07-21-2014 10:47 AM
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  1. FinancialP's Avatar
    Don't know where you guys have been or witnessed. Compared to previous versions of Windows Phones/windows mobile; Windows Phone 8 is actually developing at a rapid rate.

    So even I can give Microsoft some credit.
    07-12-2014 12:57 PM
  2. muneshyne21's Avatar
    Haha, looks like I caused a little ruckus on Reddit with my crying post. I feel like Emperor Palpatine. "Good...Goooood...let the hate flow through you!" In actuality, I'm trying to bring balance to this discussion...granted in a very sarcastic way.
    07-12-2014 02:34 PM
  3. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Think back 6 or 7 years ago:

    Nokia was selling billions of handsets and the company was the undisputed no1 and worth hundreds of billions of dollars - now it has been sold for $7bn (and mostly for it IP). Who predicted that?

    How many people predicted that Blackberry, who owned the enterprise space so completely would basically have gone out of business within a few years? It was unthinkable!

    When Android 1.0 was released, all I remember reading from "experts" was that it would never be able to break the dominance of Nokia, Blackberry and Apple - now look at it

    How many people outside of south korea were even aware that Samsung made phones, let alone thought about buying one? Now they are everywhere with multiple products in every household.

    Even 2 or 3 years ago:

    how many people thought Apple's global market share would be fall to the 10's of %?

    Be honest. How many people thought tablets were a stupid, pointless, over sized smartphone that couldn't make phone calls? (I did). It's incredible to think that the 1st iPad has been around only 4 years!

    Going back a little further, how many people thought touchscreens on phones were pointless and would never be a success? (I did)

    The point is, people are rubbish at predicting the future. Especially in a volatile and fast moving, fast changing industry like the tech industry.
    Most are rubbish, but not all. But you have to look past the puff editorial pieces (and paid adverts masquerading as "news articles") to see it. That's the thing... if a person is a fan of a company or product they tend to gravitate towards stories that are positive. And those that aren't fans, aren't interested in stories about them.

    For every incident you cited, there were preceding warning signs that some reported on. But those few got shouted out as "trolls" and "haters".

    That's the nature of tech online news.


    The world in general is inherently unpredictable. How many "experts" saw the 2008 financial crash coming? You know, of all those tens of thousands of people who get paid a lot of money to predict that kind of thing (and are still being paid to predict that kind of thing even though they missed to biggest most important event for 80 years). How many? 1 or 2 and they were laughed at.
    There were many more who knew what was going to happen in 2008. I was one of them. I made decisions that were deemed "unwise" by the experts at the time, but made absolute sense to me. When the dust settled, I was, relatively speaking in pretty good shape whereas my contemporaries were facing financial ruin. I take no pleasure in that, but I AM thankful.

    Others that knew what was coming (and there were many in the real estate, banking, and investing sectors) made decisions to minimize or eliminate their losses.


    We have no idea if WP will succeed or fail. Just wait and see and enjoy the ride and take every prediction as nothing more than guesswork, because the chances are that something completely unthinkable will happen next week or next month or next year and the entire theory will be blown apart.
    There are some of us who have a very good idea of what's going to happen to WP.
    07-12-2014 03:12 PM
  4. gwinegarden's Avatar
    You know, I find these WP forums fascinating.

    Back in the day, when I used Blackberry, I spent a fair amount of time on the sister site. Even when things were at their darkest, most people were very upbeat, "we will come back", "we're still the best", "soon everyone will realise that BB is awesome", etc.

    Fast forward to my going to WP. Over here it's "windows phone sucks!", "Microsoft sucks", "Nokia sucks", "WP doesn't have (insert your favourite, and possibly obscure app, here) and without it I cannot live another day" , "we're all doomed", "the sky is falling", ad nauseam.

    I really wonder if whiners select WP because they feel it give them more opportunities to whine.
    07-15-2014 02:53 PM
  5. Jas00555's Avatar
    You know, I find these WP forums fascinating.

    Back in the day, when I used Blackberry, I spent a fair amount of time on the sister site. Even when things were at their darkest, most people were very upbeat, "we will come back", "we're still the best", "soon everyone will realise that BB is awesome", etc.

    Fast forward to my going to WP. Over here it's "windows phone sucks!", "Microsoft sucks", "Nokia sucks", "WP doesn't have (insert your favourite, and possibly obscure app, here) and without it I cannot live another day" , "we're all doomed", "the sky is falling", ad nauseam.

    I really wonder if whiners select WP because they feel it give them more opportunities to whine.
    On the flip side though, those same Blackberry fans who go "oh, we'll come back and rule" also get made fun of a lot online and are sometimes the butts of peoples jokes as being "blind fanboys".

    I personally welcome justifiable criticism of Microsoft. It lets them know that they're lacking in some areas as opposed to "oh, everything is perfect" that I see on other forums.
    07-15-2014 03:07 PM
  6. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    You know, I find these WP forums fascinating.

    Back in the day, when I used Blackberry, I spent a fair amount of time on the sister site. Even when things were at their darkest, most people were very upbeat, "we will come back", "we're still the best", "soon everyone will realise that BB is awesome", etc.

    Fast forward to my going to WP. Over here it's "windows phone sucks!", "Microsoft sucks", "Nokia sucks", "WP doesn't have (insert your favourite, and possibly obscure app, here) and without it I cannot live another day" , "we're all doomed", "the sky is falling", ad nauseam.
    Ah, so you are of the opinion that there are no legitimate criticism of Microsoft, got it.

    I really wonder if whiners select WP because they feel it give them more opportunities to whine.
    Well at least you're acknowledging that isn't because it is a superior platform.
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-15-2014 03:15 PM
  7. muneshyne21's Avatar
    Ah, so you are of the opinion that there are no legitimate criticism of Microsoft, got it.
    I think he's just making the point that criticism was more supportive and upbeat in the BB forums vs the tone of the criticism here. I don't think anyone has said criticism is not allowed. Its just that the tone of the criticism on WP forums seems almost more comfortable in an iOS or Android forum vs here where the community should not just be critical but be more helpful and supportive of the products they are using.
    07-15-2014 09:47 PM
  8. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I think he's just making the point that criticism was more supportive and upbeat in the BB forums vs the tone of the criticism here. I don't think anyone has said criticism is not allowed. Its just that the tone of the criticism on WP forums seems almost more comfortable in an iOS or Android forum vs here where the community should not just be critical but be more helpful and supportive of the products they are using.
    GWINEGARDEN clearly thinks that those who criticize Microsoft are whiners. That is certainly not an opinion that invites criticism. So let's keep it real.

    If there is a difference in the tone of the criticism it's because there is a greater disconnect of the reality of the situation in the Microsoft camp. There is no time to waste. Nothing good can come from a pollyanna approach to the serious deficiencies and shortcomings. There is an unspoken undertone that acknowledges that many here probably care more about the fate of Windows Phone than those in Microsoft who are paid to be responsible.

    I'd venture to say that those who have expressed concern by sharing criticism probably care more about this thing than those who drink the kool-aid by parroting the marketing talking points that emanate from Redmond. Otherwise why would they bother? Unless you think they're nothing more than trolls or malcontents by nature.
    MarCou likes this.
    07-15-2014 10:25 PM
  9. smoledman's Avatar
    Why will they shut it down?

    MS are in it to make money. They ARE a business. It would be pretty stupid of them to ignore other markets because some of their WP users think they should concentrate only on WP not Android or iOS.
    If they did that, their business would dry up pretty quickly. Gone are the days of this agressive competition.

    I wish people would get this into their heads instead of continually moaning about WP.....

    Grow up FFS... It's 2014 not 1992!!!!!
    MS stockholders keep asking why is money being thrown down the pit with no positive ROI in sight. Same thing with XBox. Is MS a charity?
    07-15-2014 11:08 PM
  10. Black Lumia's Avatar
    Sorry what? Microsoft should open what? Windows will NEVER be open, literally never.
    That's what's killings Android.
    07-15-2014 11:17 PM
  11. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    Think back 6 or 7 years ago:

    Nokia was selling billions of handsets and the company was the undisputed no1 and worth hundreds of billions of dollars - now it has been sold for $7bn (and mostly for it IP). Who predicted that?

    How many people predicted that Blackberry, who owned the enterprise space so completely would basically have gone out of business within a few years? It was unthinkable!

    When Android 1.0 was released, all I remember reading from "experts" was that it would never be able to break the dominance of Nokia, Blackberry and Apple - now look at it

    How many people outside of south korea were even aware that Samsung made phones, let alone thought about buying one? Now they are everywhere with multiple products in every household.

    Even 2 or 3 years ago:

    how many people thought Apple's global market share would be fall to the 10's of %?

    Be honest. How many people thought tablets were a stupid, pointless, over sized smartphone that couldn't make phone calls? (I did). It's incredible to think that the 1st iPad has been around only 4 years!

    Going back a little further, how many people thought touchscreens on phones were pointless and would never be a success? (I did)

    The point is, people are rubbish at predicting the future. Especially in a volatile and fast moving, fast changing industry like the tech industry.

    The world in general is inherently unpredictable. How many "experts" saw the 2008 financial crash coming? You know, of all those tens of thousands of people who get paid a lot of money to predict that kind of thing (and are still being paid to predict that kind of thing even though they missed to biggest most important event for 80 years). How many? 1 or 2 and they were laughed at.

    We have no idea if WP will succeed or fail. Just wait and see and enjoy the ride and take every prediction as nothing more than guesswork, because the chances are that something completely unthinkable will happen next week or next month or next year and the entire theory will be blown apart.
    Your observations are spot on, but they also convince me that using an underdog platform is pointless and silly.

    Since I don't know the future, & it is difficult to even guess what might happen, I should concentrate on the present day. Today Android & iOS are the most widely used mobile platforms with all the apps anyone could want, and no waiting to see when or if they will be released. In the future this may not be the case, so Android or iOS today and maybe something else in the future.
    07-16-2014 12:04 AM
  12. RavenSword's Avatar
    That's what's killings Android.
    How is that killing android?
    07-16-2014 03:19 AM
  13. RavenSword's Avatar
    MS stockholders keep asking why is money being thrown down the pit with no positive ROI in sight. Same thing with XBox. Is MS a charity?
    No, but it's also not always about the freaking ROI.
    07-16-2014 03:20 AM
  14. jtpaajan's Avatar
    While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, I'll have to strongly disagree on this point:

    4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.

    ...like self-healing back panels. Heart rate monitors. Fingerprint scanners. Or even curved displays.

    Yes, some of these are just gimmicky, but the sad reality is that we like gimmicks. In a world where 160 character conversations and 2 minute attention spans are fast becoming the norm, people like new, fancy things to show off, and then move on to the next big thing.
    A lone Samsung phone (Ativ SE) has an IR blaster. And a few Lumias have PureView which is awesome and is not a gimmick, but cameras arent everything, and almost seem like a one trick pony at this stage.
    I was recently temped to take the leap to Android, but chose the 1520 instead, as there are three absolutely unique and wonderful features on Nokia hardware that keep me on Windows Phone, despite the software shortcomings:

    1) ClearBlack display technology. Especially in the 1520 this thing is AWESOME! There simply isn't another phone that is as usable in outdoors and bright sunlight as the CBD Nokias. This really is a dealbreaker thing for me, as I tend to use smartphones mainly for web browsing, out of which a lot happens in sunlight.

    2) An always-on glance screen, showing the current time + notifications. This is something I have gotten used to and will NEVER give up! :)

    3) High-amplitude audio capture (HAAC). With high-end Nokias you won't lose audio data even in challenging situations. Unlike, say incorrect white balance in the camera, this is something you cannot fix in software later on.

    I really, really hope that Microsoft keeps on investing into their new mobile division to keep unique technology like this coming...
    Laura Knotek and BobLobIaw like this.
    07-16-2014 07:29 AM
  15. Lalith Prabhudev's Avatar
    I hope the Windows phone central sees this and tell it to Microsoft that "u gotta do a lot of work"
    07-16-2014 08:27 AM
  16. Great deal's Avatar
    I hope the Windows phone central sees this and tell it to Microsoft that "u gotta do a lot of work"
    lol
    07-16-2014 08:38 AM
  17. rodan01's Avatar
    Your observations are spot on, but they also convince me that using an underdog platform is pointless and silly.

    Since I don't know the future, & it is difficult to even guess what might happen, I should concentrate on the present day. Today Android & iOS are the most widely used mobile platforms with all the apps anyone could want, and no waiting to see when or if they will be released. In the future this may not be the case, so Android or iOS today and maybe something else in the future.
    If you're an app guy you'd be better with Android or iOS. Although, there are millions of people that don't use many apps or don't use apps at all, and WP is good for them. The app gap creates a perception of inferiority that hurts sales even in the segment that is well served by the current, growing, app selection. Microsoft has to solve this problem.
    WP has improved a lot with 8.1, I don't find any major problem with the OS.

    Some criticism is trying to extrapolate personal preferences to everybody. For example: -WP doesn't have xx app or xx feature that I need. WP is useless for everybody and is dead in the water-.
    The correct way to express it would be: -WP doesn't have xx app or xx feature, so It's not good for me-.
    Why is there a need to kill WP before moving to other platform?
    BobLobIaw, a5cent and MikeSo like this.
    07-16-2014 09:05 AM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    That's what's killings Android.
    LOL.

    If that's what being killed looks like, there are a several platforms that would dive on that sword.
    07-16-2014 09:13 AM
  19. paulxxwall's Avatar
    I guess we'll wait for new numbers here in the USA when new device come out but in reality Ms has only worked hard enough to gain maybe 5% of worldwide customers anyway!
    07-16-2014 10:15 AM
  20. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    If you're an app guy you'd be better with Android or iOS. Although, there are millions of people that don't use many apps or don't use apps at all, and WP is good for them. The app gap creates a perception of inferiority that hurts sales even in the segment that is well served by the current, growing, app selection. Microsoft has to solve this problem.
    WP has improved a lot with 8.1, I don't find any major problem with the OS.

    Some criticism is trying to extrapolate personal preferences to everybody. For example: -WP doesn't have xx app or xx feature that I need. WP is useless for everybody and is dead in the water-.
    The correct way to express it would be: -WP doesn't have xx app or xx feature, so It's not good for me-.
    Why is there a need to kill WP before moving to other platform?
    There is no need to kill WP before moving. For myself I'm done waiting for things to get better, because I see no point in it. 8.1 really drove home the point to me what a dope I've been for waiting. In 8.1 there is less built in integration and more reliance on apps. IMO live tiles have become as important as Windows Vista desktop gadgets were, ever since they introduced the Info Centre. Info Centre, individual apps, and marginalized live tiles = less WP/Modern UI and more Android.

    To top it all off Bing international support sucks, and I suspect it will keep lagging behind the US indefinitely. So not only am I using a 3rd place OS and all the issues that can arise from that, but I'm not even getting the same user experience as those in the US are. And to rub salt into the wound WP sales in the US suck, and still they get the best WP experience.
    WillysJeepMan likes this.
    07-16-2014 03:46 PM
  21. Jas00555's Avatar
    There is no need to kill WP before moving. For myself I'm done waiting for things to get better, because I see no point in it. 8.1 really drove home the point to me what a dope I've been for waiting. In 8.1 there is less built in integration and more reliance on apps. IMO live tiles have become as important as Windows Vista desktop gadgets were, ever since they introduced the Info Centre. Info Centre, individual apps, and marginalized live tiles = less WP/Modern UI and more Android.

    To top it all off Bing international support sucks, and I suspect it will keep lagging behind the US indefinitely. So not only am I using a 3rd place OS and all the issues that can arise from that, but I'm not even getting the same user experience as those in the US are. And to rub salt into the wound WP sales in the US suck, and still they get the best WP experience.
    You must've missed the article a few days ago about how the US has the largest number of WP users. Shame. I wish people researched before posting such nonsense.
    07-16-2014 05:09 PM
  22. RavenSword's Avatar
    You must've missed the article a few days ago about how the US has the largest number of WP users. Shame. I wish people researched before posting such nonsense.
    They still only have 3% market share. US may have the most WP users, but that doesn't matter when the total user base number is small to begin with.
    07-16-2014 05:12 PM
  23. rodan01's Avatar
    There is no need to kill WP before moving. For myself I'm done waiting for things to get better, because I see no point in it. 8.1 really drove home the point to me what a dope I've been for waiting. In 8.1 there is less built in integration and more reliance on apps. IMO live tiles have become as important as Windows Vista desktop gadgets were, ever since they introduced the Info Centre. Info Centre, individual apps, and marginalized live tiles = less WP/Modern UI and more Android.

    To top it all off Bing international support sucks, and I suspect it will keep lagging behind the US indefinitely. So not only am I using a 3rd place OS and all the issues that can arise from that, but I'm not even getting the same user experience as those in the US are. And to rub salt into the wound WP sales in the US suck, and still they get the best WP experience.
    I don't like hubs, I prefer the full featured apps. I like the action center, I use it all the time.
    In all the platforms services are better in the US, and new features come first to the US market. Definitely the difference is bigger with Bing.

    Now that you made your decision you should be happy, I guess things are going to improve for you, but It seems you're mad, just talking about what you don't like in WP.
    07-16-2014 05:27 PM
  24. Jas00555's Avatar
    They still only have 3% market share. US may have the most WP users, but that doesn't matter when the total user base number is small to begin with.
    Um..... Yes does lol. I have no idea what you've got going on inside your head but what you're basically saying is that if you've got one market that has a million people and you control 6% of that market (60,000 people) and another market with 10 people that you can control 50% of (5 people) then you should go with those 5 people because its a higher market share which..... Is just so terrible of an idea that I'm not sure I can even acknowledge it. You go where the users are, not the percentages.
    BobLobIaw and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-16-2014 05:27 PM
  25. RavenSword's Avatar
    Um..... Yes does lol. I have no idea what you've got going on inside your head but what you're basically saying is that if you've got one market that has a million people and you control 6% of that market (60,000 people) and another market with 10 people that you can control 50% of (5 people) then you should go with those 5 people because its a higher market share which..... Is just so terrible of an idea that I'm not sure I can even acknowledge it. You go where the users are, not the percentages.
    Yup, because devs have been flocking to WP so far haven't they.

    My point is that even though they're is more WP users in America it doesn't matter because there isn't enough WP users to begin with.
    07-16-2014 05:40 PM
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