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07-20-2014 04:47 PM
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  1. smoledman's Avatar
    Firstly, read my later post.

    Secondly, the Start Screen (the tiles) was designed for touchscreen devices. A lot of complaints about the Start Screen was from users of non touch devices, that just wanted to use a mouse on the desktop. Being forced to use the Start Screen even to launch desktop apps, along with the jarring switch between the UIs, wasn't good.
    No, you're missing the point. Take a look at Windows 8 tile world on Dell Venue 8" tablet. It's a terrible UX, waste of space. Then compare/Contreras with iOS start screen on the iPad Mini. It's like going from a nightmare to a breath of fresh air. How can you defend the tiles?
    07-19-2014 01:50 PM
  2. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    And I'm not sure about that unified OS on all devices. This seems impossible at the moment. RT and WP yes but x64 Windows ? X64 processor wont run ARM OS and ARM processor won't run x64 OS. Same OS would mean all devices having a x64 processor, like Intel Atoms but then we have problem because none of current phones would run this OS and I certainly hope they don't have courage to do something like that.
    There can be different versions of the same OS for different processors, like Windows (Pro) currently has 32-bit and 64-bit versions. I don't think the unification means that the exact same software would be installed on each device. What it probably means is that the apps would work with all versions, similar to how most Windows 8 Modern/Metro Apps run on both RT and x86/x64 and are available from the same app store. At least this is my understanding. The desktop functionality would not likely be available on an ARM device including the phones. It may be possible that phones are made with Intel chips at a later date but the ability to run old desktop apps on a phone would not provide much added benefit for the vast majority of users.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-19-2014 01:51 PM
  3. Sport Driver's Avatar
    There can be different versions of the same OS for different processors, like Windows (Pro) currently has 32-bit and 64-bit versions. I don't think the unification means that the exact same software would be installed on each device. What it probably means is that the apps would work with all versions, similar to how most Windows 8 Modern/Metro Apps run on both RT and x86/x64 and are available from the same app store. At least this is my understanding. The desktop functionality would not likely be available on an ARM device including the phones. It may be possible that phones are made with Intel chips at a later date but the ability to run old desktop apps on a phone would not provide much added benefit for the vast majority of users.

    Unified apps are the thing I do expect, could be the thing all had in mind but said it a bit odd.
    07-19-2014 02:04 PM
  4. EasilyTheBest's Avatar
    There was a report a few months back, I think it was on Seeking Alpha. It said that despite there being way way more Android Phones sold compared to Windows Phones the money made in the apps store were.

    Google - 1.2 billion
    Microsoft - 0.8 billion

    That doesn't even take into account how much Microsoft makes on Android Patents.

    Apple by the way are making just over 6 billion on in app purchases per year.
    People buying Android phones rarely pay for apps.
    Microsoft will never end Windows Phone..
    Al4video likes this.
    07-19-2014 02:05 PM
  5. AndyM72's Avatar
    How can you defend the tiles?
    You come on WPCentral forums and ask how can I (or anyone here for that matter) defend Live Tiles?

    I've always liked Live Tiles, when they really are Live. Being able to glance at info is great, and it's a great "information dense" use of space, rather than the Springboard launcher in iOS, which just gives you the badge to show unread updates. And you can't moan about "wastes of space" and then give iOS on an iPad as an example of a better solution - all that space and to can get no more icons on the screen than you can on an iPhone!

    But I'd be the first person to say that Microsoft screwed up forcing a Touch only UI design onto everyone who wants or needs to use Windows, whether they had Touchscreen hardware or not. That was a decision made on Ballmers watch, and is among the many things that MS is currently trying to unravel and put right.

    P.S. I have a laptop running Win 8.1 (non touch), a Mac running OSX, iPhones, an iPad Mini and a Windows Phone. So I've got experience of all the UI's. I much prefer Modern UI to the iOS UI for the touch devices, but it's a pig on my non touch Laptop.
    Last edited by AndyM72; 07-19-2014 at 02:53 PM.
    colinkiama and Editguy1900 like this.
    07-19-2014 02:20 PM
  6. colinkiama's Avatar
    No, you're missing the point. Take a look at Windows 8 tile world on Dell Venue 8" tablet. It's a terrible UX, waste of space. Then compare/Contreras with iOS start screen on the iPad Mini. It's like going from a nightmare to a breath of fresh air. How can you defend the tiles?
    if you don't like tiles then just boot to the desktop. problem solved
    Editguy1900 likes this.
    07-19-2014 02:27 PM
  7. AndyM72's Avatar
    And I'm not sure about that unified OS on all devices. This seems impossible at the moment. RT and WP yes but x64 Windows ? X64 processor wont run ARM OS and ARM processor won't run x64 OS.
    When you read "Unified OS", that doesn't mean the exact same machine code. Even on Intel processors, you can compile code with options on the compiler that means they will run on one generation of Intel processor, but not earlier generations. So we are not talking about OS code that you can copy off one machine and onto another that is using a different type of processor.

    What is meant by Unified OS is that the exact same code is the used as the source, and compiled for each processor platform, so from an API point of view, all the versions of the OS present the same interface to applications.

    Likewise, apps that run on the OS can be written once, making use of those API calls, and just need either compiling multiple times to create native machine code for each processor type, or compiled once to run in something called the Common Language Runtime, which is "portable" code, somewhat like Java.

    Think about this for a moment. How many Processor types does Android run on? I know of three - ARM, Intel and MIPS. Because of Dalvik and soon Android Runtime, Android apps are portable.

    ​So it's not impossible, it's been possible for a long time.
    07-19-2014 02:51 PM
  8. misfitpierce's Avatar
    I don't understand this... "no sign of growth" crap ppl say sometimes. Windows phone is still showing good increases quarter to quarter if you actually take the time to read up on it instead of just assuming. As for the ditching the Finns thing... Well google laid off tons of Motorola ppl but that doesn't mean Motorola was scrapped. Microsoft is in the midst of major changes due to a new CEO and the finalizing of Nokia acquisition. Its going to take a bit of time to see the bright side to the changes being made but I think what they have been doing is fine and its their strategy and I trust them on it. Microsoft is a pretty savvy company and seeing as they just bought a phone company and windows phone is showing profits even if slowly, its highly unlikely to be scrapped. Its not like its sinking like blackberry so... Just stick with windows phone and you will see.
    07-19-2014 03:01 PM
  9. smoledman's Avatar
    I don't understand this... "no sign of growth" crap ppl say sometimes. Windows phone is still showing good increases quarter to quarter if you actually take the time to read up on it instead of just assuming. As for the ditching the Finns thing... Well google laid off tons of Motorola ppl but that doesn't mean Motorola was scrapped. Microsoft is in the midst of major changes due to a new CEO and the finalizing of Nokia acquisition. Its going to take a bit of time to see the bright side to the changes being made but I think what they have been doing is fine and its their strategy and I trust them on it. Microsoft is a pretty savvy company and seeing as they just bought a phone company and windows phone is showing profits even if slowly, its highly unlikely to be scrapped. Its not like its sinking like blackberry so... Just stick with windows phone and you will see.
    Growth in poor countries is not something I'd hang my flag on. Especially since it's on the back of the 52X series which makes no profits. The US, China and Japan are the markets to care about and WP is non-existent there. If I were MS CEO I'd ask myself why instead of congratulating myself that "but at least we're beating Apple in Brazil".
    07-19-2014 03:09 PM
  10. Pacus1x's Avatar
    Growth in poor countries is not something I'd hang my flag on".
    Underestimate those markets "poor" markets that's the last thing you want, ask Google how they build their services empire thanks to dead cheap Android phones... selling devices is only a tool to offer those ultra valuable services... but agreed that MS must work hard in China, Japan and the US, the first two countries with virtually zero WP market share.
    Editguy1900 likes this.
    07-19-2014 03:21 PM
  11. falconrap's Avatar
    Who said MS was ditching the Finns? Last I checked most of the devices work force was in the manufacturing arm of the company. A large chunk of that was for Asha and S40, plus you have the Nokia X folks. My guess is that 90% of the layoffs are from the manufacturing facilities located outside of Finland. The rest are probably Engineers for those areas that are redundant plus marketing and sales folks. I would venture to say that most of the Lumia engineers and manufacturing teams aren't being touched. I would also very some staff will transfer into this group where it makes sense.

    I think people here fail to understand the constituent parts of Nokia.
    07-19-2014 03:33 PM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    Underestimate those markets "poor" markets that's the last thing you want, ask Google how they build their services empire thanks to dead cheap Android phones...
    Android is on plenty of high end devices too. When Samsung releases a new flagship, it often nearly matches or even outsells the iPhone for a short time. Android's numbers are so staggering that nobody comes close in any range.

    But you are technically correct that low end devices help inflate Android's numbers.
    07-19-2014 03:47 PM
  13. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    What do you guys think, after all its Microsoft we're talking about. They're not against scrapping an idea or current project -despite investing untold amounts of money - as they were unable to market said product initially.

    What does everyone else think?
    I think that since Microsoft is saying that they are focusing on WP and development of universal apps that speculation that Microsoft will ditch WP is unfounded.
    a5cent likes this.
    07-19-2014 03:54 PM
  14. wpfan86's Avatar
    No, you're missing the point. Take a look at Windows 8 tile world on Dell Venue 8" tablet. It's a terrible UX, waste of space. Then compare/Contreras with iOS start screen on the iPad Mini. It's like going from a nightmare to a breath of fresh air. How can you defend the tiles?
    Perhaps he can defend then because he has a different opinion than you. Did you consider the possibility that not everyone shares your high and mighty, know better than all opinion?

    I own a DV8P and iI happen to love the tile interface. It is insanely simple and easy to organize. Only the simplest of minds would find it complicated. The desktop interface on an 8" tablet however is nearly useless. If by "breath of fresh air" iOS, you mean "cartoonish looking toy-like interface" then yes, I agree.

    See how that different opinions thing works?
    BobLobIaw and Editguy1900 like this.
    07-19-2014 03:56 PM
  15. smoledman's Avatar
    Perhaps he can defend then because he has a different opinion than you. Did you consider the possibility that not everyone shares your high and mighty, know better than all opinion?

    I own a DV8P and iI happen to love the tile interface. It is insanely simple and easy to organize. Only the simplest of minds would find it complicated. The desktop interface on an 8" tablet however is nearly useless. If by "breath of fresh air" iOS, you mean "cartoonish looking toy-like interface" then yes, I agree.

    See how that different opinions thing works?
    I'm not saying that iOS is the perfect interface for doing everything. I still find I do most of my computing on my desktop PC in Windows 8.1 because I do a lot of typing and virtual keyboards just suck on any platform for a variety of reasons. However for pure consumption behavior - web browsing, video streaming, checking the weather - Android or iOS just is better.
    07-19-2014 04:09 PM
  16. Jas00555's Avatar
    I'm not saying that iOS is the perfect interface for doing everything. I still find I do most of my computing on my desktop PC in Windows 8.1 because I do a lot of typing and virtual keyboards just suck on any platform for a variety of reasons. However for pure consumption behavior - web browsing, video streaming, checking the weather - Android or iOS just is better.
    How can browsing the web be better on iOS or Android compared to Windows? It's the same website. Same thing with video. Does it matter what OS you're using to stream Netflix? Same with weather. Nothing in your post makes any sense at all.
    BobLobIaw and simon 4 like this.
    07-19-2014 04:14 PM
  17. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I'm not saying that iOS is the perfect interface for doing everything. I still find I do most of my computing on my desktop PC in Windows 8.1 because I do a lot of typing and virtual keyboards just suck on any platform for a variety of reasons. However for pure consumption behavior - web browsing, video streaming, checking the weather - Android or iOS just is better.
    How?
    BobLobIaw and Blu3V3nom07 like this.
    07-19-2014 04:16 PM
  18. AwesomeLewis24's Avatar
    I don't see any reason for Microsoft to ditch WP... WP has made quite good progress in passing BlackBerry and is gaining on Android and iOS. Ditching it now would be a very dumb decision and could lead WP users out of Microsoft products full stop (Not exactly too realistic, but it could happen. I'm trying to get the point across that microsoft would lose a lot of money and fans, and I mean a lot.
    07-19-2014 04:18 PM
  19. AwesomeLewis24's Avatar
    web browsing, Android or iOS just is better.
    I'd have to disagree with you there. I have an Android phone and an Android tablet, running both the default android browser and Google Chrome for Android. I experience pages load much faster and less buggy on Windows Phone's Internet Explorer than the android browser and Chrome on both devices..
    07-19-2014 04:20 PM
  20. Editguy1900's Avatar
    However for pure consumption behavior - web browsing, video streaming, checking the weather - Android or iOS just is better.
    In YOUR opinion. I hate iOS and Android interface. That doesn't make them bad, that's just how I feel about them. But I'm aware (and don't mind) that there are many people that do like them, and they don't need to defend that to me and no one needs to defend their belief that Metro is a good UI. Quit stating your opinion as a fact shared by everyone, because it's not a fact and it's not shared universally.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    07-19-2014 04:26 PM
  21. colinkiama's Avatar
    I'm not saying that iOS is the perfect interface for doing everything. I still find I do most of my computing on my desktop PC in Windows 8.1 because I do a lot of typing and virtual keyboards just suck on any platform for a variety of reasons. However for pure consumption behavior - web browsing, video streaming, checking the weather - Android or iOS just is better.
    You fool! Do you realize what you have just said! Windows PCs can do anything and I mean anything, they make android and ios seem like toys. Windows can support every single video codec imaginable. Windows supports flash, windows can play full console games. The list goes on. Never compare a mobile OS to a full PC OS
    07-19-2014 04:33 PM
  22. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    You don't buy the development division of Nokia just to canx WP. That makes no sense. What does if MSFT refocusing their direction which takes radical changes. WP will be the focus as the PC realm is already locked down by MSFT. Now they need to merge them better. With Cortana coming to Windows, Bing becoming more enterprise centric with the assistance of Cortana, and more companies putting down their ipads for surface tabs and other Windows products, MSFT at least is showing an intent to establish a formidable multi platform foundation
    07-19-2014 04:43 PM
  23. aximtreo's Avatar
    What a crappy few days regarding the news about Microsoft 'Betraying the Finnish' by shafting pretty much the entire Nokia team , staff cuts eating into the xbox division and the cancellation of the planned Xbox tv shows that were lined up.
    I have been a user of Windows phone for just under a year now and have thoroughly enjoyed the experience, especially with 8.1 which grew on me over time. However at the risk of sounding like a nay-sayer it's pretty clear that Windows Phone will be one of the next things to go.
    With no sign of Growth , still mediocre versions of apps ( The apparent lack of apps story is something i just don't agree with) and always playing catch up with Android , ios and even Blackberry to an extent is just bad form . This is on a hardware and software front.

    What do you guys think, after all its Microsoft we're talking about. They're not against scrapping an idea or current project -despite investing untold amounts of money - as they were unable to market said product initially.

    What does everyone else think?
    Playing on your name if you don't mind... NEVERMore
    07-19-2014 04:47 PM
  24. Pacus1x's Avatar
    If someone finds Android or iOS better for regular consumer use than W8.1 maybe is just a matter of taste and convenience and i respect that, but the general consensus around here and other geek sites, gives W8.1 a clear advantage over the other mobile OS.
    colinkiama likes this.
    07-19-2014 04:48 PM
  25. colinkiama's Avatar
    What a crappy few days regarding the news about Microsoft 'Betraying the Finnish' by shafting pretty much the entire Nokia team , staff cuts eating into the xbox division and the cancellation of the planned Xbox tv shows that were lined up.
    I have been a user of Windows phone for just under a year now and have thoroughly enjoyed the experience, especially with 8.1 which grew on me over time. However at the risk of sounding like a nay-sayer it's pretty clear that Windows Phone will be one of the next things to go.
    With no sign of Growth , still mediocre versions of apps ( The apparent lack of apps story is something i just don't agree with) and always playing catch up with Android , ios and even Blackberry to an extent is just bad form . This is on a hardware and software front.

    What do you guys think, after all its Microsoft we're talking about. They're not against scrapping an idea or current project -despite investing untold amounts of money - as they were unable to market said product initially.

    What does everyone else think?
    There is something different about this. If Microsoft knew this was a bad idea they would have done it already like with kin and wp7 but this time it's different. Microsoft is actually listening to everyone outside of the us a better bing with cortana, Microsoft actually added the best micro ad card support ever in a smartphone. They have done so much but all we so is complain about there being mediocre apps. 8.1 released only a few months ago. Also Microsoft did scrap s40, asha and the x phones but they said they will focus on wp, can't you see, Microsoft are finally serious.


    Have faith in WP!
    Last edited by colinkiama; 07-19-2014 at 05:46 PM.
    07-19-2014 05:10 PM
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