Why Microsoft will never pull another windows phone 7.8 disaster.

[Cleavitt76]

I know all that but the fact remains that decisions not to continue support are simply because they want more of your cash in their pockets by hoping you will buy their latest model instead, that's the point I am trying to make.

If that were all there was too it then you would have a good point, but just because you claim that your opinion is a "fact" doesn't make it so.

Until very recently Microsoft didn't even sell the hardware and the WP OS is free. How did MS profit from leaving WP7 owners behind? It makes no sense to claim that this is strictly a strategy to force people to buy a new phone. Is money a factor? Sure, but it has to do more with the resources required to maintain backwards compatibility and update firmware for all the different phone variants.

Also, just because a new OS comes out doesn't mean your phone is suddenly broken. They still work just as well as when they were new. If you want to hang on to your phone for a decade then by all means do it. Just don't expect to have the latest and greatest OS back-ported to your device. The line has to be drawn somewhere and 3 years is as good or better than any competitor is doing. Should this phone be able to run a modern phone OS too?

 

[Andrea988]

How did MS profit from leaving WP7 owners behind? It makes no sense to claim that this is strictly a strategy to force people to buy a new phone. Is money a factor? Sure, but it has to do more with the resources required to maintain backwards compatibility and update firmware for all the different phone variants.

Why must people insist on comparing this sort of issue with another completely different one? There is a whole world of difference between supporting a recent phone or OS than asking silly questions about if an old model should be made to run the latest OS.

Money is the ONLY real factor, and MS are renown for not supporting a lot of stuff over the years thus forcing people to buy the latest kit. Of course it makes sense. Do you think they would be pouring millions into Nokia if they could continue making the same profit from the phones that are already out there? Of course not! Why would they? It's simply more profitable to sell you a new phone. That a lot of people hate MS is well documented, it isn't difficult to work out why. It's fact, not opinion.

 

[colinkiama]

Why must people insist on comparing this sort of issue with another completely different one? There is a whole world of difference between supporting a recent phone or OS than asking silly questions about if an old model should be made to run the latest OS.

Money is the ONLY real factor, and MS are renown for not supporting a lot of stuff over the years thus forcing people to buy the latest kit. Of course it makes sense. Do you think they would be pouring millions into Nokia if they could continue making the same profit from the phones that are already out there? Of course not! Why would they? It's simply more profitable to sell you a new phone. That a lot of people hate MS is well documented, it isn't difficult to work out why. It's fact, not opinion.

But you have to realize that Microsoft don't need your money anymore. It's free for anyone to make a WP. Microsoft gets $0 profit from anything except the Lumia products.. They only need to rely on services now. But you are right, money is the main factor. Microsoft weren't getting enough money when the iPhones were released, they knew windows mobile wouldn't compete against the iPhone so they made wp7. Which could compete however iPhones and androids were getting way better hardware than wp7 could support so people to meet the demand they released wp8 which could compete with the androids and iPhones at the time in terms of hardware and now with 8.1 it can compete in terms of features. Yes you are right. Money was a factor but they didn't actually want us to be forced to the latest kit, they just wanted to stay relevant. Survive.

 

[Cleavitt76]

Why must people insist on comparing this sort of issue with another completely different one? There is a whole world of difference between supporting a recent phone or OS than asking silly questions about if an old model should be made to run the latest OS.

My point is that technology changes and things get left behind. EVERY tech company does this, but you keep acting like it's only MS. Apple does it with every new release of iOS in case you haven't noticed. Apple only has one phone per generation to keep updated and yet they leave out new features that aren't even related to hardware. If you are determined to find a conspiracy for profit you should start there.

BTW: supported and upgraded are not the same thing. A company can support your device with bug fixes and technical support. That doesn't mean they are obligated to constantly add functionality that wasn't there when you bought it. That certainly doesn't happen in other industries. There haven't been any free upgrades for my 2010 Toyota Tacoma. By your logic it should be a 2014 model by now. You seem to be making the argument that because it's software it should always be free to upgrade. Software development isn't cheap.

Money is the ONLY real factor, and MS are renown for not supporting a lot of stuff over the years thus forcing people to buy the latest kit. Of course it makes sense. Do you think they would be pouring millions into Nokia if they could continue making the same profit from the phones that are already out there? Of course not! Why would they? It's simply more profitable to sell you a new phone. That a lot of people hate MS is well documented, it isn't difficult to work out why. It's fact, not opinion.

Yes, money is the only real factor in business. I said it was about money in my previous post. However, that hasn't been your argument until now. You have been arguing that MS has been specifically trying to force everyone to buy a new phone for the sole purpose of making more profit.

Nobody is "forcing" you to upgrade your phone. This is where your whole argument falls apart. If you like your phone and you want to keep it forever then go right ahead. Don't expect it to have all of the latest features though. At some point it is not economically feasible to keep every previous generation phone updated with all the current features. In other cases it isn't possible at all (significant hardware changes for example). Deciding not to dedicate development resources to back port cutting edge software onto 2 year old hardware that nobody is buying anymore is a financial decision, but it's not a conspiracy to ruin your phone. Stop acting like such a victim.

 

[Andrea988]

Yes, money is the only real factor in business. I said it was about money in my previous post. However, that hasn't been your argument until now. You have been arguing that MS has been specifically trying to force everyone to buy a new phone for the sole purpose of making more profit.

I'm not suggesting it's just MS, but it is MS we are debating in the thread or at least I thought it was. The point is MS have probably reached more people than most other companies on the planet and their record for support is notoriously poor.

I am not saying that they are specifically forcing everyone to buy a new phone, of course you can keep your old phone if you want to but the overall support is poorer than it should be for recent, rather than "old" products. We are all victims whether you like to admit it or not.

Don't you think the developers don't realise that certain functions won't work on the phone you are buying and magically they find a fix but surprise surprise, that fix won't work on your current model so if you want it you will have to buy a new one? Surely you are not that naive? They're already working on the next models before the latest ones are even released.

I'll give you an example. The LG G3 has just been released with a Quad HD screen. Guess what the next Samsung, Sony, HTC flagship models will have. Do you think they didn't have the ability to put Quad HD screens on this year's models if they had wanted to? Of course they could but they want to hold something back so you will go back and buy the next big thing next year.

They do this not to "force" you, but to effectively push you to buying the latest kit by not supporting the old stuff. They put the "latest innovations" next model when they could have introduced the tech into this one, or even the last one. For those with kids who want the latest kit that puts a lot of peer pressure on parents who can not necessarily afford it when kids see all their friends with the latest kit. We all now believe that the latest phone is a "must have".

There is only one reason this cycle goes on, with all the major players, not just MS - profit. However I admit I'm the one who is at fault here because I seem to be the only one who gives a damn about people rather than fat cat corporations. You're not asking me to stop being a victim, you're asking me to accept that I am one, i.e. that's just the way it is. Why should I (and millions of other people) accept something we don't think is acceptable? Are we not entitled to our opinion?

Incidentally I'm not sure what your Toyota has to do with anything but my son can still get parts for his 13 year old Volvo. By your logic, as I have said before perhaps we should scrap planes, trains and boats and build new ones every five years or so.

 

[salmanahmad]

The reason why wp 7 users were left behind is because there was a shift in the kernel. From windows CE to NT. When you look at 7.8 and 8.0 side by side, you don't really see a difference but when you see it in motion, that's when you see a change. CE only supported single core processors and isn't that secure compared to NT. NT is the future. Multi core processors, better security, more Ram, more efficient, more API's more Everything! If the kernel stayed in CE, we would still be using slow scorpions while the others are using snapdragon 800s etc. Not a good future is it?

Why Microsoft won't do another .8 fiasco is due to how all their products are on the NT kernel. Xbox One, windows 8.1 windows 8.1 RT, windows phone 8.1. In the heart of these products is the NT kernel. Do you know why? Universal Apps! Genius! I can have an app for all of these platforms that are catered for the screen size and experience. I can pay for one app and have it on every platform. This is what Microsoft wanted. This is the future. And if it wasn't for the NT kernel, windows phone wouldn't be where it is today. Microsoft aren't going to do another .8 in a while. In technology, that's probably like 3/4 years or something. But that doesn't mean that older devices won't be missing features of course.

So if you're scared of thereshold meaning 8.0 devices will be abandoned, don't be. Microsoft have done what they needed to do, don't be afraid. 520s are available from ?50 in where I live. And if your still on contract, don't be afraid to get an 8 device, join the new revolution. One Microsoft! :excited: (wow that's so cheesy)

Microsoft also says that they will provide support for Windows Phone 8.1 till 2016, which is nice.

But sadly there is a device that has lost support and updates, the HTC 8S.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Andrea988]

Microsoft also says that they will provide support for Windows Phone 8.1 till 2016, which is nice.

It's nice but it could be better.

 

[colinkiama]

It's nice but it could be better.

Technology moves fast. What do you expect. It's not like you won't be able to use your phone anymore.

 

[Andrea988]

Technology moves fast. What do you expect. It's not like you won't be able to use your phone anymore.

I expect better.

You know, the trouble with most of you younger people is you don't know any different. Years ago nobody would have touched a product that wasn't likely to be supported after three years, you could get spares for anything years later.

Now you don't know any different and you all believe that it can't be done (decent support for a decent length of time). Nothing could be further from the truth - do you think trucks, trains, planes, subways, ships and their supporting technology all have to be scrapped because the software and hardware they use to operate them is over three years old? Do you think military hardware has to be re-kitted out every three years to avoid failing because hackers and terrorists know how to beat it? WAKE UP!

The ONLY reason for this short window of support is because MS and every other major corporation want YOUR money in THEIR bank.

 

[Dr_8820]

Microsoft also says that they will provide support for Windows Phone 8.1 till 2016, which is nice.

But sadly there is a device that has lost support and updates, the HTC 8S.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Don't forget about the Lumia 810, that phone was put out to pasture a mere 5 months after release...a Nokia phone that won't even get Nokia software updates.

 

[colinkiama]

Don't forget about the Lumia 810, that phone was put out to pasture a mere 5 months after release...a Nokia phone that won't even get Nokia software updates.

People with the 810 can get 8.1 GDR 1. It doesn't need the Nokia software updates to function.

 

[Dr_8820]

We are talking officially, which is keeping with the theme of this thread.... not everyone will be joining the developer program just to upgrade. Once again, with staying on the topic of this thread, the Nokia Lumia 810 has not and will not get updated from 8.0 to 8.1. It will not get Black, it will not get Cyan. It had be done the exact way that Microsoft did with 7.8.

Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

[colinkiama]

We are talking officially, which is keeping with the theme of this thread.... not everyone will be joining the developer program just to upgrade. Once again, with staying on the topic of this thread, the Nokia Lumia 810 has not and will not get updated from 8.0 to 8.1. It will not get Black, it will not get Cyan. It had be done the exact way that Microsoft did with 7.8.

Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

lol this has nothing to do with microsoft. That is nokia an t-mobile's fault. T-mobile said the phone is EOL however Microsoft never made it impossible to update to 8.1. There is still away to update just not with firmware. This is a different situation compared to 7.8. Microsoft did not make the phone obselete

 

[Andrea988]

lol this has nothing to do with microsoft. That is nokia an t-mobile's fault. T-mobile said the phone is EOL however Microsoft never made it impossible to update to 8.1. There is still away to update just not with firmware. This is a different situation compared to 7.8. Microsoft did not make the phone obselete

How do you work that out? it's Microsoft's OS! They must have some responsibility for it. Surely Nokia and MS could have pushed it to other vendors, there are hundreds of others around the world!

 

[FinancialP]

Angry much? This really has nothing to do with being a "blind supporter" or a "shill". It is about having realistic expectations of cutting edge technology as well as some knowledge of that technology.

First of all, the Lumia 800 was released in October of 2011 and it's last major update to WP 7.8 was in January of 2013. So it was supported for 15 months. The fact that you bought yours a few days before WP 8 was officially released, which is a year after the Lumia 800 hit the market, doesn't take away from it's actual lifecycle. Furthermore, your Lumia 800 didn't suddenly break when WP 8 came out.

More importantly, this occurs in any fast moving area of technology. If you think this is unique to MS you are far more blind than any of us. Apple actually does this for the iPhone with almost every new release of iOS. I'll use the iPhone 4 as an example, but every iPhone has a similar timeline.

The iPhone 4 was released June 24, 2010 and discontinued on October 4, 2011 (16 months). The white model was discontinued only 6 months after its initial release. That is the hardware life cycle. On the software side, the iPhone 4 can be updated to "iOS 7", but it won't be supported for iOS 8. However, I put iOS 7 in quotes because the version of iOS 7 that is supported on the iPhone 4 doesn't include most of the major features. For example, Siri, panorama camera, video facetime, turn by turn maps, and a whole bunch more features that were introduced in iOS 5, 6, and 7. Apple calls it "iOS 7", but it's missing most of the features of iOS versions 5, 6, and 7. How can that be? Is it the same iOS version or not? Shouldn't it be called iOS 4.x or 5.x or 6.x?

So to recap, when Apple releases an iOS version for previous generation devices that only contains a subset of the features that the new devices get, it's all good as long as they give each of those different versions of the OS the same version number. However, when MS does the same thing, but names the lesser featured version 7.8 and the new version 8.0 it's a total rip off because someone just bought their phone last week.

The smart phone market is moving very rapidly and these disruptions are bound to happen. At least MS is honest with their version numbers. Apple gives two different versions of their OS the same version number and gets a free pass because of the ignorance of the average consumer. Google isn't immune to this either. Who can even count all the phones that have been left behind because of Android updates that couldn't or wouldn't run properly on the previous generation hardware. Android is well known for that. Of the three big players, MS is actually doing a decent job at providing an upgrade path, with WP 7 to 8 being the only breaking exception so far.

Blatant lie or just a mistake on your part?

The iphone 4 was discontinued September 2013.

It didn't have siri due to a noise cancellation mic, and yes you can face time. The feature was introduced with the iphone 4, don't know how you missed that.

Seriously your facts are way off base.

 

[Dr_8820]

How do you work that out? it's Microsoft's OS! They must have some responsibility for it. Surely Nokia and MS could have pushed it to other vendors, there are hundreds of others around the world!

It's painfully obvious that he just doesn't get it, I'll let him keep making excuses for Microsoft.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

 

[colinkiama]

It's painfully obvious that he just doesn't get it, I'll let him keep making excuses for Microsoft.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

I do get it. They are upset that 810 was left behind and that Microsoft should have responsibility for it because it's their OS. Look at Android, this type of thing happens all the time. Even in pc's this happens. You say this because you are still mad about 7.8 but this is a different situation which occurs with many devices. Let it go.

 

[KSilcox]

Convergence.

 

[colinkiama]

Convergence.

Are you talking about 'Threshold'?

 

[KSilcox]

Are you talking about 'Threshold'?

Yes Threshold and beyond. All future MS OS's are working towards what Microsoft calls 'convergence'. The same experience across all your devices. That's what so exciting about the platform to me.