Here's A Compelling Case For Killing Windows Phone

[jdholland79]

I've had Android devices since Cupcake, and haven't owned one yet that wasn't reliable. And not all ROM's are buggy. I stick to the ones that are popular like Cyanogen or Paranoid Android. Really what you're doing here is stating things as being factual, when it's really just your personal opinion. That's fine, and I respect that, but I don't agree with you.

Them are custom roms he's talking about the stock rom you get when you buy the phone plus android is to fragmented go buy 7 or 8 android phone from different. OEMs and the will have different versions of android on the most of the cheap android have no chance in hell of a upgrade and when you get it and you try to install the apps you want you find out it wont work for your version and dont say just get a high end model cuz not everyone one can afford one and not everybody want to sign a two year contract almost every WP will get upgraded only 20% of android phones will

 

[Visa Declined]

almost every WP will get upgraded only 20% of android phones will

My Titan II was under a year old and I didn't get WP 8 when it came out. And yes I'm bitter about it.

 

[fatclue_98]

My Titan II was under a year old and I didn't get WP 8 when it came out. And yes I'm bitter about it.

But it did get Tango and then 7.8. A lot of Androids don't even see 1 update much less 2 or 3. Yes, I know it sucked because the development came to a crashing halt and users were left twisting in the breeze. There should've been massive credits for existing users to upgrade.

Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app

 

[salmanahmad]

Them are custom roms he's talking about the stock rom you get when you buy the phone plus android is to fragmented go buy 7 or 8 android phone from different. OEMs and the will have different versions of android on the most of the cheap android have no chance in hell of a upgrade and when you get it and you try to install the apps you want you find out it wont work for your version and dont say just get a high end model cuz not everyone one can afford one and not everybody want to sign a two year contract almost every WP will get upgraded only 20% of android phones will

While there is some truth to this statement, Android OEMs are trying to somewhat resolve this issue. A good example would be the Moto G or Moto E which cost less than $150 and get the latest updates.

Android has it's shares of faults and flaws but Windows Phone isn't perfect either, remember the Windows Phone 7 disaster? Sure you do.

Plus even if an Android device stops getting updates there are ways to get some of the latest goodies, such as through the Play Store or maybe through Custom ROMs.

But when a Windows Phone reaches EOL status, you can't do much about it.

HTC 8S just recently reached EOL and so did Lumia 810(somewhat).

As far as app compatibility with different versions of Android goes, Android does a better job at it than Windows Phone.

Skype doesn't work anymore for Windows Phone 7 however continues to work with Android 2.3 and I could point out more examples.

But it did get Tango and then 7.8. A lot of Androids don't even see 1 update much less 2 or 3. Yes, I know it sucked because the development came to a crashing halt and users were left twisting in the breeze. There should've been massive credits for existing users to upgrade.

Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app

This is an interesting phenomenon on the WPCentral forums, whenever someone criticizes Windows Phone you guys immediately start bashing Android.

Just a heads up, most older versions of Android have more functionality than the latest Windows Phone 8.1, plus Google works on backporting applications for older versions such as the Google Now Launcher or Hangouts.

And as far as my statement about older versions of Android having more functionality than the latest version of Windows Phone goes, you can't disagree with that.

 

[fatclue_98]

"And as far as my statement about older versions of Android having more functionality than the latest version of Windows Phone goes, you can't disagree with that."

Really? It wasn't until FroYo that you got hotspot. I'll just leave it there since I've lready made my case.


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[salmanahmad]

"And as far as my statement about older versions of Android having more functionality than the latest version of Windows Phone goes, you can't disagree with that."

Really? It wasn't until FroYo that you got hotspot. I'll just leave it there since I've lready made my case.


Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums

First of all I wasn't talking about ancient versions, I apologize for not making myself clear but when I said older versions I meant versions that ran on the majority of devices, in this case being Jellybean or Ice Cream Sandwich(possibly Gingerbread as well).

But your case is quite weak, we got WiFi Hotspot in Froyo? Froyo was launched before Windows Phone even existed. So I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I could point out that Windows Phone didn't get a notification center until the 8.1 release, nearly 4 years after the inception.

But nonetheless let's not talk about features that have been added. Even if you own a low-end Android 4.0 or 4.1 device you have both more functionality and apps available than the latest Windows Phone 8.1, if you want some extended features of Android 4.2 or above you have them in the form of launchers and apps.

I like Windows Phone but hate when you guys start hating on Android. A lot of the issues on Android are exaggerated and often they have fixes or workarounds.

I rest my case. Stop hating.

 

[fatclue_98]

First of all I wasn't talking about ancient versions, I apologize for not making myself clear but when I said older versions I meant versions that ran on the majority of devices, in this case being Jellybean or Ice Cream Sandwich(possibly Gingerbread as well).

But your case is quite weak, we got WiFi Hotspot in Froyo? Froyo was launched before Windows Phone even existed. So I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I could point out that Windows Phone didn't get a notification center until the 8.1 release, nearly 4 years after the inception.

But nonetheless let's not talk about features that have been added. Even if you own a low-end Android 4.0 or 4.1 device you have both more functionality and apps available than the latest Windows Phone 8.1, if you want some extended features of Android 4.2 or above you have them in the form of launchers and apps.

I like Windows Phone but hate when you guys start hating on Android. A lot of the issues on Android are exaggerated and often they have fixes or workarounds.

I rest my case. Stop hating.

You really need to check your history. WP was released in 2010, same as FroYo. I don't hate Android, look at my sig. I am proudly OS-agnostic.

 

[Steve Adams]

First of all I wasn't talking about ancient versions, I apologize for not making myself clear but when I said older versions I meant versions that ran on the majority of devices, in this case being Jellybean or Ice Cream Sandwich(possibly Gingerbread as well).

But your case is quite weak, we got WiFi Hotspot in Froyo? Froyo was launched before Windows Phone even existed. So I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I could point out that Windows Phone didn't get a notification center until the 8.1 release, nearly 4 years after the inception.

But nonetheless let's not talk about features that have been added. Even if you own a low-end Android 4.0 or 4.1 device you have both more functionality and apps available than the latest Windows Phone 8.1, if you want some extended features of Android 4.2 or above you have them in the form of launchers and apps.

I like Windows Phone but hate when you guys start hating on Android. A lot of the issues on Android are exaggerated and often they have fixes or workarounds.

I rest my case. Stop hating.

 

[Steve Adams]

Why have work arounds. Never had to do that with either ios or WP. I have alot of android phones, and there were always issues etc with them. The windows phone os is way more polished and functional than any of my android powered phones.

 

[fatclue_98]

I love how even a thread about the weather in Siberia turns into WP vs. Android.


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[tgp]

I love how even a thread about the weather in Siberia turns into WP vs. Android.

You know that Google, along with carrier reps, cause the harsh winter weather in Siberia, don't you? It's one of the tactics they're using to try to kill WP.

 

[salmanahmad]

Going back on topic now, I hadn't fully read the article in the first place but just completed it and have realized that what this person says somewhat makes sense.

Microsoft has always been one of my favorite companies and a lot of their services really appealed to me but today they face a negative reputation for almost everything, from Windows 8 to Internet Explorer and to Xbox One(for not being powerful enough to support 1080p)

And now...despite the fact that Microsoft's existing services aren't thriving they continue to support an OS that people are straight up not even wiling to try! They constantly keep repeating the "mobile first" slogan when they should be improving the services that matter more to people.

Killing Windows Phone would be somewhat of a shame as I do like the OS but in it's current state it really offers barely any advantages over Android and iOS.

Plus Microsoft hasn't been able to convince the majority of customers and developers to actively support Windows Phone and any attempts made by Microsoft to improve the app condition (such as by allowing Android apps) is met with harsh abuse from the Windows community.

Killing Windows Phone might be sad for those that purchased it but will probably help Microsoft improve it's other services.

What do you guys think?

 

[bilzkh]

Going back on topic now, I hadn't fully read the article in the first place but just completed it and have realized that what this person says somewhat makes sense.

Microsoft has always been one of my favorite companies and a lot of their services really appealed to me but today they face a negative reputation for almost everything, from Windows 8 to Internet Explorer and to Xbox One(for not being powerful enough to support 1080p)

And now...despite the fact that Microsoft's existing services aren't thriving they continue to support an OS that people are straight up not even wiling to try! They constantly keep repeating the "mobile first" slogan when they should be improving the services that matter more to people.

Killing Windows Phone would be somewhat of a shame as I do like the OS but in it's current state it really offers barely any advantages over Android and iOS.

Plus Microsoft hasn't been able to convince the majority of customers and developers to actively support Windows Phone and any attempts made by Microsoft to improve the app condition (such as by allowing Android apps) is met with harsh abuse from the Windows community.

Killing Windows Phone might be sad for those that purchased it but will probably help Microsoft improve it's other services.

What do you guys think?

Killing Windows Phone would mean throwing some 40-50 *million* users under the bus...assuming that in the following year another 15-20 million users don't sign on, which they likely will given how many OEMs are entering the market now with WP.

So cancelling it would be a horrible idea and might even impact the number of subscribers on their services. Remember, unlike iOS or Android, it's on Windows Phone where Microsoft services get front and center treatment. From the first moment you'll have to sign onto (or use) a Microsoft Account, and from there, your life orbits around Microsoft's service offerings.

Which leads to my second point, unlike Android, Windows Phone only had one serious OEM backing it in 2013-2014, i.e. Nokia. However much mass Nokia can drive on its own, it's still Nokia vs. Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG, Acer and a plethora of other OEMs, e.g. Micromax, Karbonn, Hi Sense, Xiaomi, etc. I don't know how many Windows Phones consumers could possibly pick up in the market if about 97% of the supply is pushed by Android, and that too at very low price points (it's only now that Microsoft's offering the WP OS for free).

Which leads to me my third point, would WP have done equally as bad if many OEMs decided to push it and if carriers, world wide, gave it as much of a serious shot as Android? You're in Pakistan so you're not entirely familiar with how much weight carriers have in places such as North America, they're often the make-or-break venues for platforms. What chance would WP even have if a carrier store can't even be bothered to have a working demo unit for users to play around with?

I think this is becoming a discussion about "let's kill Windows Phone for the sake of it" than the intrinsic qualities of the OS, and that's quite sickening to be honest. And no it's not sickening because Windows Phone might die, that'd just be disappointing, but it's sick because it illustrates just how plain stupid many people are getting. Why kill the 3rd (or 4th or 5th)? Why not push it even harder and drive more diversity and choice in the market?

 

[tgp]

Remember, unlike iOS or Android, it's on Windows Phone where Microsoft services get front and center treatment. From the first moment you'll have to sign onto (or use) a Microsoft Account, and from there, your life orbits around Microsoft's service offerings.

That's the key right there. On iOS and Android, Microsoft's services are optional, and not default. On WP, you have little other options.

OTOH, how valuable are those WP users to Microsoft? Most of their revenue comes from business customers, very few of whom use WP (1%). So is the cash that Microsoft is hemorrhaging on WP worth it? If a lot of their revenue comes from businesses, almost none of whom use WP, what's the point of WP?

 

[fatclue_98]

That's the key right there. On iOS and Android, Microsoft's services are optional, and not default. On WP, you have little other options.

OTOH, how valuable are those WP users to Microsoft? Most of their revenue comes from business customers, very few of whom use WP (1%). So is the cash that Microsoft is hemorrhaging on WP worth it? If a lot of their revenue comes from businesses, almost none of whom use WP, what's the point of WP?

The point should be to make WP the go-to enterprise device like BlackBerry was in the mid to late 2000s. With Office, OneDrive and Lync integration and VPN capability, why the bleep not?

 

[bilzkh]

That's the key right there. On iOS and Android, Microsoft's services are optional, and not default. On WP, you have little other options.

OTOH, how valuable are those WP users to Microsoft? Most of their revenue comes from business customers, very few of whom use WP (1%). So is the cash that Microsoft is hemorrhaging on WP worth it? If a lot of their revenue comes from businesses, almost none of whom use WP, what's the point of WP?

Windows Phone is probably the only thing Microsoft has to offer to the next generation of users - across the globe - that will position its services front and center. While larger enterprises are in Microsoft's orbit, smaller entities are gradually drifting away and into Google's orbit, i.e. Google Docs, Hangouts, etc. I've personally seen people instinctively use Google Docs when they have Office 365 available to them, and when I inquired, it's because they genuinely spent more time on Docs over the past couple of years. I OTOH instinctively go to Office, even when my friends instinctively go to Docs.

Exposure has a critical effect on people's behavior, and it won't do Microsoft any long-term good if it cannot secure a platform where its services receive the necessary exposure to maintain users and a subscriber base. There's no point polishing the top when the base is thinning out.

There are tens of millions of WP users today, by this time next year, it's possible that the user base may double (owing to the higher number of WP OEMs this time around). In a span of 2-3 years you're talking about 120-150 million users who are receiving full time exposure to Microsoft's services.

 

[tgp]

Windows Phone is probably the only thing Microsoft has to offer to the next generation of users - across the globe - that will position its services front and center. While larger enterprises are in Microsoft's orbit, smaller entities are gradually drifting away and into Google's orbit, i.e. Google Docs, Hangouts, etc. I've personally seen people instinctively use Google Docs when they have Office 365 available to them, and when I inquired, it's because they genuinely spent more time on Docs over the past couple of years. I OTOH instinctively go to Office, even when my friends instinctively go to Docs.

Exposure has a critical effect on people's behavior, and it won't do Microsoft any long-term good if it cannot secure a platform where its services receive the necessary exposure to maintain users and a subscriber base. There's no point polishing the top when the base is thinning out.

There are tens of millions of WP users today, by this time next year, it's possible that the user base may double (owing to the higher number of WP OEMs this time around). In a span of 2-3 years you're talking about 120-150 million users who are receiving full time exposure to Microsoft's services.

I'm one of those that uses Office, partly because I've used it since, like, forever, and also because I'm employed by a Microsoft partner. I don't see that changing anytime soon. But had I not been using Office for so long, I'd probably be on Google Docs as well. Office is much more capable, but for my personal use Docs would work just as well. Looking solely at the online services, Docs were actually better until Office's recent improvements.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

 

[bilzkh]

I'm one of those that uses Office, partly because I've used it since, like, forever, and also because I'm employed by a Microsoft partner. I don't see that changing anytime soon. But had I not been on it so long, I'd probably be on Google Docs as well. Office is much more capable, but for my personal use Docs would work just as well. Looking solely at the online services, Docs were actually better until Office's recent improvements.

Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk

When I started undergrad, the most popular software students would pirate on campus was Office 2007. It was absolutely unthinkable that one would have a Windows PC without Office! We first started using Docs in our extracurricular activities, namely due to its sharing capabilities, and never looked back ... until I pushed Office Online.

Now having Office Mobile available on iOS and Android helped considerably in changing user attitudes, e.g. when someone starts work on Office Online, the team continues it. However, of the people I know who bought a Windows Phone, all of them for some reason thought it was a good idea to buy a 1 year Office 365 subscription. I don't know why, but as WP users they just felt compelled to do so, people do weird things. Native exposure has weird effects.

On another story, my brother couldn't bother himself with swapping out Bing with Google on his Lenovo Yoga. My nieces and nephews aren't accustomed to searching using the browser, they just search directly and are constantly seeing "Bing". When my brother was searching for something on Google, my niece (9 year old) said, "why aren't you using this" (pointing to the search button)? The "Bing" logo just brings her a sense of familiarity, the kind we didn't have when we kept seeing Bing for the first time. Now from a quality standpoint those kids only search for Nickelodeon or specific major websites, them trying Google as they get older wouldn't surprise me, but at least Bing isn't alien.

 

[salmanahmad]

Killing Windows Phone would mean throwing some 40-50 *million* users under the bus...assuming that in the following year another 15-20 million users don't sign on, which they likely will given how many OEMs are entering the market now with WP.

So cancelling it would be a horrible idea and might even impact the number of subscribers on their services. Remember, unlike iOS or Android, it's on Windows Phone where Microsoft services get front and center treatment. From the first moment you'll have to sign onto (or use) a Microsoft Account, and from there, your life orbits around Microsoft's service offerings.

Which leads to my second point, unlike Android, Windows Phone only had one serious OEM backing it in 2013-2014, i.e. Nokia. However much mass Nokia can drive on its own, it's still Nokia vs. Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG, Acer and a plethora of other OEMs, e.g. Micromax, Karbonn, Hi Sense, Xiaomi, etc. I don't know how many Windows Phones consumers could possibly pick up in the market if about 97% of the supply is pushed by Android, and that too at very low price points (it's only now that Microsoft's offering the WP OS for free).

Which leads to me my third point, would WP have done equally as bad if many OEMs decided to push it and if carriers, world wide, gave it as much of a serious shot as Android? You're in Pakistan so you're not entirely familiar with how much weight carriers have in places such as North America, they're often the make-or-break venues for platforms. What chance would WP even have if a carrier store can't even be bothered to have a working demo unit for users to play around with?

I think this is becoming a discussion about "let's kill Windows Phone for the sake of it" than the intrinsic qualities of the OS, and that's quite sickening to be honest. And no it's not sickening because Windows Phone might die, that'd just be disappointing, but it's sick because it illustrates just how plain stupid many people are getting. Why kill the 3rd (or 4th or 5th)? Why not push it even harder and drive more diversity and choice in the market?

Who says Windows Phone has to be killed? But for people to try it out Microsoft would again have to try to do something that will earn them a negative reputation, get Android apps because there is really no other way, developers don't really take this OS seriously.

And the more OEMs that join in, it's a double edged sword. What I mean is that before only a brand that was reputable "Nokia" was producing the majority of Windows Phones but now that you see more of them made by companies like Micromax(which has somewhat of a bad reputation in India) you'll start to see more fragmentation and Windows Phone won't be the same premium and optimized experience it used to be.

Yes Windows Phone is the third largest but I don't think it'll ever go beyond that, no one does. It might establish itself as a sold third place OS but it's very unlikely that it'll go further.

In Pakistan you are right we have very few companies offering phones on contracts, we have to get phones off-contract via local stores which is sometimes more expensive. But I've seen that Nokia does some decent advertising here and Lumias will often be the only devices display in shops for people to use, but has that made an impact in sales? Nope, people still walk out with their fancy new iPhone or HTC One, or Galaxy S5 and so on...

One of my cousins and me actually tried Windows Phone by purchasing a Lumia 520 in January, my cousin switched to a Note 3 just a few months later and I asked him why.

He replied by saying that the optimization of Windows Phone even on the low-end devices is amazing but the OS is not nearly as polished as it needs to be for me to cash out over $600 for it. He's actually right.

And Microsoft can only do so much, it's offered programs to encourage developers and even asked them, it just doesn't work.

Microsoft's only alternative is to go for Android apps, another thing that may kill Windows Phone.

So really the future of Windows Phone for Microsoft is really a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I don't want it dead but it's not thriving either and eating up a lot of resources and time of Microsoft.

But I do agree with one of your points, Windows Phone is the starting point of where people begin to start using Microsoft's services. Having switched back to Android myself I still use Outlook and OneDrive, both of which have amazing apps on the Google Play Store, in fact the Outloook app is even better the Windows Phone version.

But if Microsoft's services are available on other OSes, what's the point of really going for Windows Phone? Especially when the services provided on Android and iOS are often better than the ones on Windows Phone.

 

[colinkiama]

ut if Microsoft's services are available on other OSes, what's the point of really going for Windows Phone? Especially when the services provided on Android and iOS are often better than the ones on Windows Phone.

EXACTLY. That's why they should make the microsoft services exclusive to windows. The same way apple services will never be released to any other phone platform (Beats Music was not originally apple's).