08-11-2014 12:24 PM
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  1. salmanahmad's Avatar
    Every example you mentioned is a review of a particular device that runs WP. Look for articles regarding the OS itself and it might as well be the comments section on a WPCentral thread regarding lack of customization, ugly live tiles or any one of the hundred bellyaches that former Android users spew. As Judge Judy would say, "your objections are noted and overruled, now get out!"
    The people who comment are different from the reviewers, I would like if you direct me to a review of Windows Phone where the reviewers have unfairly criticized it.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-10-2014 03:45 AM
  2. Andrea988's Avatar
    I think you are the one who missed the point. You're assuming that those computers were all purchased 13 years ago. What Laura meant was that XP was supported for an unusually long time as compared to other systems and other OS makers.
    No you're missing the point and somehow seem to have got it completely the wrong way around. Laura was the one who said that she wouldn't expect a 13 year old car to be supported. That's not what I meant, I said exactly the opposite if you read it carefully, that you need to consider when XP was LAST sold, not the ones sold 13 years ago.

    Many of the computers that are around running XP are no more than a couple of years old and that's my point. The "experts" are trying to deceive us into thinking that if something is running XP it must be 13 years old but there were stores selling new netbooks just 2 years ago that were installed with XP.

    Besides I have seen others using the same argument, that 13 year old cars should not be supported (in fact the truth is you can almost certainly still get parts for many 13 year old cars in most cases so it's a bad analogy anyway) and I've also seen other items used in the same analogy, clothes for example, but it just silly. If we are going to use that argument should we scrap every bus, train and boat every ten years? Should we knock down and rebuild our houses every 15 years?

    The point is, which on various forums everybody seems to be missing, is that a huge percentage of the world's population - hundreds of millions of people - are still using XP so having made billions out of it Microsoft should continue to support it. If there were only a few people left then fair enough, drop support but that's not the case. Microsoft don't care about what OS you are using or about your security online, they simply want to make more money and what better way than to force everybody into buying the latest OS? After all, that's how they made their billions in the first place.
    08-10-2014 06:06 AM
  3. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    I tend to agree that there is a hate for Microsoft. But I won't go that far to say that tech review sites publish biased reviews against windows phone because of Microsoft. Yes, we do get biased review now and then. Like Engadget's review of Lumia 630.

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/17/n...ia-630-review/

    Sorry for repetition I know this has been discussed in some of the threads before.

    As for hate towards Microsoft, I believe that spews from their dominance in PC market for so long.
    Yes, some critics are to the point. Are Microsoft preferring other platforms with their services? Yes. Should the issues like XBox music be expected from a software giant like Microsoft? No.

    But the thing is Microsoft had been at top in PC market for so long(they still are) that they they couldn't see the shift in the air. Not only were they late to capture mobile OS but also to provide their services(which form the majority of their profit) on those platforms.

    Now, they have realized this thing. So, what they are doing is that they are providing their services like Office, one drive, outlook on other platforms which make the majority of their profits to secure them first while also, slowly working their way toward building their own platforms and ecosystems. And I must say, I'm pretty pleased with their strategy recently.
    Andrea988 likes this.
    08-10-2014 06:55 AM
  4. hidayat225's Avatar
    I find it intriguing when around 70% journalist I've seen uses a Mac, it just doesn't feel right, its not like they are wrong to do that but I think this might contribute a bit to to not liking Microsoft. Almost every YouTuber I've watched uses a Mac. Especially the tech geeks. The Verge is a good example.
    08-10-2014 10:38 AM
  5. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I find it intriguing when around 70% journalist I've seen uses a Mac, it just doesn't feel right, its not like they are wrong to do that but I think this might contribute a bit to to not liking Microsoft. Almost every YouTuber I've watched uses a Mac. Especially the tech geeks. The Verge is a good example.
    There are several reasons for using Mac over Windows, this doesn't contribute to hate towards Windows.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-10-2014 10:53 AM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    No you're missing the point and somehow seem to have got it completely the wrong way around. Laura was the one who said that she wouldn't expect a 13 year old car to be supported. That's not what I meant, I said exactly the opposite if you read it carefully, that you need to consider when XP was LAST sold, not the ones sold 13 years ago.

    Many of the computers that are around running XP are no more than a couple of years old and that's my point. The "experts" are trying to deceive us into thinking that if something is running XP it must be 13 years old but there were stores selling new netbooks just 2 years ago that were installed with XP.

    Besides I have seen others using the same argument, that 13 year old cars should not be supported (in fact the truth is you can almost certainly still get parts for many 13 year old cars in most cases so it's a bad analogy anyway) and I've also seen other items used in the same analogy, clothes for example, but it just silly. If we are going to use that argument should we scrap every bus, train and boat every ten years? Should we knock down and rebuild our houses every 15 years?

    The point is, which on various forums everybody seems to be missing, is that a huge percentage of the world's population - hundreds of millions of people - are still using XP so having made billions out of it Microsoft should continue to support it. If there were only a few people left then fair enough, drop support but that's not the case. Microsoft don't care about what OS you are using or about your security online, they simply want to make more money and what better way than to force everybody into buying the latest OS? After all, that's how they made their billions in the first place.
    Ok, riddle me this.

    By your logic you state MS should still support it because it was a great OS, they made serious paper on it and devices were still being sold with XP on them as of recently. Right? That's your argument?

    There are still brand new HP TouchPad tablets being sold by outlets (Woot, among others). Should HP/Palm still support them?

    There are some 2006-era eMacs also being sold BNIB online. Ya think Apple is still honoring those for warranty purposes considering they are PowerPC units?

    C'mon man!
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    08-10-2014 10:59 AM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I find it intriguing when around 70% journalist I've seen uses a Mac, it just doesn't feel right, its not like they are wrong to do that but I think this might contribute a bit to to not liking Microsoft. Almost every YouTuber I've watched uses a Mac. Especially the tech geeks. The Verge is a good example.
    What's that got to do with the price of tea in China? If the boss at The Verge says "we use Macs", that's the end of the conversation. I've never seen a workplace where the employees dictate what office equipment they use.
    08-10-2014 11:03 AM
  8. Andrea988's Avatar
    Ok, riddle me this.

    By your logic you state MS should still support it because it was a great OS, they made serious paper on it and devices were still being sold with XP on them as of recently. Right? That's your argument?

    There are still brand new HP TouchPad tablets being sold by outlets (Woot, among others). Should HP/Palm still support them?

    There are some 2006-era eMacs also being sold BNIB online. Ya think Apple is still honoring those for warranty purposes considering they are PowerPC units?

    C'mon man!
    No, I didn't say it was because it was a great OS (and I'm not saying it wasn't), but once again the difference between the HP/Apple products you mention is that there are relatively few of them out there. People are buying those probably in the knowledge that there is likely to be little, if any, support. The point with XP is that there are HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people out there still using it, in fact I read in one report that over 30% of the world's computers are STILL using XP. If there are THAT MANY users then YES, Microsoft should continue to support it.

    A lot of the younger readers won't appreciate this but at one time the world produced quality products that were built to last for as long as possible. now we produce goods with as short a lifespan as possible to effectively force us into buying replacements as often as possible. How do you think companies like Microsoft, Samsung, and dozens of others I can mention got so big so quickly? MS could afford to support XP for a long time to come if they wanted to and would have still made a huge profit out of it but from their point of view it makes more sense to make more money by forcing people to buy new kit.
    08-10-2014 12:07 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Don't know how old you are but I remember how bad Detroit was in the 70s. Back to your post, I simply can't wrap my head around your suggestion that MS should have had to support XP as long as they did. Three versions came and went before the plug was pulled. It was a sign of goodwill more than anything on their part, not a requirement.

    Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app
    08-10-2014 12:14 PM
  10. Andrea988's Avatar
    Goodwill? There were three versions because it was a successful, popular OS. They were putting it inside netbooks right up to the end of 2010 which often didn't hit the shelves until anything up to a year later and then a couple of years on they stop supporting it. Nobody is saying it was a requirement but that's the point - they COULD support it if they wanted to. Corporate greed is the only reason they don't.
    jayantisoftware likes this.
    08-10-2014 12:21 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    So it's ok for other companies to drop support after 18 months but if MS doesn't continue to support a product launched shortly after 9/11, it's corporate greed. Sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water.
    Guytronic, Laura Knotek and k72 like this.
    08-10-2014 03:12 PM
  12. Andrea988's Avatar
    So it's ok for other companies to drop support after 18 months but if MS doesn't continue to support a product launched shortly after 9/11, it's corporate greed. Sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water.
    No, I didn't say it was OK for anybody to drop support after 18 months, you're just twisting the issue. You need to think a little deeper.

    If there are MILLIONS of users of a product it makes sense to support them, if there are not, as much as it would be desirable to support just a few, it simply wouldn't make economic sense. In fact it would probably be cheaper for those companies to just give those users a new product rather than support an ageing, unpopular one. But in the case of XP for example, for 30% of the world's computer users to be simply told we're not supporting you anymore....well try to work out why hundreds of millions of people hate Microsoft, it's not rocket science.

    And what the hell does 9/11 have to do with it? If you're referring to the date what is important as I have said before is the date they STOPPED selling it, not the date they started. Only the very first users have had support from day one remember.
    08-10-2014 03:31 PM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Lord help the church! How can anyone expect any company to support a product launched 13 years ago? I don't give a fat baby's a** how many people are still using it or when they bought it. There comes a time when things become obsolete. Web standards change, 3rd party apps stop working, etc. You can keep using XP 'til the cows come home but MS won't support it anymore. Whether you want to accept it or not is your own business. Want to hate MS and go to another platform? Fine, it's your choice. I'd love for my Treo 680 and my T/X to still have Facebook support as well as EAS, but it ain't happening. Deal with it.
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    08-10-2014 03:54 PM
  14. Andrea988's Avatar
    It's not a matter of accepting it, it's a matter of what's right and what isn't. As I seem to have to keep on saying, it isn't about when it was first introduced it was about when it was last sold. Millions of people are being screwed, sure you don't give a toss because it doesn't affect you personally, that's the sad side of human nature but those millions of people do and that's why people hate MS. Nobody mentioned going to another platform, I'm just answering the question, "Why do so many people hate WP?" - mostly because a LOT of people hate MS because they are a greedy corporation. Fact. Get over it.

    Incidentally I can name you a lot of products introduced over 13 years ago that are still supported so it's not as if it can't be done.
    hidayat225 likes this.
    08-10-2014 04:04 PM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Of course it affects me. I'm not rich, I can't buy the latest and greatest on a whim. But I also realize that companies need to make paper. There is no unalienable right to a computer so there's a price to pay for being connected.

    Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    08-10-2014 04:15 PM
  16. Andrea988's Avatar
    Of course it affects me. I'm not rich, I can't buy the latest and greatest on a whim. But I also realize that companies need to make paper. There is no unalienable right to a computer so there's a price to pay for being connected.

    Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app
    Yes I agree totally with that, but it's the lines that are drawn in the wrong place. If few people still use it then tough, but when hundreds of millions of people are still using a product they bought in good faith then that is enough reason alone to continue supporting it. I'm not rich either but we can probably both afford the latest stuff from time to time, but not everybody can especially just after a recession.
    08-10-2014 04:39 PM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    Yes I agree totally with that, but it's the lines that are drawn in the wrong place. If few people still use it then tough, but when hundreds of millions of people are still using a product they bought in good faith then that is enough reason alone to continue supporting it. I'm not rich either but we can probably both afford the latest stuff from time to time, but not everybody can especially just after a recession.
    With that mentality the railroad industry would probably still be using steam locomotives.

    And FWIW, support for XP from Microsoft is still available. It just costs a lot. XP is old technology. 13 years in software is a lifetime. A lot of programs developed today don't even run on XP. Its time has come.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-10-2014 04:46 PM
  18. Andrea988's Avatar
    With that mentality the railroad industry would probably still be using steam locomotives.

    And FWIW, support for XP from Microsoft is still available. It just costs a lot.
    Perhaps we should scrap trains, boats and planes every 10-15 years then with your mentality. Once again somebody is wrongly assuming I'm advocating supporting something forever.
    08-10-2014 04:49 PM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes I agree totally with that, but it's the lines that are drawn in the wrong place. If few people still use it then tough, but when hundreds of millions of people are still using a product they bought in good faith then that is enough reason alone to continue supporting it. I'm not rich either but we can probably both afford the latest stuff from time to time, but not everybody can especially just after a recession.
    I take it you're ok then with Skype dropping support for Symbian and WP7 because "few people use it". Facebook broke their API and as a result left webOS, Symbian and Windows Mobile users twisting in the wind. When MS didn't adopt CalDAV and BBOS 7 users had to seek Funambol or other remedies to sync their calendars that was ok too. I'm guessing none of these situations affected you.

    "When my neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. When I lose my job, it's a depression."
    08-10-2014 04:53 PM
  20. smoledman's Avatar
    Think about why consumers are not considering Windows Phone to begin with. They go into a carrier store(AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Orange, etc..) and see a Windows Phone display with a blown-up representation of the Start Screen. They immediately see a bunch of flat, square/rectangular tiles where it all just blends together in a mass of confusion and wasted space. In Windows Phone, the default is the square tile, so the first view you'll have is about 6-8 tiles visible at a time whereas in iPhone you'll see 20 icons and in Android perhaps even more at a time in their "app drawers". Remember this is a small display to begin with, so real-estate is prized. MS wasted it from the beginning with Live Tiles. Yeah you can say they helped to alleviate it with the smaller tiles, but that makes things even worse because small tiles are not live, and are even less discernible as to what they are. I think the Live Tiles are a huge UX failure for 95% of the people and it's reflected in market share.
    08-10-2014 04:54 PM
  21. hasasimo's Avatar
    Many of the same Android fanboys are jealous of Windows Phone hardware, if nothing else. They've been clamoring for Nokia hardware running Android on forums, article comments, etc. for over three years now. When they didn't get their way their beratement for WP grew exponentially. Just one of many reasons for what the OP posted.
    08-10-2014 05:01 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Think about why consumers are not considering Windows Phone to begin with. They go into a carrier store(AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Orange, etc..) and see a Windows Phone display with a blown-up representation of the Start Screen. They immediately see a bunch of flat, square/rectangular tiles where it all just blends together in a mass of confusion and wasted space. In Windows Phone, the default is the square tile, so the first view you'll have is about 6-8 tiles visible at a time whereas in iPhone you'll see 20 icons and in Android perhaps even more at a time in their "app drawers". Remember this is a small display to begin with, so real-estate is prized. MS wasted it from the beginning with Live Tiles. Yeah you can say they helped to alleviate it with the smaller tiles, but that makes things even worse because small tiles are not live, and are even less discernible as to what they are. I think the Live Tiles are a huge UX failure for 95% of the people and it's reflected in market share.
    Agreed 100%. I think MS has to show off the transparent tiles with some of the nice wallpapers in the background. If anything, it shows there are options.
    08-10-2014 05:01 PM
  23. Andrea988's Avatar
    I take it you're ok then with Skype dropping support for Symbian and WP7 because "few people use it". Facebook broke their API and as a result left webOS, Symbian and Windows Mobile users twisting in the wind. When MS didn't adopt CalDAV and BBOS 7 users had to seek Funambol or other remedies to sync their calendars that was ok too. I'm guessing none of these situations affected you.

    "When my neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. When I lose my job, it's a depression."
    Why would I be OK with it? People can quote thousands of examples from different products and situations and I have had to replace plenty in my lifetime but you have to judge each situation on it's own merits so ONE MORE TIME, this is an issue that affects MILLIONS and the more people something like this affects the less justification there is for it.

    This isn't about me. I'll say it again, the original question was "Why is there so much hate for WP?" 180 posts later, you guys still don't seem to have worked out the answer that is staring you in the face.
    08-10-2014 05:02 PM
  24. chezm's Avatar
    I see the small icons equal to grid icons seen on android and IOS...the biggest complaint ppl tell me about WP is its too overwhelming (too much happening on start screen).
    08-10-2014 05:02 PM
  25. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Like Engadget's review of Lumia 630.
    Nokia Lumia 630 review: An affordable phone you can live without
    Sorry for repetition I know this has been discussed in some of the threads before.
    Oh God, I've never read that review. They absolutely tore that phone apart. Is the battery life really that bad on it?
    08-10-2014 05:03 PM
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