09-29-2014 06:14 PM
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  1. colinkiama's Avatar
    I blame MS. MS is too greedy. It wants everything! Just give up source code and give it to OEM like samsung, sony, lg, htc etc. Freedom always wins. Restriction is not answer.
    in my opnion. Microsoft should have gave WP to nokia. They know how to make a smartphone OS.
    08-27-2014 02:08 AM
  2. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    1. If you love or like this platform stop complaining and use the platform as is.
    Humble opinion. Nonsense. WP improvements are being driven by critics and requests by users all around the world. According to your theory initiatives like USERVOICE should not be in existence as they contain essentially complaints in forms of suggestions. The platform will never improve thanks to a bunch of compliant individuals.
    An ecosystem driven by fanboys will get old in no-time due to lack of critics and therefore lack of innovation (you buy it anyways bad or good...). We're not supporting football teams. We're paying to buy phones.


    2. Use official apps over third party apps more frequent.
    If only Nokia and Microsoft HAD what people need, i'd gladly avoid using apps from unknown developers who take my usernames, passwords without me even knowing who they are. Fact is, there isn't official nor third party applications for a lot of things.


    3. Don't be cheap support your favorite apps and games developers no matter what the cost.
    Sometimes it's not a matter of being cheap. For a start apps are missing. Example: I bought Pleco suite for 75 euros on Android (but paid directly on Pleco website, not with Google), I bought Hanping, i bought Docs to Go and i bought much else on Android.
    on WP i simply don't find things worth buying (and i have free vouchers too still unused). I bought Nextgen reader because it's worth every single penny. I bought a chinese dictionary and it sucks. The platform lacks, put simply. Quality of apps is simply miserable in the market. And apps that are free on Android (Angry birds in all their iterations for example) have to be paid on WP.

    4, Support your favorite OEM:s.

    In the second quarter, Microsoft's smartphone shipments dropped to 7.4 million units from 8.2 million in the same period of 2013. At the same time, the Windows Phone global market share fell from 3.4% to to 2.5%

    Is MSFT is to blame for this decrease or would you blame the Windows Phone community?
    Market, since its inception is consumer driven. If you try to impose something on consumers and you're so lucky they like it you may get away with it (Apple and its closed fruit called ecosystem). If you try to impose something that is incomplete and lacking to your users (Windows RT, WP) you have consumers looking elsewhere. So i am confident Microsoft is not making customers happy. There is also an unrecorded but active churning of users from Windows 8 to various versions of Linux. It's still early to speak about this but it's happening and there is a variety of reasons for this.

    Bottom line: A good phone costs 700 euros. I don't buy things to "Support OEMs" for a hobby. I buy a phone because i need it. Then, secondarily i appreciate the tech behind it but my goal is productivity.

    Like me, all other professionals (non fanboys), non OEM-driven users who need a device to work, which apparently are millions.

    My humble two cents is the WP sales are freefalling because A) Microsoft is slow and doesn't listen, B) The OS has been unoficially in a permanent Beta forever (also when it's not called beta because it's never complete), C) It's 4 years and i have to remind everyone, once again, that WP doesn't allow a fair bunch of users to type in their language because it lacks basic inputs and won't allow you to amend Office files. This while all others use "normal OS'" that have split screen, real multitasking (some even a functional pen to go), plentiful office suites, total, global integrated functions within apps (you can transfer files from most third party apps in Android and new apps are often added in the list of shareable...Microsoft being limited to a few things, normally belonging to Microsoft itself, which is again what users don't want).

    BTW: Huawei has just dropped support for WP because "They have been losing money for two years". Living between Taiwan and China i think i know why.
    Last edited by EC Translating Services; 08-27-2014 at 03:25 AM.
    08-27-2014 03:04 AM
  3. Ian Too's Avatar
    in my opnion. Microsoft should have gave WP to nokia. They know how to make a smartphone OS.
    I understand the sentiment, but really? Didn't Nokia have Symbian and weren't they circling the drain before they signed on with WP?

    It's clear that only Apple has the might to succeed with a single OEM OS and that only because they got in first. Having a cult-like following helps too, though that appears to be slipping.

    Not only is Windows Phone Microsoft's operating system, but only they could have built it because only they had the Windows CE and NT kernels to build upon.

    When it came to designing the user interface, Microsoft had courage and imagination enough to do something different from the start; something good enough that the designers at Nokia left it largely untouched and something the designers at Google failed to do. What's more, the implementation of the live folders shows that that spark of ingenuity is still there.

    Finally, the clear superiority of the M8 for Windows over it's Android cousin is difficult to explain if the Windows Phone team had done a bad job. The fact that they were able to adapt their code to accommodate the dot view case shows they are fleet-footed too.

    So please, while the heart gets to set the destination, it's head's job to have the hand on the tiller.
    08-27-2014 03:34 AM
  4. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I understand the sentiment, but really? Didn't Nokia have Symbian and weren't they circling the drain before they signed on with WP?

    It's clear that only Apple has the might to succeed with a single OEM OS and that only because they got in first. Having a cult-like following helps too, though that appears to be slipping.

    Not only is Windows Phone Microsoft's operating system, but only they could have built it because only they had the Windows CE and NT kernels to build upon.

    When it came to designing the user interface, Microsoft had courage and imagination enough to do something different from the start; something good enough that the designers at Nokia left it largely untouched and something the designers at Google failed to do. What's more, the implementation of the live folders shows that that spark of ingenuity is still there.

    Finally, the clear superiority of the M8 for Windows over it's Android cousin is difficult to explain if the Windows Phone team had done a bad job. The fact that they were able to adapt their code to accommodate the dot view case shows they are fleet-footed too.

    So please, while the heart gets to set the destination, it's head's job to have the hand on the tiller.
    while i agee with you,i must also agree with Colinkiama, Nokia did make MeeGo,Maemo and symbian
    why they failed is the reason WP succeeded,imho they should make WP9 with MeeGo stuff etc
    Meego would have killed off android if Elop hadnt given up
    so would have symbian if s60 v3 was released before android 2.2
    though we have one thing to be thankful for,Nokia/MS based alot of the design etc of apps on Meego as found on the nokia N9 and also a bit of symbian like functions
    colinkiama likes this.
    08-27-2014 03:49 AM
  5. jomarr's Avatar
    1. If you love or like this platform stop complaining and use the platform as is.
    - I agree partly. But we still should address to Microsoft the problems we encounter.

    No one complains = Microsoft thinks there's no room for improvement

    This is the reason I keep complaining on Xbox Music in uservoice and in their app rating. I don't say "Fix this, you suck M$!", I tell them what the problem is and how it's frustrating


    2. Use official apps over third party apps more frequent.
    - I do although I am tempted to use 6Tag instead of the BETA.

    3. Don't be cheap support your favorite apps and games developers no matter what the cost.
    - I do buy paid apps, but don't count on me paying for extra "coins" for games. When it's over for the day, IT'S OVER. But that's just me

    4, Support your favorite OEM:s.
    - I already am. Starting on Windows Phone, I bought Office 365 for my PC and Android Tablet (Eventually I hope they'll support it), then get Windows 9.

    In the second quarter, Microsoft's smartphone shipments dropped to 7.4 million units from 8.2 million in the same period of 2013. At the same time, the Windows Phone global market share fell from 3.4% to to 2.5%.

    Is MSFT is to blame for this decrease or would you blame the Windows Phone community?

    Of course they are the one to blame. Again, MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING. They need to make a contract for the people in the spotlight (the phone sellers) at carriers that they should do a fair judgement with phones and not persuade WP away. They should also be knowledgeable of the product. The phone will not sell if the sellers do not make anything out of it. I'm not from the US but based on stories I read on WPCentral, there is a problem with the employees of carriers. Microsoft needs to address this issue and make them sign. I'm not saying they should put WP devices first but make a fair and unbiased judgement.

    Anyways, they didn't release a flagship except for the Icon (930) which we know the release was a big *** mess. While WP went down this quarter, I think it's still impressive how WP still sold 7++Million phones considering the fact that they only released the 930 and the 630 this year which both didn't have much promotion. (The M8 was released last week so that doesn't count.)

    Tl;dr: Microsoft is not in the verge of going out of the mobile market, in fact we're just at the end of Chapter One (Windows Phone 7 was the preface
    ).. It's been silent but I know Nadella is planning something that will change the way we look at Windows ecosystem.
    08-27-2014 04:36 AM
  6. Pranshul Sood's Avatar
    such a low share and literally bad marketing strategies. The phone start screen in ads look so ugly that people form negative impressions. And these I'm talking about wp8.1 running devices. Microsoft most aggressively market their products.
    08-27-2014 04:50 AM
  7. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Excellent. But my point is this Laura.

    All my friends with Android and iPhone devices swarm the stores when a new device is announced.

    Been here at WP for a year haven't seen any swarm for any WP devices. NL930, HTC One 8, NL 1520.

    I haven't seen anyone swarm the stores in a year time. 90% of Droids and iPhone users upgrade when a flagship is announced.

    Not so for Windows Phone users.
    There isn't much to swarm in actual fact. Nokia devices are all alike in general. Good quality high level plastic slabs in different colors, some better than others. Design is top notch but reused in all sizes it diminishes the enthusiasm. I went to see 1520 because it was 6" and thought WP was ready for prime time...i spoke to someone and i got it as a gift (unrequested as i had just said "It looks nice, WP has made progresses" and in one week i had one...so i felt obliged to give an identical one to the person who gave it to me....which sold it after two or three weeks)

    Other manufacturers make subpar devices for most top level markets. Samsung doesn't make high level WP, HTC is restarting now (and i doubt it will last).


    Till a while ago WP couldn't support high res, bigger screens and it's only yesterday it started to allow 3 rows of tiles (while bigger devices would need also 3 row wide tiles) and had tons of other limitations.

    Android has everyone onboard (i don't like the Google method to be clear). This means variety of sizes, form factors, price ranges, performances, hardware, UIs etc. This "impression of lots of choice" and the hype surrounding devices that, ultimately, are all the same (since they share the same OS with different covers, conveys a marketing strategy where people don't think about Android anymore but focus on that part of hardware and form factor that makes the difference. Wow...a new graphic chip...wow a new octacore CPU (device will lag anyways as the software is unpolished and the platform fragmented)...wow a new SUPERMEGAMOLED Screen with 1 gigabillion Pixel resolution ........marketing does the rest.
    Example: New Galaxy Note 4.....it's like Galaxy 3 (usual outfashioned metal chromed inserts that make it look like an 80s Daewoo), same form factor, some improvements on the pen and on the Samsung-Android thing which now claims that "you write better". I may have to buy it for specific reasons, already knowing the pen will work exactly like the others, taking notes is possible but not always as 5.7" is still pretty small (as opposed to a surface 2/3 which can become an A4 sized page if you really want) etc. Still, lots of people will jump on it after having owned the Note 3 for less than 6 months (Italians are specialized in this...they change phone as often as they change panties which is pretty often)
    And people go.......choice and dyamicity + huge marketing (whose costs are paid with the crazy sales Android makes) fuel all this. + Android has something for everyone (if you are not paranoid like me and others about security and privacy and what's coming next) and that makes it a real flexible platform.

    Imagine Android as a wavy beach swept by a nice cool breeze full of people wearing colourful shorts, girls in bikini and plenty people surfing high on those waves. Next to them there are the iphone beachboys, elegantly sitting in their chaise longues and admiring the sunset while riding hipster bikes.

    WP is that standstill remote lake where occasionally a drop comes from sky (one update with 1 single new function all the others on the beach have had for years) and moves the water......wave propagates a bit but nothing really happens...the lake stays standstill....the people enjoying it are retired, older guys sleeping in the nearby cottages and enjoying the idea of exclusivity that may or may not be true.

    Now, the image is colourful and somewhat a bit too exaggerated but it does give the idea.
    Last edited by EC Translating Services; 08-27-2014 at 11:54 PM.
    08-27-2014 04:55 AM
  8. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    I do believe we should expect a huge advertising after Win/WP 9 launch.

    AFAIK MS right now is trying to get rid of Win 8: no ads almost (or probably completely), no tries to push to consumers/business etc. WP 8/8.1 somehow reminds the Desktop/Tablet OS, so I think this is the major reason why the phone system gets low advertising, mostly some reminding to not be completely forgotten.

    As WZOR mentioned, the advertising campaign budget for Win 9 (I believe WP 9 as well) is incredibly huge, so we just need to wait for a while ;)

    One thing you need to remember, is that MS has very big plans for its OSes.
    colinkiama and Karthik Naik like this.
    08-27-2014 04:57 AM
  9. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    1. If you love or like this platform stop complaining and use the platform as is.
    But I like to complain! :P

    Seriously speaking though. Without customer feedback of any sort MS would think they're doing well when they are not. They need to be told, along with OEMs when things go wrong. There's many people on here, including myself, who haven't exactly had the smoothest run with WP. On top of that the locked to carrier nonsense with regards to updating is rather painful.

    2. Use official apps over third party apps more frequent.
    I usually do and prefer to. Saying that, most are lacking features that exist on the other OSs. Who's at fault for that? The developer or MS? Probably both.

    3. Don't be cheap support your favorite apps and games developers no matter what the cost.
    That's being snide and it's not that straightforward. I'm not buying an app I can't try and if it's sub par I'm not going to buy it.

    4, Support your favorite OEM:s.
    Really? To many there is only one, Nokia. Doesn't exist anymore. Second, the other OEMs aren't releasing anything in the UK. So how do I support them? I also don't want low end handsets.

    In the second quarter, Microsoft's smartphone shipments dropped to 7.4 million units from 8.2 million in the same period of 2013. At the same time, the Windows Phone global market share fell from 3.4% to to 2.5%.

    Is MSFT is to blame for this decrease or would you blame the Windows Phone community?

    Your thoughts?
    My thoughts are this.

    MS has a long way to go. Apps and games are still missing. Features in the apps are missing. There's lots of garbage in the Store. The advertising has been dismal. The OS for the first year might as well been in beta as far as I'm concerned and what we have with WP8.1 is really what should have been released initially.

    On the hardware side nothing of any significance has been released this year that appeals to the masses and what's recently come out is carrier exclusive. Really useful when you want to increase your user base. Example - L930 not available in the US except as the Icon at Verizon. HTC WP M8 not available in the EU and currently carrier exclusive with Verizon. Hardware is 6 months old and if it has exclusive as long as the Icon then it won't show up here until next year. Very useful.

    What has made the numbers drop? It's two fold. Number of users have increased but they didn't on WP. Why? See what I wrote above. Why are people avoiding WP considering that we all think it's wonderful (well to some extent) is simply that their friends have something else, everyone else says WP is crap and it's still missing loads of apps, I think I may have mentioned that...

    Nothing is black and white in this situation. You have staff at stores who aren't trained to know WP so they steer people to Android or iPhone. You have journalist constantly bagging WP and MS in general (especially the lack of apps). Then you have MS's bad reputation from years ago still lingering.

    Take it from there.
    DoctorSaline and myfyp2 like this.
    08-27-2014 06:08 AM
  10. Michael Brooks5's Avatar
    I first bought a 620 last year some time and was dead excited with the fact it's a WP device. Windows and Nokia are the only companies which excite me when it comes to new devices. I recently cancelled my contract early to upgrade to a Lumia 930 which I was so happy with and still am dead impressed with the device. I love showing off all my beautiful images and everyone just loves the colour and depth of the images.

    I'm a bit disappointed with MS at the minute though, they keep making promises and not keeping to them. I'm still waiting on the new Xbox Music app which adds the wallpaper to the lock screen and a live tile when playing music. I will always happily wait it out though, because I have faith in what MS want to achieve.

    I haven't actually purchased any apps with my own money, but I have purchased them with my free vouchers which I received for upgrading to the 930 so in a way I have supported them. I hardly ever purchase apps unless I'm excited about what it has to offer and really find a need for it.
    08-27-2014 06:26 AM
  11. Stef8600's Avatar
    1. If you love or like this platform stop complaining and use the platform as is.

    2. Use official apps over third party apps more frequent.

    3. Don't be cheap support your favorite apps and games developers no matter what the cost.

    4, Support your favorite OEM:s.

    In the second quarter, Microsoft's smartphone shipments dropped to 7.4 million units from 8.2 million in the same period of 2013. At the same time, the Windows Phone global market share fell from 3.4% to to 2.5%.

    Is MSFT is to blame for this decrease or would you blame the Windows Phone community?

    Your thoughts?
    Both!
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    08-27-2014 07:03 AM
  12. psoham777's Avatar
    Bringing apps would take time. How old is windows phone & how much old are the other OS' like Android & iOS?
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-27-2014 07:20 AM
  13. 05Paris's Avatar
    Until MS changes the retail end of things they will never make it big in the cell phone industry. For example when you go into a non-MS store the last thing a sales person wants to sell you is a Windows based product even when you request it. There are a number of reasons for this: 1) the sales person is not knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable in presenting the product; 2) they would rather sell a product "everyone wants" regardless if it is not the best, let it be the customer's fault if it fails; 3) the sales person is pressured to sell services over of products; 4) the sales force has the mentality, "anything but MS, it's not cool."
    Karthik Naik and Kevin Rush like this.
    08-27-2014 07:46 AM
  14. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Bringing apps would take time. How old is windows phone & how much old are the other OS' like Android & iOS?
    WP7 2010
    WP8 2012

    How much time is needed? Should age matter? What are the issues getting apps on the system? Usually we're told it's due to user numbers above all else.
    myfyp2 likes this.
    08-27-2014 07:52 AM
  15. psoham777's Avatar
    We are seeing a growth in the number of apps, its slow but still, they are growing. Now many useful apps have been made available which was not the case before. We could just wait, or jump to iOS or Android
    08-27-2014 08:00 AM
  16. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    We are seeing a growth in the number of apps, its slow but still, they are growing. Now many useful apps have been made available which was not the case before. We could just wait, or jump to iOS or Android
    I know every country has a bit different needs but in general, people want the apps and games that their friends have and when I say same apps I mean completely, not half baked.

    To be competitive in an app centric system you need to have the same mainstream high profile apps as everyone else. Yes there will always be those apps that are specific to the platform but in the mainstream apps every ecosystem needs them otherwise you simply won't get the people on board and you can't be competitive.

    This is where WP fails.
    myfyp2 likes this.
    08-27-2014 08:11 AM
  17. ShinraCorp's Avatar
    1. I'm not complaining, I love WP however I can criticize it sometimes.
    2. I am except Youtube because F YOU GOOGLE.
    3.I don't have any favorite app or games, heck I barely game on my phone in the first place.
    4. Between Nokia, HTC and Samsung they're not that many to choose from (in Canada anyway).

    We can all agree that Microsoft is at part responsible for it, another part are the carriers who also barely advertise. They're next to no advertisements for Windows Phone. Sure they're product placements in music videos like Katy Perry and Jennifer Lopez but it's not like they say in the video " THIS IS THE LUMIA XXXX" so people are confused as to what the heck are they looking at (if they're even looking at the phone to begin with.)
    prasath1234 likes this.
    08-27-2014 08:14 AM
  18. kataria's Avatar
    I agree to your point
    The games or apps that are free in android are paid in windows store
    This leads to the loss of people in windows board !!!!
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-27-2014 08:14 AM
  19. psoham777's Avatar
    I know every country has a bit different needs but in general, people want the apps and games that their friends have and when I say same apps I mean completely, not half baked.

    To be competitive in an app centric system you need to have the same mainstream high profile apps as everyone else. Yes there will always be those apps that are specific to the platform but in the mainstream apps every ecosystem needs them otherwise you simply won't get the people on board and you can't be competitive.

    This is where WP fails.
    Forget about what's not in wp! Most of the apps available in wp are more stable as compared to Android or iOS. That's also a main reason that many android users turn to wp, out of the total wp users more than 27% previously owned an Android phone
    08-27-2014 08:20 AM
  20. psoham777's Avatar
    I agree to your point
    The games or apps that are free in android are paid in windows store
    This leads to the loss of people in windows board !!!!
    Well on many sites you get free android apps & games which are paid in google store, that's not the case with wp
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-27-2014 08:22 AM
  21. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    I blame MS. MS is too greedy. It wants everything! Just give up source code and give it to OEM like samsung, sony, lg, htc etc. Freedom always wins. Restriction is not answer.
    No, i say no because then its getting defragmented and ms his drive is side to the point of emptying our pockets is that every user is getting the same experience .
    Just like Droid, on one unit its a great experience and on the other its a hell and than people are going to say that wp sucks but its the hardware what really sucks......just like droid.
    Droid is good, needs a lot of resources but stil. Most problems are in the low-budget phones of droid....than look at wp in the low budget, its giving the user almost the same experience as on the high-end. They all work the same.
    08-27-2014 08:25 AM
  22. borasar's Avatar
    Excellent. But my point is this Laura.

    All my friends with Android and iPhone devices swarm the stores when a new device is announced.

    Been here at WP for a year haven't seen any swarm for any WP devices. NL930, HTC One 8, NL 1520.

    I haven't seen anyone swarm the stores in a year time. 90% of Droids and iPhone users upgrade when a flagship is announced.

    Not so for Windows Phone users.
    Have you heard of carrier exclusives? The phones you mentioned weren't as widely available as the phones your friends have. MS didn't convince the carriers to bring the 930 or 1520 to Canada, the last high-end device we saw was the 1020 and the one before that was the 920.

    Please take no offence, but I don't think you realize as to what the issue is. The issue is not with WP community as we are on on board, the issue is with MS, because they can't seem to get the house in order and release devices globally without exclusives and appeal to the majority it seems. They aren't marketing enough and to be honest the OS is great but still has a ways to go. How do you expect a phone to sell when music is still very much subpar after receiving numerous updates? How do you expect to gain business customers when the email functionality is still lacking and has been since 8.0.
    The reason for a drop in device shipments is MS and not the die-hard community that you are trying to address.
    08-27-2014 08:26 AM
  23. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Forget about what's not in wp! Most of the apps available in wp are more stable as compared to Android or iOS. That's also a main reason that many android users turn to wp, out of the total wp users more than 27% previously owned an Android phone
    My point is, I'm not 10 to 19 hanging out with my friends and they all have apps that I don't. This is the age group that MS has trouble cracking. Then you have the 20 somethings where fashion means a lot. WP isn't fashionable in most countries. The issues are many and varied but at least apps is something MS can manage. Image changes with acceptance.

    The reason I own an Android tablet is because there are apps I cannot get on WP that I want to use. There are also functions on Android that I find useful for me that WP doesn't have. Along with that, I've yet to see these 'unstable' apps you speak of. I've had more apps crash on WP than on Android so far.
    colinkiama and myfyp2 like this.
    08-27-2014 08:37 AM
  24. rdubmu's Avatar
    I will never be satisfied. I won't stop complaining about the app gap because it is real for me. I am not going to be quiet and complacent.

    Many third party apps like 6tag are light years better than the official app.

    I will use the 3rd party apps. What's funny is that some third party apps are better than the first party on other platforms. I will support the developers who make great apps but won't blindly support them.

    What is becoming a bigger issue then apps is there are no new phones coming out except for low end. If I have a choice between a 630, S5, or 5s, I am not getting the 630. If they had a 930 or similar device I would be much more compelled to buy windows phone.

    The fault of the low market share falls 100% on MS. There is no energy behind windows phone and their only
    Abdicate was Nokia who used to pay developers to make apps exclusive to Nokia phones. Nokia doesn't exist anymore. (Well they do but the important piece doesn't)

    I ask all to not be complacent and demand more from this platform and ecosystem.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-27-2014 08:38 AM
  25. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Another special request to all Windows Phone users that really like their phones: "Share the Wealth". Show your phone to someone today. Just show them one of the features you like.


    I like the big "lively" Live Tiles and I have them arranged alternating with small and medium "static" Live Tiles. I try to avoid the boring grid of icons that the old fashioned phone OSs use. I leave an open small tile space, here and there, to let the background show through. This looks especially good in a row of medium size tiles with only two small tiles (diagonal from each other) next to it.

    People are amazed when I show them the tiles flipping.

    Best Wishes.
    Karthik Naik and prasath1234 like this.
    08-27-2014 08:39 AM
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