who are into high fidelity and HD to watch and listen and store our collection...something Microsoft hasn't tried to exploit...we've gotten a game console........sad

    As to all the rest...have a good 4th of July...where ever you are ��
    Okay so you're telling me you still carry around a CD Walkman and your CD collection because of the negligible quality difference? Same with HD content direct download, the quality differences are negligible to the mainstream consumer, heck most people can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. But as compression tech advances the differences will only serve to become more and more unnoticeably small. Couple that with the advances in SSD's and I can guarantee the next gen consoles won't even have disc drives. Large capacity SSD's with ridiculous read/write speeds are the future. Ask any PC gamer worth his salt.
    07-04-2014 12:55 AM
  3. Maitrikkataria's Avatar
    Yes, my point is to illustrate a good example of a clever advertisement though.
    07-04-2014 02:05 AM
  4. jeff armstrong1's Avatar
    YOU ARE KINDA RIGHT not ?
    These are just two examples, Bing or Google "Windows Phone" or "Windows Phone news" and you'll find at least 4-5 of these types of articles PER WEEK. I've gave up on any hopes of Android using journalists being objective, the thing that irks me is that the clear problem with Windows Phone in markets like the US, is absolutely terrible, anemic, forgettable and boring advertising of the platform by Microsoft up to this point. All while Apple has that brilliant & memorable "Go Chicken Fat Go" ad and Samsung has their fitness and water proof ads running non-stop here in the US across all channels and mediums.

    The iPhone only exists because Microsoft had yet to enter the market. Period ! I can't believe that the marketing geniuses at Apple didn't
    capitalize on the one and only real campaign blockbuster consideration, right in front of them 1trick.jpg


    Call it what it is an Amazingly Over Priced " One Trick Pony "

    Given the same time in market as the iPhone, any of the very fairly priced Windows 8.0+ Phones will most certainly be the demise of the Apple experiment. And truth be told, I for the most part love ponies.
    07-04-2014 03:24 AM
  5. Chregu's Avatar
    YOU ARE KINDA RIGHT not ?
    These are just two examples, Bing or Google "Windows Phone" or "Windows Phone news" and you'll find at least 4-5 of these types of articles PER WEEK. I've gave up on any hopes of Android using journalists being objective, the thing that irks me is that the clear problem with Windows Phone in markets like the US, is absolutely terrible, anemic, forgettable and boring advertising of the platform by Microsoft up to this point. All while Apple has that brilliant & memorable "Go Chicken Fat Go" ad and Samsung has their fitness and water proof ads running non-stop here in the US across all channels and mediums.

    The iPhone only exists because Microsoft had yet to enter the market. Period ! I can't believe that the marketing geniuses at Apple didn't
    capitalize on the one and only real campaign blockbuster consideration, right in front of them Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1trick.JPG 
Views:	104 
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    Call it what it is an Amazingly Over Priced " One Trick Pony "

    Given the same time in market as the iPhone, any of the very fairly priced Windows 8.0+ Phones will most certainly be the demise of the Apple experiment. And truth be told, I for the most part love ponies.
    I didn't understand anything of that.
    FinancialP likes this.
    07-04-2014 06:20 AM
  6. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    Marketing is not a key factor in the struggles of the Window Phone in the USA. Bad timing, Lack of Apps, Inability to execution, Playing catch up, instead of creating the standard or leading, Subtracting key features & superior hardware from premium flagships(Glance screen from the Icon, removing memory & built-in Wireless changing in the 1520 & 925, putting 720p screens into the 920,925,1020, when 1080p was the standard at the time, and placing outdated hardware besides the camera tech into the 1020 & 920), Lack of unity & cohesiveness within Microsoft(unpolished Microsoft apps, and posting Microsoft news on twitter with a Iphone or Galaxy s whatever), and exclusive phones to carriers are the real key factors to WP lack of success in Merica. Yeah, these tech journalists do go overboard with this Anti-Windows Phones hatred, though.
    tgp likes this.
    07-04-2014 07:42 AM
  7. Ntropy99's Avatar
    The premise that MS needs to advertise WP OS is not the complete argument. You dont see Google advertising Android. You see Samsung advertising their latest phone with an app for that. The S5 is about the hardware and the apps, not the OS. They are good ads, but they tell you nothing about the OS. I dont believe I have ever seen an ad for a Samsung WP. Is that on MS or Samsung? I believe that there must be a licensing clause for the W8.x to produce WP's as well causing the lack of support for the phone OS. Otherwise, why would you manufacture something you have no intention of supporting? Apple advertises iPhones, not iOS. It happens to be that they do both. But typically the ads are not about iOS, but that there is an app for that. With the acquisition of Nokia phones/hardware, MS does need to step up like they have for their in house Surface line. I think they found it hard to support the OS without a direct correlation to hardware. There should be no excuses going forward. But the surface ads, especially the Surface Pro 3, is more about the versatility of the hardware than the OS itself IMO. I believe we will see that with the next generation of phones that have MS on them, and finally their sites will be set on iOS as the most vulnerable target. I am seeing more WP phones in hands than I ever have seen before.
    07-04-2014 08:53 AM
  8. girishN's Avatar

    The first recommendation I get from google's youtube after watching a lumia commercial.
    And samsung! how they made that crap phone look like some futuristic device.
    07-04-2014 09:06 AM
  9. ScottGeek's Avatar
    Agreed, but I'm not gonna get too excited yet considering the source. Chris Pirillo has never liked WP much, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was being really sarcastic and/or troll-y in his "Windows Phone insider info". I like the dude but his WP attitude makes me weary.
    But you know there are stronger voices than that kid Pirillo... Say Paul Thurrott? Personally I don't really care much for the "LockerGnome" Pirillo.... that opinion definitely comes from his "troll-y" nature/style.

    Keeping up and stepping into the WP world go with Thurrott..... he can be critically brutal, but he's evenly handed with it. I find that honest.

    On the topic of so-called "Tech Journalists", keep in mind that these pseudo technologist are paid to write about what's popular and main stream. In the days when Android was clawing its way up the Apple, the non-Fruit phones of the world were put down harshly by folks that never even touched one. WP is having to go through the same... and indeed the lack of any strong AD effort does not help. Microsoft needs to push the "I'm Different.... I'm cool".

    Remember the Surface ADs and the "Click"? -The only problem there was Microsoft needed to keep pushing and pushing... never give up never surrender! It dropped off fast when MS did not make it's sales numbers and then we have the "let loose the Kraken" as critics piled on. It's in that critical moment when MS needs to fight back and resolve the "dislikes" that the consumer has.

    Sadly, Microsoft often does not get the point, remember the Zune? It's not Microsoft that makes its Brand strong... its the users, the real technologist, the people who live and work with Microsoft based tech....

    Anyway, just some thoughts.

    ~ScottGeek.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-04-2014 09:27 AM
  10. Chregu's Avatar
    I believe we will see that with the next generation of phones that have MS on them, and finally their sites will be set on iOS as the most vulnerable target.
    Why do you think iOS is the most vulnerable target? According to recent data Apple is the only company that manages to gain market share: New comScore data shows no growth for Windows Phone OS in US | Windows Phone Central

    Also, Windows Phone is selling mostly low-cost devices, while iOS is high-end. And their next generation will be released in fall, what probably won't hurt their sales either.
    07-04-2014 09:56 AM
  11. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Marketing is not a key factor in the struggles of the Window Phone in the USA. Bad timing, Lack of Apps, Inability to execution, Playing catch up, instead of creating the standard or leading, Subtracting key features & superior hardware from premium flagships(Glance screen from the Icon, removing memory & built-in Wireless changing in the 1520 & 925, putting 720p screens into the 920,925,1020, when 1080p was the standard at the time, and placing outdated hardware besides the camera tech into the 1020 & 920), Lack of unity & cohesiveness within Microsoft(unpolished Microsoft apps, and posting Microsoft news on twitter with a Iphone or Galaxy s whatever), and exclusive phones to carriers are the real key factors to WP lack of success in Merica. Yeah, these tech journalists do go overboard with this Anti-Windows Phones hatred, though.
    Wait wait hold it right there, why exactly is their a lack of apps on Windows Phone? Oh yea it's because app developers aren't interested in developing for such a small user base. Why is our user base so small? Terrible marketing by Microsoft
    07-04-2014 10:21 AM
  12. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    The premise that MS needs to advertise WP OS is not the complete argument. You dont see Google advertising Android. You see Samsung advertising their latest phone with an app for that. The S5 is about the hardware and the apps, not the OS. They are good ads, but they tell you nothing about the OS. I dont believe I have ever seen an ad for a Samsung WP. Is that on MS or Samsung? I believe that there must be a licensing clause for the W8.x to produce WP's as well causing the lack of support for the phone OS. Otherwise, why would you manufacture something you have no intention of supporting? Apple advertises iPhones, not iOS. It happens to be that they do both. But typically the ads are not about iOS, but that there is an app for that. With the acquisition of Nokia phones/hardware, MS does need to step up like they have for their in house Surface line. I think they found it hard to support the OS without a direct correlation to hardware. There should be no excuses going forward. But the surface ads, especially the Surface Pro 3, is more about the versatility of the hardware than the OS itself IMO. I believe we will see that with the next generation of phones that have MS on them, and finally their sites will be set on iOS as the most vulnerable target. I am seeing more WP phones in hands than I ever have seen before.
    Early on when Android was the new rising OS, Google advertised the hell out of it. They ran a massive and extensive "Droid does" campaign. Remember "Droid does"? Quite an effective campaign considering the way their market share grew steadily as that campaign ran.
    07-04-2014 10:24 AM
  13. herbertsnow's Avatar
    Disc aren't obsolete and you can't stream full non compressed HD..and if you think you can,you need to get your eyes checked....👀

    As to the iPod mp3 quality is so far removed from what is available on disc it's sickening..Take any iPod and a old Sony Walkman cd player with a Quality set of ear phones and listen....and if you can't hear a difference after getting your eyes 👀 checked call to get your ears checked too.....
    Discs are obsolete. Holographic data storage is the future.
    07-04-2014 11:39 AM
  14. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    Lol wtf is holographic data storage? Sony is developing 1TB blu ray disc.
    07-04-2014 11:48 AM
  15. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    That first title, "Can anything save..." is Preston Gralla. The man's opinions annoy me. There has been an equal amount of good press recently, and that will continue, but you're right: Microsoft really must learn how to advertise.
    07-04-2014 11:52 AM
  16. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Lol wtf is holographic data storage? Sony is developing 1TB blu ray disc.
    I'll be more impressed when someone starts making 1TB USB 3.0 drives or SD cards. Discs are too cumbersome and fragile it's so much easier to store thousands of songs on an iPod than to own hundreds of different albums on CD and it's much easier to have your games/movie library on a hard drive than to have hundreds of games and movies to store and keep track of.
    07-04-2014 11:56 AM
  17. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    That first title, "Can anything save..." is Preston Gralla. The man's opinions annoy me. There has been an equal amount of good press recently, and that will continue, but you're right: Microsoft really must learn how to advertise.
    Ya he doesn't seem to like Windows Phone or Microsoft very much, his decisions are made before he even uses them.
    07-04-2014 11:57 AM
  18. coip's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone needs a leadership change. Joe Belfiore doesn't get it. He's had his chance and all he's done is achieve stagnant growth (at best), destroyed the few advantages WP had over iOS and Android (e.g. Xbox gaming), and done nothing to solve the biggest problems Windows Phone faces: it's not prevalent (you walk into a Best Buy and you'll see 4 dozen Androids on display and maybe, maybe 1 Windows Phone; most smaller networks don't even have WP on them at all).
    07-04-2014 12:01 PM
  19. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    But you know there are stronger voices than that kid Pirillo... Say Paul Thurrott? Personally I don't really care much for the "LockerGnome" Pirillo.... that opinion definitely comes from his "troll-y" nature/style.

    Keeping up and stepping into the WP world go with Thurrott..... he can be critically brutal, but he's evenly handed with it. I find that honest.

    On the topic of so-called "Tech Journalists", keep in mind that these pseudo technologist are paid to write about what's popular and main stream. In the days when Android was clawing its way up the Apple, the non-Fruit phones of the world were put down harshly by folks that never even touched one. WP is having to go through the same... and indeed the lack of any strong AD effort does not help. Microsoft needs to push the "I'm Different.... I'm cool".

    Remember the Surface ADs and the "Click"? -The only problem there was Microsoft needed to keep pushing and pushing... never give up never surrender! It dropped off fast when MS did not make it's sales numbers and then we have the "let loose the Kraken" as critics piled on. It's in that critical moment when MS needs to fight back and resolve the "dislikes" that the consumer has.

    Sadly, Microsoft often does not get the point, remember the Zune? It's not Microsoft that makes its Brand strong... its the users, the real technologist, the people who live and work with Microsoft based tech....

    Anyway, just some thoughts.

    ~ScottGeek.
    Another thing I don't like about Chris Pirillo is that in his videos he talks and goes off on so many different irrelevant tangents and turns 5 minute reviews into 20-25 minute rants with a small review in between. He's usually quite fair and objective with his tech opinions but he's been quite the jerk with Windows Phone and the Surface Pro 3 lately, I don't know why. I stopped watching him though he simply wastes too much time.
    07-04-2014 12:01 PM
  20. Pacus1x's Avatar
    Marketing is not a key factor in the struggles of the Window Phone in the USA. Bad timing, Lack of Apps, Inability to execution, Playing catch up, instead of creating the standard or leading, Subtracting key features & superior hardware from premium flagships(Glance screen from the Icon, removing memory & built-in Wireless changing in the 1520 & 925, putting 720p screens into the 920,925,1020, when 1080p was the standard at the time, and placing outdated hardware besides the camera tech into the 1020 & 920), Lack of unity & cohesiveness within Microsoft(unpolished Microsoft apps, and posting Microsoft news on twitter with a Iphone or Galaxy s whatever), and exclusive phones to carriers are the real key factors to WP lack of success in Merica. Yeah, these tech journalists do go overboard with this Anti-Windows Phones hatred, though.
    While agree in many points... the hardware for the 920 and 925 was fine in 2012, the 1080p screen was not a standard in that time, most flasgship phones in that period like the SG3 and the HTC ONE X came with 720p screens.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-04-2014 12:04 PM
  21. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone needs a leadership change. Joe Belfiore doesn't get it. He's had his chance and all he's done is achieve stagnant growth (at best), destroyed the few advantages WP had over iOS and Android (e.g. Xbox gaming), and done nothing to solve the biggest problems Windows Phone faces: it's not prevalent (you walk into a Best Buy and you'll see 4 dozen Androids on display and maybe, maybe 1 Windows Phone; most smaller networks don't even have WP on them at all).
    Well Joe is a great tech guy he's just a terrible marketing guy, Microsoft just needs a better spokesperson and leave Joe to the technical leadership behind the curtains. He just seems too passive as well, like he's constantly talked over in meetings. He needs to be lobbying Satya Nadella for more Windows Phone ad campaigning, heck Microsoft rakes in close to $2 billion just off of patents that Android uses. Wouldn't it be something if Microsoft used some of that Android patent royalty money put towards pushing Windows Phone? Android essentially would be indirectly funding Windows Phone marketing.
    07-04-2014 12:09 PM
  22. Ntropy99's Avatar
    Early on when Android was the new rising OS, Google advertised the hell out of it. They ran a massive and extensive "Droid does" campaign. Remember "Droid does"? Quite an effective campaign considering the way their market share grew steadily as that campaign ran.
    I remember Droid from the early days of android. Nice point, but I remember it being about the hardware and Verizon, which didn't have iPhones. The market at that time was iPhone on AT&T, blackberry, and Verizon looking for enough of a clone that they could push. Remember the thunderbolt? After "Droid does", what else was there other than the "power" of the hardware. Early android was an alternative to iPhone that had to catch up, had better hardware (and needed it), and the support of Verizon in the ads. I remember the first ads for WP7. I remember them trying to sell the OS, but not necessarily a distinctive phone. @ Chregu - iOS is the target if you look at next level market penetration. WP can present a solid distinctive OS like iOS with different hardware delivery like Android. A true pocket PC with a complete ecosystem when they complete their one screen vision. iPhones are higher end for now, but that also caps their audience.
    07-04-2014 04:16 PM
  23. realwarder's Avatar
    Half of the issues are bad marketing...

    E.g. cameras: Samsung S5 advert only about the camera basically says: Twice the megapixels than an iPhone, you will take better photos. Nokia advert: You can sit at the back of a hall and take a photo.

    Yes, the Nokia was a funny advert, but sometimes you have to spell out the basics in the most simple and obvious way. And the Nokia has the better camera, yet watching TV you'd think a Samsung did.

    Likewise they missed on wireless charging. Family Room. Trivial sharing photos via SkyDrive (PC/Xbox). Focus on neat exclusive features. One ad per feature.

    Back on topic, yes, there are a lot of anti-Microsoft reporters. PCWorld especially annoys me. X is crap because it's not an iZZZ. Too many biased reporters. Did Apple buy them all free Macs for life?
    07-04-2014 04:21 PM
  24. Craigtrain's Avatar
    Early on when Android was the new rising OS, Google advertised the hell out of it. They ran a massive and extensive "Droid does" campaign. Remember "Droid does"?
    Google did not make those commercials, Verizon and Motorola did.
    07-04-2014 05:58 PM
  25. Nerdy Woman's Avatar
    Microsoft has never been good at marketing to consumers. Over the years (including what Sir William calls the evil empire days), Microsoft has led the pack with innovation but abandons products for which there is not already an established market. They suck at educating consumers about how a new or better product can benefit them.

    For example:
    Microsoft Office - introduced in 1989 (RTM 1990), the suite was the first of its kind. Before that, people used Werdpurfekt, Lotus 1-2-3, Harvard Graphics and dBase I, II, III, IV, V, etc. Those apps all had different menu layouts, different keyboard shortcuts (critical in DOS days), and ZERO plans to enable OLE. But the reason Microsoft Office became the de facto standard had nothing to do with the superiority of the product, the unified interface scheme, or the roadmap regarding future OLE functionality. Most worker bees and managers opposed adopting Word and PowerPoint over Werdpurfekt and Harvard Graphics. It was the bean counters that forced them to do it. The accounting departments and finance geeks wanted Excel and bundling it with counterparts to the industry leading apps was a brief glimmer of marketing genius.

    Products that could have succeeded but didn't:
    MS Reader - back when the notion of separating content from format was still the stuff of student discussion groups and people who understand hex code, Microsoft Research Lab offered up MS Reader to display e-books. The problem was there were no e-books. The few titles they could offer in their library were those snagged from public domain titles provided in text-only format by Project Gutenberg. Oh, and there were no e-reader devices, so early adopters could only read e-books while perched in front of their computer monitors. Good times. Microsoft orphaned MS Reader long before there was cloud storage and handhelds that could have made the .lit format an industry standard.

    Microsoft Money - sometimes it's little things that make one product better than another. Money was much more intuitive-to-use than the industry leader Quicken. Little things like having it format a contact phone number for you or AutoComplete a field as you begin to type. And sometimes it's big things like small business users of QuickBooks trusting Intuit when choosing their personal finance tools.

    At the end of the day, Microsoft management is very selective about where they put R&D and marketing dollars. It seems if they can't have a majority market share, they surrender the field. And that is what I fear might happen to Windows Phone. My hope for the future of this superior product is that Microsoft is so heavily invested, they won't walk away.
    07-04-2014 06:59 PM
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