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08-18-2014 11:30 AM
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  1. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Except WP are in general of quality and have resale value, unlike Hyundai.
    Resale value is something I wouldn't consider, though. If you consider the history Nokia has with their phones, the 720 holding its price well was an aberration.
    08-02-2014 05:00 PM
  2. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Except WP are in general of quality and have resale value, unlike Hyundai.
    I just purchased a 920 in mint shape for less than $100. That's 20% of its original price. I wouldn't exactly call that investment material. Look in Swappa.com or eBay and you'll see what I mean.
    trwrt and Dazzi like this.
    08-02-2014 06:10 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The Hyundai example falls apart due to the subsidy model for smartphones in the US. If I'm going to pay $1500 for a smartphone plan over 24 months, why not splurge $199for an super deluxe iPhone instead of $49 for some budget Android/WP? That's the calculation most US consumers are making and that's why Apple has a unique market share here. Take away the subsidy model and it's totally different if you have to pay $650 to $850 for an iPhone up front. However the same dynamic applies to Samsung Galaxy S and Note devices which would be too expensive without the subsidies.
    I didn't consider the subsidy aspect in my statement. I was just illustrating how newcomers, and WP is a Johnny-come-lately to this shindig, have to pay their dues to get their foot in the door. Hyundai had to break the 1-2 punch of the Camry and Accord and they have. It took decades, but they did.

    The L920 was $99 on AT&T. That's a bargain no matter how you slice it but ever since the un-carrier made subsidies optional, the purchase price becomes a sticking point. Pay more monthly for a subsidized phone that you may or may not like for the next 2 years or buy a 520 straight up for $59 and pocket the savings. Think of the Hyundai example for a minute. You're shopping for a new phone and you know what you're getting with an iPhone or Galaxy but you're not sure you want to pay full price and have lower monthlies or pay the subsidized rate. Option B is a Windows Phone that you've never heard of but it's very inexpensive. You give it a go and you're wowed by the experience. A year later you might go for a 1020 or 1520.

    Based on the example I just wrote, you can conclude that the Lumia Excel did its job. Now MS needs to make sure they don't f**k up and end up like Yugo. BTW, the Yugo GV and Hyundai Excel debuted in the US at the same time in 1986.
    Laura Knotek and phirefly like this.
    08-02-2014 06:27 PM
  4. kencaz's Avatar
    microsoft actually is playing nice at starting (providing onedrive and office to other platform)
    Bad move by Nadella, Since I don't blame MS for it he is just a bad leader. If they give all of there services to everyone what is the driving force for anyone to get a Nokia or Surface device. I really don't see the other's playing nice unless forced too.
    08-02-2014 07:06 PM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    microsoft actually is playing nice at starting (providing onedrive and office to other platform)
    Do you really think they're doing it to be nice? They're doing it because they feel that it will provide more profit than not doing it would.
    fatclue_98 and giulianoreali like this.
    08-02-2014 08:03 PM
  6. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I just purchased a 920 in mint shape for less than $100. That's 20% of its original price. I wouldn't exactly call that investment material. Look in Swappa.com or eBay and you'll see what I mean.
    Sorry just a Hyundai poke. I get your example just horrid quality cars.
    08-02-2014 10:25 PM
  7. trivor's Avatar
    microsoft actually is playing nice at starting (providing onedrive and office to other platform)
    Microsoft is not putting applications like Outlook, OneDrive, Office, OneNote, Skype on the other platforms to be nice, they are doing it because it is good business. MS wants individuals and corporations to use their services (MS makes 99% of their money off services) so they have to put their apps that link to their services on the other platforms to stay relevant. Desktop is slowing moving towards a lower plateau where Windows will no longer be the dominant platform in the world. In fact, in terms of devices (desktop, laptop, tablets, phones) worldwide Microsoft only has 14% total devices even while it still has 90% of the desktops. There is still plenty of growth left in mobile devices. The need for desktops is limited and the CPU power required to power a desktop continues to go down so people are keeping their desktops longer (in fact, when Windows XP hit end of life there were still 400 Million people running XP despite the security risks). Apple doesn't put their applications (Facetime, iMessage, etc) on anybodies' platform and Google is not inclined to help out Microsoft by putting their apps on Windows Phone.
    dgr_874 likes this.
    08-03-2014 02:39 PM
  8. tanzim31's Avatar
    ha ha
    08-03-2014 08:10 PM
  9. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I know it's a good thing... They wish MS would kill WP... but not going to happen... I see WP surpassing both of them at the rate they are going. iOS is stagnant and Google is moving forward but slower then MS. It also looks like 'L' is strikingly similar color layout as WP... Cortana is already better then Siri and will surpass Google now as well...
    It's nice to see you being optimistic about Windows Phone's growth and having used Windows Phone for quite some months, I too do not not want it to perish.

    However Windows Phone isn't having very substantial growth. Android and iOS growth has slowed down over the years because majority of smartphone owners own either an Android or iPhone, so obviously it slows down.

    Windows Phone's growth fluctuates every now and then sometimes falling and sometimes rising, my opinion(and most experts agree) is that Windows Phone might establish itself as a sold third place OS but will likely never surpass Android or iOS.

    As far as Cortana vs Siri and Google Now goes, Cortana absolutely crushes both of them in accuracy and features, most times.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-08-2014 07:24 AM
  10. kencaz's Avatar
    It's nice to see you being optimistic about Windows Phone's growth and having used Windows Phone for quite some months, I too do not not want it to perish.

    However Windows Phone isn't having very substantial growth. Android and iOS growth has slowed down over the years because majority of smartphone owners own either an Android or iPhone, so obviously it slows down.

    Windows Phone's growth fluctuates every now and then sometimes falling and sometimes rising, my opinion(and most experts agree) is that Windows Phone might establish itself as a sold third place OS but will likely never surpass Android or iOS.

    As far as Cortana vs Siri and Google Now goes, Cortana absolutely crushes both of them in accuracy and features, most times.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Your right, (at the moment). Considering how fast WP has grown compared to Android and iOS being they are still the newcomer I can see growth accelerating as the OS becomes more polished and Cortana get's more interactive. iOS is to proprietary and Android is becoming bloated, buggy, and since google is the leader in Android experience given the fact that there is not privacy in google, people will migrate towards something new and different. Plus MS now offers WP Free for all devices below 8" so I can see more manufactures jumping on that bandwagon too...

    Let's hope MS keeps up the development and keeps making the Lumia Line.
    08-08-2014 02:40 PM
  11. salmanahmad's Avatar
    Your right, (at the moment). Considering how fast WP has grown compared to Android and iOS being they are still the newcomer I can see growth accelerating as the OS becomes more polished and Cortana get's more interactive. iOS is to proprietary and Android is becoming bloated, buggy, and since google is the leader in Android experience given the fact that there is not privacy in google, people will migrate towards something new and different. Plus MS now offers WP Free for all devices below 8" so I can see more manufactures jumping on that bandwagon too...

    Let's hope MS keeps up the development and keeps making the Lumia Line.
    First of all a major reason why people wouldn't switch to Android was because of the massive amount of misinformation and myths that we're around, and the situation is the same with Windows Phone.

    You go on to mention that Android is becoming bloated and buggy, it's quite the opposite. Google allows you to disable carrier bloatware and with further iterations of Android the number of bugs is reducing, being an Android user at the moment I have barely had any apps crash during my time of use.

    You are a person on the WPCentral forums and you seem to be quite knowledge, yet you believe in myths about Android so just imagine the amount of myths a regular person would believe? These myths are the reason why people hesitate trying Android and Windows Phone.

    Moving on, Android has never been the best at privacy but over the years they have improved. I've also noticed that a lot of the people around me, including myself, have never really cared if we are being spied on by the intelligence agencies, of course none of us are terrorists, so why worry? So privacy isn't a reason why people would make the switch.

    In addition to this the Google Play Store does offer some pretty unique encrypted services for secure messages and phone calls, so for those privacy freaks Android does have the solution. And for people who worry too much, there is a Custom ROM on Android called Cyanogenmod allowing for even greater encryption services.

    Moving on, again.

    A lesson my teacher in advertising class taught me, and you might disagree, but she said that either an ad had to be really really good or really really bad for people to remember it, there is no in-between. I partly agree with her and I'll explain why.

    Android offers a lot customisation, iOS offers simplicity whereas Windows Phone is the best of both worlds, which could be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on Microsoft's strategy.

    Oh and because of the advanced API and SDK of Android it allows for apps to be way more advanced and functional.

    To sum this up:

    iOS apps are probably the most stable and beautiful.

    Android apps have the most features while sometimes lacking in design and/or stability.

    Windows Phone lacks a few required apps and not a whole lot can be said about the apps that are there which are often behind Android/iOS counterparts. But Windows Phone apps do have a nice UI, most times.

    Microsoft itself doesn't think Windows Phone will became more popular than Android or iOS, so no point of us really having hope either. However Microsoft itself is trying to make WP a solid third place OS.



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-08-2014 03:10 PM
  12. Visa Declined's Avatar
    First of all a major reason why people wouldn't switch to Android was because of the massive amount of misinformation and myths that we're around, and the situation is the same with Windows Phone.

    You go on to mention that Android is becoming bloated and buggy, it's quite the opposite. Google allows you to disable carrier bloatware and with further iterations of Android the number of bugs is reducing, being an Android user at the moment I have barely had any apps crash during my time of use.

    You are a person on the WPCentral forums and you seem to be quite knowledge, yet you believe in myths about Android so just imagine the amount of myths a regular person would believe? These myths are the reason why people hesitate trying Android and Windows Phone.

    Moving on, Android has never been the best at privacy but over the years they have improved. I've also noticed that a lot of the people around me, including myself, have never really cared if we are being spied on by the intelligence agencies, of course none of us are terrorists, so why worry? So privacy isn't a reason why people would make the switch.

    In addition to this the Google Play Store does offer some pretty unique encrypted services for secure messages and phone calls, so for those privacy freaks Android does have the solution. And for people who worry too much, there is a Custom ROM on Android called Cyanogenmod allowing for even greater encryption services.

    Moving on, again.

    A lesson my teacher in advertising class taught me, and you might disagree, but she said that either an ad had to be really really good or really really bad for people to remember it, there is no in-between. I partly agree with her and I'll explain why.

    Android offers a lot customisation, iOS offers simplicity whereas Windows Phone is the best of both worlds, which could be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on Microsoft's strategy.

    Oh and because of the advanced API and SDK of Android it allows for apps to be way more advanced and functional.

    To sum this up:

    iOS apps are probably the most stable and beautiful.

    Android apps have the most features while sometimes lacking in design and/or stability.

    Windows Phone lacks a few required apps and not a whole lot can be said about the apps that are there which are often behind Android/iOS counterparts. But Windows Phone apps do have a nice UI, most times.

    Microsoft itself doesn't think Windows Phone will became more popular than Android or iOS, so no point of us really having hope either. However Microsoft itself is trying to make WP a solid third place OS.



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    When was the last time you had a stability problem with Android, and what caused it? What app was it if it was app related? The only time I've had any issues, was when I flashed the first release of Android L, but that was to be expected. I've had a lot of games go buggy on my 920 the past few months, I know that..

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-08-2014 03:42 PM
  13. salmanahmad's Avatar
    When was the last time you had a stability problem with Android, and what caused it? What app was it if it was app related? The only time I've had any issues, was when I flashed the first release of Android L, but that was to be expected. I've had a lot of games go buggy on my 920 the past few months, I know that..

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


    There is this app my little brother likes playing on my phone called Amatuer Surgeson 3(abbreviated Surgeon3) crashed a few times during launch, but that's pretty much the only app that has ever crashed.

    I remember in the past, having owned a Xperia S that back in 2012 Android had some pretty serious crashing bugs to work out. But now it's very very stable.

    But I really hate it when people spread myths about any OS.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-08-2014 03:48 PM
  14. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Android is always going to be buggy/crashy according to many posters here. Don't let it bother you :)
    salmanahmad likes this.
    08-08-2014 06:51 PM
  15. smoledman's Avatar
    Mary Jo Foley just stated Surface has lost $1.7 billion since inception. XBox has lost billions. MS Stores have probably lost a billion dollars too. I guess as long as Windows/Office/Azure keep bringing in the cash, they'll continue flogging those.
    08-08-2014 07:56 PM
  16. smoledman's Avatar
    As far as Cortana vs Siri and Google Now goes, Cortana absolutely crushes both of them in accuracy and features, most times.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    Siri crushes Cortana on local tasks(things that don't require internet) and being in most countries. Google Now crushes Cortana in having more context-created "cards" due to scanning ALL your data without any regard because people seem to prize convenience above privacy. Even if Cortana became objectively the best digital assistant tomorrow it wouldn't matter due to < 4% marketshare.
    08-08-2014 07:58 PM
  17. salmanahmad's Avatar
    Siri crushes Cortana on local tasks(things that don't require internet) and being in most countries. Google Now crushes Cortana in having more context-created "cards" due to scanning ALL your data without any regard because people seem to prize convenience above privacy. Even if Cortana became objectively the best digital assistant tomorrow it wouldn't matter due to < 4% marketshare.
    Yeah I did want to take my statement back because Cortana doesn't completely kill Google Now or Siri.



    Plus another great feature of Google Now is the fact that you can enable it anywhere.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-09-2014 02:34 AM
  18. Visa Declined's Avatar
    The handiest things about Google Now for me are: it letting me know where my packages are in transit(or if they're on my porch), it pushing a notification to me before or after I leave work, telling me if there's a wreck on my route, and touchless voice activation, even from the lock screen. I've really come to rely on it.
    salmanahmad likes this.
    08-09-2014 02:41 AM
  19. kencaz's Avatar
    They need to put voice activation in Cortana.
    08-09-2014 02:46 AM
  20. Clive Rennie's Avatar
    Pushing services to other platforms is fine but push it to your own first make your users happy or else they will go away.
    08-09-2014 12:14 PM
  21. kencaz's Avatar
    Pushing services to other platforms is fine but push it to your own first make your users happy or else they will go away.
    Yep, I think releasing Office to iOS was bad for their hardware (Surface), sales... Quite possible that many Ipad & MB-Air users would have switched to Surface for their primary work computer. Now. NOT...
    08-09-2014 03:30 PM
  22. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Compelling case or not, the future is mobile and windows phone is here to stay whether people like it or not.

    The mobile era will be supersceded by the era where communication tech is actually embedded inside people (if the Sc-Fi trend is anything to go by) .
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 08-09-2014 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Fixed a typo
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-09-2014 03:35 PM
  23. kencaz's Avatar
    Where do you get your false information from?
    2014-08-09_14-10-33.jpg

    It's obvious that ios and google would want WP dead. It's been that way since iOS and MS started. People are looking for larger screens and the current 5s is sorely lacking. Maybe when the 6 comes out their sales will start going again.

    Google is having privacy issues and a lot of people, (myself) included will not longer use Gmail. These people are looking for a new platform.

    Cortana just went international and MS is offering it's OS free for all devices under 8" so there are many manufactures ready to start making windows phones. I think Nadella made bad business decisions regarding Nokia and also releasing Office but still think more will migrate to WP as the apps grow and the OS gets more polished. Android and iOS have had a tremendous head start. WP is growing at a way faster rate then either of them did in previous years.

    I have an 929/Icon, My wife has a MotoX and My Son has a 5S. Siri is way behind you can tell just by using them daily. Cortana when she get's voice activation will surpass google. She already has better voice recognition and more accurate results.
    giulianoreali and ecr80 like this.
    08-09-2014 04:29 PM
  24. Visa Declined's Avatar
    WP is growing at a way faster rate then either of them did in previous years.
    Windows Phone growth has stalled. Maybe you haven't been following the numbers lately, but unfortunately it's true.
    08-09-2014 04:39 PM
  25. tgp's Avatar
    It's obvious that ios and google would want WP dead.
    How is that obvious? I keep reading that here and have yet to see an answer, other than "that's why they don't develop apps for WP." At this point I don't think they care much about WP. WP sales would barely register on Android's scale. Look at Q2 2014 sales; WP sales for the entire quarter were 3 days of Android.

    That said, I'm sure that iOS & Google do want WP dead. They also want each other dead. And Microsoft wants both of them dead.
    08-09-2014 04:47 PM
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