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07-12-2014 07:09 PM
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  1. rodan01's Avatar
    From what I think, allowing Android Apps is a complete surrender.



    ...



    Say we adopt Android Apps and Google Play in WP, say it works amazingly and 85% of installed Apps come from Android, and so the devs would see no reason in updating native Apps. And one Day Google breaks everything, Apps are not able to be installed into WP anymore, and the installed stop working. Windows Phone dies. Immediately. There's nothing worse than depending on someone else instead of having a reliable base for yourself. It happens all the time in production and commerce and it would happen with our OS.


    I thought Microsoft supporting the Nokia X was the complete surrender. There is a good chance that Nokia X could outsell Windows Phone in a couple of quarters and they're just starting with this platform.



    The probabilities of Google making a incompatible change to Android is low. The fragmentation of Android not only in versions (GB, ICS, JB, KK, L) also the huge user base of ASOP, ~30% and growing, make almost impossible that Google could do that. They would be crating a massive competitor.



    If they do it, Android is open source so Microsoft can continue the development of their own Android runtime. Developers wouldn't drop support to all the phones with older versions of Android, China, Russia, Amazon, Nokia X and WP.
    07-05-2014 11:00 AM
  2. Chregu's Avatar
    Why would anybody buy an Android app launcher that's probably pretty inefficient (at least BB couldn't make it work well) when they can have an Android phone hat offers better hardware for a lower price and more features to begin with?

    Design-wise everything Metro - as I see it one of the main differentiators - would be gone except for the homescreen. The same goes for Windows Phone's security, at least if it would offer the same possibilities for apps as on Android.

    I would only see two kinds of people left to buy Windows Phones: The ones who love the platform and already own Windows Phones and the ones that really despite Google services.
    07-05-2014 11:06 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    If I agree with everyone in this thread, with those who want Android apps on WP and those who despise the idea, am I then schizophrenic?

    If MS creates their own Android app store where any company or person can submit any Android app, then I'd agree with the nay-sayers. That would be the end of WP app development. Metro on mobile would be dead, and WP would be forced to abandon all hope of achieving UI consistency. Those supporting this approach need to explain what the point of WP would be after such a move. Seriously! IMHO MS would be better served killing WP if it ever came to that.

    On the other hand, if MS were very selective about which apps are admitted into their android app store, then the approach might make sense. Limiting admission to those apps which simultaneously:
    a) don't violate WP's security restrictions
    b) exist only to serve a very localized market
    could help WP get a lot of the apps it otherwise never would. That selection probably wouldn't include a lot of the apps people here are asking for though (for example, that would also exclude PeakFinder, the only Android app my fiance misses on WP)

    Simply admitting any Android app into the app store for which no native WP version yet exists sounds reasonable at first, but that would be just as disastrous as the first option without any restrictions. Such an admission-rule would cause a huge number of companies that already built WP apps to remove them from the WP app store, so they could consolidate on a single Android version. We'd also have to say goodbye to new WP apps, for the most part anyway.

    If MS ever decides to allow Android apps on WP, they need to be very careful not to setup an admission policy that instantly makes WP obsolete. I'm satisfied with WP8.1 right now. An unrestricted Android app policy is the only thing I can think of that would make me abandon WP in a heartbeat.

    I thought Microsoft supporting the Nokia X was the complete surrender. There is a good chance that Nokia X could outsell Windows Phone in a couple of quarters and they're just starting with this platform.
    Don't think so. First time I've heard anybody say that anyway. The problem most people have with the Nokia X series is understanding why it exists in the first place. Not understanding why it exists isn't the same as surrendering to Android however.

    I would only see two kinds of people left to buy Windows Phones: The ones who love the platform and already own Windows Phones.
    If MS introduces an unrestricted Android app policy, then I'm not sure what platform is left to love. At that point MS would have to introduce the same free-for-all (do and break whatever you want) model, meaning differences would be only cosmetic for the most part. WP might as well just be an Android skin at that point... like the Nokia X series.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-05-2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason: spelling
    Chregu and James8561 like this.
    07-05-2014 11:15 AM
  4. oliverr871's Avatar
    I've been on the Windows Phone platform since 2011 with my HTC Arrive and before that I had Android, and before that I had Windows Mobile. I currently switched back to Android and I am not sure that saying that the Android app-quality is poor can be a convincing argument. Not knowing what has been going on in the Android world for the past years, people's reviews and ratings of apps in the Play Store helped me to choose informed decisions of what apps I wanted on my phone.

    Needless to say, I don't have a problem with any of the apps and I certainly don't get a "Resuming" message and a crash if I wanted to go back to the app. Android has certainly come a long way from what it was when I was using it especially in speed, stability and battery life. I feel in order to be competitive, the applications cannot be missing feature/functionality that the iPhone/Android applications have. Windows Phone should market and put emphasis on entire experience of the OS (notification at a glance, ease of use) which is far different than the Android/iPhone experience.
    07-05-2014 11:54 AM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    Windows Phone should market and put emphasis on entire experience of the OS (notification at a glance, ease of use) which is far different than the Android/iPhone experience.
    An OS to do that is complete overkill. If that's all you want to advertise, an Android skin is all you need.
    07-05-2014 11:57 AM
  6. Ed Boland's Avatar
    While true, that too is irrelevant. MS doesn't need Google's permission or support to bring Android apps to WP.

    That would only be required if WP would integrate directly with the play store, but that isn't happening.
    Exactly what a lot of people (including some that have posted in this thread!) don't understand as they are referring to "Google Play store apps" coming to WP... No.. This has nothing to do with Google! If it happens, WP users will have access to the "Nokia X store apps"... Google doesn't "own" the Android Open Source project (what the Nokia X phone's OS is built on) and MS doesn't need permission from Google or anyone to do what they please with it.

    Android is and always has been a free and open source OS (like Unix/Linux). Google has their own version of it yes (they name it "Jellybean", "KitKat", or "L" etc etc) but the Android Open Source is free to use and modify by anyone as they see fit... WP users would have access to MS' own curated and quality controlled "X store" Android apps with MS services instead of Google's. I believe the WP OS will be updated to run everything natively as opposed to "side loading" or "emulating". I also believe the Nokia X2 phones are a very good example and indicator of what's to come if these "rumors" are true.

    And the big question of the devs and why they would develop for WP if their "Android" apps will already run on WP? Well they wouldn't have to any more.. No more begging these devs and companies to "please make a WP version" and when they see their apps running on WP hardware, they may finally be more inclined to develop a high quality WP version. If not, it won't matter anyway. The existing WP developers will continue to make apps for WP as they've done all along and if all goes according to plan (this rumored plan) the market share will rise and the playing field will be leveled.

    So why would anyone buy a Windows Phone then? Killer hardware. The best cameras, the sexiest devices thanks to former Nokia designers and engineers who now work for MS, and the broadest platform/ecosystem available.. Windows Phone will have the best of everything!

    Just thinking out loud here... Just my $.02
    go1020 likes this.
    07-05-2014 11:57 AM
  7. oliverr871's Avatar
    An OS to do that is complete overkill. If that's all you want to advertise, an Android skin is all you need.
    Why is it overkill? Windows Phone is already doing it, offering a different way of doing things compared with Android/iPhone.

    Android skins aren't going to make applications have the simplified "Metro" like design either.
    07-05-2014 12:04 PM
  8. jbfoster61's Avatar
    In general... To be honest the app gap doesn't really bother me.. So yea Android has more than us, but how many are functional? if they have one that is functional then i would love for one of our devs to work on a similar app, but most of them are just gimmicks that fill up their store.. Same goes for Iphone (I think)
    I don't think Android apps should be allowed on Windows Phone. I think it would slow down the progress of WP apps.

    WP, Android and IOS will have apps that are gimmicks but how would someone know how many?

    What makes you think most apps on Android and IOS are gimmicks?

    WP store about 255 thousand apps
    IOS Store about 1.2 million apps
    Android Store about 1.5 million apps
    07-05-2014 12:33 PM
  9. rodan01's Avatar



    If MS creates their own Android app store where any company or person can submit any Android app, then I'd agree with the nay-sayers. That would be the end of WP app development. Metro on mobile would be dead, and WP would be forced to abandon all hope of achieving UI consistency. Those supporting this approach need to explain what the point of WP would be after such a move. Seriously! IMHO MS would be better served killing WP if it ever came to that.






    People is too binary here. Maybe It's the fanboy gen that has this side effect.







    There are still incentives for native development. Native apps give a better experience, they produce an advantage over competitors, a native experience increase the usage, that means more money for the developers. Many companies already have a WP app and they are moving to universal apps, so they won't ditch their investment if the platform is growing.



    Adding support for Android apps would increase the sales of Windows Phone and the user base, that's a big incentive for native development.







    Probably Android would dominate in the number of apps, but native apps would dominate in usage time which is the important metric.



    Microsoft could concentrate their resources improving the native experience of the apps where the users spend 80% of the time when using the phone.
    And maybe build a Windows Phone UI layer on top of the Android runtime to give a Metro look to the Andrid apps.
    07-05-2014 12:37 PM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    Windows Phone should market and put emphasis on entire experience of the OS (notification at a glance, ease of use) which is far different than the Android/iPhone experience.
    An OS to do that is complete overkill. If that's all you want to advertise, an Android skin is all you need.
    Why is it overkill? Windows Phone is already doing it, offering a different way of doing things compared with Android/iPhone.
    Overkill means MS would be paying far too much for what you propose the differentiation between WP and Android should be. Developing WP costs MS between 500 million and 1 billion annually. That is far far far far far too expensive if the only difference between Android and WP is "the OS experience with notifications at a glance, ease of use, etc".

    If WP would admit any/all Android apps to run, and live tiles and the start-screen are the only remaining notable differences to an Android device, then there is no reason MS couldn't achieve that using an Android skin. MS could create a really awesome Android skin that looks just like WP for just a few million a year (probably much less after the first version is released). That difference in cost is what I call 'overkill'. There is no reason to spend that much on OS development if superficial UI differences is all you are aiming for.

    Android skins aren't going to make applications have the simplified "Metro" like design either.
    I don't get what you are trying to say here. You are the one arguing for Android apps on WP, not me. If you want Android apps on WP, you must be willing to sacrifice the UI design consistency WP currently enjoys.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-05-2014 at 01:24 PM. Reason: clarifications in second paragraph
    07-05-2014 12:53 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    I believe the WP OS will be updated to run everything natively as opposed to "side loading" or "emulating".
    For the most part, Android apps are built using java, and in that context, there really is no such thing as a native app. All Android java apps run inside the Dalvik runtime environment, which transforms the generic java byte code into something that can run natively. It's a two step process, and only in that later step are calls to device specific Lunix APIs inserted. Such an app on WP would just require its own equivalent of the Dalvik engine. Such apps on WP would be no more (or less) emulated than they already are on Android devices.

    So why would anyone buy a Windows Phone then? Killer hardware. The best cameras, the sexiest devices thanks to former Nokia designers and engineers who now work for MS, and the broadest platform/ecosystem available.. Windows Phone will have the best of everything!
    IMHO the killer hardware argument is a fantasy. The newest hardware is always available on Android devices about six months before it comes to WP. That isn't going to change. With the exception of Nokia's camera tech, WP has never been about the hardware. Furthermore, Nokia is expected to license their camera tech to anybody that wants it, not to mention that Nokia's former camera guru was recently hired by Apple. Hardware isn't what will sell WP devices. Except for the camera, it never has been.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-05-2014 at 01:16 PM. Reason: spelling
    07-05-2014 12:54 PM
  12. TerryB9999's Avatar
    In general... To be honest the app gap doesn't really bother me.. So yea Android has more than us, but how many are functional? if they have one that is functional then i would love for one of our devs to work on a similar app, but most of them are just gimmicks that fill up their store.. Same goes for Iphone (I think)
    I have to agree with a previous poster that you don not seem too familiar with the App Store or Play Store. My wife had an iPhone until recently. She is now using my old S3, and I have a Note 3, along with my 521, soon to be a 925.. So I think I am qualified to offer a comparison.
    The WP app store is FILLED with garbage. Do a search on a common app and just look at all the crap that comes up. Fake apps that just use the browser. Garbage "how to" apps, etc..
    Apple, as much as I hate their arrogant ways, has the app system down to a science. I may not agree with Apple's business practices, but they run a solid show that I have to respect them for.
    The play store is almost as good, but not as solid as Apple.

    WP app store has a long way to go.
    07-05-2014 01:04 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    People is too binary here. Maybe It's the fanboy gen that has this side effect.
    Something is wrong with that sentence. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

    There are still incentives for native development. Native apps give a better experience, they produce an advantage over competitors, a native experience increase the usage, that means more money for the developers. Many companies already have a WP app and they are moving to universal apps, so they won't ditch their investment if the platform is growing.

    Adding support for Android apps would increase the sales of Windows Phone and the user base, that's a big incentive for native development.

    Probably Android would dominate in the number of apps, but native apps would dominate in usage time which is the important metric.

    Microsoft could concentrate their resources improving the native experience of the apps where the users spend 80% of the time when using the phone.
    And maybe build a Windows Phone UI layer on top of the Android runtime to give a Metro look to the Andrid apps.
    I seriously doubt all of that.

    It's certainly not true for any of the software companies I've worked with. As long as you can reach the WP user base, reducing development costs trumps everything else. If you can offer the SAME experience (not a worse experience) on Android and WP at no extra cost, then you don't invest any money into a separate WP app. For the companies I know, that would be an incentive to drop WP app development.

    For all the big social apps like Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, etc, how good your app is on WP is almost irrelevant. All that matters is how good your app is on Android, and for some countries also on iOS. If you are the market leader on those platforms, then users on WP have no choice but to follow, no matter how poor your WP app may be.

    Like you say, Windows tablets might be a reason to develop a universal app for both WP and Windows, but with the market share Windows tablets currently have, that market is even easier to ignore than WP's is.
    07-05-2014 01:11 PM
  14. Ed Boland's Avatar



    IMHO the killer hardware argument is a fantasy. The newest hardware is always available on Android devices about six months before it comes to WP. That isn't going to change. With the exception of Nokia's camera tech, WP has never been about the hardware. Furthermore, Nokia is expected to license their camera tech to anybody that wants it, not to mention that Nokia's former camera guru was recently hired by Apple. Hardware isn't what will sell WP devices. Except for the camera, it never has been.
    I was referring to Nokia's outstanding build quality, design, and overall form when I said "killer hardware". As opposed to the cheap, flimsy, plastic-ey feel of most android phones. I know this is what sold me on the 920 when it came out.. it was built like a tank.

    Yes, I know Android phones always get the "Octa-core processors" and such first. Where Windows Phone doesn't need all that to run perfectly.

    Maybe I should have said "quality hardware"...
    07-05-2014 01:29 PM
  15. prasath1234's Avatar
    Now that Android is improving and it runs quite well in low end hardware, the advantages of WP are disappearing and the app gap is still huge.




    Windows Phone could die without apps. Android apps should be a priority for Microsoft.









    Android apps complement native development.



    Popular apps will always be native because they appeal to a number of users that justify native development to maximize the profits.




    For mid-size apps, that in WP have a subset of the features and many bugs, Android apps are a better alternative.




    Most of the small apps won't come to WP because developers can't finance the cost of development for such a small user base, so Android apps would be the only alternative.









    The OS is important only for geeks. People buy an experience and without apps Windows Phone is a lower quality product. Now that Android is good in low end hardware the reasons to buy a Windows Phone are harder to find.
    No way android are worthless in low end it lags nd force closes after some months of usage.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    07-05-2014 02:04 PM
  16. rodan01's Avatar
    Something is wrong with that sentence. I don't understand what you are trying to say.



    I seriously doubt all of that.

    It's certainly not true for any of the software companies I've worked with. As long as you can reach the WP user base, reducing development costs trumps everything else. If you can offer the SAME experience (not a worse experience) on Android and WP at no extra cost, then you don't invest any money into a separate WP app. For the companies I know, that would be an incentive to drop WP app development.

    For all the big social apps like Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, etc, how good your app is on WP is almost irrelevant. All that matters is how good your app is on Android, and for some countries also on iOS. If you are the market leader on those platforms, then users on WP have no choice but to follow, no matter how poor your WP app may be.

    Like you say, Windows tablets might be a reason to develop a universal app for both WP and Windows, but with the market share Windows tablets currently have, that market is even easier to ignore than WP's is.


    For small projects the Windows Phone app is usually low quality, lacks features and is abandoned after a few months. Users would be better served by Android apps. So, it's good for the platform if Android apps replace low quality apps in that segment.

    Although, some companies could decide to concentrate resources in WP trying to win over this smaller user base instead of competing in the crowded stores with many top quality apps. So, there are incentives for native high quality development even for smaller projects.



    For big apps it's not only a race for domination without profits. They need to make money and they need user engagement to make money. If there are 50 millions of WP users and 6 million of them are from US. It's an interesting user base to address. Add some growth to the platform and more money from MS that could concentrate their resources on top apps (if Android apps cover most of the ground), and you could get a good native apps from big developers.



    I think It's a mistake to analyze the problem from the perspective that WP will have 2% of market share, and falling, forever. The platform will die with the current trajectory.

    I think supporting Android apps is one of the last moves that could save this platform and initiate the growth process. In that scenario there are enough economic incentives for an app store in which native and Android apps coexist. Probably a big number of Android apps and fewer native apps including top apps subsidized by Microsoft. The more the platform grows the bigger the incentive for native development.
    07-05-2014 02:30 PM
  17. prasath1234's Avatar
    For small projects the Windows Phone app is usually low quality, lacks features and is abandoned after a few months. Users would be better served by Android apps. So, it's good for the platform if Android apps replace low quality apps in that segment.

    Although, some companies could decide to concentrate resources in WP trying to win over this smaller user base instead of competing in the crowded stores with many top quality apps. So, there are incentives for native high quality development even for smaller projects.



    For big apps it's not only a race for domination without profits. They need to make money and they need user engagement to make money. If there are 50 millions of WP users and 6 million of them are from US. It's an interesting user base to address. Add some growth to the platform and more money from MS that could concentrate their resources on top apps (if Android apps cover most of the ground), and you could get a good native apps from big developers.



    I think It's a mistake to analyze the problem from the perspective that WP will have 2% of market share, and falling, forever. The platform will die with the current trajectory.

    I think supporting Android apps is one of the last moves that could save this platform and initiate the growth process. In that scenario there are enough economic incentives for an app store in which native and Android apps coexist. Probably a big number of Android apps and fewer native apps including top apps subsidized by Microsoft. The more the platform grows the bigger the incentive for native development.
    Then why bb 10 os failed.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    07-05-2014 02:37 PM
  18. cbreze's Avatar
    Since a lot of WP users like me came from android and love the platform but dislike having to leave certain very useful apps behind, I think this is a good idea. Android has some great apps and so WP will potentially have even more great apps. Seems a win/win to me. Its not like its going to androidize our WP's, just going to give us more choices and choices are always good.
    07-05-2014 03:07 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    <snippe>
    I think It's a mistake to analyze the problem from the perspective that WP will have 2% of market share, and falling, forever. The platform will die with the current trajectory.

    I think supporting Android apps is one of the last moves that could save this platform and initiate the growth process. In that scenario there are enough economic incentives for an app store in which native and Android apps coexist. Probably a big number of Android apps and fewer native apps including top apps subsidized by Microsoft. The more the platform grows the bigger the incentive for native development. . .
    I'm not analysing this from the perspective you think I am.

    Our difference of opinion likely boils down to how much of a competitive advantage we think a native WP app would represent over an Android app running on WP.

    My view is that if the app was good enough to be popular on Android, and a real demand exists for that app on WP, then I see no reason why most people won't be happy with the Android version. Making most people happy, on a platform that is unlikely to reach 15% market share in the U.S. anytime soon, is more than good enough for most companies. I could actually imagine many people preferring the Android version, as familiarity trumps usability every time (again, for most people).

    If app X is the popular app on Android, I just don't see a lot of people choosing an alternative app on WP just because app X doesn't offer a native experience on WP. That is where I think you are going wrong. We here at WPC certainly would, but we are a minority.

    It also seems to me that you are ignoring how most companies think. Most will ask themselves this:

    Is it better to split my development budget of $200'000 between Android and WP, thereby improving both apps a little, or is it better to invest the entire budget into the Android app, thereby improving that app a lot, and then making that available on both platforms?

    Given that choice, I'm quite certain almost all companies would prefer the later, particularly because you just can't afford to lose market leadership on Android. The Android battlefield is where you have to win your battles, and if you actually do have competition, it's far more important to invest the resources you have into improving your Android offerings. Diverting your resources from the most important battlefields is the best way to lose a war.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-05-2014 at 04:17 PM. Reason: spelling
    07-05-2014 03:10 PM
  20. drachen23's Avatar
    Just to clear up what is meant by Android apps, there would be no Google Play store on the phone. Google would never allow that! What MS could do is what Blackberry did. They allowed developers to submit Android apps to the BB store as if they were BB apps. Android apps are written to run in a virtual machine, not on specific hardware, so MS could either put a Dalvic-compatible VM on their phones or recompile the app after submission so that it works on WP. I'd be surprised if MS hasn't already spent some time and money researching just this.

    Ultimately, it's a really bad idea and smacks of desperation. That's why Blackberry did it. On one hand, it would open up easy development for WP, on the other, it would just make WP a weird species of Android. That would pretty much end most WP-native development and destroy WP's design consistency, which is one of its major selling points. WP would become the same inconsistent design mess as Android. It would also put them in the same boat as HTC and Sony competing against Samsung only on hardware specs. Nokia/MS have some interesting ideas, but can't really compete in the high or mid-range as far as I've seen. Their best-selling device is the 520, not the 1520 or 1020. Even if they came up with the best hardware ever, they'd still be at a disadvantage. Their custom VM would always be behind the official Android version (they'd be making a copy feature-by-feature). Finally if they did add new features to their phone, like 3D touch, why would devs support it? It's different than stock Android and wouldn't work on non-MS handsets. If it does come down to that, it might be more profitable just to dump the hardware business and stick to selling Office, Skype and other software and services to Android and iOS users.

    Ultimately, I think their best bet is stay unique and to make it easier for devs to do real cross-platform development. They just recently bought a company that makes tools for Visual Studio that make it easier to make games using the cross-platform Unity game engine for example.
    a5cent and guillams like this.
    07-05-2014 04:20 PM
  21. rodan01's Avatar
    I'm not analysing this from the perspective you think I am.

    Our difference of opinion likely boils down to how much of a competitive advantage we think a native WP app would represent over an Android app running on WP.

    My view is that if the app was good enough to be popular on Android, and a real demand exists for that app on WP, then I see no reason why most people won't be happy with the Android version. Making most people happy, on a platform that is unlikely to reach 15% market share in the U.S. anytime soon, is more than good enough for most companies. I could actually imagine many people preferring the Android version, as familiarity trumps usability every time (again, for most people).

    If app X is the popular app on Android, I just don't see a lot of people choosing an alternative app on WP just because app X doesn't offer a native experience on WP. That is where I think you are going wrong. We here at WPC certainly would, but we are a minority.

    It also seems to me that you are ignoring how most companies think. Most will ask themselves this:

    Is it better to split my development budget of $200'000 between Android and WP, thereby improving both apps a little, or is it better to invest the entire budget into the Android app, thereby improving that app a lot, and then making that available on both platforms?

    Given that choice, I'm quite certain almost all companies would prefer the later, particularly because you just can't afford to lose market leadership on Android. The Android battlefield is where you have to win your battles, and if you actually do have competition, it's far more important to invest the resources you have into improving your Android offerings. Diverting your resources from the most important battlefields is the best way to lose a war.

    That's what I mean by binary. Android apps on WP is not a on/off switch. I guess MS can make a better job than BlackBerry, although I don't expect the Android apps running perfectly.
    Many apps depend on Native Android APIs or Google services. There will be bugs and performance issues in the implementation of the runtime. Other problems in the integration with the operating system: Live tiles, notification center, sharing interfaces, copy paste, file selection., background task, etc.
    So if they implement this thing we would have apps working perfectly, to app with perf problems, or bugs, or without integration with the OS, or with features that don't work, to apps that aren't compatible at all.

    There is a great variety of apps too, not all apps are social networks that have to win in Android to be relevant. For example, the best buy app it doesn't matter if they win in Android they need the best experience to convert 'visits' in sales. Or a newspaper app needs engagement to make money, a me too app doesn't maximize the profit in many cases.

    The design and esthetics is important in the consumer market. This factor make the difference in many cases. If the app break the predominant user experience it doesn't feel good, natural. Or it could have usability problems if the behavior is different compared to the apps where the user spend most of the time. A developer has just 30 seconds or a minute to capture the user before she just press the home button and forget the app forever.

    The size of the user base also make a big difference because the revenue depends on the number of users and the quality of the users.

    So, it's not a on/off situation. The decision to go native/android/html5 would depends on multiple variables that are changing all the time in a continuous range. This create an app store in which the three kind of app coexist.
    Last edited by rodan01; 07-05-2014 at 04:38 PM.
    a5cent likes this.
    07-05-2014 04:26 PM
  22. paulm187's Avatar
    If Android apps come to Windows Phone, that will be the final admission of failure and its time to bail out, learn from what happened to Blackberry. In fact I'm not buying a new Windows Phone and will continue to use my Nokia 920 until I know exactly where this platform is heading. My confidence in MS is at an all time low.
    07-05-2014 04:57 PM
  23. jailman's Avatar
    If i want android apps then ill stick to my android phone why would i use a a nokia
    07-05-2014 05:00 PM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    That's what I mean by binary. Android apps on WP is not a on/off switch. I guess MS can make a better job than BlackBerry, although I don't expect the Android apps running perfectly. Many apps depend on Native Android APIs or Google services. There will be bugs and performance issues in the implementation of the runtime. Other problems in the integration with the operating system: Live tiles, notification center, sharing interfaces, copy paste, file selection., background task, etc.
    So if they implement this.
    Okay, I see where you are coming from now.

    I completely agree with you that if MS screws up, by having Android apps on WP constantly trip over themselves or perform poorly, then there remains a reason to invest in native apps on WP. I just don't see any reason why MS should screw up in that fashion. If they do their job right, there will be absolutely no difference at all. Maybe not in version 1.0, but at the latest by version 2.0 of WP's Android runtime.

    Why? Firstly, because Java apps do not rely on any native Android APIs. None. Zero. Zilch. I'm not aware of any apps that rely directly on Google services either. I know of some that rely on Google's Maps API, or Java mail API, but I see no reason why MS can't replicate those.

    Like I said in an earlier post, there is no such thing as a native Java app on Android. All Java apps on Android run in a VM! As such, there is really no difference between running a Java app in a VM on Android and running a Java app in a VM on WP. Just as there is no difference between running a Java application on Linux or running it on Windows. Same thing. The runtime environments used by Android (Dalvik or more recently ART), are also both open source, so MS could even use the exact same VMs if they wanted to.

    Really, with the exception of bugs, there really is no reason whatsoever that Android apps on WP couldn't run just as well and just as fast as on Android. None.

    The design and esthetics is important in the consumer market. This factor make the difference in many cases. If the app break the predominant user experience it doesn't feel good, natural. Or it could have usability problems if the behavior is different compared to the apps where the user spend most of the time. A developer has just 30 seconds to capture the user before she just press the home button.
    Here we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally I'm totally with you. I see it that way too. I just don't think the majority of consumers do. IMHO just the fact that Android leads the market proves that most don't care that much about this issue.
    07-05-2014 05:00 PM
  25. Craigtrain's Avatar
    Microsoft has always had a swath of developers writing software for their platforms. They aren't used to developers turning their nose up at them, but that is exactly what is happening in mobile. It would be very shameful for them to enable Android apps to run on Windows Phone, it would make them look bad, and I don't think they would ever do that.
    07-05-2014 08:16 PM
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