07-13-2014 07:30 AM
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  1. Craigtrain's Avatar
    This was written in 2010, but it's an excellent read.

    Microsoft's creative destruction: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/op...nted=all&_r=1&
    07-04-2014 10:25 PM
  2. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    Wait wait hold it right there, why exactly is their a lack of apps on Windows Phone?
    The consumer/tech journalists does not care why their are a lack of apps for Windows Phone.
    Oh yea it's because app developers aren't interested in developing for such a small user base.
    Outside of Google apps, you're right. But everyone with 200+ posts in this forum on know that. So, why bring this up?
    Why is our user base so small?Terrible marketing by Microsoft
    Wrong, Marketing is not why tech journalist bash Windows Phones, why is our user base so small, nor the reason for consumers choose Iphone or Android phone over a Windows Phone.
    FinancialP likes this.
    07-05-2014 12:10 AM
  3. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    Early on when Android was the new rising OS, Google advertised the hell out of it. They ran a massive and extensive "Droid does" campaign. Remember "Droid does"? Quite an effective campaign considering the way their market share grew steadily as that campaign ran.
    That was Verizon not Google.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-05-2014 12:11 AM
  4. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    This was written in 2010, but it's an excellent read.

    Microsoft's creative destruction: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/op...nted=all&_r=1&
    That article even though written in 2010,is still valid and from what can be seen,is still the way it is there.

    This is why I have said before unless they get rid of the current management it never will change.

    Personally,I don't think it will change,they don't have anyone who will root out those who hold the mobile division back for fear of losing on their bread and butter division.

    You can't have complete integration when the department heads are sabotaging others efforts to succeed...and one of the main reasons we see certain software run better and go to other platforms first...and folks wonder why WP is in a dismal 3rd place and loosing..


    Unless they turn things around and decide to make WP their main priority not other platforms, I'm afraid WP is doomed in the long run.
    07-05-2014 09:26 AM
  5. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    The consumer/tech journalists does not care why their are a lack of apps for Windows Phone.
    Outside of Google apps, you're right. But everyone with 200+ posts in this forum on know that. So, why bring this up?

    Wrong, Marketing is not why tech journalist bash Windows Phones, why is our user base so small, nor the reason for consumers choose Iphone or Android phone over a Windows Phone.
    Okay then care to share your hypothesis as to why Windows Phone's user base is not only small but shrinking in the US? If it's not poor advertising then what is it?
    07-05-2014 10:33 AM
  6. Chregu's Avatar
    Okay then care to share your hypothesis as to why Windows Phone's user base is not only small but shrinking in the US? If it's not poor advertising then what is it?
    My guesses: Except of the Nokia cameras nothing exciting on the hardware front since release of Windows Phone. Even if many of the things high-end Android devices have to offer is gimmicky, it's at least something to talk about and they have alway featured better specs. Except of Nokia no serious hardware partners left and limited releases (carrier-bound phones). The app gap which might be not as big as it was anymore, but is still stuck in the minds of people. As it is still existing however it's hard to change this negative in people's minds. According to what people say in this forums: Sells persons who recommend other phones.

    What could be an issue: People that bought devices like a Lumia 900 and learned a few weeks later that it won't be updated to Windows Phone 8 and new apps won't work on it felt probably pretty burned and avoided buying another Windows Phone when they contracts ended after two years.
    07-05-2014 10:50 AM
  7. tgp's Avatar
    Okay then care to share your hypothesis as to why Windows Phone's user base is not only small but shrinking in the US? If it's not poor advertising then what is it?
    While advertising is very important, the product advertised must also perform.
    07-05-2014 10:51 AM
  8. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    There are multiple reasons why WP is failing,some have been reported on this forum by people that really know.

    Microsoft hosing over the OEM partners,Microsoft hosing over the customer base,Microsoft management hosing over each other....can anyone understand why the average person who wants a new phone doesn't trust Microsoft?

    Until they can fix what is wrong with themselves,the public won't believe in them...

    Marketing reflects what a company wants to show....and there is nothing to see with their marketing strategies....people have to believe in a company before they believe in their products.

    Microsoft has hosed it's customer base....they are their own worst enemy.
    07-05-2014 11:01 AM
  9. prasath1234's Avatar
    Early on when Android was the new rising OS, Google advertised the hell out of it. They ran a massive and extensive "Droid does" campaign. Remember "Droid does"? Quite an effective campaign considering the way their market share grew steadily as that campaign ran.
    DROID won because of Samsung campaign. That's the case in India.Sammy please make windows phone popular.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    07-05-2014 12:27 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    DROID won because of Samsung campaign.
    Huh? DROID is Motorola. I don't think Samsung was pushing DROID. ๐Ÿ˜•
    07-05-2014 01:11 PM
  11. ScottGeek's Avatar
    Another thing I don't like about Chris Pirillo is that in his videos he talks and goes off on so many different irrelevant tangents and turns 5 minute reviews into 20-25 minute rants with a small review in between. He's usually quite fair and objective with his tech opinions but he's been quite the jerk with Windows Phone and the Surface Pro 3 lately, I don't know why. I stopped watching him though he simply wastes too much time.
    I think if Chris could figure out that the "middle 5 minute" part is where he's the strongest, then he could get closer to the caliber of a Paul Thurrott. Chris does have the potential because he is smart, but smart and scattered...ya it's hard to follow. But sadly, Chris has been this way since the old days of TechTV.

    ~ScottGeek.
    07-05-2014 01:32 PM
  12. prasath1234's Avatar
    Huh? DROID is Motorola. I don't think Samsung was pushing DROID. ๐Ÿ˜•
    I meant android

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    07-05-2014 02:01 PM
  13. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    While advertising is very important, the product advertised must also perform.
    They performed have they not? The Nokia Lumia 920 won a bunch of critical acclaim at the time it came out. The 1020, 1520 and Icon/930 all were scoring high in non biased reviews. Engadget and CNET had nothing but praise for the flagship Nokia devices, it was the "app gap" issue that kept most of them from recommending them to their iOS & Android audience. Then of course there's other reviewers like the ones in my OP that clearly just can't stomach Microsoft products.
    07-05-2014 02:29 PM
  14. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    DROID won because of Samsung campaign. That's the case in India.Sammy please make windows phone popular.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    See the consumers don't know the technical and formal semantics. To them Android and DROID are interchangeable whether the commercial was for a Motorola or Samsung phone it didn't matter because either way the Android platform was getting exposure that familiarized the consumer with Android.
    07-05-2014 02:33 PM
  15. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    My guesses: Except of the Nokia cameras nothing exciting on the hardware front since release of Windows Phone. Even if many of the things high-end Android devices have to offer is gimmicky, it's at least something to talk about and they have alway featured better specs. Except of Nokia no serious hardware partners left and limited releases (carrier-bound phones). The app gap which might be not as big as it was anymore, but is still stuck in the minds of people. As it is still existing however it's hard to change this negative in people's minds. According to what people say in this forums: Sells persons who recommend other phones.

    What could be an issue: People that bought devices like a Lumia 900 and learned a few weeks later that it won't be updated to Windows Phone 8 and new apps won't work on it felt probably pretty burned and avoided buying another Windows Phone when they contracts ended after two years.
    I agree and disagree, before Nokia became a subsidiary of MSFT they were actually pushing their phones. Windows Phone saw steady growth in the US and Europe (albeit slow) each quarter of each year they adopted WP as their OS. The OS itself was a differentiation from the competition, plus the colorful tiles went nice with their colorful phones. They had things like built in Qi wireless charging (can't think of many Android phones that have that) the camera tech and the color selection. You think those are trivial but they're not, people love how my Icon can sit on a plate and charge and they're perplexed why their iPhone or Galaxy can't. They also love my friends yellow Lumia 1020 alot of people get bored with just black or white. Hence the reason Apple brought out the 5C some suggest they did that out of concern in European markets by the growth in colorful Lumia phone sales.

    I digress, point in WP grew in market share when Nokia was actually advertising. After the MSFT purchase, WP ads disappeared for the most part. Especially in the US and that's why they're slipping here.
    07-05-2014 02:49 PM
  16. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Microsoft has never been good at marketing to consumers. Over the years (including what Sir William calls the evil empire days), Microsoft has led the pack with innovation but abandons products for which there is not already an established market. They suck at educating consumers about how a new or better product can benefit them..
    Excellent insight! I agree. Microsoft has never had that much of a problem creating great and in some cases innovative products. Their software knowledge and resources are second to none. When you consider all the thousands of Microsoft tech patents out there it's hard to find one many electronics that doesn't owe something to Redmond. I've never had much concerns about programing and engineering side of things, I've always stressed their incompetence in marketing and educating consumers. Not only that but their PR is just terrible, everyone seems to know about Zune and Vista but less about the successful and critically acclaimed Microsoft products.
    That's all on Microsoft's marketing and PR teams! They have consistently let down the software/hardware engineers at Redmond. When a company like Apple screws up (think Apple maps, iMessage bug, suicidal laborers in China etc) their PR damage control are quick to respond and bury anything that might hurt the Company's image.

    Who is in charge of the Marketing/PR division at MSFT? Do they even have one?
    Nerdy Woman likes this.
    07-05-2014 03:09 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Okay then care to share your hypothesis as to why Windows Phone's user base is not only small but shrinking in the US? If it's not poor advertising then what is it?


    I'd say it's more related to missing apps. I see ads on TV every day that mention "Get our app from the App Store or Google Play" for department stores, grocery stores, discount stores. None of these TV ads mention Windows Phone Store, since these companies don't have Windows Phone apps. A consumer in the US will notice that.



    For example, Cinemark just got a Windows Phone app. My friends with Androids and iPhones have been using it for over two years. If someone had been a regular movie goer at Cinematk, the prior inability to get Cinemode rewards might have discouraged him/her from getting a Windows Phone.
    Chregu, a5cent, BobLobIaw and 2 others like this.
    07-05-2014 03:18 PM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    They performed have they not?
    Windows Phone doesn't really offer anything compelling that isn't already available. There's not an advantage to getting a WP rather than an iPhone or Android. It doesn't do anything significant that isn't already done, and it doesn't offer anything significant in hardware or software that isn't already here.

    This of course is looking at it 100% objectively, not from a Microsoft fanboy/I hate Google/I hate Apple perspective. But for the average consumer, if they hate any tech company it's probably Microsoft, which doesn't help WP's situation either.
    07-05-2014 04:18 PM
  19. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Windows Phone doesn't really offer anything compelling that isn't already available. There's not an advantage to getting a WP rather than an iPhone or Android. It doesn't do anything significant that isn't already done, and it doesn't offer anything significant in hardware or software that isn't already here.

    This of course is looking at it 100% objectively, not from a Microsoft fanboy/I hate Google/I hate Apple perspective. But for the average consumer, if they hate any tech company it's probably Microsoft, which doesn't help WP's situation either.
    What about camera functionality? The 1020 has a much better camera than anything else available from Apple/Android OEMs.
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-05-2014 05:42 PM
  20. paulxxwall's Avatar
    What about camera functionality? The 1020 has a much better camera than anything else available from Apple/Android OEMs.
    yet adroids and iPhones sell like a billion times more! Lumia cameras are the best but if it was the cameras the people really wanted then why are we in a distant 3rd? Aren't our cameras sweeter than there's?
    07-05-2014 05:56 PM
  21. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    yet adroids and iPhones sell like a billion times more! Lumia cameras are the best but if it was the cameras the people really wanted then why are we in a distant 3rd? Aren't our cameras sweeter than there's?
    In the US, that could be because the 1020/1520, which have the best cameras, are AT&T exclusives. Even if someone wants a great camera, he/she probably won't switch carriers to get those devices, especially if AT&T coverage is bad where he/she lives.
    07-05-2014 05:59 PM
  22. tgp's Avatar
    What about camera functionality? The 1020 has a much better camera than anything else available from Apple/Android OEMs.
    That is true, I missed that one. But even so, that's Nokia, not WP. And the 1020 is possibly the only Lumia that has a much better camera than the closest competition. Most WPs sold are not 1020s. Most are 520s, which has one of the worst cameras.

    In short, camera quality is not very important, as long as the camera is good enough.
    07-05-2014 06:00 PM
  23. ohgood's Avatar
    if you want a marketing campaign to matter, it will need to bypass androids adblock application.

    otherwise, is wasted advertising dollars
    07-05-2014 06:03 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    if you want a marketing campaign to matter, it will need to bypass androids adblock application.

    otherwise, is wasted advertising dollars
    I don't think mobile advertising matters that much, and many consumers also use adblock in desktop PC browsers too.

    I believe most posters are referring to advertising on TV, billboards, movie theaters, sports venues.
    Sir William Wiener likes this.
    07-05-2014 06:06 PM
  25. Sir William Wiener's Avatar
    Windows Phone doesn't really offer anything compelling that isn't already available. There's not an advantage to getting a WP rather than an iPhone or Android. It doesn't do anything significant that isn't already done, and it doesn't offer anything significant in hardware or software that isn't already here.

    This of course is looking at it 100% objectively, not from a Microsoft fanboy/I hate Google/I hate Apple perspective. But for the average consumer, if they hate any tech company it's probably Microsoft, which doesn't help WP's situation either.
    Compelling? Like what would fit your definition of compelling? Do you want anti-gravity Nokia phones that float slowly and gently to the ground like a feather when dropped?

    Nokia would have never met their profit margins if they loaded phones with features that would just raise their production costs and raise the price of their phones that already have a tough time selling in the US. With the current mobile tech available there's not much more any OEM could put in a smartphone to truly be "compelling" at least not yet. There's no huge compelling difference between an IPhone 5s and Samsung Galaxy S5, if anything they're the Coke and Pepsi of smartphones right now. What's so different about Coke and Pepsi? Branding and Advertising of course.

    The way you set yourself apart in saturated markets such as the smartphone market is good marketing pure and simple.
    07-05-2014 06:17 PM
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