07-21-2014 10:47 AM
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  1. Chregu's Avatar
    First of all Android is selling because it's cheap no because is unique. If that was the case they would be doing great on the high end market. But I have to give it that it's Apple territory, can WP get into that yes it can, it's going to be hard but nothing is written in stone yet. Naddella: "We're going to fight Google and Apple head on." I am so happy to see the new leadership at MS' headquarters shaking thins up dumping the good old habit and focusing on us the consumer.
    I thought the Galaxy S5 sold not too badly, and if I remember correctly the HTC One did pretty well too.

    Samsung reports it has sold 11M Galaxy S5 since launch - CNET

    HTC One M8 returns HTC to profit - News - Trusted Reviews

    How much greater do you want them to do? :-)
    07-11-2014 02:47 PM
  2. MarCou's Avatar
    I read it again, very carefully, and I've concluded that it is not my reading that requires improvement. You said: "WP offers nothing at [this] time." A mobile OS that offers nothing is by definition a poor platform. That may not have been what you meant, but it is what you said.
    I meant that WP itself is not a bad OS. I meant that it does not have any ecosystem to offer. Others have scales, fitbit, body composition scales, car integration, even grill thermomether. And, yes, apps.

    I already gave you a incomplete list (updates would be another important issue). I'd suggest you go back and read my post
    That list might not interest you, but it does interest me and many others here at WPC.
    Yes, read it. And I admit that you may be right. I dont start to argue with you which one have better UI. It would be endless threat. And neither of us would be right.

    I if you read my original post once more, I didnt say being waterproof is the only thing that matters in my world. I dont even have a waterproof phone. I said, that it could be a big deal for someone. And that someone takes waterproof phone. He cant take it from WPs assortment, cos there isnt one. So, everyone who wants waterproof phone is out of WPs game. And someone who wants a big choise of apps, but dont need waterproof phone... you know the rest.

    And there still stands a bigger problem. You see, peoples dont buy UI or OS. They dont buy anymore phones. They buy a part of an ecosystem. And moreover they buy a possibility to ecosystem. What would you answer, if someone asks you that is there a scale, body measurement scale, is there a free spotify, or even a grill thermomether that is able to connect to this WP thing? If you say yes, you have to lie. They probably never buy a one. But they want to know that it is possible. You cant in most of the cases turn their heads just by telling abaut better UI.

    When Elop came to Nokia, he told a lot of abaut ecosystem. Still there stands almost none. Even none of my gyms equipmet supports WP, most of them support iOS or Android.

    No ecosystem, no nothing. And one smartwatch cant save this situation anymore.


    I'd suggest we let everyone have their preferences, without claiming that any specific set of preferences make more or less sense... they don't... that is why they are preferences. Okay?
    I wasnt claiming abaut bad choises. I was answering the thread why WP is lying in a standing water. And you cant deny that it is.

    And of cos they dont make any sense. These are very emotional oriented things. Where ever you go peoples are arguing these same things, cars, ice-hockey, football, phones, what ever. It is just a part of a game. None of us is really right. Everyone have their own specific needs and most of us knows that very well. It is just a kind of entertaintmen for us all. We just wanna speculate with these things and want to tell our opinion and point of view. And it was just my five penny.

    And I want to highlight that fact, that only thing that matters is, that everyone is liking his own phone. There is no matter is it waterproof, how big its marketshare is, how many apps there are or how good camera there is. If you like your own phone, it is right choise for you.

    So, it is okay.
    Carl Erics likes this.
    07-11-2014 02:49 PM
  3. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    And clearly YOU alone know the reason; and everything everyone else says that disagrees with that is c**p.
    What an attitude!
    Because the problem has been the same from the start. Nothing's changed. You're blaming things that are missing from the competition (glance and SD support) and doing things that the competition is doing (unoriginal design). You're calling a phone running on 2-year-old parts a flagship.

    It's annoying coming here for intelligent conversation, only to get the same "this is why it's failing," "this is how you fix it," and "this is why I'm leaving" crap that you and countless others get bumped to the top of the activity feed. It needs to stop because none of the stuff people are bringing up is new or different or original or a cure-all. It's redundant and frustrating to have this crap cover the forum.
    BobLobIaw, Geddeeee and Al4video like this.
    07-11-2014 02:53 PM
  4. herbertsnow's Avatar
    You're all backseat CEO's.
    07-11-2014 03:00 PM
  5. Chregu's Avatar
    You're all backseat CEO's.
    I'm not. I can comfortably sit here and point fingers. I don't know how to make it better, I could bring up some ideas, but in the end I don't know what makes Microsoft acting like Microsoft. Bad analysts (we can start here again making the same round) and a lot of greed I guess.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-11-2014 03:04 PM
  6. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    I thought the Galaxy S5 sold not too badly, and if I remember correctly the HTC One did pretty well too.

    Samsung reports it has sold 11M Galaxy S5 since launch - CNET

    HTC One M8 returns HTC to profit - News - Trusted Reviews

    How much greater do you want them to do? :-)
    The did sell well but overall Android it's known for being cheap very cheap. That's the only unique thing about it.
    07-11-2014 03:05 PM
  7. Guytronic's Avatar
    Why WP is dead in the water
    Dead in the water?
    The WP might be a little short circuited now while MS scrambles to pull certain features together.
    All this technology and mobile device marketing has created the "want it now" society.

    Wanting everything now and in perfect working order is hard to do.
    Anyone that has ever held a job or deals with the consuming public should know this.

    Bottom line:
    Microsoft is just like anyone else...the company will go where the money is.
    07-11-2014 03:05 PM
  8. Chregu's Avatar
    Bottom line:
    Microsoft is just like anyone else...the company will go where the money is.
    Only a little bit slower. herbertsnow's comment actually made me think a little bit about this (I only talk about customer based products, I don't know much about their business products).

    Smartphones

    Microsoft had an awesome smartphone OS, Windows Mobile. When Apple released the iPhone it was a dumbphone, it had laughable features in comparison to Windows Mobile and everybody thought, why would the normal customer need a smartphone anyway? Microsoft felt safe and sound with its business mobile offerings.

    A few years later, things had changed. Apple made the smartphone good and everybody wanting one, and Android was already trying to catch up. Microsoft had still Windows Mobile in pretty much the same state as before. So they panicked, they released Windows Phone, a for the times very refreshing design on top of a... dumphone. They didn't even take the time to implement basic functions like copy & paste. They rushed this thing that much, that they started to move the platform to the NT kernel pretty much in parallel. No wonder there were almost no new features for either Windows Phone 7 or Windows Phone 8. It took them 4 years to release the first real feature update, and they still haven't caught up.

    Tablets (and Desktop)

    Nobody wants a tablet. Microsoft knew back in the times, after all they released multiple of them running Windows. When Apple came and presented the first iPad it was seen as a joke. Who would want such a thing? But people started to buy it. Again, Google tried to catch up pretty early, with in the beginning terrible products but they took their marketshare over the years. Microsoft again ignored this development for a long time, until they decided, woah, there's a market for tablets out there. Only that they didn't have an ecosystem. So they thought they are clever, they put a touch input surface on Windows 7 and included a closed Store. People need new computers, they would eventually get Windows 8, they would hopefully get used to it and with this huge user base people will start to use the apps that also run on tablets! They also compiled Windows 8 for ARM, but as they had no Office app (the touch iPad app is more important after all), they left the desktop to run the ARM compiled Office.

    Unfortunately, the people who bought Windows RT tablets got confused and people buying a computer still wanted to use their mouse and keyboard.

    This lead to pretty much the end of RT tablets and made Microsoft to bring back the Windows 7 interface step by step.

    Of course there came one good thing out of it: Tablets that can run a full Windows. I give Microsoft that. Let's see how successful they will become over the years.

    Xbox One

    That's a very good example for "going where the money is" but only in a very small pace while breaking every promise and changing every thing that "can't be changed" on the way. DRM and Kinect are the keywords here.

    Office

    I really don't know how Office 365 has caught on. I haven't heard bad things about it. I think it's great. So one customer product I really can't say anything against ;-)

    ----------------------------

    All of this is of course how I see these things. I really might be off here and I'm sure you'll tell me your disagreement :-)

    Edit: I almost forgot to include the smartwatch they discontinued in 2008 ;-)

    http://www.cnet.com/news/time-runs-o...-spot-watches/
    Last edited by Chregu; 07-11-2014 at 03:49 PM.
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    07-11-2014 03:35 PM
  9. cj-m's Avatar
    is there not, but only one basic iphone design?
    07-11-2014 03:46 PM
  10. Geddeeee's Avatar
    The only thing that is dead in the water, are any users that believe WP is 'dead in the water'!!!
    If you think that, then please go to a different platform and stop bothering those of us that still think WP is current and the best overall OS to use on a smartphone.

    So what if we don't have the highest specs or market share or any of the other things you supposed 'experts' keep trotting out on a regular basis.
    You are quite clearly blinkered and easily swayed by the I.T. 'hack media'. It is a disease that is afflicting the modern 'hipster' culture!!!
    The people that believe WP is succeeding will continue to do so, and I'm sure in 5 years when WP is dead centre of the mobile industry, we can say 'Told you so....'

    Now, begone!!!! LOL....
    07-11-2014 04:18 PM
  11. Geddeeee's Avatar
    You're all backseat CEO's.
    They don't even qualify for 'backseat CEO'.
    Maybe 'I.T. media rumour believing drones...'.
    Guytronic and b23h like this.
    07-11-2014 04:21 PM
  12. hope4wp's Avatar
    I don't think Microsoft trying to make a VM into WP or an Android Lumia is wrong...

    We asked for it....all we could see in every site is WP doesn't have apps....app gap! There now that it's doing something about the so called app gap....we (again) come into action whining about Microsoft being a loser....

    Like I always say we will never be satisfied....we always get something to whine about!

    I realize WP has problems.... I'm not denying it.....but it's safer than Google...period!

    And we developers try hard to make apps....but if you still want to go on about app gap....there's no one who can please you....it's not Microsoft's fault that it doesn't have apps(actually it does have apps!!).

    Sent from my Yellow Minion using Tapatalk
    Geddeeee and Guytronic like this.
    07-11-2014 04:21 PM
  13. jleebiker's Avatar
    I think another thing to consider in posts like these (and there have been many of them) is the audience. They are generally written by someone who is passionate or at least a "power-user" of a smartphone. Then they are generally replied to by the same audience. While we may want something more out of a device and are more critical when it doesn't deliver, for 90% of the people out there, they could care less.
    As long as it fits their budget and what they want to do, they could care less WHAT the device/OS is.
    Those of who frequent these types of forums are NOT the target market for the vendors. Like it has been said before, companies follow the money.
    07-11-2014 04:22 PM
  14. Geddeeee's Avatar
    Well the thing that a lot of people forget is that in 4 years, WP has gained 4 % market share.
    That is incredible as they were coming from zero marketshare. And where did that 'market share' come from?

    That would be the 4% that iOS and Android have lost to WP. It puts it into perspective when viewed that way.

    It may not seem like a lot, but the fact they have taken this share from the other platforms proves that WP has, and will continue to be, a resounding success!!!!
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-11-2014 04:30 PM
  15. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    I do know this much...there are folks at Microsoft that routinely read what's posted on this forum,so for the folks who get tired of folks posting things like this,tdb....get use to it or don't open the thread and complain..

    Secondly if anyone really believes WP is dead..they are wrong..it's going through a tough time because of someone at Microsoft is screwing up again,but hopefully things like this will get fixed..if it doesn't..then decide if you want to stay or go..

    Third..I know I could fix their phone division and make it viable not only here in the USA but world wide if given real input to the top...and here is one sure fired way...I would fire ever marketing staff and hire Apples marketing firms to do all adds and flood all the medias with them..

    I would strike a deal with Apple and Google that will benefit WP users immediately first,before giving away another dime to either of them..we don't need their market share,we take the new phone owners first,by giving them the best of all platforms in one place.look at the numbers of brand new phone owners,and stop worrying about converting their existing customers...they will come when WP is better than theirs

    This would be done on my first week......
    07-11-2014 04:47 PM
  16. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    When I open the store and search for "Youtube" there are 4 hits that cost something, then "Tube Pro" that's the first and only hit being free. The next result is "Video" from Microsoft. None of these apps have the name Youtube.

    I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that people would prefer a free Youtube app that has the name Youtube.
    I think you're close.

    Non-official apps are a stop-gap, not a solution. First, there's security. I am not likely to provide log in information for website content access (such as YouTube, Facebook, etc.) to an unofficial app. I don't know what that app is doing. Second, official apps provide a consistent experience. If the website changes APIs or protocols, an unofficial app may become non-functional until the app is updated. Updates to official apps are coordinated with website changes.

    I find it sad that the bar continues to be lowered for WP. The consensus seems to be that any app that functions is "good enough" and invalidates any complaint about the absence of an official app.

    If WP users settle for anything, that's what they'll get.
    Abdul Rahman Noor likes this.
    07-11-2014 04:53 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I think you're close.

    Non-official apps are a stop-gap, not a solution. First, there's security. I am not likely to provide log in information for website content access (such as YouTube, Facebook, etc.) to an unofficial app. I don't know what that app is doing. Second, official apps provide a consistent experience. If the website changes APIs or protocols, an unofficial app may become non-functional until the app is updated. Updates to official apps are coordinated with website changes.

    I find it sad that the bar continues to be lowered for WP. The consensus seems to be that any app that functions is "good enough" and invalidates any complaint about the absence of an official app.

    If WP users settle for anything, that's what they'll get.



    I've never used Android, but how long did it take for official apps for Android to be as good as official apps for iOS?





    Many of the official apps for Windows Phone just seem to be thrown out haphazardly, with no concern if they even work properly. For instance, the latest official Twitter app update causes duplicate notifications, which aren't present in Twabbit or MeTweets. The 3rd party developers care enough to release usable products, but the big companies just throw out junk without doing proper QA testing.
    Last edited by Laura Knotek; 07-11-2014 at 06:41 PM.
    07-11-2014 05:21 PM
  18. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    I think in order to assess where WP is and where it can go in the future we have to look understand the company that is behind building it. MSFT is the most dynamic software company out there. They have their hands in almost every aspect of the computer technological industry and for the most part are doing very well. What program suite is used more than Office? Is Xbox 360 not the most utilized gaming console in the world? What server interfaces to big enterprises use more than Microsoft? Then you add Bing, which took over the second place spot from Yahoo a few years ago. Then there's WP who took the third place over Blackberry earlier this year. From an business CEO perspective you can't fault MSFT for any of their moves. They are a business first and foremost with their hands in more things then anyone else in their industry. With that being said, I do think that there is a growing awareness that the conventional thinking that made MSFT so successful in the past needs a facelift and that is happening slowly but surely. There has definitely been mistakes made in the past that has alienated developers and general consumers. Business is a bloody game. All in all I think MSFT is headed in the right direction when it comes to WP. As far as limited choice of phones, I guess for me it's about quality, not quantity. Case in point the iPhone pretty much puts on a new phone a year, and then recently added a Siri variant. They don't need to put out multiple phones. Andriod does but you're looking at canabalized versions of Andriod represented by each OEM. That just shows you how open sourced Andriod is, and why I don't use it. The 920, was the first "flagship to run WP8, and is retrospect can still hold its own in most cases with some of the top tier phones even now, 2 years later. Nokia has built quality phones so there really is no need for a wide selection of phones. HTC has moderate success with their phones as well. As MSFT has gotten more aggressive with WP so has the response with OEM's. By the end of this year you'll see at least 10 OEM's pushing WP. That's pretty good. I don't know if I'd say 4% marketshare is something to really brag about, but it's a far cry from not caring. In a market saturated by iOS and Andriod, for WP to continue to grow is saying that somone indeed does care. Monotonous design? It was the design of Nokia phones that made them so popular, and so durable. Here's a question...how can you tell the difference between two iPhones next to each other....answer...the type of crack on the screen...The reality is that WP's are some of the best built phones. Customer satisfaction ratings prove it. The fact that WP is designed around you is the show off feature. My WP is different from everyone elses. It's a direct reflection of the typ of person I am, and it's what gets people enquiring about it all the time. If you're buying a WP looking for an iPhone or some variant of Andriod, let me save you the trouble..you'll be disappointed. You need to look at WP from another perspective. You can count the number of waterproof phones on one hand. That's like saying WP don't have heart rate monitors. LIke others have mentioned...wearables are only now getting more common trend so it's no surprise that there aren't any for WP, though that is rapidly changing. There quite a few applications for WP that can be accessed from smart watches. Home decor and improvments is another area that WP is really getting some traction on. As others have mentioned...it's the APP GAP that is what is keeping most away from WP, and honestly I can't blame them. You know what you like and if you like certain apps, you're going to have to understand they may not be available on WP. Now there are some very good third party apps, and some pretty nice exclusive games that I like but I'm only one person. One thing that has become a trend is the points of argument have begun to have less traction...that indicates to me in addition to an increase (albiet slow) in marketshare, that WP is definitely not dead in the water, they have been treading for some time, surviving, now they are starting to swim with iOS and Andriod. We'll see if they will actually be able to win the race.
    Al4video, Carl Erics and snowmutt like this.
    07-11-2014 06:24 PM
  19. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    No...xbox is not the most utilized game console in the world the PlayStations are. They had the lead from the beginning
    07-11-2014 06:42 PM
  20. muneshyne21's Avatar
    It must suck to be Microsoft right now. Consumers keep jerking the carrot away just as they get close to reaching it.
    We need copy paste.
    Done. :
    We need more tiles and customization.
    Done.
    But we also need a pull down menu.
    Done.
    But we also need a digital assistant.
    Done.
    But we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have more than that so we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have even more apps so we need them too.
    Sigh...How bout a 41 mp camera?
    But its not as fast as the iphone. We need more features to make it unique.
    How about better sound recording, more sensitive screens, guaranteed OS upgrade paths. A Compartmentalized OS who's separate components can be addressed and updated individually so you don't have to wait for your carrier to approve a giant upgrade you may never get. Dont like the music app? We can upgrade it every week until we get it right instead of waiting a year for At&t to approve the upgrade.
    But I dont like the music app NOW!
    Yeah that's why we are updating it twice a month. Does Android or Apple do that with the things that their users hate?
    But it doesnt have everything that Android Has.
    It has features that Android doesnt have
    But it doesnt have everything Apple Has.
    It has features that Apple doesnt have.
    But it doesnt have more than both Android and Apple combined.
    WP actually has a setup that potentially can.
    But it hasnt happened the moment I blink and snap my fingers
    You suck. You are slow and you dont listen to anything I say.

    F-me....
    07-11-2014 06:54 PM
  21. Guytronic's Avatar
    It must suck to be Microsoft right now. Consumers keep jerking the carrot away just as they get close to reaching it.
    We need copy paste.
    Done.
    We need more tiles and customization.
    Done.
    But we also need a pull down menu.
    Done.
    But we also need a digital assistant.
    Done.
    But we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have more than that so we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have even more apps so we need them too.
    Sigh...How bout a 41 mp camera?
    But its not as fast as the iphone. We need more features to make it unique.
    How about better sound recording, more sensitive screens, guaranteed OS upgrade paths. A Compartmentalized OS who's separate components can be addressed and updated individually so you don't have to wait for your carrier to approve a giant upgrade you may never get. Dont like the music app? We can upgrade it every week until we get it right instead of waiting a year for At&t to approve the upgrade.
    But it doesnt have everything that Android Has.
    It has features that Android doesnt have
    But it doesnt have everything Apple Has.
    It has features that Apple doesnt have.
    But it doesnt have more than both Android and Apple combined.
    WP actually has a setup that potentially can.
    But it hasnt happened the moment I blink and snap my fingers


    F-me....
    You feelin' it too LOL
    I hear ya my friend...
    07-11-2014 06:57 PM
  22. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    It must suck to be Microsoft right now. Consumers keep jerking the carrot away just as they get close to reaching it.
    We need copy paste.
    Done.
    We need more tiles and customization.
    Done.
    But we also need a pull down menu.
    Done.
    But we also need a digital assistant.
    Done.
    But we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have more than that so we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have even more apps so we need them too.
    Sigh...How bout a 41 mp camera?
    But its not as fast as the iphone. We need more features to make it unique.
    How about better sound recording, more sensitive screens, guaranteed OS upgrade paths. A Compartmentalized OS who's separate components can be addressed and updated individually so you don't have to wait for your carrier to approve a giant upgrade you may never get. Dont like the music app? We can upgrade it every week until we get it right instead of waiting a year for At&t to approve the upgrade.
    But I dont like the music app NOW!
    Yeah that's why we are updating it twice a month. Does Android or Apple do that with the things that their users hate?
    But it doesnt have everything that Android Has.
    It has features that Android doesnt have
    But it doesnt have everything Apple Has.
    It has features that Apple doesnt have.
    But it doesnt have more than both Android and Apple combined.
    WP actually has a setup that potentially can.
    But it hasnt happened the moment I blink and snap my fingers

    F-me....
    inb4 "We need Candy Crush"
    muneshyne21 and snowmutt like this.
    07-11-2014 06:59 PM
  23. guillams's Avatar
    It must suck to be Microsoft right now. Consumers keep jerking the carrot away just as they get close to reaching it.
    We need copy paste.
    Done. :
    We need more tiles and customization.
    Done.
    But we also need a pull down menu.
    Done.
    But we also need a digital assistant.
    Done.
    But we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have more than that so we need more apps.
    Done.
    But now they have even more apps so we need them too.
    Sigh...How bout a 41 mp camera?
    But its not as fast as the iphone. We need more features to make it unique.
    How about better sound recording, more sensitive screens, guaranteed OS upgrade paths. A Compartmentalized OS who's separate components can be addressed and updated individually so you don't have to wait for your carrier to approve a giant upgrade you may never get. Dont like the music app? We can upgrade it every week until we get it right instead of waiting a year for At&t to approve the upgrade.
    But I dont like the music app NOW!
    Yeah that's why we are updating it twice a month. Does Android or Apple do that with the things that their users hate?
    But it doesnt have everything that Android Has.
    It has features that Android doesnt have
    But it doesnt have everything Apple Has.
    It has features that Apple doesnt have.
    But it doesnt have more than both Android and Apple combined.
    WP actually has a setup that potentially can.
    But it hasnt happened the moment I blink and snap my fingers

    F-me....

    Best comment in this threat!
    07-11-2014 07:01 PM
  24. Al4video's Avatar
    It goes without saying that Microsoft makes billions each year off Android. And will continue to do so.

    Microsoft will make $3.4 billion from Android in 2013 - Neowin

    I do miss my banking app and my credit card swiper...(Square,Pay Pal, Quicken) But I have a Samsung Tablet and a Apple Retina Ipad.

    Since getting the Luimia 1520 I hardly use either of them. But when I need to make a deposit or do some swiping I bring them out. Those are the only real must have apps for me. And if I wanted to I could run either one of those on a no name Android tablet.

    I use TubeCast Pro to control Google ChromeCast with no lag at all and it looks great on my huge TV. It's a great YouTube alternative as I probably have close to 300 videos on YouTube.

    Almost everything else I need is built into the OS are available pretty cheap in the app store. Nokia gives you a $25 credit to use in the app store when you register your phone. You could purchase at least 15 good apps with that.
    I know a lot of people miss cluttering their phone with a bunch of crappy free apps. Get over it!
    muneshyne21 and Carl Erics like this.
    07-11-2014 07:01 PM
  25. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    inb4 "We need Candy Crush"
    I suppose that shows how far WP apps have come. It used to be "we need Instagram" and now it's "we need Candy Crush."
    07-11-2014 07:02 PM
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