08-17-2014 02:28 PM
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  1. kencaz's Avatar
    Although there was a positive outcome here... I still think E-mail should be private from anyone even service content providers. I personally am going to start using my MS account exclusively. I only hope MS is a little more on par with American Citizen Privacy Rights.

    http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...ype=blogs&_r=0
    08-05-2014 11:38 AM
  2. Great deal's Avatar
    08-05-2014 11:41 AM
  3. kencaz's Avatar
    Well, MS is at least fighting the gov request. Although they should know that MS has no authority to force data from property in another country even if they own it. They would have to follow the laws of that country. Just like they would if in the US.

    Google it seemed readily and voluntarily gave the information without request.
    08-05-2014 11:58 AM
  4. D M C's Avatar
    Seems good to me.

    Crime must be stop and for that some measure should be taken which not very convenient.

    I think you shouldn't have any problem with this unless you are also doing something which is against law..

    Anyone can gladly search through my all emails.
    I don't have any problem with that.
    08-05-2014 12:03 PM
  5. Great deal's Avatar
    Seems good to me.

    Crime must be stop and for that some measure should be taken which not very convenient.

    I think you shouldn't have any problem with this unless you are also doing something which is against law..

    Anyone can gladly search through my all emails.
    I don't have any problem with that.
    That is one perspective. I own 2 companies, if I have sensitive information exchanged between my engineering team and marketing team I don't want a 3rd party to see the information. The American government seem to make a big deal over the Chinese regarding IP, hacking and stealing information when the government is 'hacking' everything everywhere lol. Its not about hiding anything its about your right as an individual or a corporation to privacy. I think anyone would agree to email scans to stop crime but the thing is do you actually TRUST the government?

    If you look through history at the lies and manipulation then the answer is an emphatic no.
    jmshub, Captains and k72 like this.
    08-05-2014 12:23 PM
  6. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Seems good to me.

    Crime must be stop and for that some measure should be taken which not very convenient.

    I think you shouldn't have any problem with this unless you are also doing something which is against law..

    Anyone can gladly search through my all emails.
    I don't have any problem with that.
    By that logic, search warrants are useless except to those that are criminals. Therefore, we should do away with search warrants and due process, right? Would you like to share your email account and password with all of us since you have nothing to hide? Really think about what could go wrong if that were the norm.

    My point is there needs to be a balance and it needs to lean heavily towards individuals right to privacy. I'm not a criminal, but I also don't blindly trust other people, companies, or the government to use my personal information responsibly at all times (now or in the future). There are all kinds of ways that someone could make your life miserable by misusing or being careless with your data. For this reason, I don't use Gmail. It's not because I'm a criminal. It's because I just don't like the way they use your data for aggressive (intrusive in my opinion) levels of advertising. Basically, I don't have any confidence that Google respects user's data or their right to privacy.

    Having said that, I certainly don't feel sorry for this guy for a few reasons...

    1) He is a pedophile. Enough said.
    2) He is super stupid. Who would be dumb enough to send child porn images through any email and especially gmail which tells you upfront that it is scanning all your data.
    3) What he was doing is VERY illegal, immoral, and harmful to others. Google cannot allow their services to be used for such blatant illegal activity any more than a bank can knowingly launder money for the mob. They have every right to protect themselves from this level of misuse. Even if they weren't scanning emails/images for advertising purposes, I feel that this level of automated scanning for highly illegal activity is justifiable.
    Great deal and wpgeek820 like this.
    08-05-2014 12:31 PM
  7. kencaz's Avatar
    Seems good to me.

    Crime must be stop and for that some measure should be taken which not very convenient.

    I think you shouldn't have any problem with this unless you are also doing something which is against law..

    Anyone can gladly search through my all emails.
    I don't have any problem with that.
    They would not stop at that point though. What if they started targeting people for their political affiliation? What if they wanted someone from a political party not to get elected. They could easily plant images or someone could hack someones e-mail and plant images. Then what recourse or defense does the person have? Stranger things have happened... Look at what the IRS is doing now!
    k72 likes this.
    08-05-2014 12:42 PM
  8. dlalonde's Avatar
    Truth be told, in itself, it's horrible. And I know people have this rhetoric of "well I have nothing to hide" but this doesn't cut it.

    The question everyone should ask themselves is would they let the police read their mail and come into their houses randomly and search through all their stuff, their bank records, their underwear drawer, etc. just because it makes the police's job easier? Most would answer no.

    But the obvious answer to that is "well Gmail is free". No it's not, you pay with your personal data. It's a question of knowing about it and accepting it or not.

    I chose outlook.com in part because they don't go through your emails for ads or anything else. Give me ads so I can use your service for free, I'll gladly abide. But keep your nose out of my personal stuff.

    I'm happy they caught a pedophile. But again, if the police was to randomly search everyone's houses, they'd catch criminals. Is that a good enough reason to accept such a drastic measure? The stakes are way too high to answer yes.
    Last edited by dlalonde; 08-05-2014 at 02:54 PM. Reason: typo
    08-05-2014 02:29 PM
  9. MikeyBan's Avatar
    Exactly.
    08-05-2014 02:48 PM
  10. D M C's Avatar
    First I agreed on trust part.
    But I do trust Google, MS and Gov't because their is nothing special for them in my emails not because I don't have something to hide.
    Everybody have something to hide.
    And I also agreed that for some people(politicians, businessman etc..............and criminal, terrorist etc)
    It is a big problem for them.

    And I also agreed on balance part.
    But how? Easier to said but very hard to done.

    But the most stupid thing I find is that users believe in MS that do not shares your info.
    Every American companies share your info with NSA, gov't etc
    Same thing done by Chinese companies(I heard somewhere that Xiomi sending your personal data to Chinese gov't).
    You are the most stupidest people who believe that American companies, Chinese companies do not share your info with gov't or any other part.
    MS also share your info with NSA.

    The relationship between internet and privacy is same as water and fire.
    Only few people can protect privacy.
    08-05-2014 08:47 PM
  11. FinancialP's Avatar
    Hmmm. Microsoft does the same thing. If I'm not mistaken, Microsoft actually provided the tech to Google and others to do the scanning.
    08-05-2014 10:05 PM
  12. josh715m's Avatar
    Hmmm. Microsoft does the same thing. If I'm not mistaken, Microsoft actually provided the tech to Google and others to do the scanning.
    I believe that all of this companies do this kind of thing one way or another, so in my opinion nobody should trust Google or Microsoft or whatever corporation.

    Look what they said about Osama having lots of porn and stuff, now who can assure me that this is true.... if at some point "you" become an inconvenience to one of the "guys" with power they will make sure you look as bad as possible, making you a terrorist or depraved so that no one will support you. Now, I not saying that this is the case but it's not impossible either.

    Don't you find suspicious all of the airplane "accidents"..... it's not only USA of course, there are some major players in the game and some history..

    It's getting scary how technology is being used to control people, I just hope that we (all the world) don't get to live in a movie like V for vendetta.

    A bit too dramatic maybe :S, no offense intended. Anyway still love technology specially Lumia phones :D
    Last edited by josh715m; 08-06-2014 at 01:10 AM.
    08-05-2014 11:08 PM
  13. Great deal's Avatar
    First I agreed on trust part.
    But I do trust Google, MS and Gov't because their is nothing special for them in my emails not because I don't have something to hide.
    Everybody have something to hide.
    And I also agreed that for some people(politicians, businessman etc..............and criminal, terrorist etc)
    It is a big problem for them.

    And I also agreed on balance part.
    But how? Easier to said but very hard to done.

    But the most stupid thing I find is that users believe in MS that do not shares your info.
    Every American companies share your info with NSA, gov't etc
    Same thing done by Chinese companies(I heard somewhere that Xiomi sending your personal data to Chinese gov't).
    You are the most stupidest people who believe that American companies, Chinese companies do not share your info with gov't or any other part.
    MS also share your info with NSA.

    The relationship between internet and privacy is same as water and fire.
    Only few people can protect privacy.
    Agree, however there are steps anyone can take to protect their information including:

    'Lastpass' for passwords
    'Duckduckgo' or 'startpage' as search engines
    'HTTPS everywhere' plugins for browsers
    'Boxcryptor' for cloud storage encryption (a MUST have for anyone who uses Onedrive IMO)
    'Tor browser' for anonymity.
    In IE set the browser to 'prompt you' for ALL cookies and you will quickly see how much and who collects information on each website you visit.
    'Sicher' app for secure messaging with self destruct feature and its free.

    In this day and age of hackers, thieves, governments, agencies, companies trying to manipulate/steal from everyone it makes sense to take precautions. Look at Adobe, millions of passwords stolen, announced today that Russians stole 1.2 BILLION usernames and passwords across hundreds of thousands of websites. Protect yourselves, protect OUR internet.
    Last edited by Great deal; 08-06-2014 at 11:33 AM.
    D M C, jmshub, EchoOne30 and 2 others like this.
    08-06-2014 04:47 AM
  14. D M C's Avatar
    Truth be told, in itself, it's horrible. And I know people have this rhetoric of "well I have nothing to hide" but this doesn't cut it.

    The question everyone should ask themselves is would they let the police read their mail and come into their houses randomly and search through all their stuff, their bank records, their underwear drawer, etc. just because it makes the police's job easier? Most would answer no.

    But the obvious answer to that is "well Gmail is free". No it's not, you pay with your personal data. It's a question of knowing about it and accepting it or not.

    I chose outlook.com in part because they don't go through your emails for ads or anything else. Give me ads so I can use your service for free, I'll gladly abide. But keep your nose out of my personal stuff.

    I'm happy they caught a pedophile. But again, if the police was to randomly search everyone's houses, they'd catch criminals. Is that a good enough reason to accept such a drastic measure? The stakes are way too high to answer yes.
    For you and those MS Fans who live in delusion that MS do not look into your emails.

    Microsoft News | Just Like Google, Microsoft Is Also Scanning Outlook And OneDrive For Explicit Child Abuse Images
    08-06-2014 09:43 AM
  15. dlalonde's Avatar
    For you and those MS Fans who live in delusion that MS do not look into your emails.

    Microsoft News | Just Like Google, Microsoft Is Also Scanning Outlook And OneDrive For Explicit Child Abuse Images
    Careful there, no delusion here my friend. A mere mistake in my previous post.

    Google automatically scans all emails for ads and other things. Microsoft does not. Apparently, they do for illicit images and content. True I didn't know it for sure but I kind of thought they did anyway. Nevertheless, it's very different than Google approach (even though I disagree with both methods).

    Scanning emails for illicit images is different. Automatic scripts looking for child porn is different than actively scanning and recording what is found to sell you ads.

    To me, Microsoft's way to do it is a lesser evil than Google. The best way would be for everyone in the world to have their own private email address but that won't happen anytime soon.
    GrayW0lf, heat 33330 and xandros9 like this.
    08-06-2014 10:46 AM
  16. ashram's Avatar
    i have zero expectation of privacy with free email services. Now if I were paying for it, then I would be very upset over email scanning regardless of the reasoning.
    D M C likes this.
    08-06-2014 11:04 AM
  17. dlalonde's Avatar
    i have zero expectation of privacy with free email services. Now if I were paying for it, then I would be very upset over email scanning regardless of the reasoning.
    Absolutely.
    08-06-2014 12:16 PM
  18. AG VK's Avatar
    Careful there, no delusion here my friend. A mere mistake in my previous post.

    Google automatically scans all emails for ads and other things. Microsoft does not. Apparently, they do for illicit images and content. True I didn't know it for sure but I kind of thought they did anyway. Nevertheless, it's very different than Google approach (even though I disagree with both methods).

    Scanning emails for illicit images is different. Automatic scripts looking for child porn is different than actively scanning and recording what is found to sell you ads.

    To me, Microsoft's way to do it is a lesser evil than Google. The best way would be for everyone in the world to have their own private email address but that won't happen anytime soon.
    Perhaps your English isn't very good, but your post really doesn't make sense.

    Both companies use automated scanning. Both read your emails. Simple. Where's the difference?

    What they do with the emails AFTER reading them is no concern of mine; the very act that they read them at all is the privacy violation here and MS is as guilty as Google.
    peacefulberry likes this.
    08-06-2014 01:29 PM
  19. dlalonde's Avatar
    No my English is fine but I didn't write my previous post in one go which explains some of the inconsistencies.

    What I'm saying is that, although I disagree with scanning emails altogether, Google scans them to actually use its content to sell you ads. Which means that they take this information they gather in your emails, saves them in a database that contains all other information they have about you and uses it to sell you ads. MS on the other hands does scan the emails but to find inappropriate content such as child pornography but does not use that information to make money.

    Like I said, I don't agree with it but it's not as bad as Google using the information to make money.
    GrayW0lf likes this.
    08-06-2014 02:16 PM
  20. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Both companies use automated scanning. Both read your emails. Simple. Where's the difference?
    The difference is one is scanning for highly illegal content because they have a legal obligation to ensure their servers are not hosting or being used to transmit that kind of content. The other is doing the same, but then going on to scan further, build a profile from your personal data, and use it for marketing/profit purposes.

    For Microsoft, the automated scanning is a necessary expense and part of the overhead of doing business while complying with the law. They have no real incentive to become more intrusive since this is not part of their business revenue stream. Microsoft makes its money selling software, services, and devices.

    For Google, the automated scanning is how they make their money (almost exclusively) and they have every incentive to be as intrusive as they can get away with in order to increase profits.
    GrayW0lf and heat 33330 like this.
    08-06-2014 02:16 PM
  21. kencaz's Avatar
    Perhaps your English isn't very good, but your post really doesn't make sense.

    Both companies use automated scanning. Both read your emails. Simple. Where's the difference?

    What they do with the emails AFTER reading them is no concern of mine; the very act that they read them at all is the privacy violation here and MS is as guilty as Google.
    The difference is that Google voluntarily gives up that information where MS takes them to court and fights for it's costumers like they are now...

    I am aware that if you don't want something on the internet reaching the wrong hands then only recourse is not to put it out there. However, I would trust MS over Google or Apple any day.
    Great deal likes this.
    08-06-2014 02:23 PM
  22. peacefulberry's Avatar
    My take on this is simple: How much does it cost to host billions or even trillions of emails, attachments, and other data that ppl have attached to their email accounts? Now, how many customers actually pay for their email accounts? Not very many. So how do we expect the companies that absorb this enormous cost to actually maintain their "free" services? Ads! It's simple...if you want an ad free service, you should expect to pay for it. If not, someone/something else will.

    Believe it or not, msft uses relative ads with their own advertising ids. (Check your privacy settings in 8.1 to see ad id settings.) And just like Google, they allow you to opt out of this type of advertising. Messaging, email, applications, and social media sites all use relative ads. Register a domain and host your own email accounts if you don't want 3rd party involvement. (Sorry but it's the truth. )
    colinkiama likes this.
    08-06-2014 03:12 PM
  23. bsayegh's Avatar
    If thy search my emails and start advertising to me based on it, then I am against it. I don't want them using it to their advantage. On the other hand, if they search emails specifically to catch sexual predators or criminals, then I fully support it. I have nothing to hide and don't care if they search mine.
    colinkiama likes this.
    08-06-2014 03:17 PM
  24. colinkiama's Avatar
    LOL I don't get what the big deal is. So what if someone can see my e-mail messages, images and other media. I have nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal. If you have nothing to hide then don't be worried about something like this.
    08-06-2014 03:20 PM
  25. quantum1990's Avatar
    LOL I don't get what the big deal is. So what if someone can see my e-mail messages, images and other media. I have nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal. If you have nothing to hide then don't be worried about something like this.
    I agree with this. What I don't like is the fact that these people know every single thing about my life. Combine email scanning with spying on phonecalls/texts, following you around the street on CCTV, access to your entire internet history etc etc. It's all a scary thought, not because I have anything to hide, but because if it's like this now what is it going to be like in the future? Heck they probably even have a way of scanning the contents of physical letters without opening them!
    08-06-2014 03:26 PM
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