Why WP is dead in the water

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

That might be Microsoft's main problem.

Nobody is releasing Windows Phone devices in the mid to high-end range except of Microsoft, while these devices still face the competition of Android and iOS.

Currently it's not a problem. Also, there are pretty much WP OEMs with local markets, like Micromax, Prestigio, BLU, Romanian one (forgot the name, edit: Allview). So we just need to wait. I'm very happy with the Lumia designs.

P.S. Is that only me, or ATIV SE design is very similar to previous Galaxy phones?

 

[MDK22]

Some valid points made - one in particular = Waterproof the Lumia line ! How hard could it be to seal a unibody phone. That would be a step in the right direction.

As far as Windows Phone in general :
- chose Windows Phone originally as a cross between Android (very open) & iOS (very closed). With the upcoming changes, WinPhone still hits that middle ground.
- iOS was not an option because of the limited storage (NO SD cards) & the closed nature of the system, You can do what Apple has decided you should do on an iPhone.
- Android was ruled out because of it's still (at the time) relative bugginess & the fact that the OS was simply a pig with resources. Combine that with the security issues (w Android it's not IF, but when there'll be a major exploit) which ruled that OS out.
- defaulted to Win Phone 8.0, got Lumia 920 a day after release, very happy w the device (my wife's phone now) & my Lumia 1520.

... and for the guy with 10 to 20,000 rupee to spend, there are myriad Win Phone choices in that range, just NOT in your country and possibly GOOD, but not GREAT. Hard to get a flagship with midrange $$$.

 

[Chregu]

P.S. Is that only me, or ATIV SE design is very similar to previous Galaxy phones?

It's practically a re-release of the Galaxy S4 (Snapdragon 800 edition) with Windows Phone shortly before the Galaxy S5 was announced. Doesn't really matter as it's only sold by Verizon USA and nowhere else.

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Samsung-ATIV-SE,Samsung-Galaxy-S4/phones/8534,7597

 

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

Some valid points made - one in particular = Waterproof the Lumia line ! How hard could it be to seal a unibody phone. That would be a step in the right direction.

Panasonic will release soon such a device. Panasonic announces the FZ-E1, a new Windows Embedded 8 Handheld device | Windows Phone Central

 

[Chregu]

Currently it's not a problem. Also, there are pretty much WP OEMs with local markets, like Micromax, Prestigio, BLU, Romanian one (forgot the name, edit: Allview). So we just need to wait. I'm very happy with the Lumia designs.

Those are only low-end devices by companies that as far as I know only release low-end devices. I don't expect anything worth mentioning from them (in regard of mid to high-end, not in general).

 

[Chregu]

Panasonic will release soon such a device. Panasonic announces the FZ-E1, a new Windows Embedded 8 Handheld device | Windows Phone Central

Well, there might be a problem for normal customers:

Retail pricing starts at $1,300.

 

[salmanahmad]

I'm wondering how does OP define the 'flagship'. Should it include every single feature in the world or not (even completely unnecessary like fingerprint sensor).

If a fingerprint scanner is well implemented(like on iPhone 5S) it isn't unnecessary.

I just wanted to point out that I like the design of Windows Phones, design preference varies from person to person, so it's not really an issue.

 

[dov1978]

I don't think WP is dead in the water but the future certainly doesn't look bright right now. I agree on the flagship part, an upgraded 1520 and 1020 would fix that. I'm currently using the 1320 and love the size of it and large phones are gladly here to stay hence why Apple are now joining in with a 5.5" iphone this autumn/fall. WP 8.1 was a massive leap forward and put us right in the mix with iOS and Android. That was achieved by simply listening to and actioning what us users asked for. If the quality of apps and missing apps were on par with iOS and Android there would be no issue getting people on board whatsoever. People don't want to switch and get less featured and apps than they did before. As for the hardware, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Since my Lumia 800 Nokia have created a gorgeous, rock solid, sleek handset that I rate higher than anything else out there

 

[MarCou]

At this point of view WPs global marketshare abaut 4% seems logically right. WP offers nothing at time. If someone prefer waterproof phone, but not so much google or apps, cant find WP phone. Or if someone wants plenty of apps but dont care so much waterproof phone, WP still have nothing to offer. WP offers only phones for those who are not so picky or have lot of inner hate aimed to google or android.

"WP has three high-end, almost-flagship devices"

This have been Nokias strategy for ages. They never really had a one over all phone, except their very early years. They tried this style of approach to smartphones too, but it seemed to be very wrong desicion.

Others seems to have much better strategy. First they bring flagship and then they bring mid-range phone under flagships name. For example Galaxy S4 mini. Nothing to do with S4 but name. As easily 630 could be "930 mini".

WP loosed the game when two kings in own field joidend. They both used to live in the world where no one have ever threaten them. Nokia owned mobilemarkets and MS computers platform markets. They think that they can come out and say:"Here is our phone, take it." The didnt see that world was changing.

The biggest problem is that mobilemarkets are already shared. Its not enought to bring a device that can compete against other. It have to be device that makes others to compete against it. Peoples already are familiar with Android or iOS. They already have google or apple accounts. You have to show those peoples that this is better than your current platform. And there still stands a problem. Nothing to show for now.

It seems that every big author have little population fighting against it. Windows had linux-users who hated Microsoft and told us that Linux will be no1 platform in computers in very short order. Now it has turned around. All those 4% is telling us that WP will be dominating phonemarkets in a little while. Did linux ever won? No. So what are possbilities to won now?

Maybe some T-shirt maker should start doing shirts with big yellow "4%er" logo. ha ha.

 

[docfreed]

Yes, this is 2014 and XBox is the biggest POS invented - it's difficult to even resume your place or bookmark a place in audio whereas in Itunes you can. What is MS thinking to saddle us with this execrably bad app.

 

[Great deal]

Ive been quite negative regarding MS sometimes, however I have to jump in and respond as this made me angry and heres the reasons....

1. Limiting choice of phones

Do you realise that MS spent billions on purchasing a company that makes great phones? do you know what's involved in that and the time it takes to integrate everything? The 930 and probably the 1525 are the last phones to (maybe the McLaren to a certain extent) carry over from the Nokia pipeline and development. MS HAD to wait for completion of deal, its still ongoing as the streamlining/integration takes place. A process that large just does/cannot happen overnight, and when they are fully up and integrated you will see fantastic devices coming through, just not right now for the obvious fact that Nokia are not releasing anything and MS cant because of the purchase of Nokia. The very reason MS purchased Nokia is to bring fantastic devices to us, Rome was not built in a day and MS restructure points to more agility/quality and speed of delivery.

2. No one cares about WP

MS cares about WP, you will see as they start rolling out their own devices, as the internal restructure takes place. 8.1? we are on version 8 and 8.1 is starting to roll out now, you have been poisoned by a developers preview and your expectation is too high, why would they release something with glaring problems into the wild, 8.1 DP was a test bed. Patience dude its round the corner.

3. Monotonous designs

You mentioned a number of different manufacturers, that's not MS fault. The reason other OEMs have not put much effort into it is because of lack of market share of WP. That is exactly the reason MS purchase Nokia, so they can release amazing, competitive products to grab market share at which point others will jump in and we will see different styles.

4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.

Agree - however due to the sale of Nokia the development lifecycle was halted to a degree and the tech you see today is from last year, the new stuff is coming

5. No rugged or waterproof phones

See point 3 above

6. Doesn't work with wearables

Take that up with the OEM's, MS cant do much until market share increases. Which it will, they are in a transistional phase, a fantastic one which will result in everything we want and more.

7. Misses official google apps; and games/apps in general.

If you want Google products, products where your data is taken and sold to 3rd parties so they can sell you crap then just go buy an Android phone. This is WP, a 3rd place company determined to get in to 2nd and then 1st place. They have the money and resources and their actions are evidence that they are committed and manouvering to deliver more to app developers as well as consumers.

All in all I suggest that if you cant wait till the end of this year then switch to Android/iOS... for me I will wait it out as I can see the effort being made.

 

[a5cent]

WP offers nothing at [this] time.

• What about the best camera phone? Or is being waterproof the only thing that counts in your world?
• What about being the only smartphone with a consistent UI?
• What about WP being the only smartphone OS that gives you a choice of OEM, while still offering a standardized hardware platform that guarantees good performance even on low end devices, no matter which device you choose (even tech-o-phobes can rest assured that no matter what they buy, usability won't leave you wanting)?
• What about WP being more than a glorified app launcher, while still being just as simple to use as an iOS device?

I could go on, but think that proves the point...

 

[Chregu]

Do you realise that MS spent billions on purchasing a company that makes great phones? do you know what's involved in that and the time it takes to integrate everything? The 930 and probably the 1525 are the last phones to (maybe the McLaren to a certain extent) carry over from the Nokia pipeline and development. MS HAD to wait for completion of deal, its still ongoing as the streamlining/integration takes place. A process that large just does/cannot happen overnight, and when they are fully up and integrated you will see fantastic devices coming through, just not right now for the obvious fact that Nokia are not releasing anything and MS cant because of the purchase of Nokia. The very reason MS purchased Nokia is to bring fantastic devices to us, Rome was not built in a day and MS restructure points to more agility/quality and speed of delivery.

I realize that.

There are three issues with this however:

1. Why should I care as a customer about that? It's none of my business, it's not my business.
2. Promises (or in this case rather rumors, not promises) are good and all, but the competition is not sleeping, with every month they are more behind. It will only become harder to gain or regain market-share, not easier.
3. It was always hard for Microsoft to sell stuff, they just don't have the hang of it. And having a repetition of offering a low-cost phone OS that's a little behind won't be easy to shake off either.

I do understand that these are points Microsoft can do little about, but they gladly make everything worse with offering Android phones that look better than their Windows Phone devices in the same price range.

 

[Chregu]

What about the best camera phone? Or is being waterproof the only thing that counts in your world?
What about being the only smartphone with a consistent UI?
What about WP being the only smartphone OS that gives you a choice of OEM, while still offering a standardized hardware platform that guarantees good performance even on low end devices, no matter which device you choose (even tech-o-phobes can rest assured that no matter what they buy, usability won't leave you wanting)?
What about WP being more than a glorified app launcher, while still being just as simple to use as an iOS device?

I could go on, but think that proves the point...

On the camera side the competition is really catching up. With the 920 and 1020 Nokia was really ahead, I don't think the difference is that huge anymore.

I'm not sure what you mean about the consistency of the UI. I guess you refer to the different skins of Android phones? It's true that Windows Phone doesn't allow that, neither does iOS (naturally). Personally I don't see a problem with that however, why does the OS on a Samsung device have to look exactly the same as the one on a HTC device? The overall quality should be important. And with the notification center copied from Android Microsoft isn't really holding on to Metro anymore anyway. Fastlane looks more Metro.

Windows Phone was more than a glorified app launcher until Windows Phone 8.1 was released. How is it different from iOS now in this regard?

I don't disagree with you in general, of course Windows Phone has some great things or else I wouldn't have used it since the release of Windows Phone 7. Still, I think it's not that much of an edge.

 

[Great deal]

I realize that.

There are three issues with this however:

1. Why should I care as a customer about that? It's none of my business, it's not my business.
2. Promises (or in this case rather rumors, not promises) are good and all, but the competition is not sleeping, with every month they are more behind. It will only become harder to gain or regain market-share, not easier.
3. It was always hard for Microsoft to sell stuff, they just don't have the hang of it. And having a repetition of offering a low-cost phone OS that's a little behind won't be easy to shake off either.

I do understand that these are points Microsoft can do little about, but they gladly make everything worse with offering Android phones that look better than their Windows Phone devices in the same price range.

1 - Your right - don't buy a WP today is the answer id give to anyone wondering about it.
2 - Yes - the gap is closing - WP is a little slow right now however they a re a viable 3rd option with the resources behind them to catchup and overtake the other 2.
3 - The past does not equal the future is a great mantra to live by unfortunate many people use the past to hit them over the head with, nothing except genuine innovation will change that, its coming though.

Agree they need to stop Android related activity until own OS is in order.

 

[MarCou]

What about the best camera phone? Or is being waterproof the only thing that counts in your world?
What about being the only smartphone with a consistent UI?
What about WP being the only smartphone OS that gives you a choice of OEM, while still offering a standardized hardware platform that guarantees good performance even on low end devices, no matter which device you choose (even tech-o-phobes can rest assured that no matter what they buy, usability won't leave you wanting)?
What about WP being more than a glorified app launcher, while still being just as simple to use as an iOS device?

I could go on, but think that proves the point...

Yes. You can be totally right. I dont deny it.

Read my post again. I didn?t say that WP is a poor platform. I dont prefer it, but it is just my choise. I understand that there are plenty of tastes here. I said that something went totally wrong, cos WP have only ~4% marketshare. And I said that it is almost impossible to raise that number anymore. Markets are already saturated.

So, now you have worlds best platform. Can you tell me what went so totally wrong? And how to tell all of those Android and iOS users that they should change platform? What is so good in WP that they should reject their Google or iOS accounts start all over again?

 

[Warren_S]

I really love the simple, fast and easy way to navigate the entire Windows Phone interface. To me that is a long term "plus". But the app development and some simple things that don't work always, like my WP TuneIn Radio app, just keep me shaking my head. Of course I couldn't write a software code to add single digit numbers.

 

[MBY]

If you want Google products, products where your data is taken and sold to 3rd parties so they can sell you crap then just go buy an Android phone.

For me this point cannot be overstated. When I decided to purchase my first smartphone, there were definitely features of WP that drew me. But just as much as I was excited about WP, I was rejecting Android. With Gobble trying to vacuum up every aspect of your digital life, I really feel less and less like the customer and more and more like the product.

I don't claim to understand every aspect of this, but MS just seems much more respectful of your privacy. I was really pleased when it was announced that Cortana would use a local (i.e. on your phone) notebook for your data, that the you as the user would be able to edit it directly, and that this data would never be used to target advertising at you. This was just one example, but it seems to exemplify MS's approach to data privacy.

I'd really love MS to hit this issue aggressively in their marketing. I suspect this approach hurts their monetizing and they probably don't want to paint themselves into a corner down the road. And data privacy probably isn't flashy enough for most people to switch platforms (or to scare people away from Google). But it is a major difference that should at least be highlighted.

 

[guillams]

To tell the truth, after getting a glimpse of Android L, I for one am seriously pissed off on Microsoft. They are just too freaking slow. That is something big coming from me as I have supported WP and still do for quiet some time now and exploited my position as tech enthusiast to spread Lumia love in my neighborhood. But that doesn't change the fact that I want to see MS doing better than 4% global share and Google copying Modern interface and integration faster than MS is not going to help.
I'm not saying that 'm going to abandon the WP ship any time soon -at least as long as I need a PC or Desktop, which is forever- but the things about WP that I hold dear are fast running out as others copy them and I don't like that, I just want WP over iPhones.
Currently, the only things I care about is what I have shall be able to do what its able to do fairly easily, which WP does flawlessly, Android slows the crap out of me and I'm more pissed off on Google about this than MS, and iPhone is like a high end feature phone to me nothing more. 1020 all the way

I have been a WP from the moment I used the first one (i have been in almost any platform) and to be honest, everytime Android or IOS comes with new features I get excited because that challenge MS to work hard to improve the OS.

Get upset to soon is useless, if things doesn't change when wp8.1 finally released WW I'll be the first to leave the platform.
And is not a MS fault no have Google services on WP, scroogle doesn't want to support the OS, so my advice is: Do you want Google's services? Go for Android!

 

[Abdul Rahman Noor]

6. Doesn't work with wearables

Take that up with the OEM's, MS cant do much until market share increases.

OEMs aren't stupid to spend a ton of money developing for a platform that only has 4% of the market when that same amount of money spent on iOS/Android will yield them better returns.

Also, I never said it was Microsoft's fault, and for me as an end-user I don't care who's fault it is or what the cause of the problem is.
All a consumer sees are two competing products - one of which works with wearables, and another that doesn't. If that specific feature is important to that person, they *will* choose an iOS/Android over WP. They don't need to "wait until the end of the year" to see what magic Microsoft will come up with.
Someone who's already caught up in WP might wait, but not everyone needs to; ultimately the loss is WP's, not the consumer's.

If you want Google products, products where your data is taken and sold to 3rd parties so they can sell you crap then just go buy an Android phone.

Once again, the missing-Google-features-don't-matter-because-Microsoft-services-are-better-than-Google argument.

Consumers are free to choose what they want; and shouldn't have to "choose" Microsoft just because they can't get Google on WP.
Again, I'm not saying this is Microsoft's fault - but in the end the loss is only for WP when customers go to Android and iOS instead just because Google's missing.