Why WP is dead in the water

muneshyne21

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Nadella just let 18,000 people go to streamline the company and development. Happy? 18,000 people lost their jobs because we want WP8.1 GDR1 three months faster than its current pace. Feel good about yourself? Huh? HUH?!
Ok I kid. This was going to happen regardless after acquiring Nokia and its 25,000 employees. Exciting times but it sucks for those laid off. Collateral damage I guess.

Let's have a moment of silence for those who lost their jobs in order to bring us shiny new flagship phones and additional OS features at the pace we demand...
 
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Great deal

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Nadella just let 10,000 people go to streamline the company and development. Happy? 10,000 people lost their jobs because we want WP8.1 GDR1 three months faster than its current pace. Feel good about yourself? Huh? HUH?!
Ok I kid. This was going to happen regardless after acquiring Nokia and its 25,000 employees. Exciting times but it sucks for those laid off. Collateral damage I guess.

Let's have a moment of silence for those who lost their jobs in order to bring us shiny new flagship phones and additional OS features at the pace we demand...

1 min silence.......ok so as I own an IT recruitment company and MS happen to be just one of our clients we will be helping as many people as we can. The skill sets are very much in demand and most 'employees' get stuck in jobs and this is 95% of the time a refreshing opportunity to earn more money and learn new skills. However, no matter how it happens, losing your job creates emotional turmoil, the 'what if' questions pop into the mind (whatever questions we ask ourselves our brain always finds an answer no matter how ridiculous the question) yet when they start in a new role they always look back and wish that they done it sooner!

In my experience every cloud (excuse the pun) has a silver lining.
 

smoledman

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Nadella just let 18,000 people go to streamline the company and development. Happy? 18,000 people lost their jobs because we want WP8.1 GDR1 three months faster than its current pace. Feel good about yourself? Huh? HUH?!
Ok I kid. This was going to happen regardless after acquiring Nokia and its 25,000 employees. Exciting times but it sucks for those laid off. Collateral damage I guess.

Let's have a moment of silence for those who lost their jobs in order to bring us shiny new flagship phones and additional OS features at the pace we demand...

That's the thing I'm not sure anymore that WP isn't on the chopping block. Nadella probably has looked at it - 3% market share after 4 hard years of a slog is not worth continuing. He will refocus the company on Azure, Office, Visual Studio, Sharepoint and Windows Desktop.
 

rodan01

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That's the thing I'm not sure anymore that WP isn't on the chopping block. Nadella probably has looked at it - 3% market share after 4 hard years of a slog is not worth continuing. He will refocus the company on Azure, Office, Visual Studio, Sharepoint and Windows Desktop.

Most of that people is from factories and developer teams related to the Nokia X, Asha and dumb phones. There is also a lot of redundancy with Microsoft teams, when I company is acquired layoffs are expected.
Microsoft doubled down on WP, but they have to concentrate in the segments where they can compete: Low-end consumer market and the enterprise market. A Flagship is also important because It's an aspirational product that help to sell the low-end products.
 

uselessrobot

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I'm convinced that Microsoft's biggest problem with Windows Phone has been poor grip on the market. It's bad enough they're still fighting a negative perception, but they've left the promotion of WP entirely in the ends of carriers and retailers. Management at Microsoft talks about the importance of partners, but these "valued" partners at best barely devote shelf space to WP devices and at worst actively steer consumers from the platform. This is why market share has languished.

Unfortunately, it seems like the company remains oblivious to this fact. Do executives and managers ever walk into stores to see what's actually going on? Of all the divisions that need cutting, the marketing department should be the first to go.

Of course, the problems run deeper than that. Microsoft seems incapable of properly capitalizing on good ideas; a problem which has afflicted them for over a decade. Sooner or later, Apple comes along with the same exact idea but properly fleshed out and takes all the credit.

Windows Phone is still my favorite platform and I'm reluctant to leave for something else. Later in the year, when I hit 2 years with WP I'm going to be thinking pretty hard about whether or not I'm sticking around. Microsoft had better have a compelling phone on the market and be showing a more promising direction for the future.
 

smoledman

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I'm convinced that Microsoft's biggest problem with Windows Phone has been poor grip on the market. It's bad enough they're still fighting a negative perception, but they've left the promotion of WP entirely in the ends of carriers and retailers. Management at Microsoft talks about the importance of partners, but these "valued" partners at best barely devote shelf space to WP devices and at worst actively steer consumers from the platform. This is why market share has languished.

Unfortunately, it seems like the company remains oblivious to this fact. Do executives and managers ever walk into stores to see what's actually going on? Of all the divisions that need cutting, the marketing department should be the first to go.

Of course, the problems run deeper than that. Microsoft seems incapable of properly capitalizing on good ideas; a problem which has afflicted them for over a decade. Sooner or later, Apple comes along with the same exact idea but properly fleshed out and takes all the credit.

Windows Phone is still my favorite platform and I'm reluctant to leave for something else. Later in the year, when I hit 2 years with WP I'm going to be thinking pretty hard about whether or not I'm sticking around. Microsoft had better have a compelling phone on the market and be showing a more promising direction for the future.

So ecosystem means nothing to you? You realize that iOS/Android will always be galaxies ahead on apps.

At this point I'm proceeding on the assumption that Nadella is going to cancel Windows Phone. I feel no more obligation to support a 'burning platform'.
 

BobLobIaw

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That's the thing I'm not sure anymore that WP isn't on the chopping block. Nadella probably has looked at it - 3% market share after 4 hard years of a slog is not worth continuing. He will refocus the company on Azure, Office, Visual Studio, Sharepoint and Windows Desktop.

The only problem with your analysis is that is runs completely counter to everything that has been stated in memorandums from Nadella and others at MS in the last few days. Nothing wrong with speculation, but yours isn't grounded in reality at the moment. Sounds a lot more like FUD.
 

smoledman

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The only problem with your analysis is that is runs completely counter to everything that has been stated in memorandums from Nadella and others at MS in the last few days. Nothing wrong with speculation, but yours isn't grounded in reality at the moment. Sounds a lot more like FUD.

​Nadella is creating the FUD with his actions.
 

tacisonwindowsphone

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So sorry to enter this discussion with absolutely no smart phone experience. However, I am in the market for a smart phone. I have never used one before. I have used both windows and apple pcs over the years. I have started to examine all 3 vendors and would like to have someone explain to me why I would choose a windows phone over the other 2 choices.

Windows phones look like they could be ok. But I also owned a zune player before microsoft dumped support for that. Now I see a 3% market share by 2018 for windows phone. They dump plans for mclaren. They are in the early stages of what seems to be gutting nokia. There is not a clear view of how or why the windows phone would be part of a long term strategy with a 3% market share? I have 3 financial institutions I use and none of them have any windows phone apps. One told me they have no plans to support windows phone apps. I asked my verizon dealer when I could get an icon with the cyan/8.1 software loaded and they had no idea.

Someone give me a reason to go ahead and buy a windows phone for the basic daily tools I need that would trump either of the other 2 choices. I really would like to stick with windows but I just don't see it as a better long term choice.

thanks
 

colinkiama

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Okay, I know this sounds harsh, and I realise I'm gonna get a lot of negativity, but I ask you to hear me out and let me know what you disagree with objectively.

1. Limiting choice of phones

As of mid-2014, WP has three high-end, almost-flagship devices: The 930, 1520 and 1020.
I say almost-flagship because each of these phones is missing something - either glance or wireless charging or SD card support (in the case of the 1520 it's simply missing the point - we want phones, not phablets!)

There simply is no flagship phone:
I mean come on, if people can look forward to and make purchase plans for an unknown, unnamed concept device like the McLaren that we know next to nothing about, then you *know* WP is missing something big.

2. No one cares about WP

Until 2013, the one OEM who truly cared about WP - enough to bribe developers and launch campaigns to get apps on-board - was Nokia. Now that the Finns are no longer in the game, it's up to Microsoft to steer this ship. And knowing the dinosaur that MS is (seriously, they couldn't get Skype integrated for 2 years!), melting polar glaciers would probably move faster than MS does.
It’s been months and WP8.1 isn’t out yet, Cortana only speaks American, and “something big” is apparently coming to WP that no one seems to know about.

Also, the rumours that MS might make an Android-powered Lumia isn’t helping either.

3. Monotonous designs

Don't get me wrong - I think unibody polycarbonate is awesome.
But I also like unibody metal (like on the HTC One), front-and-back glass (XPERIAs and previous gen iPhones), and even the rubberised, plasticky or fake leather casing like on the Samsung and LG phones.
The point is, different people like different designs - and with the limited number of WP devices (see #1 above), almost all of which follow the same design language, it's not going win fans everywhere.

4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.

...like self-healing back panels. Heart rate monitors. Fingerprint scanners. Or even curved displays.

Yes, some of these are just gimmicky, but the sad reality is that we like gimmicks. In a world where 160 character conversations and 2 minute attention spans are fast becoming the norm, people like new, fancy things to show off, and then move on to the next big thing.
A lone Samsung phone (Ativ SE) has an IR blaster. And a few Lumias have PureView – which is awesome and is not a gimmick, but cameras aren’t everything, and almost seem like a one trick pony at this stage.

5. No rugged or waterproof phones

A long running gag is that Nokia phones can break through walls; but jokes aside, I don’t know any WP device that’s really weather-proof or built to take on the environment.
Sure, we have aftermarket cases that achieve this, but not everyone wants to cover their nice-looking phone in a military-grade case just to make it dust/waterproof.

Is IP67 too much to ask for? It’s 2014 for crying out loud!

6. Doesn't work with wearables

Wearable tech may not be mainstream yet, but given that it’s gaining more and more traction, we need phones that work with the gear available today - like the Pebble, Fitbit, Nike Fuelband and host of other smart watches and fitness trackers that simply offer nothing unless you have an iOS or Android device.

Yes, we know MS is supposedly working on a smart watch as well, but again we know how long that’s going to take. People want their phones to work with what's available today, not something coming out in 2 years (if it actually does!)

7. Misses official google apps; and games/apps in general.

Yes, I know, but sorry I have to say this.
I know this topic has been discussed to death and beyond, but the plain fact of the matter is:
1. A lot of people use Google
2. WP offers no official apps for most google services.

I know the WP community throws all manners of counter arguments, such as MS services are better, or that we have better-than-the-official-app alternatives for YouTube and so on, but it doesn’t change the fact that WP does not have official google apps, and this matters to a lot of people.

To sum up, WP is a platform with a unique UI and great potential but the fact of the matter is, there isn’t any true flagship (in the same league as Android) to really help it shine today.

And in the long run, I don’t see how WP can progress when it’s more an after-thought or “plan B” for OEMs, seems all but forsaken by its manufacturer, and ignored by the developer community.

Cheers!

try android like I did, it'll be more refreshing
but I guarantee that you'll come back
 

jsooney

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It's way too early to say whether WP is dead in the water or not. If you're using WP you should probably consider yourself an early adopter, and be aware that it is a work in progress. I knew when I chose to get a Windows phone that it would be a mess, and it is. However, I still enjoy the phone and just deal with its various quirks and problems. I had a Samsung Galaxy S4 briefly which was a piece of total garbage, and I much prefer my 1520.

Whether WP survives will depend on how much stamina and will Microsoft has. They're going to have to keep sinking bucketloads of money into development to gain more traction in the market. Given the fall off of the PC market, I don't know if they have much choice but to stick with it. If WP lasts another 5 years I think it will be here to stay.
 

janil17

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I've been thinking about this lately. My HTC 8x works, but first the case by the volume button peeled off and now the volume controls have peeled off. So it works but is not in good shape. So I've been looking at new phones-- I'm on T-Mobile (U.S.A) and see three phone choices-- the 925, 635, and 521. None of them are appealing.

The 925 looks like a nice phone but it uses the same processor as my HTC 8x, so it's not exactly an improvement over what I have. I would also like to have 32GB storage instead of 16GB. The other options are even more limited.

The Nokia 930 would be a great choice, but it's doesn't completely support the T-Mobile network bands.

I really like Windows Phone but feel like none of the available devices are worth it at this time. I'm going to try to get my 8x fixed, and hope it works for another year or so. If this is too expensive, I'm probably going to get an Android device until a suitable Windows phone shows up-- something with 32GB or more of total storage) and a faster processor than my 8x. I think Microsoft will release a suitable phone, if the surface models reflect their approach to devices. Unfortunately, something "good enough" may not show up until next year.
 

Pierre Blackwell

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Layoffs are a part of big business. Satya mentioned that MSFT would make WP a priority. McLaren may be scrapped but that doesn't mean the technology is or that we wont see it again wrapped in another name. There's been a lot of activity and everyone should wait and see what happens.
 

JamesPTao

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It's way too early to say whether WP is dead in the water or not. If you're using WP you should probably consider yourself an early adopter, and be aware that it is a work in progress. I knew when I chose to get a Windows phone that it would be a mess, and it is. However, I still enjoy the phone and just deal with its various quirks and problems. I had a Samsung Galaxy S4 briefly which was a piece of total garbage, and I much prefer my 1520.

Whether WP survives will depend on how much stamina and will Microsoft has. They're going to have to keep sinking bucketloads of money into development to gain more traction in the market. Given the fall off of the PC market, I don't know if they have much choice but to stick with it. If WP lasts another 5 years I think it will be here to stay.

Define suitable. After a month of use any new WP will outperform an android as far as how fast it handles the os.
 

BobLobIaw

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I'm not the one cancelling whole divisions and products left and right. Satya Nadella is.

And still none of the actions you refer to is consistent with canceling WP. All you are saying is that there are cuts in personnel and products announced, so therefore you are concluding that Nadella intends to cancel WP completely even though statements by Microsoft in that regard indicate the exact opposite. That is fear, uncertainty and doubt to a T. You could use the same rationale to conclude that Nadella will cancel Office 365, because OMG Nadella is cancelling whole divisions and products left and right! Oh noes, Surface Pros are next on Nadella's axe list!
 

Phone Guy 4567

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So sorry to enter this discussion with absolutely no smart phone experience. However, I am in the market for a smart phone. I have never used one before. I have used both windows and apple pcs over the years. I have started to examine all 3 vendors and would like to have someone explain to me why I would choose a windows phone over the other 2 choices.

Windows phones look like they could be ok. But I also owned a zune player before microsoft dumped support for that. Now I see a 3% market share by 2018 for windows phone. They dump plans for mclaren. They are in the early stages of what seems to be gutting nokia. There is not a clear view of how or why the windows phone would be part of a long term strategy with a 3% market share? I have 3 financial institutions I use and none of them have any windows phone apps. One told me they have no plans to support windows phone apps. I asked my verizon dealer when I could get an icon with the cyan/8.1 software loaded and they had no idea.

Someone give me a reason to go ahead and buy a windows phone for the basic daily tools I need that would trump either of the other 2 choices. I really would like to stick with windows but I just don't see it as a better long term choice.

thanks

I would go with Android or iOS and pass on Windows Phone, at least for now. Having used Windows Phone from the beginning, and Windows Mobile before that, IMO there is very little upside to getting WP right now. In the beginning WP was all about the hubs and now that's not the case, the focus has switched to individual apps. That being the case I would go where the vast majority of people and apps are, since IMO what made WP a unique user experience is gone. If and when MS comes out with something that catches on with people you can always switch then. Glad to hear I'm not the only one with a Zune. :)
 

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