07-12-2014 07:09 PM
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  1. rodan01's Avatar
    You can't just decide to give a word a meaning. Dementia as a word is well defined by all English dictionaries. I don't even know why we are discussing that, you have made a very bad choice of words, and now you are trying to avoid admitting it by behaving like a sulky child.

    But okay, I accept that, I empathize with you.

    .

    Wikipedia is not a dictionary, it's an encyclopedia. So, you should check a dictionary now, for example Merriam-Webster:

    Main Entry: dementia

    Pronunciation: \di-ˈmen(t)-shə, -shē-ə\

    Function: noun

    Etymology: Latin, from dement-, demens mad, from de- + ment-, mens mind more at mind

    Date: 1806

    1 : a usually progressive condition (as Alzheimer's disease) marked by deteriorated cognitive functioning often with emotional apathy 2 : madness, insanity <a fanaticism bordering on dementia>

    07-09-2014 09:54 AM
  2. Chregu's Avatar
    Wikipedia is not a dictionary, it's an encyclopedia. So, you should check a dictionary now, for example Merriam-Webster:
    You really don't get the point. Do you think stating that you use dementia as a synonym to insanity in this context makes things better, based on this? Did you read the rest of the page you are referring to?

    Just for your information: Dementia dictionary definition | dementia defined
    07-09-2014 10:00 AM
  3. rodan01's Avatar
    You really don't get the point. Do you think stating that you use dementia as a synonym to insanity in this context makes things better, based on this? Did you read the rest of the page you are referring to?

    Just for your information: Dementia dictionary definition | dementia defined

    Come on Chregu, you're off topic. There is an "Off Topic" forum where you can post a new thread to discuss that.
    07-09-2014 10:11 AM
  4. Chregu's Avatar
    Come on Chregu, you're off topic. There is an "Off Topic" forum where you can post a new thread to discuss that.
    I was answering to your on topic question, you went on posting off topic stuff. So please get back to topic.

    I'm still wondering how you would think these Android apps could be implemented in a way that keeps the Windows Phone experience intact. Do you have any ideas?
    07-09-2014 10:14 AM
  5. AG VK's Avatar
    I think of peeps want Android apps go buy a Samsung, HTC, etc. Android n iOS started out with no apps n they've done alright, so makes u think WP can't do the same???
    Sent from my Lumia 925 8.1
    Because when Android launched, there was only iOS as a competitor - it was available only on AT&T in the US and even the App Store wasn't that great. Verizon used Android as a defense against ATT's iPhones and that was what truly started off Android's growth. Secondly, all the Asian OEMs wanted to get their share of this pie but they really sucked at writing software (though their hardware is good). Android provided them a readymade OS which they could customise to their needs and the Galaxy series was born.

    Android and iOS basically settled the Old West, when there was little opposition and nobody stopped them. They have now built fortifications around their territory. WP's battle is more like storming the enemy's castle.
    tgp, a5cent and boxa72 like this.
    07-09-2014 10:16 AM
  6. rodan01's Avatar
    I'm still wondering how you would think these Android apps could be implemented in a way that keeps the Windows Phone experience intact. Do you have any ideas?
    If Microsoft is decided to base their strategy on Android apps they could integrate the Dalvik or ART as an Integral part of the OS, with the same level of support and performance than winrt. They could build APIs specific for WP, so Android developers could target the platform with a custom UI and allow them take advantage of the distinctive features of platform.

    Would developers go through this extra mille? It depends on the market share of the platform, the type of app, and other factors.
    Chregu likes this.
    07-09-2014 10:34 AM
  7. Wazzim's Avatar
    More choice, I like more choice. I really don't think this'll affect development of WP apps.
    07-09-2014 07:58 PM
  8. neo158's Avatar
    More choice, I like more choice. I really don't think this'll affect development of WP apps.
    The thing is that I look at this from the BlackBerry perspective, Android apps haven't increased their market share and now they have discontinued native apps for consumers.

    If BlackBerry had increased market share after implementing Android apps, then I could see a legitimate reason for Microsoft doing the same thing. As it is I just don't see a reason for it.
    boxa72 likes this.
    07-10-2014 04:17 AM
  9. boxa72's Avatar
    More choice, I like more choice. I really don't think this'll affect development of WP apps.

    You'll end up with no choice if that happens coz WP would die a slow n painful death just like BlackBerry. Out of curiosity how do u think Microsoft can do it if BlackBerry couldn't???
    07-10-2014 04:21 AM
  10. mpt15's Avatar
    You'll end up with no choice if that happens coz WP would die a slow n painful death just like BlackBerry. Out of curiosity how do u think Microsoft can do it if BlackBerry couldn't???
    Microsoft has a lot more resources than blackberry, and can invest in a loss making service for longer- till it becomes profitable or till they gain the marketshare and mind share that would make it viable.
    07-10-2014 04:32 AM
  11. Chregu's Avatar
    Microsoft has a lot more resources than blackberry, and can invest in a loss making service for longer- till it becomes profitable or till they gain the marketshare and mind share that would make it viable.
    But are they willing to do so?

    After all, as far as I know smartphones is BlackBerry's main business, while Microsoft, according to Nadella, is more interested in bringing their services to all mobile devices.
    07-10-2014 04:40 AM
  12. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    But wait, that's exactly what's happening, WP has 2% of market share. Everybody Is buying Android or iOS.

    Maybe Android apps could add value to the platform and increase sales.
    Android apps could also cause decrease value the platform and sales.
    07-10-2014 06:21 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    But are they willing to do so?

    After all, as far as I know smartphones is BlackBerry's main business, while Microsoft, according to Nadella, is more interested in bringing their services to all mobile devices.
    If the only way you can offer your services to your customers is by relying on competitors platforms and their willingness to play fair, then you've got a serious amount of risk on your hands. That instantly puts MS at a disadvantage. They can't integrate their services with the OS. They don't have control over the advertisement distribution channels. And competitors can make life very difficult for you if they want too (see YouTube fiasco).

    MS will continue to spend billions to mitigate that risk.
    Chregu, tgp, neo158 and 1 others like this.
    07-10-2014 07:29 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    If the only way you can offer your services to your customers is by relying on competitors platforms and their willingness to play fair, then you've got a serious amount of risk on your hands.
    There is indeed an immense amount of risk in doing this. From what I understand, BlackBerry used Android apps as a desperation move. They had to do something, and since they were circling the proverbial drain they had nothing to lose. Is Microsoft also considering it (assuming it's more than a rumor) as a last ditch effort?

    WP is actually growing, albeit very slowly. It seems that there might be an ultimatum that we haven't heard about, maybe from stockholders. Or maybe from Nadella. If Android apps don't help WP, is the door being slammed shut? Of course we don't know the answers yet, but it's going to be interesting to watch this whole thing spin out.
    a5cent likes this.
    07-10-2014 07:44 AM
  15. Soulstream's Avatar
    I don't think that Android apps will help WP. Hell it didn't help Blackberry at all and it had an Android runtime (although locked) from the very start (more than a year now). Maybe some shareholders are tired of waiting for WP to grow this slowly. But that's what happens when you are late to the party: slow and steady is the name of the game.
    07-10-2014 08:03 AM
  16. rodan01's Avatar
    BlackBerry sold less than 5 million devices before they collapsed financially after 2 quarters since the launch of BB10. With such a small user base native development was minimal and Android developers didn't publish their apps in their store. They didn't have apps at all. The initial implementation of the Android support was awful.



    Only a few weeks ago BlackBerry made and agreement to pre-install the Amazon store in BB10 devices, so, they have a more interesting strategy, they're launching a low-end device in the growth markets and sales are improving. Now BB10 has better apps than WP.
    07-10-2014 08:15 AM
  17. MikeLip's Avatar
    I don't think that Android apps will help WP. Hell it didn't help Blackberry at all and it had an Android runtime (although locked) from the very start (more than a year now). Maybe some shareholders are tired of waiting for WP to grow this slowly. But that's what happens when you are late to the party: slow and steady is the name of the game.
    BB can run Android apps. *SOME* of them. And when they are running well, they are fine. And in practice they are nearly indistinguishable from native OS10 apps. Except that since they have to launch the android layer, they take forever to start. But still, that's nothing throwing more hardware at the problem and some optimization won't solve. So while the ideal would be to have every app run native on WP8.1, and android machine running under WP would be an OK workaround. What annoys me about that though is the workaround on BB is clunky and slow, and I doubt Google would be all that interested in making the cross platform experience any better for WP users. They sure haven't been for BB users. And since Microsoft and Google aren't exactly best buds, I don't see it happening. So yes, I am sure MS could make it work. But unless Google was willing to tie some of their services to MS, I think that some of the apps which require Google Play services will never run - and those are some of the best apps.
    07-10-2014 08:22 AM
  18. rodan01's Avatar
    BB can run Android apps. *SOME* of them. And when they are running well, they are fine. And in practice they are nearly indistinguishable from native OS10 apps. Except that since they have to launch the android layer, they take forever to start. But still, that's nothing throwing more hardware at the problem and some optimization won't solve. So while the ideal would be to have every app run native on WP8.1, and android machine running under WP would be an OK workaround. What annoys me about that though is the workaround on BB is clunky and slow, and I doubt Google would be all that interested in making the cross platform experience any better for WP users. They sure haven't been for BB users. And since Microsoft and Google aren't exactly best buds, I don't see it happening. So yes, I am sure MS could make it work. But unless Google was willing to tie some of their services to MS, I think that some of the apps which require Google Play services will never run - and those are some of the best apps.

    Google has nothing to do with the BlackBerry implementation. Android is open source, BlackBerry integrate the source code in their OS.
    MS doesn't need Play services, they have their own services.
    a5cent and fatclue_98 like this.
    07-10-2014 08:29 AM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    BB can run Android apps. *SOME* of them. And when they are running well, they are fine. And in practice they are nearly indistinguishable from native OS10 apps. Except that since they have to launch the android layer, they take forever to start. But still, that's nothing throwing more hardware at the problem and some optimization won't solve. So while the ideal would be to have every app run native on WP8.1, and android machine running under WP would be an OK workaround. What annoys me about that though is the workaround on BB is clunky and slow, and I doubt Google would be all that interested in making the cross platform experience any better for WP users. They sure haven't been for BB users. And since Microsoft and Google aren't exactly best buds, I don't see it happening. So yes, I am sure MS could make it work. But unless Google was willing to tie some of their services to MS, I think that some of the apps which require Google Play services will never run - and those are some of the best apps.
    What device did you experience this slowness and clunkiness? On 10.2.1 the application is linear and inperceptible. Oh, btw, the only apps that don't work are the Play-based apps. Any AOSP app works perfectly.


    Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums
    07-10-2014 09:23 AM
  20. guillams's Avatar
    With that argument, It'd be also ridiculous to buy a WP now, without Android apps. WP has a fraction of the apps and most of them are low quality, lacking features, with many bugs.
    Just buy an Android that has high quality apps with all the features.


    But wait, that's exactly what's happening, WP has 2% of market share. Everybody Is buying Android or iOS.


    Maybe Android apps could add value to the platform and increase sales.

    Let's see from a real point of view!

    A lot of people to my knowledge, has Iphones and androids phones because they are popular, advertized and promoted.
    Bunch of those users just use the popular apps which almost every OS has, even Sailfish and Firefox.. Let's say 30% of users cares about App and USA, UK, etc, are those big markets when Apps really cares (I use this as an example)
    So, where WP is having those problems, are those markets, people like me don't buy flagships because they're f**Ing expensive (India and Brasil are an example how WP is growing)
    Stability, good prices, are the skills for the success of WP in those markets, don't get me wrong, I want more apps on my lovely OS but, also there are things in risk if they going like this!

    More Advertising strategy in emerging markets to attract people s what MS should be doing, so the circle, no users, no apps, can be broken with those markets when apps are not the deal break except for the popular ones!
    07-10-2014 08:21 PM
  21. rodan01's Avatar
    Let's see from a real point of view!

    A lot of people to my knowledge, has Iphones and androids phones because they are popular, advertized and promoted.
    Bunch of those users just use the popular apps which almost every OS has, even Sailfish and Firefox.. Let's say 30% of users cares about App and USA, UK, etc, are those big markets when Apps really cares (I use this as an example)
    So, where WP is having those problems, are those markets, people like me don't buy flagships because they're f**Ing expensive (India and Brasil are an example how WP is growing)
    Stability, good prices, are the skills for the success of WP in those markets, don't get me wrong, I want more apps on my lovely OS but, also there are things in risk if they going like this!

    More Advertising strategy in emerging markets to attract people s what MS should be doing, so the circle, no users, no apps, can be broken with those markets when apps are not the deal break except for the popular ones!


    Most of the people that use only the popular apps or don't use app at all still care about apps because geek friends or sales representatives, that do use a lot of apps, try to convince them to choose Android or iOS. The prospective buyer change their mind understanding that the platform lacks a key feature.

    Microsoft would lose a lot of money if they advertise heavily low-end phones because margins are too low, and if you want 'good prices' the situation is even worst.

    The value of the users is related to their disposable income, the value of users from emerging markets is a fraction of the value of users from developed countries. Google has 80% of market share but iOS still has better apps and get the apps first. If Microsoft reach 10% of market share mostly from emerging markets, that would improve the app situation, but It won't solve the problem.

    The only way to close the app gap is supporting Android apps.
    07-11-2014 10:11 AM
  22. neo158's Avatar
    Most of the people that use only the popular apps or don't use app at all still care about apps because geek friends or sales representatives, that do use a lot of apps, try to convince them to choose Android or iOS. The prospective buyer change their mind understanding that the platform lacks a key feature.

    Microsoft would lose a lot of money if they advertise heavily low-end phones because margins are too low, and if you want 'good prices' the situation is even worst.

    The value of the users is related to their disposable income, the value of users from emerging markets is a fraction of the value of users from developed countries. Google has 80% of market share but iOS still has better apps and get the apps first. If Microsoft reach 10% of market share mostly from emerging markets, that would improve the app situation, but It won't solve the problem.

    The only way to close the app gap is supporting Android apps.
    I disagree that supporting Android Apps is the only way to close the "app gap".

    It's admitting defeat, it would tell me that Microsoft can't get the apps natively so they've given up on their own app store and decided to use an Android app store instead.
    Last edited by neo158; 07-11-2014 at 12:09 PM.
    07-11-2014 10:49 AM
  23. guillams's Avatar
    Most of the people that use only the popular apps or don't use app at all still care about apps because geek friends or sales representatives, that do use a lot of apps, try to convince them to choose Android or iOS. The prospective buyer change their mind understanding that the platform lacks a key feature.



    Microsoft would lose a lot of money if they advertise heavily low-end phones because margins are too low, and if you want 'good prices' the situation is even worst.



    The value of the users is related to their disposable income, the value of users from emerging markets is a fraction of the value of users from developed countries. Google has 80% of market share but iOS still has better apps and get the apps first. If Microsoft reach 10% of market share mostly from emerging markets, that would improve the app situation, but It won't solve the problem.



    The only way to close the app gap is supporting Android apps.

    You're wrong dude!

    See how many apps are launched every week on India, because WP is going to everybody hands.
    Iphone get the apps first because is popular in big markets as USA, where lots of big companies and developers are, in the case of Android, the user base matters!
    Android apps on WP is not a great solution right now and if things keep going to MS maybe never!
    07-11-2014 11:08 AM
  24. rodan01's Avatar
    You're wrong dude!

    See how many apps are launched every week on India, because WP is going to everybody hands.
    Iphone get the apps first because is popular in big markets as USA, where lots of big companies and developers are, in the case of Android, the user base matters!
    Android apps on WP is not a great solution right now and if things keep going to MS maybe never!
    Developers want money, they target the platform and markets that maximize their benefit.

    Apple has a low market share, but most of their users have high income and spend a high amount of money in digital goods, like apps.
    Google dominates in market share with an 80%, most of their users have low income, but if you add them they produce a lot of money.

    Windows phone has the deadly combination. The market share is even lower than Apple's and most of their users have low income. The probability of getting the apps or improving the quality of the apps is: 0%.
    07-11-2014 11:50 AM
  25. guillams's Avatar
    Developers want money, they target the platform and markets that maximize their benefit.

    Apple has a low market share, but most of their users have high income and spend a high amount of money in digital goods, like apps.
    Google dominates in market share with an 80%, most of their users have low income, but if you add them they produce a lot of money.

    Windows phone has the deadly combination. The market share is even lower than Apple's and most of their users have low income. The probability of getting the apps or improving the quality of the apps is: 0%.


    One coment to your coment: lol
    07-11-2014 01:48 PM
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