07-15-2014 03:29 PM
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  1. DJCBS's Avatar
    I have a question, did anyone listen to that entire video Chuong Nguyen dropped on the main board where June 29th? I couldn't get past all the profane language from that Lockergnome dude and bailed on it but the post was titled Something Major is coming to Windows Phone. If you listened to it, did either one of those guys describe android on WP or say what they thought this major thing was?
    No. The fat guy in the video, that works for Microsoft, said only that something major was coming to Windows Phone that would p*ss off EVERYBODY. And that his reaction when they told him was "...can you do that?".

    So...it may be the Android apps, yeah. It will p*ss off Google because the app gap is gone. It will p*ss off hardcore WP fans because they're Android apps. And it will p*ss off Apple because it's almost as if two major software companies had merged into one in the mobile space.
    07-13-2014 08:29 PM
  2. dalydose's Avatar
    No. The fat guy in the video, that works for Microsoft, said only that something major was coming to Windows Phone that would p*ss off EVERYBODY. And that his reaction when they told him was "...can you do that?".

    So...it may be the Android apps, yeah. It will p*ss off Google because the app gap is gone. It will p*ss off hardcore WP fans because they're Android apps. And it will p*ss off Apple because it's almost as if two major software companies had merged into one in the mobile space.
    He didn't say it would "p!ss off", anyone. He used the word "upset" and he wasn't clear if he meant upset as in anger or upset as in abruptly change.
    07-13-2014 08:32 PM
  3. Elitis's Avatar
    Not iOS but Droid apps. Droids apps are open source and can run on any platform because they are made up in Java and are not limited to Google inc or any man made platform. Droid apps can run freely on any platform known to man. If Windows Phones allow Droids apps that will be awesome.

    The app Gap will close overnight. Believe it.

    Hopefully Warren is creditable.
    ...Android apps are NOT open-source, and as of now does not run on all platforms. Java does not run on WP, RT, or iOS. It is desktop platform independent. Please learn a bit about programming before saying things like this.
    k0de and a5cent like this.
    07-13-2014 08:42 PM
  4. k0de's Avatar
    ...Android apps are NOT open-source, and as of now does not run on all platforms. Java does not run on WP, RT, or iOS. It is desktop platform independent. Please learn a bit about programming before saying things like this.
    Lol.

    Just because you don't know how to run Java on other platforms doesn't mean it can't live outside of an Android device.

    Sure it can. If you know what you are doing.

    Perhaps you should you should go back and learn alot more about programming before saying something like that.

    This is not web pages or Desktop applications programming that we're talking about. But systems internals😊,

    You wont find the answers on Wikipedia either. You better start writing your Own Operating System from scratch.

    You need a link?
    Last edited by k0de; 07-13-2014 at 09:34 PM.
    07-13-2014 09:03 PM
  5. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Surur is quoting Peter Bright from Ars Technica, another good source. Android apps are coming and we shall celebrate.
    My hope is that MSFT finds a way to create Android apps in Visual Studio. I've installed the entire Android Studio mess twice and deleted it almost immediately because it barely functioned (errors between 32 and 64 bit JDKs, etc.) and had horrible performance. It would be nice to use a real dev environment for Android.

    Side note: if this rumor is correct and MSFT is somehow cramming non-Google Android support into WP8 then it shows that the MSFT brass are *still* delusional. I imagine they think that they can drive a wedge between Google and Android developers by only having AOSP support. Their previous delusion was that they thought they could force Windows ISVs to pay them 30% of sales by replacing Win32 with WinRT. How'd that work out for them? It basically knifed all their most loyal ISVs and MSFT paid the price (billions of $$$ in outright losses, two top executives gone, billions of $$$ in lost future revenue, etc.).
    k0de and Jazmac like this.
    07-13-2014 09:15 PM
  6. Jazmac's Avatar
    No. The fat guy in the video, that works for Microsoft, said only that something major was coming to Windows Phone that would p*ss off EVERYBODY. And that his reaction when they told him was "...can you do that?".

    So...it may be the Android apps, yeah. It will p*ss off Google because the app gap is gone. It will p*ss off hardcore WP fans because they're Android apps. And it will p*ss off Apple because it's almost as if two major software companies had merged into one in the mobile space.
    Oh ok. I wonder how long this has been kicked around on other forums to where this might be seriously considered as a way to close the gap where apps are concerned on this platform? If this happens, will MS have android apps in its store the same way Amazon has android apps it theirs? Neither of which support google services. I could see google adding code that blocks features on phones that also run Windows Phone software.
    k0de and psudotechzealot like this.
    07-13-2014 09:43 PM
  7. k0de's Avatar
    My hope is that MSFT finds a way to create Android apps in Visual Studio. I've installed the entire Android Studio mess twice and deleted it almost immediately because it barely functioned (errors between 32 and 64 bit JDKs, etc.) and had horrible performance. It would be nice to use a real dev environment for Android.

    Side note: if this rumor is correct and MSFT is somehow cramming non-Google Android support into WP8 then it shows that the MSFT brass are *still* delusional. I imagine they think that they can drive a wedge between Google and Android developers by only having AOSP support. Their previous delusion was that they thought they could force Windows ISVs to pay them 30% of sales by replacing Win32 with WinRT. How'd that work out for them? It basically knifed all their most loyal ISVs and MSFT paid the price (billions of $$$ in outright losses, two top executives gone, billions of $$$ in lost future revenue, etc.).
    Same here can't wait for the day that VS come shipped with Android support already installed.


    Have you try ARM DS-5 Community Edition IDE.

    http://ds.arm.com/ds-5-community-edition/
    07-13-2014 09:47 PM
  8. drachen23's Avatar
    There are still incentives for native development:
    *If an Android apps don't work well (bugs, performance or lack key features of the platform), It's a big incentive for native development. With a low quality app developers don't make money.
    It doesn't work this way for Blackberry. You could argue that Blackberry is on its way down, but WP isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either. What incentive does Secret (a random hot app) have to use WP live tiles if MS made an Android library available? If the Android version of Secret works on WP, why would they bother to spend time to make sure live tiles work? Let's say the Android version works on WP. It's not like the people who want to use Secret will refuse to use it without live tiles or that live tiles bring in new users. I have no doubt that project managers will have those features on their radar, but they won't be high-priority compared to regular bug fixes and new features.

    *Android apps will help with the perception of the platform, the market share will increase. If WP grows to 5% of market share, that's 100 million people, an interesting niche to target with a good native app. The bigger the market share, the bigger the incentive for native development.
    It may help market uptake a bit, but I don't see the logic in "Getting people to do A isn't working. Let's let them do B and maybe it will convince them to do A." Now you've got people doing B because it's easier since their doing B anyway. Why would they do A? If it's a matter of time and money, they won't.

    *Developers still have to work in an app for Windows tablets and desktop, even XBOX. Universal apps is another incentive for native development.
    One of those platforms is floundering badly (worse than WP at least) and the other hasn't been officially launched (the app store part, anyway). Windows Phone is the closest thing MS has to a mature app store using XAML/WinJS/WinRT at the moment.

    *Microsoft can choose what Android apps will be accepted in the store, define conditions, add incentives to move to native if an app become popular.
    This is a good point. MS does have some leverage there.

    *Microsoft has to use resources, (money, developers) to guarantee native apps for the key services in which users spend most of their time. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. So, 80% or more of the effective usage time has to be a high quality native experience.
    They have been doing pretty much just this for the past 3+ years.

    Android apps are going to help this platform to take off. Without Android app It'd take years or maybe WP could die.
    Maybe it's the high-risk kick the platform needs, maybe it's just delaying the inevitable, maybe it's what finally kills WP. I don't feel confident about it. It feels like a desperation move. I guess we'll see. I just wish MS would clear up their strategy sooner rather than later. All this speculation is driving the community nuts.
    07-13-2014 09:56 PM
  9. carlos12001's Avatar
    It doesn't work this way for Blackberry. You could argue that Blackberry is on its way down, but WP isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either. What incentive does Secret (a random hot app) have to use WP live tiles if MS made an Android library available? If the Android version of Secret works on WP, why would they bother to spend time to make sure live tiles work? Let's say the Android version works on WP. It's not like the people who want to use Secret will refuse to use it without live tiles or that live tiles bring in new users. I have no doubt that project managers will have those features on their radar, but they won't be high-priority compared to regular bug fixes and new features.



    It may help market uptake a bit, but I don't see the logic in "Getting people to do A isn't working. Let's let them do B and maybe it will convince them to do A." Now you've got people doing B because it's easier since their doing B anyway. Why would they do A? If it's a matter of time and money, they won't.



    One of those platforms is floundering badly (worse than WP at least) and the other hasn't been officially launched (the app store part, anyway). Windows Phone is the closest thing MS has to a mature app store using XAML/WinJS/WinRT at the moment.



    This is a good point. MS does have some leverage there.



    They have been doing pretty much just this for the past 3+ years.



    Maybe it's the high-risk kick the platform needs, maybe it's just delaying the inevitable, maybe it's what finally kills WP. I don't feel confident about it. It feels like a desperation move. I guess we'll see. I just wish MS would clear up their strategy sooner rather than later. All this speculation is driving the community nuts.
    Agreed.
    07-13-2014 10:02 PM
  10. Jazmac's Avatar
    Same here can't wait for the day that VS come shipped with Android support already installed.


    Have you try ARM DS-5 Community Edition IDE.

    DS-5 Community Edition | ARM Development Studio 5
    So you are cool with the idea of WP running android along side Windows apps? First question I have would those apps be able to share info such as Facebook security info or would one be largely be independent of the other? If you know that is.
    k0de likes this.
    07-13-2014 10:11 PM
  11. k0de's Avatar
    So you are cool with the idea of WP running android along side Windows apps? First question I have would those apps be able to share info such as Facebook security info or would one be largely be independent of the other? If you know that is.
    Yes I am just recently to increase volume in the store.

    That is a very good question. What are the pros and cons?

    For security reasons ill say independent of each other.

    But please elaborate further the difference between the two to clarify my understanding.

    Thanks
    07-13-2014 10:19 PM
  12. dalydose's Avatar
    Eldar is bullsh*t, just like his tweets.
    That doesn't refuse his point.
    07-13-2014 10:20 PM
  13. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Same here can't wait for the day that VS come shipped with Android support already installed.
    I said that because I believe MSFT should ditch Windows Phone and become more of a pure software application/tool company. They're killing Windows Desktop right now with WinRT (which will never fly, which means Windows itself is dead) and that means Windows Phone has absolutely no chance. They will have no viable operating system in ten years (I have no idea which OS will end up dominating the laptop/desktop market).

    Have you try ARM DS-5 Community Edition IDE.
    DS-5 Community Edition | ARM Development Studio 5
    Nope. I'm an old developer and can ride off into the sunset with Win32, C++, and Visual Studio. They'll continue to pay the bills for a decade. If they make a version that can also create Android apps then I'd be happy.
    k0de likes this.
    07-13-2014 10:57 PM
  14. k0de's Avatar
    I said that because I believe MSFT should ditch Windows Phone and become more of a pure software application/tool company. They're killing Windows Desktop right now with WinRT (which will never fly, which means Windows itself is dead) and that means Windows Phone has absolutely no chance. They will have no viable operating system in ten years (I have no idea which OS will end up dominating the laptop/desktop market).


    Nope. I'm an old developer and can ride off into the sunset with Win32, C++, and Visual Studio. They'll continue to pay the bills for a decade. If they make a version that can also create Android apps then I'd be happy.
    It is evident with Satya that MSFT cloud first campaign is moving into position to be a Software tool company.

    But is the hardware department dead though? I don't think so.

    I believe that since the acquisition of Nokia and the push for the Surface line. MSFT is quietly making a move on hardware division also.

    You can't go wrong with VS. Glad to hear that VS had been good to you. Hopefully soon Android support is introduced to VS soon.

    To bad you didn't like the ARM IDE.

    What about NetBeans. Or Eclipse?

    They both support Android rather nicely. Best of all everything is free.

    https://netbeans.org/

    http://eclipse.org/

    Also take codeblocks for a spin. Is very similar to VS.

    http://www.codeblocks.org/
    Last edited by k0de; 07-13-2014 at 11:53 PM.
    Isaac Abraham1 likes this.
    07-13-2014 11:09 PM
  15. rodan01's Avatar
    It doesn't work this way for Blackberry. You could argue that Blackberry is on its way down, but WP isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either.
    BlackBerry is a different case. That company collapsed financially months after the launch of BB10, that killed the OS. They launched only one touch device before the collapse, the z10, overpriced and targeting the iPhone. The Android apps had to be published in BlackBerry World in an alternative format, few developers got interested because even today the user base of BB10 is less than 5 million users. So, Android apps is not the important problem for BlackBerry, they didn't have many of those, they didn't have many native apps either, they didn't have apps at all because they don't have users.
    Only two weeks ago they announced an agreement with Amazon to pre-install their app store, now they have the apps. But, the brand is destroyed, everybody knows that BlackBerry is dead, so maybe It's too late for them, time will tell.

    What incentive does Secret (a random hot app) have to use WP live tiles if MS made an Android library available? If the Android version of Secret works on WP, why would they bother to spend time to make sure live tiles work? Let's say the Android version works on WP. It's not like the people who want to use Secret will refuse to use it without live tiles or that live tiles bring in new users. I have no doubt that project managers will have those features on their radar, but they won't be high-priority compared to regular bug fixes and new features.
    It may help market uptake a bit, but I don't see the logic in "Getting people to do A isn't working. Let's let them do B and maybe it will convince them to do A." Now you've got people doing B because it's easier since their doing B anyway. Why would they do A? If it's a matter of time and money, they won't.
    Secret is a social network, that's not a good example because they improve the quality of the app mainly increasing the number of users (network effect), not so much with the quality of the app itself. The WP user will use the app even if It sucks because all their friends use the app.
    Although, for example, a subscription music app, you won't subscribe to their service if the app sucks. The quality of the app impacts the profits directly, It can give them an edge over the competitors. The decision to build a native app is determined by: the size of the user base, the improvement of the experience of going native vs Android app, the relation between quality and profit for the app, the cost of development (that can be reduced with universal apps). Different combinations of those variables produce different decision for each category of app and developer, and these variables change in time. So, the end result is a mixed app store in which native, android and html5 coexist.

    One of those platforms is floundering badly (worse than WP at least) and the other hasn't been officially launched (the app store part, anyway). Windows Phone is the closest thing MS has to a mature app store using XAML/WinJS/WinRT at the moment.
    I think sales of Windows tablets will improve for a couple of reasons. They're about to enter in the low-end for the first time, until now tablet sales were like WP sales without the Lumia 520. Windows tablet has a big advantage in the enterprise and the education market. Windows dominate the hybrid devices and probably that form factor is going to grow faster in the future.

    They have been doing pretty much just this for the past 3+ years.
    They can concentrate in top apps if Android apps cover big part of the ground.

    Maybe it's the high-risk kick the platform needs, maybe it's just delaying the inevitable, maybe it's what finally kills WP. I don't feel confident about it. It feels like a desperation move. I guess we'll see. I just wish MS would clear up their strategy sooner rather than later. All this speculation is driving the community nuts.
    It feels as a desperate move because It is a desperate move. Most of the sales of WP are low-end devices, WP had a performance advantage over Android, but now Android is improving in low-end hardware. The main reason to buy a WP for most of the user base is gone, and the main reason to avoid WP, the app gap, is still there. Time to move.
    Last edited by rodan01; 07-13-2014 at 11:35 PM.
    k0de likes this.
    07-13-2014 11:13 PM
  16. androidtoWM's Avatar
    I'm older and he just posted this comment. But the bigger question for me is, who is Tom Warren? I see his posts in this forum often and he is treated like he is some mega "insider".
    he used to run the blog winrumors and now works for The Verge. He's usually right about MS related rumors (especially Windows Phone).
    07-14-2014 12:46 AM
  17. Dave Bhullar's Avatar
    I don't think Android/iOS apps on WP would be a good idea. Maybe Microsoft is working on making it super simple for developers to port apps from Android to WP and that might be the real reason behind these rumors, just an optimistic guess lol.
    07-14-2014 12:46 AM
  18. androidtoWM's Avatar
    One other journalist have confirmed the existence of Android apps on WP.
    Ars Technica MS correspondent Peter Bright. https://twitter.com/DrPizza/status/488169562731323393

    I don't think any developer would be interested in developing native windows phone apps if these rumors are true (there will be exceptions but majority of them won't be interested).
    07-14-2014 12:49 AM
  19. Dave Bhullar's Avatar
    He didn't say it would "p!ss off", anyone. He used the word "upset" and he wasn't clear if he meant upset as in anger or upset as in abruptly change.
    I remember he clarified in the comments section that it's gonna be a positive change for WP users
    07-14-2014 12:52 AM
  20. girishN's Avatar
    Instead of developing a virtual machine for android they could make an app porting kind of software, just one click to port and if app was in android's default design language then android's elements could get changed with similar elements of windows phone keeping the functionality same. Android apps layout is identical to windows phone's pivot/panoramic layout in functionality.
    07-14-2014 04:40 AM
  21. dlalonde's Avatar
    When I heard that maybe WP would become compatible with Android apps, I was turned off and thought this rang the end of Windows Phone. Why keep a platform alive if companies don't even have to make apps for it? I really thought it would be the death of WP and started looking at the price of iPhones.

    Then I thought of it differently.

    WP is first and foremost a user experience, an ecosystem if you will. The general experience itself is quite different to that of Android. But it is just that: an experience, a feeling, a way of using this tool that is the smartphone. Something that you can, yes, tweak Android to LOOK like but never imitate or surpass. Android has its own ecosystem with Google in the middle of it all with Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Play and so on. WP is the same with Outlook and the Microsoft Store.

    But there's one thing lacking with Windows Phone that many complain about: apps. Most companies (not all I know) either create subpar apps that they don't even bother updating (Instagram, Vine) if any at all (Flipboard, Google services). For example, the two radio stations I listen to the most have an iPhone and an Android app. My bank, same. The news paper I read the most, same. And so on...

    Now given that Microsoft cannot force companies to invest in creating and maintaining apps (because lets not forget that an App costs money to develop and maintain even when they are free), if the rumours are true, they decided to take matters in their own hands to bring us, their users, the apps we want with their features.

    So where's the harm really? All those who really like WP will not cross over to Android or iPhone because of it. They won't have to. They will have all that they need on the WP platform.

    Plus, to all those calling the end of WP, do you really think MS would invest so much in developing Cortana if it was about to pack it in and just create Android phones? Again, developing such a complex system costs money and Microsoft did not become a company worth and generating billions by throwing money out the windows (no pun intended).

    Now if they manage to do this better than Blackberry did, making the apps run more smoothly, and manage to protect users from malware and Google's evil prying eye, then I'm on board.

    And remember we can't be dogmatic about this, it's just a bloody phone! ;)
    rodan01 likes this.
    07-14-2014 05:18 AM
  22. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Just asking..
    Why not shift to some stock Android Phone and literally close the app gap overnight?
    If you're here for the UI and Nokia can try X2?
    Just asking why people want it here on a different platform? No offense. :)

    Some people want the WP OS with the quality, choice and flexibility they get on Android. In short, they like the Google apps because many of them are really good and cater for a lot of users also globally (where WP lacks a lot) but don't want the Android UI or the issues Google causes to its users with that OS that basically sucks all your personal data etc etc.. Long story short, that's it. 4 years waiting for basic functionalities is too long. It's better if they open to an ecosystem that's already there. I'd stay on WP if they allowed me to add the apps i am missing and the keyboard input i need from a third party app developer on Android.
    rodan01 likes this.
    07-14-2014 10:45 AM
  23. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    So where's the harm really? All those who really like WP will not cross over to Android or iPhone because of it. They won't have to. They will have all that they need on the WP platform.
    That's exactly so. I am just waiting for the apps i need to shift completely to WP. I couldn't care less if the apps come from Android, from Mars or from the Moon (An App is an App i need it and take it from where i get the best). What i want is to keep the OS and add up what i need. Like me i think many others tired of Google.
    My 2 cents. There is nothing to fear for WP. It's only going to bring more users. Why go back to Android if you can have the Android apps without having to deal with Google? WP is suitable once you add up what you need.
    rodan01 likes this.
    07-14-2014 10:50 AM
  24. twint7787's Avatar
    That's exactly so. I am just waiting for the apps i need to shift completely to WP. I couldn't care less if the apps come from Android, from Mars or from the Moon (An App is an App i need it and take it from where i get the best). What i want is to keep the OS and add up what i need. Like me i think many others tired of Google.
    My 2 cents. There is nothing to fear for WP. It's only going to bring more users. Why go back to Android if you can have the Android apps without having to deal with Google? WP is suitable once you add up what you need.
    I don't think the general public see it that way though. I also don't think most people think Google is evil, or any more evil than any big tech company; they are learning to live with this kind of invasion of privacy if you will. If MS does this I honestly can not see this being a good thing for native app development IMO. All we have are opinions I suppose. Read this article if you have not already
    Android apps on Windows Phone would be an ugly capitulation | Ars Technica
    07-14-2014 11:28 AM
  25. dlalonde's Avatar
    I don't think the general public see it that way though. I also don't think most people think Google is evil, or any more evil than any big tech company; they are learning to live with this kind of invasion of privacy if you will. If MS does this I honestly can not see this being a good thing for native app development IMO. All we have are opinions I suppose. Read this article if you have not already
    Android apps on Windows Phone would be an ugly capitulation | Ars Technica
    Oh it will probably be an important jab at native apps. That's a given... then again it all depends how it's done. But when you look at the most popular apps, the differences between other OS is getting thinner and thinner. Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Vine, etc. They look more and more the same on every platform. So that's not so bad. Of course, for the rest, that remains to be seen.
    07-14-2014 11:41 AM
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