Why WP is dead in the water

[Chregu]

Rugged windows phone...
Panasonic reveals 5-inch phone running Windows Embedded 8 - Neowin

Well, there might be a problem for normal customers:

Retail pricing starts at $1,300.

(That's a actually a repost from this thread...)

 

[CSJr1]

Okay, I know this sounds harsh, and I realise I'm gonna get a lot of negativity, but I ask you to hear me out and let me know what you disagree with objectively.

1. Limiting choice of phones
2. No one cares about WP
3. Monotonous designs
4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.
5. No rugged or waterproof phones
6. Doesn't work with wearables
7. Misses official google apps; and games/apps in general.

.

Cheers!

I will be objective.

1. Limiting choice: 930,1020, and 1520. These are three flagships while iOS has 1. If you count the 5c then 2. But then you neglect the 5xx,6xx,8xx phones, the BLU phones. Mabye not as many as Android, but a good median.

2. No one cares about WP. I care. If you mean OEM, then there are OEMs that have recently launched new phones.

3. Monotonous design. All phones are not polycarbonate.

4. No brag-able feature. 41MP. Xbox live integration

5. No rugged phone: Lumia 620 IP54 Certified Now Available in Finland! | Nokia Revolution

6. Doesnt work with wearables: Now no. Couple weeks with official 8.1 Bluetooth LE will enable Fitbit

7. No Official Google Apps: This is on Google, not Microsoft.

 

[snowmutt]

At the risk of sounding a bit negative myself, WHEN did wearables become such an issue? By the way, MS is working on them, so even if they are important they got us covered.

The lack of new devices is a bit annoying. Make everyone a deal: If MS and it's OEMs do not start getting things announced and moving on new goodies by the fall and Holiday buying seasons, I will join the the bashers. Until then, let's just give the lack of new toys a one time pass. Let's face it, from the dozens of WP7 devices at launch, through the Mango update, the announcement of WP8 and so on, there has always been a slew of phones out. This is a lull, and if it is a one time thing then no harm no foul.

So far, I am still waiting for all the stories to come tumbling out that sales for WP are dropping. Yes, they are only at 4-5%, but they have climbed consistantly. If they make it past this "lull" without losing any marketshare, then they have weathered their toughest storm yet and that is reason for encouragement, not leaving a platform if it works for you.

Rugged WP's? Oh, I am with you on that one. Been begging for one since looking longingly at the Casio G'Zone Android Cammando at Verizon while I was still rocking my Samsung Focus S. I will continue to ask for one. I work in a "kill your phone" industrial enviorment. Cases are good, a designed rugged phone is usually better.

Overall, I get it. All the rumors and inactivity give way to these threads. Again, this is the place for them. But I truly believe with the CEO change, Nokia purchase,the recently announce OEMs added that want the latest WP 8.1 before finalizing thier offerings (developer previews are not the same as finalized released to manufacturers versions), and the continued march of apps being added to the Store that WP is not "dead in the water".

I think it is the calm before the WP storm. See those clouds? That is my favorite OS, about to unleash some nature on the top two OS's and continue the flooding into their douopoly. I see the next few years doing for WP what the last few did- double up on sales and push some top end devices that run as smooth as a just churned butter and mid-range devices that bury their offerings in performance and value.

Buy a canoe, Google and Apple.

 

[Chregu]

1. Limiting choice: 930,1020, and 1520. These are three flagships while iOS has 1. If you count the 5c then 2. But then you neglect the 5xx,6xx,8xx phones, the BLU phones. Mabye not as many as Android, but a good median.

The 1020 is about as much a flagship as the 808 is...

I think the comparison with the iPhone is always a little difficult. You are right, iPhones are expensive, there's only one flagship (actually, there's the 5S and the 5C and if rumors are true there will be a cheaper 4.7 inch and a more expensive 5.5 inch version of the iPhone 6), they might have limited features, but it doesn't matter. Apple still manages to sell them like hot cakes.

Also, naming the Xbox live integration as a bragable feature might be a touchy subject at the moment...

More mobile Xbox games delisted as Windows Phone struggles to find its way | Windows Phone Central

 

[Citizen X]

4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.

...like self-healing back panels. Heart rate monitors. Fingerprint scanners. Or even curved displays.

Yes, some of these are just gimmicky, but the sad reality is that we like gimmicks. In a world where 160 character conversations and 2 minute attention spans are fast becoming the norm, people like new, fancy things to show off, and then move on to the next big thing.
A lone Samsung phone (Ativ SE) has an IR blaster. And a few Lumias have PureView ? which is awesome and is not a gimmick, but cameras aren?t everything, and almost seem like a one trick pony at this stage.

iphone owners envy my 1520's camera. The camera is used A LOT unlike the other gimmicks you mentioned on other phones. I personally have never seen anyone talk about "self healing back panels" nor use a heart rate monitor nor fingerprint scanner. I keep my phone in my pocket so a curved display like some of the ridiculous LG phones is impractical. I have a Lumia 1520 so for long conversations I go with Bluetooth.

5. No rugged or waterproof phones

A long running gag is that Nokia phones can break through walls; but jokes aside, I don?t know any WP device that?s really weather-proof or built to take on the environment.
Sure, we have aftermarket cases that achieve this, but not everyone wants to cover their nice-looking phone in a military-grade case just to make it dust/waterproof.

Maybe Samsung is finally getting with the program but in the past if you every picked up a Samsung and compared it to a Nokia the difference was night and day. I frequently saw Galaxy Note's with broken back covers half snapped off in at&t stores. Samsung's build quality was terrible.

Cell phones are rapidly becoming commoditized. You are nitpicking and distorting all this stuff because when it comes down to it the Lumia phones have the exact same processors in them as the Samsungs. You just want to skip over the better camera which is a central feature of the device and go on about gimmicks Samsung has because you want to slander Windows Phone. If you asked me what I use my phone for my response would be phone calls, email, web surfing, taking pictures, and consuming media. My phone trounces any and all iphones for all those things. There is an app gap. Yes Windows Phone has the major apps but it is missing a lot of niche apps. That is a fair complaint. But to call the camera a one trick money is a bit much. That is like saying the better battery life in the 1520 is a "one trick pony." The camera is a key component. The rise of the cell phone camera has decimated the camera industry. None of the other features you say the Lumia's are missing have devastated a ubiquitous industry.

 

[MDMcAtee]

WP...isn't dead...not yet...but,needs consolidation

 

[Draganta]

or that we have better-than-the-official-app alternatives for YouTube and so on, but it doesn?t change the fact that WP does not have official google apps, and this matters to a lot of people.

No, people don't care about whether it is official or not. It just needs to work, that's it. I don't know what your source of this is, but my source is my years of experience as a usability tester / interaction designer. Most people don't know who makes stuff, as long as it works, and delivers the experience.

 

[Chregu]

No, people don't care about whether it is official or not. It just needs to work, that's it. I don't know what your source of this is, but my source is my years of experience as a usability tester / interaction designer. Most people don't know who makes stuff, as long as it works, and delivers the experience.

When I open the store and search for "Youtube" there are 4 hits that cost something, then "Tube Pro" that's the first and only hit being free. The next result is "Video" from Microsoft. None of these apps have the name Youtube.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that people would prefer a free Youtube app that has the name Youtube.

 

[MikeSo]

#4 and #7 in the OP are the things I agree with. The rest, meh.

WP needs some gimmick (other than the camera, which is boooring as a marketing tool) to sell phones. Samsung had their fake file transfers in the ads, iPhone has had various things. WP hasn't really had much "wow" things to market. The thing is, it doesn't even have to be that USEFUL. It just needs to LOOK like it is.

 

[Al4video]

The 1020 is about as much a flagship as the 808 is...

I think the comparison with the iPhone is always a little difficult. You are right, iPhones are expensive, there's only one flagship (actually, there's the 5S and the 5C and if rumors are true there will be a cheaper 4.7 inch and a more expensive 5.5 inch version of the iPhone 6), they might have limited features, but it doesn't matter. Apple still manages to sell them like hot cakes.

Also, naming the Xbox live integration as a bragable feature might be a touchy subject at the moment...

More mobile Xbox games delisted as Windows Phone struggles to find its way | Windows Phone Central

I think you are missing the bigger point. Who really gives a crap what the OP thinks about WP? Choosing a phone and a platform is a personal choice. Those who bought windows phone aren't stupid, they were well aware of it's strengths and it's weaknesses. I knew about the shortage of apps and the market share, what I would give up and what I would gain. The OP's post would only make any sense if he was buying phones for all of us. But since we all paid for our own phones with our own money based on intelligent decisions, his post makes zero sense. Unless someone reading this was stupid enough to purchase a phone of any OS without first doing your homework.

 

[Chregu]

I think you are missing the bigger point. Who really gives a crap what the OP thinks about WP? Choosing a phone and a platform is a personal choice. Those who bought windows phone aren't stupid, they were well aware of it's strengths and it's weaknesses. I knew about the shortage of apps and the market share, what I would give up and what I would gain. The OP's post would only make any sense if he was buying phones for all of us. But since we all paid for our own phones with our own money based on intelligent decisions, his post makes zero sense. Unless someone reading this was stupid enough to purchase a phone of any OS without first doing your homework.

You would be surprised how many people buy a phone in a store just because they like it, at least that's the impression I get from many threads in this forum.

So, are you saying that the sells people that don't recommend Windows Phone are right? Because a person should know exactly what phone they want to buy, and if they don't it's better to be on the safe side and recommend a phone without app gap? That's what I would do in their position, easy sell instead of trying to explain how great Windows Phone is despite the app gap.

I think you demand a lot of people that have not a deeper interest in these things. My girlfriend doesn't even understand the concept of a smartphone OS and she is the last year of her science PhD.

Additionally I think it would be very important for Microsoft to keep the current users, because they are a big part of the market share they have now and they want to have in the future. As you can see in this forum, many of these people are frustrated at the moment, including me. Are we the minority? I honestly don't know.

 

[jleebiker]

Panasonic will release soon such a device. Panasonic announces the FZ-E1, a new Windows Embedded 8 Handheld device | Windows Phone Central

That is quite possibly one of the ugliest phones I have ever seen.
/tangent alert
This is one of my beef's. Ruggedized phones that LOOK like ruggedized phones, i.e. Looks like this monstrosity. What happened to subtle? Look at the S5 Active for example. It's sleek. Modern looking. None of the rough edges like that Panasonic (I read the part that they are not marketing to consumers, but enterprise customers). But yet it still is IP67, MIL-STD 810, GG3. AND doesn't NEED an external case.

Getting back to the OP.
1) There are tons of these posts. Every time it stirs the pot.
2) It's just a phone people. You're not married to it. It's a TOOL just like any other tool. Find the one that best suits your needs.
3) Just because Toyota makes a pickup doesn't mean my Chevy Camaro is any LESS a great car. Same thing for phones. Just because one vendor makes something, doesn't mean MINE is any less good for me.

 

[MikeSo]

If there's one mantra that can sum up the WP community, its:
"Please be patient; we're getting there...soon...I think"

Oh come on. It's the same with EVERY community. Have you looked at iPhone or Android sites? Or for that matter, sports team sites... it's always about complaining about one's own product while enviously looking at what the others have and saying WE SHOULD HAVE THAT.
That's just the nature of fandom, internally (externally it's a whole different ballgame...).

 

[Jorge Holguin]

First of all Android is selling because it's cheap no because is unique. If that was the case they would be doing great on the high end market. But I have to give it that it's Apple territory, can WP get into that yes it can, it's going to be hard but nothing is written in stone yet. Naddella: "We're going to fight Google and Apple head on." I am so happy to see the new leadership at MS' headquarters shaking thins up dumping the good old habit and focusing on us the consumer.

 

[DER1996]

I don't really think that's true , I mean the only mobile OS that's truly dead in the water is one that has been discontinued e.g. : webOS .Even thugh windows phone does have its flaws , it has the accelerating development cycle and the wide availability of the updates to redeem them . That an Wp 8.1 has just been released officially and Update 1 is near completion and threshold is looming on the horizon I don't think WP is really dead in the water , it simply is lacking some bits ... but with the major reorgs going on and MS being a cash cow I think it's too early to consider it dead, and I know it has been falling recently ( a normal part of the smartphone cycle which happen to every platform ) but I think new phone releases are what it needs to make it go up again is new phones , which are aiming for holiday releases and will hopefully be a success , especially the Kinect phone because that really seems revolutionary....

 

[Chregu]

First of all Android is selling because it's cheap no because is unique. If that was the case they would be doing great on the high end market. But I have to give it that it's Apple territory, can WP get into that yes it can, it's going to be hard but nothing is written in stone yet. Naddella: "We're going to fight Google and Apple head on." I am so happy to see the new leadership at MS' headquarters shaking thins up dumping the good old habit and focusing on us the consumer.

I thought the Galaxy S5 sold not too badly, and if I remember correctly the HTC One did pretty well too.

Samsung reports it has sold 11M Galaxy S5 since launch - CNET

HTC One M8 returns HTC to profit - News - Trusted Reviews

How much greater do you want them to do?

 

[MarCou]

I read it again, very carefully, and I've concluded that it is not my reading that requires improvement. You said: "WP offers nothing at [this] time." A mobile OS that offers nothing is by definition a poor platform. That may not have been what you meant, but it is what you said.

I meant that WP itself is not a bad OS. I meant that it does not have any ecosystem to offer. Others have scales, fitbit, body composition scales, car integration, even grill thermomether. And, yes, apps.

I already gave you a incomplete list (updates would be another important issue). I'd suggest you go back and read my post :wink:
That list might not interest you, but it does interest me and many others here at WPC.

Yes, read it. And I admit that you may be right. I dont start to argue with you which one have better UI. It would be endless threat. And neither of us would be right.

I if you read my original post once more, I didnt say being waterproof is the only thing that matters in my world. I dont even have a waterproof phone. I said, that it could be a big deal for someone. And that someone takes waterproof phone. He cant take it from WPs assortment, cos there isnt one. So, everyone who wants waterproof phone is out of WPs game. And someone who wants a big choise of apps, but dont need waterproof phone... you know the rest.

And there still stands a bigger problem. You see, peoples dont buy UI or OS. They dont buy anymore phones. They buy a part of an ecosystem. And moreover they buy a possibility to ecosystem. What would you answer, if someone asks you that is there a scale, body measurement scale, is there a free spotify, or even a grill thermomether that is able to connect to this WP thing? If you say yes, you have to lie. They probably never buy a one. But they want to know that it is possible. You cant in most of the cases turn their heads just by telling abaut better UI.

When Elop came to Nokia, he told a lot of abaut ecosystem. Still there stands almost none. Even none of my gyms equipmet supports WP, most of them support iOS or Android.

No ecosystem, no nothing. And one smartwatch cant save this situation anymore.

I'd suggest we let everyone have their preferences, without claiming that any specific set of preferences make more or less sense... they don't... that is why they are preferences. Okay?

I wasnt claiming abaut bad choises. I was answering the thread why WP is lying in a standing water. And you cant deny that it is.

And of cos they dont make any sense. These are very emotional oriented things. Where ever you go peoples are arguing these same things, cars, ice-hockey, football, phones, what ever. It is just a part of a game. None of us is really right. Everyone have their own specific needs and most of us knows that very well. It is just a kind of entertaintmen for us all. We just wanna speculate with these things and want to tell our opinion and point of view. And it was just my five penny.

And I want to highlight that fact, that only thing that matters is, that everyone is liking his own phone. There is no matter is it waterproof, how big its marketshare is, how many apps there are or how good camera there is. If you like your own phone, it is right choise for you.

So, it is okay.

 

[Keith Wallace]

And clearly YOU alone know the reason; and everything everyone else says that disagrees with that is c**p.
What an attitude!

Because the problem has been the same from the start. Nothing's changed. You're blaming things that are missing from the competition (glance and SD support) and doing things that the competition is doing (unoriginal design). You're calling a phone running on 2-year-old parts a flagship.

It's annoying coming here for intelligent conversation, only to get the same "this is why it's failing," "this is how you fix it," and "this is why I'm leaving" crap that you and countless others get bumped to the top of the activity feed. It needs to stop because none of the stuff people are bringing up is new or different or original or a cure-all. It's redundant and frustrating to have this crap cover the forum.

 

[herbertsnow]

You're all backseat CEO's.

 

[Chregu]

You're all backseat CEO's.

I'm not. I can comfortably sit here and point fingers. I don't know how to make it better, I could bring up some ideas, but in the end I don't know what makes Microsoft acting like Microsoft. Bad analysts (we can start here again making the same round) and a lot of greed I guess.