07-21-2014 10:47 AM
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  1. Great deal's Avatar
    I also use ESPN F1 and its very good.

    They are way too slow to implement any action to reduce app gap and it will cost em.

    How many people are gonna use cloud services when mobile data is so expensive?
    Cloud is for people with unlimited data and thats a bees **** percentage.
    Yay the cloud
    No!!!
    Yay you can't afford decent storage which is light years faster.
    Expensive is all relative - Here in the UK there are plans that offer unlimited data, some offer 8GB etc and with WiFi that's more than enough. Most people store documents in the cloud and they use next to no data anyway, I store Pics, vids and music in the cloud too and travel extensively and never go above 4gb of data usage a month while watching Netflix, streaming music, surfing when im out of wifi range of hotels etc. The tech companies are not moving into the cloud space due to a limited customer base, quite the opposite.
    07-11-2014 10:27 AM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    All of these are terrible reasons. The issue is, and will remain, that Microsoft joined the game 3 years too late with Windows Phone 7, then gutted that user base 2 years later, basically meaning that they jumped into the market 5 years late. What's worse, they did it without match the competition in features, let alone apps and games. I can pretty much explain why each point is crap too, if necessary.

    1. The 1020 isn't a flagship phone. Its SoC is from early-2012, so it's a fancy camera in a mediocre phone (by 2014 standards). The Galaxy Note 3 and the emergence of other large devices from Sony and LG show that people absolutely will buy the oversized devices that are coming out. I mean, Apple's not rumored to go to 6 inches with he new iPhone for no good reason. Meanwhile, the whole "no glance or SD" is crap because Android doesn't have glance in its stock devices. Apple's never had glance OR SD support. They've both just built a consumer base that requires apps on the platforms, which keeps the customers happy and on those platforms. It's not glance or SD support.

    2. That's an overstatement, when talking OEMs. We saw LG and HTC involved with WP7. We've seen ZTE and Huwaei around. We've had Samsung lead WP7 at the start. The OEMs care, but when it's not making business sense because of market share, you can't expect them to deliberately lose money on R&D for new devices, pay for licensing, then get the old "we only like Nokia" response from the Windows Phone supporters. As for the consumers, they don't care because of the app selection. It's not just "people don't care," it's that the OS lacks growth for hardware makers and it lacks the apps for customers because the app developers aren't seeing growth. What it boils down to is still the lack of apps, not "no one cares."

    3. Design is not the problem. Look at the iPhone. It took, what, 5 years to stretch slightly? The Galaxy S IV was almost the same thing as its predecessor. Because so few are with Windows Phone, the Lumia design would still be fresh to them, and the color options help to keep that stale rectangle look nice across a group of users. The devices all have some differences between them, as we've seen the high-end with sharp edges and the low-end have the rounded ones, while including thick bodies for wireless charging (920), metal bodies (925), camera bumps (1020), and some other things. I don't think a curved display is going to fix anything.

    4. Wireless charging was and is SO much better than those crap examples you gave. Those things don't make the platform. It's the apps, that's the problem. They could get all of those things into the Windows Phone 8 devices, and it wouldn't matter without app developers who use them. Again, wireless charging is there, as is great camera optics. The 3D Touch is allegedly coming, whatever it might be as well, and the 630 had that new Sensor Core or whatever for fitness tracking, and I imagine it will be improved upon and added to t he next device.

    5. I've experienced and read about enough Lumia durability to call this crap. The iPhone's glass back once had issues where it'd crack when some tighter-fitting cases were put on it, and those phones have been notoriously fragile forever. I don't even know what to say.

    6. Wearables still aren't popularized, and they're confirmed to be in-the-works, basically. Apple's surviving with no watch, as are the non-Samsung OEMS with Android, as they are JUST making such things. Android Wear is just emerging, so the market's not exactly flooded with purchases or convincing products.

    7. This is the reason, it's going to continue to be the reason as well. This and platform familiarity/history are the reason. The previous 6 points are garbage things on the furthest-back burners possible to most consumers. My grandma didn't take her Windows tablet back for an iPad because of that other stuff, she took it back because Words with Friends and her slot machine apps weren't present. My sister's friend didn't switch to Android because of a curved display, she was sick of not having apps. My sister doesn't complain that her 822 isn't waterproof, she complains it doesn't have an official Pinterest or FitBit app (though the third-party ones suit her fine).

    This is what the WPC forums seem to be covered in though, users who think they know "the answer," which is just a ridiculous click-bait thread with the same, rehashed crap as always. We don't have the apps to draw the masses. That's the problem, shut up about the rest.
    Great deal, Ian Too, tgp and 1 others like this.
    07-11-2014 10:29 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    Read my post again. I didnt say that WP is a poor platform.
    I read it again, very carefully, and I've concluded that it is not my reading that requires improvement. You said: "WP offers nothing at [this] time." A mobile OS that offers nothing is by definition a poor platform. That may not have been what you meant, but it is what you said.

    What is so good in WP that they should reject their Google or iOS accounts start all over again?
    I already gave you a incomplete list (updates would be another important issue). I'd suggest you go back and read my post

    That list might not interest you, but it does interest me and many others here at WPC. I'd suggest we let everyone have their preferences, without claiming that any specific set of preferences make more or less sense... they don't... that is why they are preferences. Okay?
    Chregu and snowmutt like this.
    07-11-2014 10:35 AM
  4. Ian Too's Avatar
    Hi Abdul,

    Thanks for your post, I agree with some and disagree with other of the points you've made, but what I take from it was that you really want to replace your current Windows Phone with another. I suspect that if Sony had released a Windows Phone version of the Z2, you'd have bought it and I'd be right there with you. That however, isn't Microsoft's fault it's Sony's, and as an owner of several of their products, I can say it's their loss too. Please start a thread about Sony's lack of support for WP restricting your choice - I'll see you there.

    Where I disagree is that Microsoft have been slow. They did the brave thing and started from scratch with Windows Phone and so have been playing catch-up. With the release of 8.1 WP will gain some measure of parity with Android and already there is talk of the first update to 8.1 approaching RTM. It is a real achievement of the Windows Phone team that they have delivered an OS which is rock solid and around which some pretty amazing things can be able to be done, like a 41MP camera. Yes, there are issues like Xbox music, but these are peripheral to the OS, important as they are to individual users.

    Your question to one of your responders about why consistency between different make of Windows Phone is probably best answered two ways:Firstly, this consistency allows app developers to design a good experience without having to worry about Touchwiz eating half the memory and blocking optimisation on a more efficient device like a Nexus. The other reason consistency is good is that to get a good experience with Android, you have to buy the right device, which means you have to be some sort of expert - knowing for instance to buy a Moto G or a Nexus. Whatever Windows Phone device you buy, it will work well and you won't need a phd to make it secure either.

    Just as Sony are to blame for not giving you the option to buy a WP version of the Z2, Google are to blame for not supporting their consumers who chose to own a Windows Phone. Estimates put the WP user base at 50,000,000 so it's no longer tenable to argue that it's not economic to support the platform. Rather, you should ask why Google care so little for your custom as to reduce you to piggy in the middle in their war with Microsoft.

    To me, the lack of Google involvement with WP is a plus for the platform in the same way as having fewer apps is a plus when so many are gambling apps or pornography. My standing advice to everyone is not to use Google devices and services because when all is said and done Google are the biggest security breach of them all. There's nothing an Android could do that would make me use one and I used to be a big fan of Google, back when all the were was a search engine.

    My final point is that WP is not dead in the water by any means, the release of new devices and apps in India show how well WP has been received there and in many places like here in the UK WP has significant penetration. It was always going to be an uphill battle against iOS and Android, but WP is gaining momentum. With Cortana and innovative new flaships like MacLaren able to boost WPs image, things pick up further.
    07-11-2014 10:42 AM
  5. Abdul Rahman Noor's Avatar
    All of these are terrible reasons. The issue is, and will remain, that Microsoft joined the game 3 years too late with Windows Phone 7, then gutted that user base 2 years later, basically meaning that they jumped into the market 5 years late. What's worse, they did it without match the competition in features, let alone apps and games. I can pretty much explain why each point is crap too, if necessary.
    ...
    This is what the WPC forums seem to be covered in though, users who think they know "the answer," which is just a ridiculous click-bait thread with the same, rehashed crap as always. We don't have the apps to draw the masses. That's the problem, shut up about the rest.
    And clearly YOU alone know the reason; and everything everyone else says that disagrees with that is c**p.
    What an attitude!
    ziggy3055#CB likes this.
    07-11-2014 10:43 AM
  6. etphoto's Avatar
    Yawn. . . another WP will fail thread. This isn't rocket science. If WP sucks go to another platform.
    Al4video and paulsalter like this.
    07-11-2014 10:50 AM
  7. Chregu's Avatar
    Yawn. . . another WP will fail thread. This isn't rocket science. If WP sucks go to another platform.
    I think the discussion is very interesting and I'm glad that we all can have different opinions and talk about it. Yes, it's true, I will most likely go to another platform in fall, but that doesn't mean that I'm not interested in the opinion of people that stay with it, or that want to switch to it, or also want to leave. I'm also interested whether people want to leave for good or if they plan on coming back for whatever reason.

    If you are not interested in it that's great, I don't see any reason for you to post here then.
    Great deal and ziggy3055#CB like this.
    07-11-2014 10:53 AM
  8. Abdul Rahman Noor's Avatar
    Hi Ian,

    Thanks for your response.
    I agree, and I think the biggest problem with WP is that its too good to leave behind, despite its flaws.
    That right there, is why we have so many threads pointing out its shortcomings - because deep within, everyone using WP wants it to succeed.

    If it were a truly horrific, f*8ked up platform, people wouldn't bother starting multiple threads 1) saying they're leaving 2) pointing out flaws and 3) expressing their doubts...
    ...they would just throw away their phone and leave.

    I hope this might be able to explain to some of the loyal fanbase here who are so blinded by their love for WP that they need to mock anyone pointing this out and ask them to "just leave if you're unhappy".

    Finally, as I've said numerous times: I'm not blaming anyone (Microsoft or Google or Sony) for the current situation, but the fact remains that this *is* the current situation - and something we need to live with.

    Cheers!

    p.s. An XPERIA Z2 with WP 8.1 would be surreal! :)
    07-11-2014 11:01 AM
  9. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    I think all of OP's arguments are consistent with WP being "dead in the water" at the present moment. That presumes the strict definition of dead in the water as not making any current progress. The mistake would be extrapolating that conclusion to the future. The landscape will certainly be considerably different this fall with the release of new phones. In addition, anyone who projects the imminent demise of WP before seeing what will result from Microsoft's purchase of Nokia's assets is just being impetuous.
    snowmutt, a5cent and Great deal like this.
    07-11-2014 11:22 AM
  10. Shad0wguy's Avatar
    07-11-2014 11:25 AM
  11. Chregu's Avatar
    Well, there might be a problem for normal customers:

    Retail pricing starts at $1,300.
    (That's a actually a repost from this thread...)
    07-11-2014 11:43 AM
  12. CSJr1's Avatar
    Okay, I know this sounds harsh, and I realise I'm gonna get a lot of negativity, but I ask you to hear me out and let me know what you disagree with objectively.

    1. Limiting choice of phones
    2. No one cares about WP
    3. Monotonous designs
    4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.
    5. No rugged or waterproof phones
    6. Doesn't work with wearables
    7. Misses official google apps; and games/apps in general.

    .

    Cheers!
    I will be objective.

    1. Limiting choice: 930,1020, and 1520. These are three flagships while iOS has 1. If you count the 5c then 2. But then you neglect the 5xx,6xx,8xx phones, the BLU phones. Mabye not as many as Android, but a good median.

    2. No one cares about WP. I care. If you mean OEM, then there are OEMs that have recently launched new phones.

    3. Monotonous design. All phones are not polycarbonate.

    4. No brag-able feature. 41MP. Xbox live integration

    5. No rugged phone: Lumia 620 IP54 Certified Now Available in Finland! | Nokia Revolution

    6. Doesnt work with wearables: Now no. Couple weeks with official 8.1 Bluetooth LE will enable Fitbit

    7. No Official Google Apps: This is on Google, not Microsoft.
    snowmutt and forked like this.
    07-11-2014 11:55 AM
  13. snowmutt's Avatar
    At the risk of sounding a bit negative myself, WHEN did wearables become such an issue? By the way, MS is working on them, so even if they are important they got us covered.

    The lack of new devices is a bit annoying. Make everyone a deal: If MS and it's OEMs do not start getting things announced and moving on new goodies by the fall and Holiday buying seasons, I will join the the bashers. Until then, let's just give the lack of new toys a one time pass. Let's face it, from the dozens of WP7 devices at launch, through the Mango update, the announcement of WP8 and so on, there has always been a slew of phones out. This is a lull, and if it is a one time thing then no harm no foul.

    So far, I am still waiting for all the stories to come tumbling out that sales for WP are dropping. Yes, they are only at 4-5%, but they have climbed consistantly. If they make it past this "lull" without losing any marketshare, then they have weathered their toughest storm yet and that is reason for encouragement, not leaving a platform if it works for you.

    Rugged WP's? Oh, I am with you on that one. Been begging for one since looking longingly at the Casio G'Zone Android Cammando at Verizon while I was still rocking my Samsung Focus S. I will continue to ask for one. I work in a "kill your phone" industrial enviorment. Cases are good, a designed rugged phone is usually better.

    Overall, I get it. All the rumors and inactivity give way to these threads. Again, this is the place for them. But I truly believe with the CEO change, Nokia purchase,the recently announce OEMs added that want the latest WP 8.1 before finalizing thier offerings (developer previews are not the same as finalized released to manufacturers versions), and the continued march of apps being added to the Store that WP is not "dead in the water".

    I think it is the calm before the WP storm. See those clouds? That is my favorite OS, about to unleash some nature on the top two OS's and continue the flooding into their douopoly. I see the next few years doing for WP what the last few did- double up on sales and push some top end devices that run as smooth as a just churned butter and mid-range devices that bury their offerings in performance and value.

    Buy a canoe, Google and Apple.
    07-11-2014 12:02 PM
  14. Chregu's Avatar
    1. Limiting choice: 930,1020, and 1520. These are three flagships while iOS has 1. If you count the 5c then 2. But then you neglect the 5xx,6xx,8xx phones, the BLU phones. Mabye not as many as Android, but a good median.
    The 1020 is about as much a flagship as the 808 is...

    I think the comparison with the iPhone is always a little difficult. You are right, iPhones are expensive, there's only one flagship (actually, there's the 5S and the 5C and if rumors are true there will be a cheaper 4.7 inch and a more expensive 5.5 inch version of the iPhone 6), they might have limited features, but it doesn't matter. Apple still manages to sell them like hot cakes.

    Also, naming the Xbox live integration as a bragable feature might be a touchy subject at the moment...

    More mobile Xbox games delisted as Windows Phone struggles to find its way | Windows Phone Central
    ziggy3055#CB and MDMcAtee like this.
    07-11-2014 12:07 PM
  15. Citizen X's Avatar
    4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.

    ...like self-healing back panels. Heart rate monitors. Fingerprint scanners. Or even curved displays.

    Yes, some of these are just gimmicky, but the sad reality is that we like gimmicks. In a world where 160 character conversations and 2 minute attention spans are fast becoming the norm, people like new, fancy things to show off, and then move on to the next big thing.
    A lone Samsung phone (Ativ SE) has an IR blaster. And a few Lumias have PureView which is awesome and is not a gimmick, but cameras arent everything, and almost seem like a one trick pony at this stage.
    iphone owners envy my 1520's camera. The camera is used A LOT unlike the other gimmicks you mentioned on other phones. I personally have never seen anyone talk about "self healing back panels" nor use a heart rate monitor nor fingerprint scanner. I keep my phone in my pocket so a curved display like some of the ridiculous LG phones is impractical. I have a Lumia 1520 so for long conversations I go with Bluetooth.

    5. No rugged or waterproof phones

    A long running gag is that Nokia phones can break through walls; but jokes aside, I dont know any WP device thats really weather-proof or built to take on the environment.
    Sure, we have aftermarket cases that achieve this, but not everyone wants to cover their nice-looking phone in a military-grade case just to make it dust/waterproof.
    Maybe Samsung is finally getting with the program but in the past if you every picked up a Samsung and compared it to a Nokia the difference was night and day. I frequently saw Galaxy Note's with broken back covers half snapped off in at&t stores. Samsung's build quality was terrible.

    Cell phones are rapidly becoming commoditized. You are nitpicking and distorting all this stuff because when it comes down to it the Lumia phones have the exact same processors in them as the Samsungs. You just want to skip over the better camera which is a central feature of the device and go on about gimmicks Samsung has because you want to slander Windows Phone. If you asked me what I use my phone for my response would be phone calls, email, web surfing, taking pictures, and consuming media. My phone trounces any and all iphones for all those things. There is an app gap. Yes Windows Phone has the major apps but it is missing a lot of niche apps. That is a fair complaint. But to call the camera a one trick money is a bit much. That is like saying the better battery life in the 1520 is a "one trick pony." The camera is a key component. The rise of the cell phone camera has decimated the camera industry. None of the other features you say the Lumia's are missing have devastated a ubiquitous industry.
    BobLobIaw and Al4video like this.
    07-11-2014 12:12 PM
  16. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    WP...isn't dead...not yet...but,needs consolidation
    07-11-2014 12:13 PM
  17. Draganta's Avatar

    or that we have better-than-the-official-app alternatives for YouTube and so on, but it doesnt change the fact that WP does not have official google apps, and this matters to a lot of people.
    No, people don't care about whether it is official or not. It just needs to work, that's it. I don't know what your source of this is, but my source is my years of experience as a usability tester / interaction designer. Most people don't know who makes stuff, as long as it works, and delivers the experience.
    07-11-2014 12:17 PM
  18. Chregu's Avatar
    No, people don't care about whether it is official or not. It just needs to work, that's it. I don't know what your source of this is, but my source is my years of experience as a usability tester / interaction designer. Most people don't know who makes stuff, as long as it works, and delivers the experience.
    When I open the store and search for "Youtube" there are 4 hits that cost something, then "Tube Pro" that's the first and only hit being free. The next result is "Video" from Microsoft. None of these apps have the name Youtube.

    I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that people would prefer a free Youtube app that has the name Youtube.
    Arka1412 and WillysJeepMan like this.
    07-11-2014 12:20 PM
  19. MikeSo's Avatar
    #4 and #7 in the OP are the things I agree with. The rest, meh.

    WP needs some gimmick (other than the camera, which is boooring as a marketing tool) to sell phones. Samsung had their fake file transfers in the ads, iPhone has had various things. WP hasn't really had much "wow" things to market. The thing is, it doesn't even have to be that USEFUL. It just needs to LOOK like it is.
    07-11-2014 12:22 PM
  20. Al4video's Avatar
    The 1020 is about as much a flagship as the 808 is...

    I think the comparison with the iPhone is always a little difficult. You are right, iPhones are expensive, there's only one flagship (actually, there's the 5S and the 5C and if rumors are true there will be a cheaper 4.7 inch and a more expensive 5.5 inch version of the iPhone 6), they might have limited features, but it doesn't matter. Apple still manages to sell them like hot cakes.

    Also, naming the Xbox live integration as a bragable feature might be a touchy subject at the moment...

    More mobile Xbox games delisted as Windows Phone struggles to find its way | Windows Phone Central
    I think you are missing the bigger point. Who really gives a crap what the OP thinks about WP? Choosing a phone and a platform is a personal choice. Those who bought windows phone aren't stupid, they were well aware of it's strengths and it's weaknesses. I knew about the shortage of apps and the market share, what I would give up and what I would gain. The OP's post would only make any sense if he was buying phones for all of us. But since we all paid for our own phones with our own money based on intelligent decisions, his post makes zero sense. Unless someone reading this was stupid enough to purchase a phone of any OS without first doing your homework.
    07-11-2014 12:24 PM
  21. Chregu's Avatar
    I think you are missing the bigger point. Who really gives a crap what the OP thinks about WP? Choosing a phone and a platform is a personal choice. Those who bought windows phone aren't stupid, they were well aware of it's strengths and it's weaknesses. I knew about the shortage of apps and the market share, what I would give up and what I would gain. The OP's post would only make any sense if he was buying phones for all of us. But since we all paid for our own phones with our own money based on intelligent decisions, his post makes zero sense. Unless someone reading this was stupid enough to purchase a phone of any OS without first doing your homework.
    You would be surprised how many people buy a phone in a store just because they like it, at least that's the impression I get from many threads in this forum.

    So, are you saying that the sells people that don't recommend Windows Phone are right? Because a person should know exactly what phone they want to buy, and if they don't it's better to be on the safe side and recommend a phone without app gap? That's what I would do in their position, easy sell instead of trying to explain how great Windows Phone is despite the app gap.

    I think you demand a lot of people that have not a deeper interest in these things. My girlfriend doesn't even understand the concept of a smartphone OS and she is the last year of her science PhD.

    Additionally I think it would be very important for Microsoft to keep the current users, because they are a big part of the market share they have now and they want to have in the future. As you can see in this forum, many of these people are frustrated at the moment, including me. Are we the minority? I honestly don't know.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-11-2014 12:34 PM
  22. jleebiker's Avatar
    That is quite possibly one of the ugliest phones I have ever seen.
    /tangent alert
    This is one of my beef's. Ruggedized phones that LOOK like ruggedized phones, i.e. Looks like this monstrosity. What happened to subtle? Look at the S5 Active for example. It's sleek. Modern looking. None of the rough edges like that Panasonic (I read the part that they are not marketing to consumers, but enterprise customers). But yet it still is IP67, MIL-STD 810, GG3. AND doesn't NEED an external case.

    Getting back to the OP.
    1) There are tons of these posts. Every time it stirs the pot.
    2) It's just a phone people. You're not married to it. It's a TOOL just like any other tool. Find the one that best suits your needs.
    3) Just because Toyota makes a pickup doesn't mean my Chevy Camaro is any LESS a great car. Same thing for phones. Just because one vendor makes something, doesn't mean MINE is any less good for me.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    07-11-2014 12:50 PM
  23. MikeSo's Avatar
    If there's one mantra that can sum up the WP community, its:
    "Please be patient; we're getting there...soon...I think"
    Oh come on. It's the same with EVERY community. Have you looked at iPhone or Android sites? Or for that matter, sports team sites... it's always about complaining about one's own product while enviously looking at what the others have and saying WE SHOULD HAVE THAT.
    That's just the nature of fandom, internally (externally it's a whole different ballgame...).
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-11-2014 12:52 PM
  24. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    First of all Android is selling because it's cheap no because is unique. If that was the case they would be doing great on the high end market. But I have to give it that it's Apple territory, can WP get into that yes it can, it's going to be hard but nothing is written in stone yet. Naddella: "We're going to fight Google and Apple head on." I am so happy to see the new leadership at MS' headquarters shaking thins up dumping the good old habit and focusing on us the consumer.
    BobLobIaw and Al4video like this.
    07-11-2014 02:11 PM
  25. DER1996's Avatar
    I don't really think that's true , I mean the only mobile OS that's truly dead in the water is one that has been discontinued e.g. : webOS .Even thugh windows phone does have its flaws , it has the accelerating development cycle and the wide availability of the updates to redeem them . That an Wp 8.1 has just been released officially and Update 1 is near completion and threshold is looming on the horizon I don't think WP is really dead in the water , it simply is lacking some bits ... but with the major reorgs going on and MS being a cash cow I think it's too early to consider it dead, and I know it has been falling recently ( a normal part of the smartphone cycle which happen to every platform ) but I think new phone releases are what it needs to make it go up again is new phones , which are aiming for holiday releases and will hopefully be a success , especially the Kinect phone because that really seems revolutionary....
    07-11-2014 02:36 PM
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