03-23-2015 01:40 PM
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  1. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    ...
    You can't bring Apple into this argument. They have carved out a market of their own, a market which is perfectly happy to buy their over priced iPhone. They won't budge but they also only form the 15% of global share.

    As for Motorola, yes they were a company who were losing market share and they needed something to draw attention to themselves. And they did. They certainly did. Every review website mention them as an alternative budget phones while reviewing lower priced phones. Even we, people at wpcentral forums are comparing them to upcoming Nokia phones. Couple that with the might of android ecosystem behind them, I can certainly see them doing better in future.

    As for dedicated imaging team, their worth is rather proven in flagships like 1020, 1520 and 930 with pureview technology and even there they ruined it with their decisions to not put SD slot and last year chipsets while pricing them as high as same year's flagships.

    About China and local OEMs being sold in regions with low cost, you need to know that Microsoft's push with low end phones is exactly meant for these regions. And it isn't like Nokia manufactures its phones in America. Nokia have factories in China as well like every other OEM. Now, this is a market where even Samsung has taken a Year on year loss in Q2 2014 because of Huawei, Xiaomi, Lenovo and other local manufacturers while Huawei has increased 10% year on year share in market. Now the budget phones of these companies won't come with any omissions at all if you look at their product portfolio. Also, the verge's article on Samsung's YoY loss in Q2 states that "Samsung is a company which build its recognition and market share on releasing high spec'd phones with better benchmarks and better screens at a lower price than their competition." Now tell me why can't Microsoft Mobile do the same particularly when they are trying to fight in this cut throat segment and region.

    About RAM, I admitted that 512 is more than enough. And I know that iPhone 4s has 512MB RAM but, casual games like subway surfer and temple run 2 don't take months to launch in App Store only to have a 1gig RAM moniker and then again take months to finally be compatible with 512gig.

    Truth is we can go on and on but fact is what I'm suggesting is bold and a little reckless but it might earn them market share and then some recognition. Or they can go the way they are going for last three years.
    08-09-2014 10:52 AM
  2. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Guys, you're arguing over nothing. Android is an operating system, not a company selling phones & tablets. Each OEM that uses Android is ultimately responsible for their business model. Samsung & LG are huge conglomerates in South Korea that are diverse enough to sell at a preordained loss because of huge profits elsewhere. This is nothing new. Most US car makers sell their econo-boxes at a loss because their light-truck lines pick up the slack. I know CAFE is another reason they do this but that's another matter.

    Anyway, this digression started because I suggested putting a 720p display and upping the RAM on the 625 to match up favorably with the Moto G. Since I'm not privy to Microsoft's P&L sheets, I figured this wouldn't impact the ledger too much.
    Visa Declined likes this.
    08-09-2014 12:18 PM
  3. colinkiama's Avatar
    Guys, you're arguing over nothing. Android is an operating system, not a company selling phones & tablets. Each OEM that uses Android is ultimately responsible for their business model. Samsung & LG are huge conglomerates in South Korea that are diverse enough to sell at a preordained loss because of huge profits elsewhere. This is nothing new. Most US car makers sell their econo-boxes at a loss because their light-truck lines pick up the slack. I know CAFE is another reason they do this but that's another matter.

    Anyway, this digression started because I suggested putting a 720p display and upping the RAM on the 625 to match up favorably with the Moto G. Since I'm not privy to Microsoft's P&L sheets, I figured this wouldn't impact the ledger too much.
    Lumia 730
    08-09-2014 12:24 PM
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Lumia 730
    No, L625. I've not read anywhere that the 730 will support LTE as the 625 does.

    Nokia Lumia 625 specs
    08-09-2014 06:06 PM
  5. desitunez's Avatar
    Agree with Op , look back at Samsungs Galaxy S2-3-4 , Nexus phones , LG G2 , Moto etc , Sony handsets and even HTC they all bounced back cause they had great hardware . when Galaxy S2 was being released users didn't even knew what android was.

    That's how they became popular brand.
    08-09-2014 06:17 PM
  6. wiggum15's Avatar
    I completely agree, hardware is the no 1 problem of WP nowadays. Just look at the 630 (lacks to many features for the price, people will buy Android phones instead) the 730 (nothing special for the price, too big, screen resolution to low) or the 930 (it has no glance and no notification led, it's too expensive and only for WP nerds) !
    The HTC M8 WP will be exclusive to a obscure us carrier, fu** that and you can't trust HTC with WP support.
    If this situation is not going to change, WP will die !!
    08-09-2014 06:20 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Agree with Op , look back at Samsungs Galaxy S2-3-4 , Nexus phones , LG G2 , Moto etc , Sony handsets and even HTC they all bounced back cause they had great hardware . when Galaxy S2 was being released users didn't even knew what android was.

    That's how they became popular brand.
    Huh? Verizon and the original Moto Droid were what put Android on the map.
    Visa Declined likes this.
    08-09-2014 07:07 PM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I completely agree, hardware is the no 1 problem of WP nowadays. Just look at the 630 (lacks to many features for the price, people will buy Android phones instead) the 730 (nothing special for the price, too big, screen resolution to low) or the 930 (it has no glance and no notification led, it's too expensive and only for WP nerds) !
    The HTC M8 WP will be exclusive to a obscure us carrier, fu** that and you can't trust HTC with WP support.
    If this situation is not going to change, WP will die !!
    Obscure US carrier? Unless you're outside the USA, that is the most ridiculous statement on this thread. Verizon is the largest US network with the most subscribers.
    08-09-2014 07:09 PM
  9. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    The verge's Review of l630 and l930: http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/8/4/...mia-630-review

    Warren made some good hardware comparison points for both phones not only with existing Nokia phones but others. Exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. A good OS let down by half baked hardware efforts at both extremes of price segment.
    And this is exactly the reason why we need the market to be flooded with a plethora of windows phones by different OEMs because you never know what might struck chord with the public.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    08-09-2014 09:36 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The verge's Review of l630 and l930: http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/8/4/...mia-630-review

    Warren made some good hardware comparison points for both phones not only with existing Nokia phones but others. Exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. A good OS let down by half baked hardware efforts at both extremes of price segment.
    And this is exactly the reason why we need the market to be flooded with a plethora of windows phones by different OEMs because you never know what might struck chord with the public.
    Consider the source.

    Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app
    08-09-2014 10:05 PM
  11. wiggum15's Avatar
    The Lumia 630 looks and feels great for a low-end phone, but the compromises with display brightness, storage, and cameras make it hard to recommend against strong Android competition from the Moto G and Moto E.
    I totally agree, they should have given the 630 at least a proximity sensor (AND GLANCE), a cheap front facing camera and a cheap LED flash for the main camera.
    Maybe that would make the phone 20$ more expensive but really, they try to sell it in America and Europa, nobody there cares about 20$ !
    That way they would have a good phone that would sell for 150$ in stores.
    Now they have a bad phone that sells for 130$...wow, Nokia/MS are genius !

    The 930 is a fail of epic proportions, HOW...HOW can you release you High-end device without a essential feature that ever cheap x20 lumia has...GLANCE SCREEN !
    08-10-2014 05:01 AM
  12. colinkiama's Avatar
    No, L625. I've not read anywhere that the 730 will support LTE as the 625 does.

    Nokia Lumia 625 specs
    Lumia 735
    08-10-2014 05:06 AM
  13. colinkiama's Avatar
    The 820 is actually the most balanced windows phone to date. Besides battery life, what is missing that is essential to you?
    08-10-2014 05:09 AM
  14. Visa Declined's Avatar
    08-10-2014 05:26 AM
  15. ShreyansShah's Avatar
    Lumia 735
    R u CEO of Nokia or something?
    U r saying about a phone they don't have in works yet.
    08-10-2014 05:35 AM
  16. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    Sales in the high end segment are so low. I think Microsoft has to create the demand first with their own flagship phones.

    In the low end they did it, the demand for Lumias attracted many OEMs.
    Shhhhhhh........Don't tell that to Apple. People will buy high end phones, but they have to be there to start with! And if all MS does is make entry level, the whole brand is tainted. TMO/MetroPCS has nothing other than the new 635 and closeout 521.
    08-10-2014 01:21 PM
  17. spaulagain's Avatar
    Shhhhhhh........Don't tell that to Apple. People will buy high end phones, but they have to be there to start with! And if all MS does is make entry level, the whole brand is tainted. TMO/MetroPCS has nothing other than the new 635 and closeout 521.
    That's the issue, its not a lack of hardware choice, it's a lack of carrier support. Hopefully now with Microsoft in charge, they can throw some muscle at the carriers and get them to support a wide range of WP devices.
    08-10-2014 03:59 PM
  18. fatclue_98's Avatar
    That's the issue, its not a lack of hardware choice, it's a lack of carrier support. Hopefully now with Microsoft in charge, they can throw some muscle at the carriers and get them to support a wide range of WP devices.
    Shhhh! Don't tell the OP.

    Sent from my LG G-Pro via the WPCentral Android app
    08-10-2014 04:17 PM
  19. smoledman's Avatar
    Everything is an Achilles heel for Windows Phone:

    #1 - Microsoft name attached to it
    #2 - Live Tiles UI are not embraced by most consumers
    #3 - The hardware is not up to snuff
    #4 - the OS features are not up to iOS 8/Android L level
    #5 - the app gap is very real

    ​That's 5 huge strikes against it.
    08-10-2014 04:43 PM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Everything is an Achilles heel for Windows Phone:

    #1 - Microsoft name attached to it
    #2 - Live Tiles UI are not embraced by most consumers
    #3 - The hardware is not up to snuff
    #4 - the OS features are not up to iOS 8/Android L level
    #5 - the app gap is very real

    ​That's 5 huge strikes against it.
    I wouldn't count #3 for the simple reason that Nokia has the best smartphone cameras on the market right now and WP8/8.1 does not need 100 cores and 48 gigs of RAM to run as smooth as it does. You could probably drop #4 since you only need 3 strikes to get fanned.
    08-10-2014 05:05 PM
  21. smoledman's Avatar
    I wouldn't count #3 for the simple reason that Nokia has the best smartphone cameras on the market right now and WP8/8.1 does not need 100 cores and 48 gigs of RAM to run as smooth as it does. You could probably drop #4 since you only need 3 strikes to get fanned.
    I don't really care for baseball analogies. The bottom line is WP has so much going against it and very little for it. If you're going up to a person right now who's going down to an AT&T Wireless store to get a new phone how would you convince them that Windows Phone is better than the competition?

    BTW it's hyperbole to bring up 100 cores and 48GB of RAM when Lumia 920 is struggling to run WP8.1.
    08-10-2014 05:22 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I don't really care for baseball analogies. The bottom line is WP has so much going against it and very little for it. If you're going up to a person right now who's going down to an AT&T Wireless store to get a new phone how would you convince them that Windows Phone is better than the competition?

    BTW it's hyperbole to bring up 100 cores and 48GB of RAM when Lumia 920 is struggling to run WP8.1.
    WP8 is not for everybody. It's not a question of it being better than the competition, per se. It's more about what your particular needs are. It's true of any mobile OS when you get right down to it.

    As for the 920 struggling, I have one on DP and I don't see it struggling at all. Fact is, you're the first person I've heard of stating that.
    08-10-2014 05:31 PM
  23. spaulagain's Avatar
    Everything is an Achilles heel for Windows Phone:

    #1 - Microsoft name attached to it
    #2 - Live Tiles UI are not embraced by most consumers
    #3 - The hardware is not up to snuff
    #4 - the OS features are not up to iOS 8/Android L level
    #5 - the app gap is very real

    ​That's 5 huge strikes against it.
    That's a highly subjective list.

    #1 - While Microsoft name certainly has a stigma, it's also one the reasons I like WP, because its a Microsoft product.
    #2 - Not embraced? Live Tiles are a combination of widgets and app launchers, something every use has used. Maybe you mean Metro is not embraced which is also odd considering both iOS and Android have gone very Metro/Flat style.
    #3 - You're kidding right? WP has some of the best hardware both design and performance wise. Samsung Galaxy is probably the only truly better device from a hardware spec, and that's the flagship Android device, not the average device.
    #4 - Features with 8.1 Update 1 are on par with iOS8 and Android. That feature gap is disappearing if not gone. I've lists nearly 2 dozen features iPhone users don't have in this thread and there are more. Each OS has their benefits now, no clear winner.
    #5 - App gap is on far games a minute local apps now, still an issue but not the fabled app gap all the tech bloggers spout about.
    08-10-2014 09:43 PM
  24. smoledman's Avatar
    That's a highly subjective list.

    #1 - While Microsoft name certainly has a stigma, it's also one the reasons I like WP, because its a Microsoft product.
    #2 - Not embraced? Live Tiles are a combination of widgets and app launchers, something every use has used. Maybe you mean Metro is not embraced which is also odd considering both iOS and Android have gone very Metro/Flat style.
    #3 - You're kidding right? WP has some of the best hardware both design and performance wise. Samsung Galaxy is probably the only truly better device from a hardware spec, and that's the flagship Android device, not the average device.
    #4 - Features with 8.1 Update 1 are on par with iOS8 and Android. That feature gap is disappearing if not gone. I've lists nearly 2 dozen features iPhone users don't have in this thread and there are more. Each OS has their benefits now, no clear winner.
    #5 - App gap is on far games a minute local apps now, still an issue but not the fabled app gap all the tech bloggers spout about.
    Nothing on WP8.1 is as good as iOS 8 Continuity. That is just radically killer and a HUGE plus for Apple. Microsoft should have come out with that earlier. Oh and iOS 8 interactive notifications and replies. I bet Apple has that patented to hell.

    The app gap has as much to do with an app being much less quality & updated compared to iOS counterparts as not being in the Windows Store itself. This is much documented and true. Hell even Microsoft updates their own apps on iOS well before they do on Windows Phone!
    08-11-2014 12:11 AM
  25. Ordeith's Avatar
    Microsoft has access to all of Apple's patents. It's why WP has rubber banding while android doesn't.
    08-11-2014 12:15 AM
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