Warren says Windows RT and WP is getting android apps. Perfers WP have malware

[Vitor Salvatore Pierce]

Will be the death of native development of WP.
And you guys might hate Tom, but he is a reliable source. Remember who leaked our dear Cortana? =D

And Eldar also say so...

 

[drachen23]

I think this is a great move. Developers really haven't produced the kind of apps Windows Phone needs to succeed. Huge apps like eBay, Spotify, Pandora and Instagram all SUCK on WP compared to other platforms. There are countless other examples not counting the apps that simply aren't available. I love windows phone for how it works, not for the apps. I like it for the things wp7 did better than its competitors. Start screen, no-lag, great camera, keyboard, windows integration, speed etc.

So basically you want a GS5 with the WP start screen. If MS decides to do this, that's what Windows Phone will become, except worse. The way MS will probably do this is to create a Dalvik/ART-compatible runtime sitting alongside the existing Silverlight 7/8 and WinRT runtimes. It will be a lot like Amazon's Fire Phone where it doesn't use Google's Play Store. The apps would be submitted to the MS store as Android apps and go through the same tests WP apps currently go through. There would be no threat of malware any more than there is now. The new VM also won't use Google apps and services like Maps and Account logins. The WP Android runtime will depend on both updated AOSP (Android open-source releases) and reverse-engineering any bits Google keeps to themselves. It will take a while to get the latest version of Android, especially if the next version of Android is released just after a major WP release... like it was this year. Since the ART runtime will need to share resources with the existing Silverlight and WinRT runtimes making the phone that much slower and use more battery. Android apps are infamous for using a lot of resources in background tasks as well.

This is going to **** off Microsoft developers. A lot. Over the past 4 years or so, Microsoft has had a really bad habit of killing off technologies and APIs that MS has sold developers on and then tossed in the trash bin. WPF, XNA and Silverlight are just three technologies that have been killed (or at least left for dead) over the past few years and two of them should be familiar with WP fans. XNA was deprecated with WP8 and Silverlight is the legacy tech with the new XAML/WinRT runtime introduced in WP 8.1 the preferred one going forward. We finally thought MS was doing something good when it started to harmonize the Windows 8 and WP APIs, but now it may also be adding Android. Why would any sane programmer stand for that? Why not just write your app for Android and be done with it. It's hard to overestimate how upset MS devs have been lately and how excited we were at //Build this year. That would all be undone by this.

There's the matter of compatibility. Writing a VM is hard, but if anyone can do it right, it's the guys at MS. Still, no VM is perfect and there will be compatibility differences between the real Android Dalvik/ART and the MS VM. It could be that the app you desperately want runs fine on the GS5 but crashes every time on WP. Would the vendor spend a lot of time tracking down bugs for a non-standard VM that covers 3% of the market? This is a big issue for Blackberry. Or was. Is Blackberry still around? How about apps that use root access or Google-only services? And now that this avenue is open, why would ANY sane organization spend time or money developing apps just for WP? Why learn a whole new API and maintain a brand new product just to support 3% of the market when you could get away with just modifying your Android app a bit? Android apps won't support cool things about WP like live tiles and I'm not sure how MS would support widgets. This will not only kill interest in WP but also in Windows 8.x app development. WP has more devs than Windows at the moment (sad but true!) and MS was hoping to bring WP devs into Windows as much of not more than the reverse. If WP is subsumed by Android, Windows is now an island again. Will WP devs bother with Windows at all? Won't the API just change again next year again maybe even to Android?

To recap, WP running Android apps has the following benefits:

• We may get the Android version of [name of cool app] on our phones

And the following problems:

• We will get the Android-specific version of [name of cool app], not one that looks like WP or uses WP-specific features
• Which may be buggy due to differences between the MS runtime and the Google runtime
• Which won't support live tiles and WP won't support widgets (key for me personally)
• Which may not arrive at all due to Google services integration or other issues that the dev doesn't want to spend time to fix for only 3% of the market
• Android version (ex. 4.4 Kitkat or 4.3 Jellybean) on WP would lag behind real Android by 6 months at best, years at worst
• Windows Phone 3rd-party development would essentially stop
• Even MS-focused devs would stop making WP (and possibly Windows) apps and concentrate on Android or worse, iOS (which wouldn't run on the new WP at all)
• WP phones start to use more battery and become slower with the additional runtime overhead and Android's notoriously resource-intensive background task overhead
• Consumers get confused because of app availability and compatibility problems compared to standard Android devices and WP devices get a reputation as buggy

The end result of this mess is that WP basically becomes an Android device with a nice-looking but sparse launcher, a smaller store and some compatibility problems. Why anyone would want that instead of a One M8 or GS5 is beyond me.

I love WP. I have owned about 6 Windows Phones from the original Focus to the 1020 and 1520. I have written over half a dozen WP apps myself. I feel the app gap as much or more than most of you as I've had to make the decision in my professional life not to support WP with products due to cost/effort for my company vs WP market share. I want WP to succeed, but this has all the makings of a disaster.

 

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

Will be the death of native development of WP.
And you guys might hate Tom, but he is a reliable source. Remember who leaked our dear Cortana? =D

And Eldar also say so...

Eldar is bullsh*t, just like his tweets.

 

[onysi]

I would welcome this, if microsoft keeps up with quality WP apps. I really hate android/ioS app interface. They look very claustrophobic.

 

[taymur]

This just in.

http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-apparently-wants-windows-phone-to-be-a-better-android-than-android/

 

[rodan01]

To recap, WP running Android apps has the following benefits:

• We may get the Android version of [name of cool app] on our phones

And the following problems:

• We will get the Android-specific version of [name of cool app], not one that looks like WP or uses WP-specific features
• Which may be buggy due to differences between the MS runtime and the Google runtime
• Which won't support live tiles and WP won't support widgets (key for me personally)
• Which may not arrive at all due to Google services integration or other issues that the dev doesn't want to spend time to fix for only 3% of the market
• Android version (ex. 4.4 Kitkat or 4.3 Jellybean) on WP would lag behind real Android by 6 months at best, years at worst
• Windows Phone 3rd-party development would essentially stop
• Even MS-focused devs would stop making WP (and possibly Windows) apps and concentrate on Android or worse, iOS (which wouldn't run on the new WP at all)
• WP phones start to use more battery and become slower with the additional runtime overhead and Android's notoriously resource-intensive background task overhead
• Consumers get confused because of app availability and compatibility problems compared to standard Android devices and WP devices get a reputation as buggy

If Microsoft is betting in Android apps they could add APIs to take advantage of the features of the platform (Live Tiles, Cortana, XBOX, etc.), and custom UI components to match the Metro design. Buggy apps shouldn't be accepted in the store.

There are still incentives for native development:
*If an Android apps don't work well (bugs, performance or lack key features of the platform), It's a big incentive for native development. With a low quality app developers don't make money.
*Android apps will help with the perception of the platform, the market share will increase. If WP grows to 5% of market share, that's 100 million people, an interesting niche to target with a good native app. The bigger the market share, the bigger the incentive for native development.
*Developers still have to work in an app for Windows tablets and desktop, even XBOX. Universal apps is another incentive for native development.
*Microsoft can choose what Android apps will be accepted in the store, define conditions, add incentives to move to native if an app become popular.
*Microsoft has to use resources, (money, developers) to guarantee native apps for the key services in which users spend most of their time. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. So, 80% or more of the effective usage time has to be a high quality native experience.

Android apps are going to help this platform to take off. Without Android app It'd take years or maybe WP could die.

 

[Jazmac]

This just in.

Microsoft apparently wants Windows Phone to be “a better Android than Android” | WMPoweruser

Man, Surur is about as technologically dishonest as they come in this space. Always, and I do mean always assume this cat is lying until its corroborated by at least 3 reliable sources.

 

[rodan01]

Man, Surur is about as technologically dishonest as they come in this space. Always, and I do mean always assume this cat is lying until its corroborated by at least 3 reliable sources.

Surur is quoting Peter Bright from Ars Technica, another good source. Android apps are coming and we shall celebrate.

 

[Jazmac]

I have a question, did anyone listen to that entire video Chuong Nguyen dropped on the main board where June 29th? I couldn't get past all the profane language from that Lockergnome dude and bailed on it but the post was titled Something Major is coming to Windows Phone. If you listened to it, did either one of those guys describe android on WP or say what they thought this major thing was?

 

[Jazmac]

Surur is quoting Peter Bright from Ars Technica, another good source. Android apps are coming and we shall celebrate.

I'll celebrate when there is something to celebrate.

 

[DJCBS]

I have a question, did anyone listen to that entire video Chuong Nguyen dropped on the main board where June 29th? I couldn't get past all the profane language from that Lockergnome dude and bailed on it but the post was titled Something Major is coming to Windows Phone. If you listened to it, did either one of those guys describe android on WP or say what they thought this major thing was?

No. The fat guy in the video, that works for Microsoft, said only that something major was coming to Windows Phone that would p*ss off EVERYBODY. And that his reaction when they told him was "...can you do that?".

So...it may be the Android apps, yeah. It will p*ss off Google because the app gap is gone. It will p*ss off hardcore WP fans because they're Android apps. And it will p*ss off Apple because it's almost as if two major software companies had merged into one in the mobile space.

 

[dalydose]

No. The fat guy in the video, that works for Microsoft, said only that something major was coming to Windows Phone that would p*ss off EVERYBODY. And that his reaction when they told him was "...can you do that?".

So...it may be the Android apps, yeah. It will p*ss off Google because the app gap is gone. It will p*ss off hardcore WP fans because they're Android apps. And it will p*ss off Apple because it's almost as if two major software companies had merged into one in the mobile space.

He didn't say it would "p!ss off", anyone. He used the word "upset" and he wasn't clear if he meant upset as in anger or upset as in abruptly change.

 

[Elitis]

Not iOS but Droid apps. Droids apps are open source and can run on any platform because they are made up in Java and are not limited to Google inc or any man made platform. Droid apps can run freely on any platform known to man. If Windows Phones allow Droids apps that will be awesome.

The app Gap will close overnight. Believe it.

Hopefully Warren is creditable.

...Android apps are NOT open-source, and as of now does not run on all platforms. Java does not run on WP, RT, or iOS. It is desktop platform independent. Please learn a bit about programming before saying things like this.

 

[k0de]

...Android apps are NOT open-source, and as of now does not run on all platforms. Java does not run on WP, RT, or iOS. It is desktop platform independent. Please learn a bit about programming before saying things like this.

Lol.

Just because you don't know how to run Java on other platforms doesn't mean it can't live outside of an Android device.

Sure it can. If you know what you are doing.

Perhaps you should you should go back and learn alot more about programming before saying something like that.

This is not web pages or Desktop applications programming that we're talking about. But systems internals,

You wont find the answers on Wikipedia either. You better start writing your Own Operating System from scratch.

You need a link?

 

[Mike Gibson]

Surur is quoting Peter Bright from Ars Technica, another good source. Android apps are coming and we shall celebrate.

My hope is that MSFT finds a way to create Android apps in Visual Studio. I've installed the entire Android Studio mess twice and deleted it almost immediately because it barely functioned (errors between 32 and 64 bit JDKs, etc.) and had horrible performance. It would be nice to use a real dev environment for Android.

Side note: if this rumor is correct and MSFT is somehow cramming non-Google Android support into WP8 then it shows that the MSFT brass are *still* delusional. I imagine they think that they can drive a wedge between Google and Android developers by only having AOSP support. Their previous delusion was that they thought they could force Windows ISVs to pay them 30% of sales by replacing Win32 with WinRT. How'd that work out for them? It basically knifed all their most loyal ISVs and MSFT paid the price (billions of $$$ in outright losses, two top executives gone, billions of $$$ in lost future revenue, etc.).

 

[Jazmac]

No. The fat guy in the video, that works for Microsoft, said only that something major was coming to Windows Phone that would p*ss off EVERYBODY. And that his reaction when they told him was "...can you do that?".

So...it may be the Android apps, yeah. It will p*ss off Google because the app gap is gone. It will p*ss off hardcore WP fans because they're Android apps. And it will p*ss off Apple because it's almost as if two major software companies had merged into one in the mobile space.

Oh ok. I wonder how long this has been kicked around on other forums to where this might be seriously considered as a way to close the gap where apps are concerned on this platform? If this happens, will MS have android apps in its store the same way Amazon has android apps it theirs? Neither of which support google services. I could see google adding code that blocks features on phones that also run Windows Phone software.

 

[k0de]

My hope is that MSFT finds a way to create Android apps in Visual Studio. I've installed the entire Android Studio mess twice and deleted it almost immediately because it barely functioned (errors between 32 and 64 bit JDKs, etc.) and had horrible performance. It would be nice to use a real dev environment for Android.

Side note: if this rumor is correct and MSFT is somehow cramming non-Google Android support into WP8 then it shows that the MSFT brass are *still* delusional. I imagine they think that they can drive a wedge between Google and Android developers by only having AOSP support. Their previous delusion was that they thought they could force Windows ISVs to pay them 30% of sales by replacing Win32 with WinRT. How'd that work out for them? It basically knifed all their most loyal ISVs and MSFT paid the price (billions of $$$ in outright losses, two top executives gone, billions of $$$ in lost future revenue, etc.).

Same here can't wait for the day that VS come shipped with Android support already installed.


Have you try ARM DS-5 Community Edition IDE.

http://ds.arm.com/ds-5-community-edition/

 

[drachen23]

There are still incentives for native development:
*If an Android apps don't work well (bugs, performance or lack key features of the platform), It's a big incentive for native development. With a low quality app developers don't make money.

It doesn't work this way for Blackberry. You could argue that Blackberry is on its way down, but WP isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either. What incentive does Secret (a random hot app) have to use WP live tiles if MS made an Android library available? If the Android version of Secret works on WP, why would they bother to spend time to make sure live tiles work? Let's say the Android version works on WP. It's not like the people who want to use Secret will refuse to use it without live tiles or that live tiles bring in new users. I have no doubt that project managers will have those features on their radar, but they won't be high-priority compared to regular bug fixes and new features.

*Android apps will help with the perception of the platform, the market share will increase. If WP grows to 5% of market share, that's 100 million people, an interesting niche to target with a good native app. The bigger the market share, the bigger the incentive for native development.

It may help market uptake a bit, but I don't see the logic in "Getting people to do A isn't working. Let's let them do B and maybe it will convince them to do A." Now you've got people doing B because it's easier since their doing B anyway. Why would they do A? If it's a matter of time and money, they won't.

*Developers still have to work in an app for Windows tablets and desktop, even XBOX. Universal apps is another incentive for native development.

One of those platforms is floundering badly (worse than WP at least) and the other hasn't been officially launched (the app store part, anyway). Windows Phone is the closest thing MS has to a mature app store using XAML/WinJS/WinRT at the moment.

*Microsoft can choose what Android apps will be accepted in the store, define conditions, add incentives to move to native if an app become popular.

This is a good point. MS does have some leverage there.

*Microsoft has to use resources, (money, developers) to guarantee native apps for the key services in which users spend most of their time. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. So, 80% or more of the effective usage time has to be a high quality native experience.

They have been doing pretty much just this for the past 3+ years.

Android apps are going to help this platform to take off. Without Android app It'd take years or maybe WP could die.

Maybe it's the high-risk kick the platform needs, maybe it's just delaying the inevitable, maybe it's what finally kills WP. I don't feel confident about it. It feels like a desperation move. I guess we'll see. I just wish MS would clear up their strategy sooner rather than later. All this speculation is driving the community nuts.

 

[carlos12001]

It doesn't work this way for Blackberry. You could argue that Blackberry is on its way down, but WP isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either. What incentive does Secret (a random hot app) have to use WP live tiles if MS made an Android library available? If the Android version of Secret works on WP, why would they bother to spend time to make sure live tiles work? Let's say the Android version works on WP. It's not like the people who want to use Secret will refuse to use it without live tiles or that live tiles bring in new users. I have no doubt that project managers will have those features on their radar, but they won't be high-priority compared to regular bug fixes and new features.



It may help market uptake a bit, but I don't see the logic in "Getting people to do A isn't working. Let's let them do B and maybe it will convince them to do A." Now you've got people doing B because it's easier since their doing B anyway. Why would they do A? If it's a matter of time and money, they won't.



One of those platforms is floundering badly (worse than WP at least) and the other hasn't been officially launched (the app store part, anyway). Windows Phone is the closest thing MS has to a mature app store using XAML/WinJS/WinRT at the moment.



This is a good point. MS does have some leverage there.



They have been doing pretty much just this for the past 3+ years.



Maybe it's the high-risk kick the platform needs, maybe it's just delaying the inevitable, maybe it's what finally kills WP. I don't feel confident about it. It feels like a desperation move. I guess we'll see. I just wish MS would clear up their strategy sooner rather than later. All this speculation is driving the community nuts.

Agreed.

 

[Jazmac]

Same here can't wait for the day that VS come shipped with Android support already installed.


Have you try ARM DS-5 Community Edition IDE.

DS-5 Community Edition | ARM Development Studio 5

So you are cool with the idea of WP running android along side Windows apps? First question I have would those apps be able to share info such as Facebook security info or would one be largely be independent of the other? If you know that is.