Anti-Windows Phone Sentiment Strong Among Tech Journalists

[Sir William Wiener]

Microsoft has never been good at marketing to consumers. Over the years (including what Sir William calls the evil empire days), Microsoft has led the pack with innovation but abandons products for which there is not already an established market. They suck at educating consumers about how a new or better product can benefit them..

Excellent insight! I agree. Microsoft has never had that much of a problem creating great and in some cases innovative products. Their software knowledge and resources are second to none. When you consider all the thousands of Microsoft tech patents out there it's hard to find one many electronics that doesn't owe something to Redmond. I've never had much concerns about programing and engineering side of things, I've always stressed their incompetence in marketing and educating consumers. Not only that but their PR is just terrible, everyone seems to know about Zune and Vista but less about the successful and critically acclaimed Microsoft products.
That's all on Microsoft's marketing and PR teams! They have consistently let down the software/hardware engineers at Redmond. When a company like Apple screws up (think Apple maps, iMessage bug, suicidal laborers in China etc) their PR damage control are quick to respond and bury anything that might hurt the Company's image.

Who is in charge of the Marketing/PR division at MSFT? Do they even have one?

 

[Laura Knotek]

Okay then care to share your hypothesis as to why Windows Phone's user base is not only small but shrinking in the US? If it's not poor advertising then what is it?

I'd say it's more related to missing apps. I see ads on TV every day that mention "Get our app from the App Store or Google Play" for department stores, grocery stores, discount stores. None of these TV ads mention Windows Phone Store, since these companies don't have Windows Phone apps. A consumer in the US will notice that.



For example, Cinemark just got a Windows Phone app. My friends with Androids and iPhones have been using it for over two years. If someone had been a regular movie goer at Cinematk, the prior inability to get Cinemode rewards might have discouraged him/her from getting a Windows Phone.

 

[tgp]

They performed have they not?

Windows Phone doesn't really offer anything compelling that isn't already available. There's not an advantage to getting a WP rather than an iPhone or Android. It doesn't do anything significant that isn't already done, and it doesn't offer anything significant in hardware or software that isn't already here.

This of course is looking at it 100% objectively, not from a Microsoft ******/I hate Google/I hate Apple perspective. But for the average consumer, if they hate any tech company it's probably Microsoft, which doesn't help WP's situation either.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Windows Phone doesn't really offer anything compelling that isn't already available. There's not an advantage to getting a WP rather than an iPhone or Android. It doesn't do anything significant that isn't already done, and it doesn't offer anything significant in hardware or software that isn't already here.

This of course is looking at it 100% objectively, not from a Microsoft ******/I hate Google/I hate Apple perspective. But for the average consumer, if they hate any tech company it's probably Microsoft, which doesn't help WP's situation either.

What about camera functionality? The 1020 has a much better camera than anything else available from Apple/Android OEMs.

 

[paulxxwall]

What about camera functionality? The 1020 has a much better camera than anything else available from Apple/Android OEMs.

yet adroids and iPhones sell like a billion times more! Lumia cameras are the best but if it was the cameras the people really wanted then why are we in a distant 3rd? Aren't our cameras sweeter than there's?

 

[Laura Knotek]

yet adroids and iPhones sell like a billion times more! Lumia cameras are the best but if it was the cameras the people really wanted then why are we in a distant 3rd? Aren't our cameras sweeter than there's?

In the US, that could be because the 1020/1520, which have the best cameras, are AT&T exclusives. Even if someone wants a great camera, he/she probably won't switch carriers to get those devices, especially if AT&T coverage is bad where he/she lives.

 

[tgp]

What about camera functionality? The 1020 has a much better camera than anything else available from Apple/Android OEMs.

That is true, I missed that one. But even so, that's Nokia, not WP. And the 1020 is possibly the only Lumia that has a much better camera than the closest competition. Most WPs sold are not 1020s. Most are 520s, which has one of the worst cameras.

In short, camera quality is not very important, as long as the camera is good enough.

 

[ohgood]

if you want a marketing campaign to matter, it will need to bypass androids adblock application.

otherwise, is wasted advertising dollars

 

[Laura Knotek]

if you want a marketing campaign to matter, it will need to bypass androids adblock application.

otherwise, is wasted advertising dollars

I don't think mobile advertising matters that much, and many consumers also use adblock in desktop PC browsers too.

I believe most posters are referring to advertising on TV, billboards, movie theaters, sports venues.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

Windows Phone doesn't really offer anything compelling that isn't already available. There's not an advantage to getting a WP rather than an iPhone or Android. It doesn't do anything significant that isn't already done, and it doesn't offer anything significant in hardware or software that isn't already here.

This of course is looking at it 100% objectively, not from a Microsoft ******/I hate Google/I hate Apple perspective. But for the average consumer, if they hate any tech company it's probably Microsoft, which doesn't help WP's situation either.

Compelling? Like what would fit your definition of compelling? Do you want anti-gravity Nokia phones that float slowly and gently to the ground like a feather when dropped?

Nokia would have never met their profit margins if they loaded phones with features that would just raise their production costs and raise the price of their phones that already have a tough time selling in the US. With the current mobile tech available there's not much more any OEM could put in a smartphone to truly be "compelling" at least not yet. There's no huge compelling difference between an IPhone 5s and Samsung Galaxy S5, if anything they're the Coke and Pepsi of smartphones right now. What's so different about Coke and Pepsi? Branding and Advertising of course.

The way you set yourself apart in saturated markets such as the smartphone market is good marketing pure and simple.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

if you want a marketing campaign to matter, it will need to bypass androids adblock application.

otherwise, is wasted advertising dollars

There's plenty other mediums of advertising than on Android devices or Google services. Television is still the number one channel of marketing used today. There's no Superbowl of internet computer ads, TV is where you live or die as a marketer in corporate America.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

I'd say it's more related to missing apps. I see ads on TV every day that mention "Get our app from the App Store or Google Play" for department stores, grocery stores, discount stores. None of these TV ads mention Windows Phone Store, since these companies don't have Windows Phone apps. A consumer in the US will notice that.



For example, Cinemark just got a Windows Phone app. My friends with Androids and iPhones have been using it for over two years. If someone had been a regular movie goer at Cinematk, the prior inability to get Cinemode rewards might have discouraged him/her from getting a Windows Phone.

Yes but the missing apps are merely a SYMPTOM of the problem not the root cause, we don't have many apps because developers (American devs in specific) don't see the economic benefit of developing for Windows Phone and catering to a small audience. They are focused on iOS and Android right now, the Windows Phone user base is small because the average consumer still has no idea what Windows Phone 8 is. I want Daniel or Sam to do a video where they take WP devices out into public and ask random people of all ages to what they are. I'd guarantee alot of them wouldn't know outright or they would ask if it's a special type of Android phone (like many have asked about my Icon). As a control for the experiment they should also show the random people an IPhone 5s and Samsung Galaxy S5. This would show everyone here who is hesitant to blame Microsoft marketing just exactly how poorly MS has done in reaching and educating the mainstream consumer on what Windows Phone is and why they should have it instead of an iPhone or Android device.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Yes but the missing apps are merely a SYMPTOM of the problem not the root cause, we don't have many apps because developers (American devs in specific) don't see the economic benefit of developing for Windows Phone and catering to a small audience. They are focused on iOS and Android right now, the Windows Phone user base is small because the average consumer still has no idea what Windows Phone 8 is. I want Daniel or Sam to do a video where they take WP devices out into public and ask random people of all ages to what they are. I'd guarantee alot of them wouldn't know outright or they would ask if it's a special type of Android phone (like many have asked about my Icon). As a control for the experiment they should also show the random people an IPhone 5s and Samsung Galaxy S5. This would show everyone here who is hesitant to blame Microsoft marketing just exactly how poorly MS has done in reaching and educating the mainstream consumer on what Windows Phone is and why they should have it instead of an iPhone or Android device.

I wouldn't say it's a symptom, rather than a cause. If a consumer uses apps for Walmart, Target, Lowe's, Macy's, Giant Eagle, Sam's Club and finds out that Windows Phone does not have those apps, that person would not be interested in Windows Phone, even if he/she knew what it was.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

The consumer/tech journalists does not care why their are a lack of apps for Windows Phone.
Outside of Google apps, you're right. But everyone with 200+ posts in this forum on know that. So, why bring this up?

Wrong, Marketing is not why tech journalist bash Windows Phones, why is our user base so small, nor the reason for consumers choose Iphone or Android phone over a Windows Phone.

Why are you trying to pick apart my points by essentially saying "But I already knew this" I'll spell it out easier for people who don't understand what I'm saying here:

THE PROBLEM: Windows Phone market share is eroding in the United States, China and Germany

SYMPTOMS OF THE PROBLEM:
-Poor support of apps from developers and lack of real updates(Twitter, Facebook, Instagram still in Beta etc).
-Lack of official apps (including Google's WP app boycott)
-Late arrival of trending apps/games from iOS and Android that have already faded away in popularity by the time WP gets it
-Lack of knowledge from average level devs on how to code apps for Windows/Windows Phone.

CONSEQUENCE OF PROBLEM: Small user base size, lack of publicity, awareness and familiarity of Windows Phone by the majority of the mainstream smartphone consumers. Erosion in Windows Phone market share which didn't have much room to erode.

CAUSE OF PROBLEM: incompetent, anemic, ineffective and forgettable marketing and consumer education of the product(WP) by Microsoft.

POTENTIAL SOLUTION: Microsoft hires independent prestigious marketing firm who specialize in the art and science of product marketing. Samsung did not advertise the Galaxy themselves in the US, they hired the best American marketing firm that money could buy and met the resulting demand for their product created by the independent firm contracted by Samsung.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

I wouldn't say it's a symptom, rather than a cause. If a consumer uses apps for Walmart, Target, Lowe's, Macy's, Giant Eagle, Sam's Club and finds out that Windows Phone does not have those apps, that person would not be interested in Windows Phone, even if he/she knew what it was.

Apps don't come before users it's the other way around. Those companies you named don't have enough of an economic incentive to bother with creating a Windows Phone app. To them Windows Phone isn't yet established, the numbers are just too small for them to bother with right now. They look at things such as Windows Phone's growth and market share size and then decide if it makes sense to develop on the platform. Right now they're probably betting on Windows Phone all but dying off, Microsoft isn't being a good pitchman. Eroding market share makes Windows Phone look bad to the numbers oriented companies/businesses such as Walmart, Target or Lowes.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Apps don't come before users it's the other way around. Those companies you named don't have enough of an economic incentive to bother with creating a Windows Phone app. To them Windows Phone isn't yet established, the numbers are just too small for them to bother with right now.

How would you convince people who use those apps on their iPhones/Androids to switch to Windows Phone without those apps? What marketing idea do you have in that case, or would you limit marketing to people in the US who still have feature phones and wouldn't care about those apps?

 

[MDMcAtee]

Compelling? Like what would fit your definition of compelling? Do you want anti-gravity Nokia phones that float slowly and gently to the ground like a feather when dropped?

Nokia would have never met their profit margins if they loaded phones with features that would just raise their production costs and raise the price of their phones that already have a tough time selling in the US. With the current mobile tech available there's not much more any OEM could put in a smartphone to truly be "compelling" at least not yet. There's no huge compelling difference between an IPhone 5s and Samsung Galaxy S5, if anything they're the Coke and Pepsi of smartphones right now. What's so different about Coke and Pepsi? Branding and Advertising of course.

The way you set yourself apart in saturated markets such as the smartphone market is good marketing pure and simple.

Good points for sure..but look at a couple others.

Good marketing strategies involve more than one type of add..

Look at the differences between how Apple and Samsung go at it..

Samsung would have you believe that only old people use the iPhones and in sales nothing further is true. They show their phones doing neat looking things..

Apples adds aren't slamming the competition ( recently anyway).. So what are they showing that keeps sales high here in the USA..fitness,childish learning,young professionals people.. Apples iPhones don't have gimmicky ways of turning on.or nfc transfers yet ( rumors of it in IOS 8) but....can and do control household items lights,tstat home theater..and have more programming available for it.

2 styles of marketing to choose from....from the leading platforms..

Which would work best for Microsoft for WP?

Right now WP is at a app disadvantage..it doesn't matter what is coming....because we all know it is and needs Quality first party apps....We have Glance correct..is Microsoft leasing it to Samsung for it's gimmicky new technology? We have. Cortana...why aren't the 2 being hailed as the next big thing...
To me...it's not just"whose in charge of marketing" but why isn't nadela firings people

 

[Sir William Wiener]

Good points for sure..but look at a couple others.

Good marketing strategies involve more than one type of add..

Look at the differences between how Apple and Samsung go at it..

Samsung would have you believe that only old people use the iPhones and in sales nothing further is true. They show their phones doing neat looking things..

Apples adds aren't slamming the competition ( recently anyway).. So what are they showing that keeps sales high here in the USA..fitness,childish learning,young professionals people.. Apples iPhones don't have gimmicky ways of turning on.or nfc transfers yet ( rumors of it in IOS 8) but....can and do control household items lights,tstat home theater..and have more programming available for it.

2 styles of marketing to choose from....from the leading platforms..

Which would work best for Microsoft for WP?

Right now WP is at a app disadvantage..it doesn't matter what is coming....because we all know it is and needs Quality first party apps....We have Glance correct..is Microsoft leasing it to Samsung for it's gimmicky new technology? We have. Cortana...why aren't the 2 being hailed as the next big thing...
To me...it's not just"whose in charge of marketing" but why isn't nadela firings people

I'm not saying Microsoft needs one 30 second miracle TV ad to turn things around, of course we know it will take much more than that. They need to create a desire/sense in the consumers that says "I want/need a Windows Phone because iOS or Android doesn't satisfy that specific need/want"

Microsoft needs to promote Windows Phone for what it is, which is a fluid, fast and organized OS that offers alot of the buttoned down security of iOS but with a degree of Android-esque customization but not at the cost of security breaches that ruin the integrity of the OS like sometimes is the case with Android. Windows Phone is a marriage of the pros of iOS with the pros of Android while simultaneously a divorce (if you will) of the cons of iOS and cons of Android.

We know of the disadvantages Windows Phone faces against the two titans of iOS and Android, however the advantage of WP is its exclusivity cool factor it can have. What's "cooler" to see driving down your street? A beige 4 door Toyota Camry or bright yellow Lamborghini Aventador? WP is a cool niche right now Microsoft could be using that niche coolness to push the OS enough so that's no longer a niche.

 

[Sir William Wiener]

How would you convince people who use those apps on their iPhones/Androids to switch to Windows Phone without those apps? What marketing idea do you have in that case, or would you limit marketing to people in the US who still have feature phones and wouldn't care about those apps?

Quite simple, what are primary functions of a modern smartphone? It needs to of course make phone calls and send text messages CHECK. It needs to be able to browse the internet in an intuitive manner CHECK. It needs to be able to stay connected with email and social network happenings (Facebook,Twitter LinkedIn, Instagram etc). CHECK. It needs to be able to take a picture or record video when something cool or memorable happens suddenly and I wanna capture the moment. CHECK. It needs to serve as an Mp3 player for my music collection CHECK?(sort of Xbox Music). It needs to help me when I'm lost and serve as a GPS map CHECK.

This is what the modern smartphone is used for 80-90% of the time. The emphasis(perception of necessity) on Apps was created primarily by Apple (there's an App for that). But really how important are some of the Apps you mentioned? Can't you just look up Lowes' lumber prices on your IE browser just as easily as downloading and installing a Lowes App that you might use once or twice a year (unless you work construction). The apps are better described as something that keeps people on Windows Phone. The reason current Windows Phone users leave WP is because the hot new trendy apps their IPhone/Android buddies have (that come with userbase growth) never came to WP. They never came to Windows Phone because of the slow growth rate of WP. The slow growth rate comes at the hands of Microsoft's marketing strategy failing.

Make no mistake the reason Microsoft has the smartphone market share it has now globally is because of Nokia's marketing efforts to push Nokia phones that coincidentally ran the WP OS. The problem arose when MSFT took over the shots for Nokia. Microsoft-Nokia no longer has to worry about selling phones to stay alive, Microsoft doesn't feel that capitalistic fight or flight mentality because their cash flow books look quite nice. They have no problems paying the bills because MSFT is much more than a phone company. Microsoft doenst know how to sell phones because they're not a phone company they're a software company.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Quite simple, what are primary functions of a modern smartphone? It needs to of course make phone calls and send text messages CHECK. It needs to be able to browse the internet in an intuitive manner CHECK. It needs to be able to stay connected with email and social network happenings (Facebook,Twitter LinkedIn, Instagram etc). CHECK. It needs to be able to take a picture or record video when something cool or memorable happens suddenly and I wanna capture the moment. CHECK. It needs to serve as an Mp3 player for my music collection CHECK?(sort of Xbox Music). It needs to help me when I'm lost and serve as a GPS map CHECK.

This is what the modern smartphone is used for 80-90% of the time. The emphasis(perception of necessity) on Apps was created primarily by Apple (there's an App for that). But really how important are some of the Apps you mentioned? Can't you just look up Lowes' lumber prices on your IE browser just as easily as downloading and installing a Lowes App that you might use once or twice a year (unless you work construction). The apps are better described as something that keeps people on Windows Phone. The reason current Windows Phone users leave WP is because the hot new trendy apps their IPhone/Android buddies have (that come with userbase growth) never came to WP. They never came to Windows Phone because of the slow growth rate of WP. The slow growth rate comes at the hands of Microsoft's marketing strategy failing.

Make no mistake the reason Microsoft has the smartphone market share it has now globally is because of Nokia's marketing efforts to push Nokia phones that coincidentally ran the WP OS. The problem arose when MSFT took over the shots for Nokia. Microsoft-Nokia no longer has to worry about selling phones to stay alive, Microsoft doesn't feel that capitalistic fight or flight mentality because their books look quite nice. They have no problems paying the bills because MSFT is much more than a phone company. Microsoft doenst know how to sell phones because they're not a phone company they're a software company.

What method do you propose that would be an effective way of telling consumers that they just need to use a browser when they've been using apps for several years now?