07-15-2014 03:29 PM
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  1. jojoe42's Avatar
    I think it would make more sense if Microsoft made it easier for current Android developers to transition their apps and code to the Windows platform. That would be a better compromise (if they could somehow make it practical), apps would be optimised to run on Windows and devs wouldn't have to rewrite their code from scratch to write for a new platform
    07-13-2014 02:59 AM
  2. hoovermac's Avatar
    I have a Z30 running a slew of native BB and Android apps. Some of the Android apps run just fine right from the various stores; some of them are absolutely brutal. Apps that require Google Play services however, don't 100% work in the sandboxed Android runtime. Note that this has also been my experience with apps straight from the Google Play store on my Android tablet - some of them run perfectly and some are bloody awful!
    07-13-2014 06:22 AM
  3. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    evleaks>>>>Tom Warren.
    07-13-2014 06:25 AM
  4. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    I will not be surprised if Tom will be right.
    07-13-2014 07:08 AM
  5. Geddeeee's Avatar
    You see. I'm old school and computing was at is best when Google and MSFT and Java (Sun) were one many moons ago.

    Huh?

    Now they are three separate entities and a new competitor was born.

    Oops Apple.

    Before Apple. Google, MSFT and Java ruled the computing world. And they still do. But they are now weak and became three separate entries.

    Thus Apple became strong and dominant in computing.

    But I assure if Google, MSFT and Sun rejoin forces. Apple will be wipe of the face of the earth in computing.

    Thus Android apps on Windows Phones will be revolutionary again.

    Lol

    This is big. And if it happens this could be the next big thing.
    I think you may want to check your history.

    Apple were around in 1975, releasing the first home computer in 1976.
    MS have been around since 1974 when they did their first software.
    They both helped each other and have continued to do so. Never really any competition between the two. Only in the minds of journalists...

    Sun were around even before both of them...

    Google are relative newcomers to the industry, and have always been agressive when it comes to 'competing'.
    Agressively competing with other companies, only leads to failure in the long run, and MS nor Apple want to do that.

    The idea is to create innovative products, and hope that this molds the industry....
    Last edited by Geddeeee; 07-13-2014 at 09:36 AM.
    sd173 likes this.
    07-13-2014 07:48 AM
  6. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    Daniel Rubino>>Tom Warren
    neo158 and sd173 like this.
    07-13-2014 08:06 AM
  7. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    This time around though, I don't see anyone credible to jump out and say this is flat out false so there might be some truth in it or it's being considered at the moment.
    Mary Jo Foley said on Windows Weekly last week that none of her contacts replied to her on this issue. Not even a "no comment", which was worrisome for both her and Thurrott.

    I had planned on converting my WP80 app to a Universal App later this Summer but I'm going to hold off on that work until I get clarification on the future of the whole RT effort at MSFT.
    07-13-2014 08:38 AM
  8. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Mary Jo Foley said on Windows Weekly last week that none of her contacts replied to her on this issue. Not even a "no comment", which was worrisome for both her and Thurrott.

    I had planned on converting my WP80 app to a Universal App later this Summer but I'm going to hold off on that work until I get clarification on the future of the whole RT effort at MSFT.
    Well that is worrying, then again they probably pushed out these rumors intentionally to weed out the leaksters?
    I have thought long and hard about this, I don't see this happening as where will android lumia's or android apps fit into the one Microsoft vision?

    We have windows 8 pcs / tablets, windows phone 8 (soon to be merged with RT) and Xbox one (with its hybrid system of Xbox O/S, Windows 8 and the Bridge O/S for the switching) for the living room tied together by the cloud topped off by Cortana Integration. With these elements the three screen dream is almost a reality, plus wasn't Nokia's plan to use the X series as a "Launch pad" to push users into windows phone by tying them into MS services?.
    sd173 likes this.
    07-13-2014 09:43 AM
  9. Jazmac's Avatar
    Mary Jo Foley said on Windows Weekly last week that none of her contacts replied to her on this issue. Not even a "no comment", which was worrisome for both her and Thurrott.

    I had planned on converting my WP80 app to a Universal App later this Summer but I'm going to hold off on that work until I get clarification on the future of the whole RT effort at MSFT.
    That in itself doesn't mean you should worried. Moreover, a "no comment" response would signal something is amiss with Nadella we need to know about. It would to me anyway. With her questions still out there, lets see if she gets some kind of answer back this week.
    xandros9 likes this.
    07-13-2014 10:24 AM
  10. DJCBS's Avatar
    I don't get the problem of having Android apps running on WP. And I always feel like hitting with a chair the person that says "Android apps = Malware". That's the same that saying "Windows programs = malware" and equally stupid.

    Of course there's malware on Android. That's the price you pay for having an open source OS. Just like there's Malware on Windows. In either case, you only get the malware if you're reckless in your use of technology. If you try to pirate apps, meddle with those shady third party stores or if you're just downright dumb that download anything that has the name you're looking for in the title and don't bother to look at who's publishing it.

    At any rate, all Windows Phone Android apps would come from the Windows Store anyway. Which means, they'd be still checked for malware and all of that.
    The thing is: WP developers aren't committed to the platform. Microsoft needs apps. They simply have to find a way to bring those apps in. Is it a sign of capitulation of WP? Yeah. But then again, it's not worse than stale sales or inability to grow market share. Because ultimately, Microsoft shareholders will NOT allow Windows Phone to continue for much longer. If they can't grow its market share to the point of at least no-losses, they'll kill it.
    What do you prefer? WP living with Android apps, or WP dead? That's the question you should ask yourselves.
    xandros9 and sd173 like this.
    07-13-2014 11:15 AM
  11. Jazmac's Avatar
    I don't get the problem of having Android apps running on WP. And I always feel like hitting with a chair the person that says "Android apps = Malware". That's the same that saying "Windows programs = malware" and equally stupid.

    Of course there's malware on Android. That's the price you pay for having an open source OS. Just like there's Malware on Windows. In either case, you only get the malware if you're reckless in your use of technology. If you try to pirate apps, meddle with those shady third party stores or if you're just downright dumb that download anything that has the name you're looking for in the title and don't bother to look at who's publishing it.

    At any rate, all Windows Phone Android apps would come from the Windows Store anyway. Which means, they'd be still checked for malware and all of that.
    The thing is: WP developers aren't committed to the platform. Microsoft needs apps. They simply have to find a way to bring those apps in. Is it a sign of capitulation of WP? Yeah. But then again, it's not worse than stale sales or inability to grow market share. Because ultimately, Microsoft shareholders will NOT allow Windows Phone to continue for much longer. If they can't grow its market share to the point of at least no-losses, they'll kill it.
    What do you prefer? WP living with Android apps, or WP dead? That's the question you should ask yourselves.
    Given the question I would say dead. Effectively it would be dead as a platform. Windows Phone then becomes just another competitor for android and that battle has already been won by Samsung and believe me, they have the weapons, talent and money, should they choose to use them to take on a "failed" platform Windows Phone in their own arena. Which means the alternatives that remain, IOS or Android. But I'm not yet ready to become a pallbearer because the new CEO lacks the vision or confidence to make this platform succeed in the mobile space. Moreover I can't yet believe the board selected him for the express purpose of dismantling Windows Phone. I much rather it go into hibernation than be kept afloat by android. I love the platform too much.
    sd173, Ray Adams and BitPusher2600 like this.
    07-13-2014 12:17 PM
  12. RavenSword's Avatar
    I think what people are failing to realize is that windows phones top priority right now needs to be apps and getting app support. It's clear that the way they are doing it now is not working, so if they don't do something like this now, then the platform is going to continue its slow death spiral. It's pretty obvious most debs don't care about windows phone right now. So MS needs to adapt to that.

    They can then differentiate themselves by doing things like better office integration, better accessibility with MS services, and closer tie ins with XBOX or your remote PC.

    And honestly, android malware is largely overblown.
    DJCBS and rodan01 like this.
    07-13-2014 01:50 PM
  13. Blacklac's Avatar
    There's nothing more annoying than dealing with Android UI elements on a non Android device. I've dealt with it on Blackberry. I was excited for Android Apps on Blackberry until I actually used some. You can't even use the full functionality of some Apps due to the restrictions that Blackberry places on them. I think that has improved over time, but Windows is even more closed than Blackberry. I don't see this being a pleasant experience.

    For every App that initially launches as an Android App and over time, go towards native code, just as many Apps choose to go the easy way and skip native code and give us an Android App just so we have something and shut up.

    I don't like it. Once Windows and WP are more unified, we will get the Apps.
    jojoe42, Jazmac, sd173 and 2 others like this.
    07-13-2014 02:09 PM
  14. tohoshinki's Avatar
    I think this is a great move. Developers really haven't produced the kind of apps Windows Phone needs to succeed. Huge apps like eBay, Spotify, Pandora and Instagram all SUCK on WP compared to other platforms. There are countless other examples not counting the apps that simply aren't available. I love windows phone for how it works, not for the apps. I like it for the things wp7 did better than its competitors. Start screen, no-lag, great camera, keyboard, windows integration, speed etc.

    Nadella wants Microsoft to be fully cross platform. While Apple and Google are trying to lock you in, MS services work flawlessly across every platform.

    If Microsoft really wants to kick some ***, it'll release an XBOX api for android games, and provide a way for android apps to pin content to the start screen.

    If Microsoft has a bigger presence on android devices and boosts their own platform, they'll give themselves a huge leg up.
    rodan01 likes this.
    07-13-2014 02:09 PM
  15. Ray Adams's Avatar
    This will be an end of WP. No one will produce apps if you can get all Android apps on your phone. And believe me all those apps won't run as good as native WP apps do So you will get crappies experience from WP phones with Android apps! A lot of WP developers will leave OS and move to iOS or Android.

    Microsoft, is this your feature? Thats how you show that you are making mistake by mistake with your own OS? Fine, then your OS will be dead
    07-13-2014 03:14 PM
  16. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    Will be the death of native development of WP.
    And you guys might hate Tom, but he is a reliable source. Remember who leaked our dear Cortana? =D

    And Eldar also say so...

    07-13-2014 03:51 PM
  17. drachen23's Avatar
    I think this is a great move. Developers really haven't produced the kind of apps Windows Phone needs to succeed. Huge apps like eBay, Spotify, Pandora and Instagram all SUCK on WP compared to other platforms. There are countless other examples not counting the apps that simply aren't available. I love windows phone for how it works, not for the apps. I like it for the things wp7 did better than its competitors. Start screen, no-lag, great camera, keyboard, windows integration, speed etc.
    So basically you want a GS5 with the WP start screen. If MS decides to do this, that's what Windows Phone will become, except worse. The way MS will probably do this is to create a Dalvik/ART-compatible runtime sitting alongside the existing Silverlight 7/8 and WinRT runtimes. It will be a lot like Amazon's Fire Phone where it doesn't use Google's Play Store. The apps would be submitted to the MS store as Android apps and go through the same tests WP apps currently go through. There would be no threat of malware any more than there is now. The new VM also won't use Google apps and services like Maps and Account logins. The WP Android runtime will depend on both updated AOSP (Android open-source releases) and reverse-engineering any bits Google keeps to themselves. It will take a while to get the latest version of Android, especially if the next version of Android is released just after a major WP release... like it was this year. Since the ART runtime will need to share resources with the existing Silverlight and WinRT runtimes making the phone that much slower and use more battery. Android apps are infamous for using a lot of resources in background tasks as well.

    This is going to **** off Microsoft developers. A lot. Over the past 4 years or so, Microsoft has had a really bad habit of killing off technologies and APIs that MS has sold developers on and then tossed in the trash bin. WPF, XNA and Silverlight are just three technologies that have been killed (or at least left for dead) over the past few years and two of them should be familiar with WP fans. XNA was deprecated with WP8 and Silverlight is the legacy tech with the new XAML/WinRT runtime introduced in WP 8.1 the preferred one going forward. We finally thought MS was doing something good when it started to harmonize the Windows 8 and WP APIs, but now it may also be adding Android. Why would any sane programmer stand for that? Why not just write your app for Android and be done with it. It's hard to overestimate how upset MS devs have been lately and how excited we were at //Build this year. That would all be undone by this.

    There's the matter of compatibility. Writing a VM is hard, but if anyone can do it right, it's the guys at MS. Still, no VM is perfect and there will be compatibility differences between the real Android Dalvik/ART and the MS VM. It could be that the app you desperately want runs fine on the GS5 but crashes every time on WP. Would the vendor spend a lot of time tracking down bugs for a non-standard VM that covers 3% of the market? This is a big issue for Blackberry. Or was. Is Blackberry still around? How about apps that use root access or Google-only services? And now that this avenue is open, why would ANY sane organization spend time or money developing apps just for WP? Why learn a whole new API and maintain a brand new product just to support 3% of the market when you could get away with just modifying your Android app a bit? Android apps won't support cool things about WP like live tiles and I'm not sure how MS would support widgets. This will not only kill interest in WP but also in Windows 8.x app development. WP has more devs than Windows at the moment (sad but true!) and MS was hoping to bring WP devs into Windows as much of not more than the reverse. If WP is subsumed by Android, Windows is now an island again. Will WP devs bother with Windows at all? Won't the API just change again next year again maybe even to Android?

    To recap, WP running Android apps has the following benefits:
    • We may get the Android version of [name of cool app] on our phones


    And the following problems:
    • We will get the Android-specific version of [name of cool app], not one that looks like WP or uses WP-specific features
    • Which may be buggy due to differences between the MS runtime and the Google runtime
    • Which won't support live tiles and WP won't support widgets (key for me personally)
    • Which may not arrive at all due to Google services integration or other issues that the dev doesn't want to spend time to fix for only 3% of the market
    • Android version (ex. 4.4 Kitkat or 4.3 Jellybean) on WP would lag behind real Android by 6 months at best, years at worst
    • Windows Phone 3rd-party development would essentially stop
    • Even MS-focused devs would stop making WP (and possibly Windows) apps and concentrate on Android or worse, iOS (which wouldn't run on the new WP at all)
    • WP phones start to use more battery and become slower with the additional runtime overhead and Android's notoriously resource-intensive background task overhead
    • Consumers get confused because of app availability and compatibility problems compared to standard Android devices and WP devices get a reputation as buggy


    The end result of this mess is that WP basically becomes an Android device with a nice-looking but sparse launcher, a smaller store and some compatibility problems. Why anyone would want that instead of a One M8 or GS5 is beyond me.

    I love WP. I have owned about 6 Windows Phones from the original Focus to the 1020 and 1520. I have written over half a dozen WP apps myself. I feel the app gap as much or more than most of you as I've had to make the decision in my professional life not to support WP with products due to cost/effort for my company vs WP market share. I want WP to succeed, but this has all the makings of a disaster.
    forked and dalydose like this.
    07-13-2014 04:15 PM
  18. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    Will be the death of native development of WP.
    And you guys might hate Tom, but he is a reliable source. Remember who leaked our dear Cortana? =D

    And Eldar also say so...

    Eldar is bullsh*t, just like his tweets.
    psudotechzealot likes this.
    07-13-2014 04:45 PM
  19. onysi's Avatar
    I would welcome this, if microsoft keeps up with quality WP apps. I really hate android/ioS app interface. They look very claustrophobic.
    07-13-2014 05:32 PM
  20. taymur's Avatar
    07-13-2014 05:36 PM
  21. rodan01's Avatar
    To recap, WP running Android apps has the following benefits:
    • We may get the Android version of [name of cool app] on our phones


    And the following problems:
    • We will get the Android-specific version of [name of cool app], not one that looks like WP or uses WP-specific features
    • Which may be buggy due to differences between the MS runtime and the Google runtime
    • Which won't support live tiles and WP won't support widgets (key for me personally)
    • Which may not arrive at all due to Google services integration or other issues that the dev doesn't want to spend time to fix for only 3% of the market
    • Android version (ex. 4.4 Kitkat or 4.3 Jellybean) on WP would lag behind real Android by 6 months at best, years at worst
    • Windows Phone 3rd-party development would essentially stop
    • Even MS-focused devs would stop making WP (and possibly Windows) apps and concentrate on Android or worse, iOS (which wouldn't run on the new WP at all)
    • WP phones start to use more battery and become slower with the additional runtime overhead and Android's notoriously resource-intensive background task overhead
    • Consumers get confused because of app availability and compatibility problems compared to standard Android devices and WP devices get a reputation as buggy
    If Microsoft is betting in Android apps they could add APIs to take advantage of the features of the platform (Live Tiles, Cortana, XBOX, etc.), and custom UI components to match the Metro design. Buggy apps shouldn't be accepted in the store.

    There are still incentives for native development:
    *If an Android apps don't work well (bugs, performance or lack key features of the platform), It's a big incentive for native development. With a low quality app developers don't make money.
    *Android apps will help with the perception of the platform, the market share will increase. If WP grows to 5% of market share, that's 100 million people, an interesting niche to target with a good native app. The bigger the market share, the bigger the incentive for native development.
    *Developers still have to work in an app for Windows tablets and desktop, even XBOX. Universal apps is another incentive for native development.
    *Microsoft can choose what Android apps will be accepted in the store, define conditions, add incentives to move to native if an app become popular.
    *Microsoft has to use resources, (money, developers) to guarantee native apps for the key services in which users spend most of their time. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. So, 80% or more of the effective usage time has to be a high quality native experience.

    Android apps are going to help this platform to take off. Without Android app It'd take years or maybe WP could die.
    Last edited by rodan01; 07-13-2014 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Grammar
    07-13-2014 07:30 PM
  22. Jazmac's Avatar
    Man, Surur is about as technologically dishonest as they come in this space. Always, and I do mean always assume this cat is lying until its corroborated by at least 3 reliable sources.
    sd173 and Akhilesh Bhambhani like this.
    07-13-2014 07:48 PM
  23. rodan01's Avatar
    Man, Surur is about as technologically dishonest as they come in this space. Always, and I do mean always assume this cat is lying until its corroborated by at least 3 reliable sources.
    Surur is quoting Peter Bright from Ars Technica, another good source. Android apps are coming and we shall celebrate.
    07-13-2014 08:00 PM
  24. Jazmac's Avatar
    I have a question, did anyone listen to that entire video Chuong Nguyen dropped on the main board where June 29th? I couldn't get past all the profane language from that Lockergnome dude and bailed on it but the post was titled Something Major is coming to Windows Phone. If you listened to it, did either one of those guys describe android on WP or say what they thought this major thing was?
    07-13-2014 08:19 PM
  25. Jazmac's Avatar
    Surur is quoting Peter Bright from Ars Technica, another good source. Android apps are coming and we shall celebrate.
    I'll celebrate when there is something to celebrate.
    squire777 likes this.
    07-13-2014 08:23 PM
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