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08-17-2014 02:28 PM
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  1. peacefulberry's Avatar
    LOL I don't get what the big deal is. So what if someone can see my e-mail messages, images and other media. I have nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal. If you have nothing to hide then don't be worried about something like this.
    Just to be clear, it's still a privacy issue. It's equivalent to the postal service opening up your mail, reading it, and stuffing it with ads based on the letter someone wrote to you. But, my point was that this is not a Google issue, these ads are used by many tech giants (including Microsoft) and the only way to avoid this is to purchase your own email services with no 3rd party involvement. #moneytalks #cashisking Lol
    08-06-2014 03:41 PM
  2. dlalonde's Avatar
    LOL I don't get what the big deal is. So what if someone can see my e-mail messages, images and other media. I have nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal. If you have nothing to hide then don't be worried about something like this.
    Oh! So basically you're OK with the police barging in randomly in your home and searching everywhere, through your mail, your bank documents, your porn (if any), and so on?

    "The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement."

    That's the danger with authorities having the right to put their nose in our business and decide what is OK and not. Don't get me wrong, child porn is 100% wrong (and disgusting), no question there. But you know, if the police started searching every home everywhere, they'd catch a lot of pedophiles, drug dealers, murderers and so on. So why not just do that?

    In itself, most of us have nothing to hide per se... but do we want to show everything? There's a difference.
    Guytronic and k72 like this.
    08-06-2014 06:03 PM
  3. colinkiama's Avatar
    Just to be clear, it's still a privacy issue. It's equivalent to the postal service opening up your mail, reading it, and stuffing it with ads based on the letter someone wrote to you. But, my point was that this is not a Google issue, these ads are used by many tech giants (including Microsoft) and the only way to avoid this is to purchase your own email services with no 3rd party involvement. #moneytalks #cashisking Lol
    You definitely watched the scroogled ad lool.

    Yeah it's wrong but someone has gotta pay the bills. No one is stopping you from purchasing your own email services.
    Last edited by colinkiama; 08-06-2014 at 06:39 PM.
    08-06-2014 06:29 PM
  4. colinkiama's Avatar
    Oh! So basically you're OK with the police barging in randomly in your home and searching everywhere, through your mail, your bank documents, your porn (if any), and so on?

    "The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement."

    That's the danger with authorities having the right to put their nose in our business and decide what is OK and not. Don't get me wrong, child porn is 100% wrong (and disgusting), no question there. But you know, if the police started searching every home everywhere, they'd catch a lot of pedophiles, drug dealers, murderers and so on. So why not just do that?

    In itself, most of us have nothing to hide per se... but do we want to show everything? There's a difference.
    There are obviously restrictions when it comes to real life and our homes but due to the open, powerful nature internet, anything can happen. Everything is in the terms and conditions (even though no-one cares to read it). If you don't like GMail don't use it. We do have privacy of course but due to how dangerous the internet can be, security must be put first of privacy , even if it means scanning through mail. If you don't like it, you are free to write letters the old fashioned way.
    08-06-2014 06:35 PM
  5. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    Its al in the eye's of the beholder....one mans family photos is somebody else kiddyporn. I have photos of my little daughter bathing......so arrest me. Here is someone taking in for questioning because he took pictures on the beach of playing kids.....it was just a guy making pics for a brochure of that beach. He was dragged away like a criminal.
    Guytronic likes this.
    08-06-2014 06:51 PM
  6. Mark Eggleston's Avatar
    Why cant google mail users just zip up the nudy pictures with a password?
    08-06-2014 07:08 PM
  7. realwarder's Avatar
    LOL I don't get what the big deal is. So what if someone can see my e-mail messages, images and other media. I have nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal. If you have nothing to hide then don't be worried about something like this.
    The issue with that view is how far you want to go. For instance if you have nothing to hide then is the government having a video camera in every room at home fine? How about remotely viewing your phone camera and audio 24/7.

    Generally people have limits of what they consider personal space.. And what one person thinks is acceptable is different from another's, irrelevant of whether you have "something to hide"
    08-06-2014 07:10 PM
  8. dlalonde's Avatar
    There are obviously restrictions when it comes to real life and our homes but due to the open, powerful nature internet, anything can happen. Everything is in the terms and conditions (even though no-one cares to read it). If you don't like GMail don't use it. We do have privacy of course but due to how dangerous the internet can be, security must be put first of privacy , even if it means scanning through mail. If you don't like it, you are free to write letters the old fashioned way.
    Actually, given that we do most of those important things online, where is the line between "real life and our homes" and the rest? That's my point. Reading our mail and our emails is exactly the same thing.

    Obviously though, the "if you don't like Gmail don't use it" is the answer to this problem. But the rhetoric of "security comes first" and "I have nothing to hide" is extremely dangerous because, like I said, given the number of things we do on the Web now, the line between the Web and "real life" is becoming thinner every minute. The fact remains that, as much as I don't want anyone in my mail, my bank account and so on, I don't want them in my emails, my online bank interface and so on. It's just that, on the Web, it's less disturbing because you don't see it. But the principle remains.

    The issue with that view is how far you want to go. For instance if you have nothing to hide then is the government having a video camera in every room at home fine? How about remotely viewing your phone camera and audio 24/7.

    Generally people have limits of what they consider personal space.. And what one person thinks is acceptable is different from another's, irrelevant of whether you have "something to hide"
    Exactly!

    Its al in the eye's of the beholder....one mans family photos is somebody else kiddyporn. I have photos of my little daughter bathing......so arrest me. Here is someone taking in for questioning because he took pictures on the beach of playing kids.....it was just a guy making pics for a brochure of that beach. He was dragged away like a criminal.
    To be honest, although there have been some documented arrests based on errors, anyone with a bit of logic knows the difference between child porn and a picture of your baby bathing. So, in the eye of the law, no one man's family photos is not somebody else's kiddyporn.
    Cleavitt76 likes this.
    08-06-2014 07:11 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The ends do not justify the means. Yes, they caught a POS who gets his rocks off with children and deserves to be made into someone's b***h in the clink but companies and governments just LOVE to use situations like this for their own nefarious purposes. I'm Cuban so I'm not as jaded as some who've lived their entire lives under a blanket of freedom. Trust me, this never leads to anything good.
    josh715m and Guytronic like this.
    08-06-2014 08:09 PM
  10. peacefulberry's Avatar
    Also, I just wanted to clarify something: The technology used to catch the child photos is called "PhotoDNA" and it was actually developed by Microsoft and given to Google, Facebook, and others as an agreement between tech companies and child advocates to help stop this illegal activity. Its not actually ppl reading emails, but this technology assigns numbers to colors/gradients/shadings so that an inappropriate photo will equal a certain number. If the photo matches these numbers, then the photos are examined and turned over to law enforcement. You can read more about this technology here http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why...acy-violation/

    My comments involved using adwords for relative advertising to email users of free accounts.
    Visa Declined and D M C like this.
    08-07-2014 12:43 AM
  11. colinkiama's Avatar
    I have a feeling that google is trying to take over the world. There's something fishy about the way they operate. Despite all of this though, they have a damn good search engine.
    08-07-2014 07:50 AM
  12. BB10fanatic's Avatar
    One of the reasons I'm trying WP is because even though I rallied against MSFT in the 90's I prefer their business model. Take my money upfront, don't sell your access to my information, however anonymized it may be, it's just not a comforting business model.
    08-07-2014 07:52 AM
  13. peacefulberry's Avatar
    One of the reasons I'm trying WP is because even though I rallied against MSFT in the 90's I prefer their business model. Take my money upfront, don't sell your access to my information, however anonymized it may be, it's just not a comforting business model.
    I don't know if you know, but Microsoft sells access to your information as well. It's called targeted, relative, behavioral or personalized advertising. Most companies (big and small) do in some way by using cookies, advertising ids, web beacons, ad words, etc. Here's a screenshot of Microsoft's policy about this. You can opt out of most tracking, but I would def use incognito on chrome or private browsing on ie. screenshot_2014-08-07-09-34-34.jpg
    08-07-2014 09:51 AM
  14. BB10fanatic's Avatar
    Thanks, I do know that MSFT is in the advertising business, but it is not the basis of their business.
    08-07-2014 12:07 PM
  15. RavenSword's Avatar
    I'm still back and forth wether I care about googles so called invasion of privacy. It's all anonymous data as far as I know. And you do get good services out of it.
    08-10-2014 12:08 PM
  16. dlalonde's Avatar
    I'm still back and forth wether I care about googles so called invasion of privacy. It's all anonymous data as far as I know. And you do get good services out of it.
    It's not anonymous. You have one account for all services that contains your name, birth date, phone number, alternate email, phone type (if you're on Android), IP addresses you log with, your computer type, the browser you use. And this account is related to the the things you search (bank, interests, porn if you're into that, illnesses, etc), your emails and their content, your contacts, the videos you watch on YouTube, the search history on both Google and YouTube (and Google Play if you're on Android), the data you put on Google+, the sites you visit that have a G+ widget or Google Analytics, the sites you open after a search, your mouse position on the screen while you search (as far as I know), the comments you make on YouTube and Google+, etc.

    Not much anonymity...
    k72 likes this.
    08-10-2014 05:52 PM
  17. RavenSword's Avatar
    It's not anonymous. You have one account for all services that contains your name, birth date, phone number, alternate email, phone type (if you're on Android), IP addresses you log with, your computer type, the browser you use. And this account is related to the the things you search (bank, interests, porn if you're into that, illnesses, etc), your emails and their content, your contacts, the videos you watch on YouTube, the search history on both Google and YouTube (and Google Play if you're on Android), the data you put on Google+, the sites you visit that have a G+ widget or Google Analytics, the sites you open after a search, your mouse position on the screen while you search (as far as I know), the comments you make on YouTube and Google+, etc.

    Not much anonymity...
    I meant as far as info they give to advertisers. They do that to target ads, but the data doesn't have your name on it or whatever. They basically just go "hey, this guy seems to read a lot about coffee, let's suggest him a coffee maker." They don't identify you by name to advertisers though. That's what I meant by anonymous.

    And what does it really matter if google knows all that about you? It's not like there going to blackmail you or something? You really thing google cares about a single individual enough to do that. They care about the bigger pool of data more than anything.
    08-10-2014 06:30 PM
  18. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I meant as far as info they give to advertisers. They do that to target ads, but the data doesn't have your name on it or whatever. They basically just go "hey, this guy seems to read a lot about coffee, let's suggest him a coffee maker." They don't identify you by name to advertisers though. That's what I meant by anonymous.

    And what does it really matter if google knows all that about you? It's not like there going to blackmail you or something? You really thing google cares about a single individual enough to do that. They care about the bigger pool of data more than anything.
    I don't want anyone knowing that much about me let alone unscrupulous marketers.

    Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app
    dlalonde likes this.
    08-10-2014 06:45 PM
  19. kencaz's Avatar
    I meant as far as info they give to advertisers. They do that to target ads, but the data doesn't have your name on it or whatever. They basically just go "hey, this guy seems to read a lot about coffee, let's suggest him a coffee maker." They don't identify you by name to advertisers though. That's what I meant by anonymous.

    And what does it really matter if google knows all that about you? It's not like there going to blackmail you or something? You really thing google cares about a single individual enough to do that. They care about the bigger pool of data more than anything.
    I don't really care why they are doing it. I don't like that they are doing it at all... I don't need them pushing adds on me. If I need something I will find it myself.

    You give a company that much power and they are bound to abuse it.
    fatclue_98 and dlalonde like this.
    08-10-2014 07:30 PM
  20. RavenSword's Avatar
    I don't really care why they are doing it. I don't like that they are doing it at all... I don't need them pushing adds on me. If I need something I will find it myself.

    You give a company that much power and they are bound to abuse it.
    Ok, let's say that it is a cause for concern. What else are you going to use that's as good? Chrome is arguably the best browser, google search the best search, gmail the best email, google maps is the best map system, and google docs is slowly becoming the norm in slot of circles. So you can tell me that google is going to use all this info for evil and whatever, but then I'd ask you what services are worth giving up google for? Bing? It's good, but not google good. Outlook.com? It has a better aesthetic and design, but not as many spam and power features. I don't even know anyone with a outlook.com account, there all gmail. I like onedrive a lot and it's the one service I think is better than googles equivalent, but even MS is policing your photos. Chrome is better than IE, I'm sorry. And I'm not going to trust bing maps or apple maps.

    And that's the thing, google makes best in class services. And that makes them hard to leave. So really, people can say all they want how much the google stuff may bother them, but I'd doubt it's enough that they don't use those services. And most people don't even know or care.
    08-10-2014 08:59 PM
  21. kencaz's Avatar
    Ok, let's say that it is a cause for concern. What else are you going to use that's as good? Chrome is arguably the best browser, google search the best search, gmail the best email, google maps is the best map system, and google docs is slowly becoming the norm in slot of circles. So you can tell me that google is going to use all this info for evil and whatever, but then I'd ask you what services are worth giving up google for? Bing? It's good, but not google good. Outlook.com? It has a better aesthetic and design, but not as many spam and power features. I don't even know anyone with a outlook.com account, there all gmail. I like onedrive a lot and it's the one service I think is better than googles equivalent, but even MS is policing your photos. Chrome is better than IE, I'm sorry. And I'm not going to trust bing maps or apple maps.

    And that's the thing, google makes best in class services. And that makes them hard to leave. So really, people can say all they want how much the google stuff may bother them, but I'd doubt it's enough that they don't use those services. And most people don't even know or care.
    I do like Googles services, however, they are just prying to much into my stuff. I use chrome and bing on my pc but for my phone bing with cortana is just fine. I do have an outlook address and use it with Office as well as webmail. I am totally removing myself from gmail. I have had it since google launched, (back when you needed invites), but just getting to personal.

    Ondrive and Google drive to me are the same, accept for maybe AutoAwesome. I have been using Here-maps for awhile and it has never steered me wrong. I know that MS services will get much better as time goes on, I just hope they don't go the google route or let me opt out.j
    08-11-2014 12:16 AM
  22. RavenSword's Avatar
    I do like Googles services, however, they are just prying to much into my stuff. I use chrome and bing on my pc but for my phone bing with cortana is just fine. I do have an outlook address and use it with Office as well as webmail. I am totally removing myself from gmail. I have had it since google launched, (back when you needed invites), but just getting to personal.

    Ondrive and Google drive to me are the same, accept for maybe AutoAwesome. I have been using Here-maps for awhile and it has never steered me wrong. I know that MS services will get much better as time goes on, I just hope they don't go the google route or let me opt out.j
    I don't know, maybe I've just used google services for so long. It's weird to think of using bing instead of google (google is even in the dictionary as a verb for crying out loud.)

    As far as outlook goes, I do like the way it looks. But I do most email viewing on my phone and tablet, so I don't even get to see that nice design. That when what it does matters a lot more and how we'll it does it. And like I said, I don't know anyone who has a outlook email address. They're all gmail. And I'd be hesitant to put a outlook.com address on a business card. Many put hotmail (now outlook.com) into the same camp as yahoo mail. Where they only use it for their spam mail. And while outlook.com is a great email service I'm sure, there's still that association.

    As I said, onedrive I do like a lot. I just don't know how good it is on Mac. Obviously it'll work well on PC. and the apps work well.

    And as far as office goes, it's more fleshed out than google docs. But whenever someone wants to share or collaborate on documents, they seem to always use google docs.

    I think it's great that Microsoft is pushing services a lot more right now, but they have some obstacles to overcome and perceptions to shift.
    08-11-2014 12:59 AM
  23. dlalonde's Avatar
    To be honest there are two different answers to your reply. The first one is focused on the individual: if you're willing to pay that much to Google (it's not money but you're still paying it with the information you give them) just to be able to use their products, then it's your choice. But Google isn't a panacea. I don't have a Google account and I don't miss it. I do use their search engine but it is the only product I use.

    The second answer though is about the grand scale of things. Like I've previously said, most of us here have nothing to hide. We're not criminals or anything. But the fact remains that one single company holds so much information on millions of people around the world and are always yearning for more. That's when the danger starts.

    The obvious consequence if that the government can then tap into that information. This is no longer a truth that only aluminum hat wearing paranoacs talked about since the Snowden revelations. The NSA litterally has its nose everywhere.

    There's a reason why we as a society built a line that seperates people from the government and the police. It's because there was (and still are in many countries) abuses coming from up above. If we're thinning the line, it is a slippery slope.

    And that's not even counting the fact that EVERYTHING can be hacked. There's always someone smarter than the smartest of us. No matter how secure Google's servers are, they can be hacked and all the info you thought was in good hands could be in not so good hands at anytime.

    And I could go on.
    k72 likes this.
    08-11-2014 05:14 AM
  24. Alses's Avatar
    I agree, ashram. If you don't pay you can't expect privacy. If this is to change then use your free speech and your vote to change things. If you dont vote you dont get to complain. IMO.

    And now when we are talking about privacy, dont use tor to torrent, look at pornography or what ever. Im not running a tor relay so you can break the law or pleasure yourself.
    08-12-2014 05:47 AM
  25. dlalonde's Avatar
    For your first point, it depends on how the product is offered. If it's offered as a free product that doesn't invade your privacy, then that's what it should be. We should not be the only ones bound by the contract we agree to when we sign up.

    For your second part, I don't understand what you mean.
    08-12-2014 08:59 AM
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