08-04-2014 11:35 AM
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  1. smoledman's Avatar
    However MS doesn't exist in a vacuum. Look at what Apple & Google are doing with OS unification with much prettier looking UIs on TOP of massive ecosystems that people are actually using. Remember there are 1.2 billion Android devices & 800 million iOS devices. That's 2 billion non-Windows devices out there consuming services.
    jedizenmaster likes this.
    07-26-2014 02:06 PM
  2. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Windows has massive penetration in the corporate world and laptop/desktop os. True windows phone is a small percent but that is the point of this. The unification will assist its growth app wise.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    07-26-2014 04:01 PM
  3. ohgood's Avatar
    Windows has massive penetration in the corporate world and laptop/desktop os. True windows phone is a small percent but that is the point of this. The unification will assist its growth app wise.
    think of some applications you would like to work with on the phone, laptop and PC ... are there many ?
    07-26-2014 06:35 PM
  4. DJCBS's Avatar
    But guess who has the largest market share of 90% in the computer os market,hint-apple has the lowest ,google chrome os is a joke unless someone wants to do web browsing or light office work,windows is the only os with true compatibility with everything including games,productivity,media,ability to be installed on existing hardware so no special hardware required
    Googles hype is dying down ,apple is laid back and "invents" features which android and even windows phone and BB10 users have enjoyed for a couple of years
    Windows phone and windows desktops and tablets are more value for money and even the cheap ones are powerful and feel premium and no lag or big bills to pay
    That desperate cling to the still dominating position on the PC market may end up being exactly what ruins Microsoft's chances and it's what's been dragging it down. Yes, they dominate the PC market. Excellent. Now focus on what you don't dominate..

    Yes, Microsoft basically monopolizes the PC market. The problem is, the PC market has been shrinking for years. On the other hand, the mobile market has been growing and there, Microsoft command less than 5%. So what you may end up in the near future is Microsoft ruling a market yes...but a small market.
    If you think that someone with an iPhone and an iPad will exchange those for a Surface and a Windows Phone just because they have a Windows PC; or that someone with an Android phone and tablet will exchange it for a Surface and a Windows Phone just because they have a Windows PC...well, you're sorely mistaken.
    When the time comes for people to chose which thing they'll sacrifice in favour of a unified OS...their choice of phones and tablets will dictate the outcome, not their choice of PC. That one will be replaced for a Mac or a Chromebook (ok, let's take a moment to laugh here...no one in their right mind will buy a Chromebook lol).

    That's why Microsoft has to really nail the unification of Windows AND take it one step further. Unifying Windows into one single platform is not enough. For the private consumer, they need to have compelling hardware that attracts them to buy a Windows Phone and a Surface (or some other Windows tablet). For that Microsoft needs to bring along OEMs. They will NOT be able to do it themselves. Microsoft isn't Apple. And they shouldn't even try to be Apple. Here I think Nadella has the right direction. Microsoft is a software company. That's what they do best, that's what they've always done better. Software. Microsoft needs to nail down the software. Make it as amazing as Windows was when it came out over 20 years ago. Then get OEMs to produce compelling hardware.
    They do that and OEM will be happy because they'll be able to start offering people bundles. "Want this Windows PC? You know you can use it seamlessly with this Phone that also runs Windows? Get our bundle today and have one experience everywhere!" etc etc.

    They just have to nail down the unification. Because Apple and Google are doing the same. And whilst a Chromebook is pathetic...a PC running Android won't be. A PC running Android will threaten Windows more than Mac's OS X and friends.
    Karthik Naik and ohgood like this.
    07-26-2014 07:42 PM
  5. blackguard's Avatar
    think of some applications you would like to work with on the phone, laptop and PC ... are there many ?
    Admittedly, zero. I get along just fine using the mobile and desktop browser versions for emailing and web browser because all I need them to do is sync bookmarks and history and preferences. Can't think of anything off the top of my head.
    07-26-2014 07:44 PM
  6. Akhilesh Bhambhani's Avatar
    a PC running Android won't be. A PC running Android will threaten Windows more than Mac's OS X and friends.
    I personally think that would be a joke just like the chromebook...If just say microsoft somehow screws up threshhold (Which it wont).
    It will take at least a decade for those Android running PC to be a real threat, and provided Ms continues to screw up for years. Windows has dominated PC market for years..Dont think Android can easily shake them up. I agree Pc sales have dropeed..but NO matter what you will have a pc either at your home OR at your office. And seamless sync and interaction between your devices will be a great deal. Leave something on a browser here end it there..enable notifications about other devices. Pretty sure Microsoft has thought it through and they can only know, what level of unification is expected.
    07-26-2014 09:52 PM
  7. zocster's Avatar
    I am getting closer in getting that 1520, price has just dropped another $100 this week! I might bite the bullet before auction ends.

    I am not a huge gamer, I need hangouts really, to talk to other team members, and slack, again, a chat app, to talk to other team members.

    I also need my credit card processing app, if all these can come to windows phone, personally I am happy to move.

    Sent from pin:2AD743B7 via Tapatalk Pro
    07-26-2014 09:59 PM
  8. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    That desperate cling to the still dominating position on the PC market may end up being exactly what ruins Microsoft's chances and it's what's been dragging it down. Yes, they dominate the PC market. Excellent. Now focus on what you don't dominate..

    Yes, Microsoft basically monopolizes the PC market. The problem is, the PC market has been shrinking for years. On the other hand, the mobile market has been growing and there, Microsoft command less than 5%. So what you may end up in the near future is Microsoft ruling a market yes...but a small market.
    If you think that someone with an iPhone and an iPad will exchange those for a Surface and a Windows Phone just because they have a Windows PC; or that someone with an Android phone and tablet will exchange it for a Surface and a Windows Phone just because they have a Windows PC...well, you're sorely mistaken.
    When the time comes for people to chose which thing they'll sacrifice in favour of a unified OS...their choice of phones and tablets will dictate the outcome, not their choice of PC. That one will be replaced for a Mac or a Chromebook (ok, let's take a moment to laugh here...no one in their right mind will buy a Chromebook lol).

    That's why Microsoft has to really nail the unification of Windows AND take it one step further. Unifying Windows into one single platform is not enough. For the private consumer, they need to have compelling hardware that attracts them to buy a Windows Phone and a Surface (or some other Windows tablet). For that Microsoft needs to bring along OEMs. They will NOT be able to do it themselves. Microsoft isn't Apple. And they shouldn't even try to be Apple. Here I think Nadella has the right direction. Microsoft is a software company. That's what they do best, that's what they've always done better. Software. Microsoft needs to nail down the software. Make it as amazing as Windows was when it came out over 20 years ago. Then get OEMs to produce compelling hardware.
    They do that and OEM will be happy because they'll be able to start offering people bundles. "Want this Windows PC? You know you can use it seamlessly with this Phone that also runs Windows? Get our bundle today and have one experience everywhere!" etc etc.

    They just have to nail down the unification. Because Apple and Google are doing the same. And whilst a Chromebook is pathetic...a PC running Android won't be. A PC running Android will threaten Windows more than Mac's OS X and friends.
    thats true,though i dont think android pcs will threaten windows unless they add more desktop apps and games etc something which could take a lot of time and would be as bad as chrome os
    07-27-2014 12:06 AM
  9. ohgood's Avatar
    Admittedly, zero. I get along just fine using the mobile and desktop browser versions for emailing and web browser because all I need them to do is sync bookmarks and history and preferences. Can't think of anything off the top of my head.
    this is why I believe one-os-for-all is an solution looking for a problem. people already sync bookmarks, tabs, history , passwords, across devices without needing a change in the OS's to do so.

    I just don't think its a selling point to consumers.
    for developers, sure, they can write an application once..... but there don't appear to be that many applications that will be used on phone, tablet and PC, that aren't already available now. ever note, keep, chrome, office suites are good examples.
    07-27-2014 02:05 AM
  10. JamesPTao's Avatar
    this is why I believe one-os-for-all is an solution looking for a problem. people already sync bookmarks, tabs, history , passwords, across devices without needing a change in the OS's to do so.

    I just don't think its a selling point to consumers.
    for developers, sure, they can write an application once..... but there don't appear to be that many applications that will be used on phone, tablet and PC, that aren't already available now. ever note, keep, chrome, office suites are good examples.
    For consumers it just fits in to the marketing. "One os to rule them all", lol just playing. You're missing the point. You are right now consumers wont care. What they will care about is more apps and better apps. Being able to find every app they know and want whether it is on WP, windows tablet, or windows desktop os. The reason ipads have so many apps while the surface is struggling to even catch up to WP in app count is because apple phones and tablets use the same os. If the app exists on one it can be found on the other. That type of momentum is what windows needs to quickly grow in both. The unification just makes that easier and it easier for one os to build off of progress on another. Of course there are other benefits but this is the one the majority of users will end up appreciating.
    Cleavitt76 likes this.
    07-27-2014 03:01 AM
  11. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    goooood, yes, keep em coming.

    Netflix, evernote do that now...
    These are good examples of apps that would be useful on multiple devices, but these currently are not universal apps. They are separate apps that had to be re-developed for each target platform and device type. The major advantage of universal apps is that they can be developed once for all MS platforms. The time saved can be used to further enhance the app with new features which also target all MS platforms at once. The universal apps concept benefits both developers and the MS users that utilize their apps. The developers reduce their development efforts by avoiding duplication of work while at the same time reaching more customers. Users get to have a consistent and synchronized experience regardless of the device they are using.

    how are people currently hamstrung ?
    do you mean windows phone, iPhone, android , or all mobile operating systems?
    think of some applications you would like to work with on the phone, laptop and PC ... are there many ?
    You seem to be focused on a list of specific apps that would be used consistently across multiple devices. There are tons of examples, including some that you already mentioned yourself. You mentioned earlier that you use "video conferencing" as a tablet/phone task and "playing videos" as a PC task. I'm sure you can see that most people would consider those things equally useful on other devices though. For example, I use Skype on my desktop/Surface Pro far more than my phone, but I like that my contacts/settings are still synced to my phone since I do use it occasionally for Skype and it's great that I can use the same video conferencing solution on all my devices (even Xbox One). Same with OneNote, the whole Office suite really, a program called "My Media Center" that can interface with my HTPC, Reading List, Weave, and probably others.

    However, I think what you are missing is that it's not *just* about specific apps that are frequently used on multiple devices. It is about the overall experience even for somewhat unusual situations. Greater overlap of functionality and seamless integration give the user more options in terms of how they go about accomplishing things with their devices.

    Here is an obscure example that came up today for me. I order a lot of things online and I use an app called Package Tracker to keep up with the deliveries. The app runs on both WP and Windows 8/RT. I enter the tracking numbers into the app on whichever device I happen to be using and it syncs to all my other devices (including my Windows 8 + Media Center HTPC). I get notifications when something is delivered. Today I was on my desktop PC checking my work webmail. A coworker asked me for the tracking number of something I ordered for a project we are working on. Even though I originally entered the tracking number into the app on my phone, I was able to open the app on my PC, copy the tracking number, and paste it into my reply. It was as simple as it gets. If this had been a situation where the phone/tablet software is separate from desktop software it would have been an annoying experience. I would have had to go get my phone from the other room, open the app, copy the tracking number, paste it into an email, and send it to myself. Then I would have to go back to my PC, open my email to myself, copy the tracking number, and paste it into the reply to my coworker. Alternatively, I could have switched devices to my phone, opened the work webmail on my phone, found the coworker's email, and replied from there with the tracking number, but it takes a few steps to log in to my companies webmail so that probably would have taken longer. I also had a lot of typing to do in my reply and I wouldn't have wanted to do that on a phone keyboard. Either way, that is a lame experience compared to having direct access from the device I'm currently using via a universal app.

    That specific example is not something I would consider a normal workflow, but similar situations arise far more often than you seem to think they do. Without universal apps, this integration is only possible if developers release their apps on multiple platforms. This is a lot of work for them and in many cases that means that some platforms won't have those apps and users will miss out on those integration benefits.
    Onager1286 likes this.
    07-27-2014 02:46 PM
  12. ohgood's Avatar
    in focused on which ones might be used on all devices, because of my typical usage.

    I can't see anyone having a fun time editing an office document on their phone, or watching a normal days worth of stock indexes on a 10" screen also.

    is more about "is it comfortable to do" on a laptop/phone/tablet screen size, than " is it remotely possible from a software building standpoint ".


    htpc is awesome in my living room, but would be much less awesome sitting in a bus station with only 4" of screen real estate.
    07-27-2014 03:58 PM
  13. smoledman's Avatar
    People made a big deal about EBITA being down year-on-year $4.9 billion to $4.6 billion. However if you exclude the cost of Nokia acquisition, EBITA was up $200 million year-on-year. So they will continue to pay the price in the next few quarter for Ballmer's last bonehead move. Everything else is flourishing.
    07-27-2014 04:02 PM
  14. Svoboda's Avatar
    However MS doesn't exist in a vacuum. Look at what Apple & Google are doing with OS unification with much prettier looking UIs on TOP of massive ecosystems that people are actually using. Remember there are 1.2 billion Android devices & 800 million iOS devices. That's 2 billion non-Windows devices out there consuming services.
    User preference. I think iOS looks very dated and I do not enjoy the Android UI at all.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    07-28-2014 01:32 PM
  15. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    in focused on which ones might be used on all devices, because of my typical usage.

    I can't see anyone having a fun time editing an office document on their phone, or watching a normal days worth of stock indexes on a 10" screen also.

    is more about "is it comfortable to do" on a laptop/phone/tablet screen size, than " is it remotely possible from a software building standpoint ".


    htpc is awesome in my living room, but would be much less awesome sitting in a bus station with only 4" of screen real estate.
    It's almost like you are trying to not understand a simple concept. The scenarios you are providing are actually great examples, but you seem to be going out of your way to make them sound implausible.

    "...editing an office document on their phone..."

    What about a quick spelling correction while away from home/office so the document can be submitted before a deadline? How about a minor edit on a contract that needs to be processed before you can get back to your desk? How about a student reviewing and finalizing their assignment while on break at their part time job? Nobody is saying that a complex document should be created from scratch on a smart phone, but it would be nice to have tools that can handle the situations above without trashing the document's formatting in the process.

    "...watching a normal days worth of stock indexes on a 10" screen..."

    A 10" screen would be plenty to keep an eye on those stocks while out for lunch. A phone screen would work well too. I use my smart phone to keep track of stocks all the time. In a pinch, I have even bought and sold stocks from my phone. Even a full time day trader would appreciate being able to keep up with things while away from their multi-monitor desktops.

    "htpc is awesome in my living room, but would be much less awesome sitting in a bus station with only 4" of screen real estate."

    HTPC I would agree with, but media in general is commonly used across all devices. I know plenty of people that watch TV, movies, etc on their mobile devices. A tablet screen a couple feet in front of your face is about the same relative size as a 40" TV that is 8' away from your sofa.

    Also, if you do some research on Microsoft's universal app concept you will find that the UI part of the apps can be customized as needed per device/screen type. The vast majority of programs have very little developer written UI code and a lot of "business logic" and other core code. I would say less than 10% is custom written UI code in the vast majority of programs. In cases where the UI needs to be different, Universal apps can share all the non-UI code and only the UI code would differ. Therefore, a media app could be a universal app with a HTPC UI optimized for TV/remote, a phone/tablet UI for touch, and a PC UI for desktop/laptop with keyboard/mouse. Settings, media library, and meta data would be synced across all devices and functionality would be consistent. 90%+ of the code could be written, updated, and maintained once by the developer.
    BobLobIaw and diablozoll like this.
    07-28-2014 01:39 PM
  16. ohgood's Avatar
    yes, that falls under "possible to do" but not "comfortable".

    I've edited drafts, regrouped power points, compiled last minute editions (with a Bluetooth keyboard, thankfully), even edited videos on a phone, but it's not... comfortable.
    07-28-2014 02:39 PM
  17. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Not as comfortable as another device, yet you had a need to do it on the device you were using. I guess you understand the value of having software that runs on multiple device types after all.
    07-28-2014 09:55 PM
  18. ohgood's Avatar
    Not as comfortable as another device, yet you had a need to do it on the device you were using. I guess you understand the value of having software that runs on multiple device types after all.
    correct.

    it worked fine in the past. I still don't see "look you can do work on your phone, tablet and PC with the same ui!" as being good marketing.
    07-29-2014 03:50 AM
  19. JamesPTao's Avatar
    correct.

    it worked fine in the past. I still don't see "look you can do work on your phone, tablet and PC with the same ui!" as being good marketing.
    I agree it shouldn't be the main marketing. It is a great feature and people need to be aware of it because it is useful but the main advertising needs to have something that grips people emotionally...gets them excited. Great advertising uses emotion. Not discounting what the phone can do, its important but WP needs to focus on things that get the consumer excited.
    08-02-2014 10:25 AM
  20. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    correct.

    it worked fine in the past. I still don't see "look you can do work on your phone, tablet and PC with the same ui!" as being good marketing.
    1) As I already mentioned, the UI doesn't have to be the same for each device type. Universal apps can share as much or as little code/design as the developer wants.

    2) Universal apps are not being marketed at consumers or end users. It's being marketed to developers. Consumers will experience the benefits, but most won't really know about universal apps unless they visit enthusiast sites like this one.
    Mach_E likes this.
    08-04-2014 11:35 AM
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