09-05-2014 08:21 PM
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  1. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    Hey Guys, let us not forget that Google, or should I say android, is only present on mobile and tablet space. Microsoft has PCs, servers, Xbox and mobile OS is the newest kid of MS's block. They are going in the right direction in my opinion. They made a blunder in entering late this field otherwise, Android users would be cribbing about lack of OS on that platform.
    Having said that, I feel windows is adding apps to its fold. However, that number cannot and will not improve unless we have a much bigger user base.
    Microsoft should aggressively target corporate users in my opinion. They will not give a damn if the latest and most popular games are there on the phones or not. They will want their VPNs, documents, conference calls, outlook mails and calendars etc. to work on mobiles and tabs. That is where Microsoft has an inherent advantage. Windows is more secure and more compatible with existing OS in offices. Also the collaboration through MS Lync is much better than anything else present in the market.
    At the end user side, i.e. our side, only thing that MS can do is to compete on price. If much smaller players can provide best of specs at such ridiculous prices, there is no reason for Lumia phones to be at par or just a tad lower than Samsung/HTC/iPhones. Typically entry level should be about $100 or less, lower mid-range (630 & 730) should be about $150, upper mid range (830/1330) should be less than $200 and the flagship phones should not be priced more than $350. I am not being too demanding or unrealistic. Even with with Quad/octa core processors, 2GB or more of RAM, front camera of 2MP and rear of 12MP or more, there are phones in China and India which cost less than $300. If those guys can do it, I am sure MS can do so at may be $50 (or maximum of $100) more with its much deeper pockets. Even if it means losing on margins for first couple of years then so be it. Once it has the volumes it need not worry about low margins. That kind of aggression will break competition and developers would be left with no choice but to make Windows their go to platform for developing apps.
    Till that time we will have complaints from users and developers alike. Price is the only thing that can shut everything up and push sales. Rest all is BS
    i agree with you but the phone you mentioned - im guessing the xiaomi mi3 is a poorly made device so its not really a deal breaker except for the fact that it houses a snapdragon 800 for less than $400 but its totally not worth the pain of poor quality in other parts,rather get a moto g if i want a similiar android
    08-29-2014 07:35 AM
  2. colinkiama's Avatar
    google forces you to join youtube,google+ etc even if we dont wanna,microsoft doesnt force us to do so,it only wants an ms account for the store ,its not making you join subpar social networks
    Have you even used google+. Its awesome, it's like twitter and facebook mixed together. Its is not subpar at all.
    08-29-2014 07:46 AM
  3. salmanahmad's Avatar
    youtubes official app isnt needed anyway,all it will do is add adverts in all our videos,youtube HD and metrotube are the best youtube clients ever
    google is geniunely scared of windows phone but not apple
    apple and google have copied alot of WP design etv(multitasking style in ios 7,android L copied the UI style),WP may not have all the features but it has a unique feel to it unlike ios and android which is what scares google,
    apple isnt trying to compete with windows phone imho,they seem hell bent on putting down android/google/samsung
    The advertisements help both you, and the person making the video, Google did indeed have a YouTube app on Windows Phone before Microsoft had conflicts with them which is why the app was pulled.

    Google has many of it's own services on iPhone, which is a more direct competitor as opposed to Windows Phone which had a fluctuating market share. Google is not afraid, at all.

    First of all, copying is what helps in operating system growth, Android, iOS have been copying each other for years and that's why both of them are advnaced, copying isn't bad.

    But with that said, Windows Phone has copied a lot more from Android and iOS than vice versa, the multitasking style in iOS came from the card based multitasking in WebOS(not Windows Phone) and the UI in Android may have borrowed inspiration from Windows Phone but is nonetheless unique.

    I have nothing against copying, but I just wanted to clear your many many misconceptions.

    No company, apart from maybe Blackberry, is afraid of Windows Phone.

    google forces you to join youtube,google+ etc even if we dont wanna,microsoft doesnt force us to do so,it only wants an ms account for the store ,its not making you join subpar social networks
    No it doesn't, Google Play Services are active on your device so that you can receive updates and security patches however making a Google account is purely dependent on choice.

    The YouTube also works without an account, but you do need to have an account to download things from the Play Store. Have you ever even used an Android device?

    And the Google+ on Android is pretty amazing and lagless, I use Google+ a lot more nowadays because of the amazing app. It's nor subpar.
    08-29-2014 07:52 AM
  4. colinkiama's Avatar
    I know what microsoft need to do now. Drop bing. Google search is google's bread and butter. Not even apple has their own search engine, thats why they are getting google apps, but microsoft rely on bing and are competing with google in every way. Bing maps google maps, bing search google search, bing weather, bing news, google weather and news, cortana vs google now, bing ads, google ads. Bing could still exist as cortana however bing search is probably why google doesn't want to develop apps for microsoft. I will admit that apple made their own mapping software but they aren't really competing with google directly with their 1st party ecosystem. The problem is microsoft is. So this war will never stop until microsoft drops bing or windows phone gets a massive boost in marketshare.

    My opinion.
    08-29-2014 08:02 AM
  5. D M C's Avatar
    google forces you to join youtube,google+ etc even if we dont wanna,microsoft doesnt force us to do so,it only wants an ms account for the store ,its not making you join subpar social networks
    Tell me how do I change search buttons to Google.

    MS forces you to use bing, outlook and other services
    08-29-2014 08:02 AM
  6. Andrea988's Avatar
    I admit to not having read all of this thread but to be honest I don't care who is the best company or who comes out on top. Both are mega rich corporations and I will go with the one whose products suit me best, just as I would with my choice of mobile phone.

    The only thing I would say is that it's Microsoft's own fault that they got so far behind Google in the smartphone OS wars for leaving it so long. It would be reasonably obvious to even a novice business manager that if a competitor is doing so well and increasing market share so fast that you need to do something about it.

    As such, Microsoft, possibly more than almost any other business in the world with their success and expertise with operating systems, have absolutely no excuse whatsoever for falling so far behind. Remember they were ridiculously wealthy before Google even got anywhere near the size they are today, and if WP eventually dies for lack of support and user take up Microsoft only have themselves to blame.

    I love my first and only Windows phone to date but if they disappear completely - and I wouldn't be surprised - I won't be shedding any tears for Microsoft.
    08-29-2014 08:09 AM
  7. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I know what microsoft need to do now. Drop bing. Google search is google's bread and butter. Not even apple has their own search engine, thats why they are getting google apps, but microsoft rely on bing and are competing with google in every way. Bing maps google maps, bing search google search, bing weather, bing news, google weather and news, cortana vs google now, bing ads, google ads. Bing could still exist as cortana however bing search is probably why google doesn't want to develop apps for microsoft. I will admit that apple made their own mapping software but they aren't really competing with google directly with their 1st party ecosystem. The problem is microsoft is. So this war will never stop until microsoft drops bing or windows phone gets a massive boost in marketshare.

    My opinion.
    Maybe if people generally wanted Google services on Windows Phone, Microsoft would've tried harder to improve their relations with Microsoft however because of all the misinformation spread around about Google stealing your data and being an advertising company, Google and Microsoft probably realized that no one in the Windows Phone community wants any services from Google.

    Cortana is nice, so is Internet Explorer and Bing Maps but IMO Google still makes a better browser and better maps, Cortana vs Google Now is debatable.

    Maybe if people we're more positive about getting official Google services, Microsoft would've tried harder and so would've Google.
    08-29-2014 08:10 AM
  8. realwarder's Avatar
    I know what microsoft need to do now. Drop bing. Google search is google's bread and butter. Not even apple has their own search engine, thats why they are getting google apps, but microsoft rely on bing and are competing with google in every way. Bing maps google maps, bing search google search, bing weather, bing news, google weather and news, cortana vs google now, bing ads, google ads. Bing could still exist as cortana however bing search is probably why google doesn't want to develop apps for microsoft. I will admit that apple made their own mapping software but they aren't really competing with google directly with their 1st party ecosystem. The problem is microsoft is. So this war will never stop until microsoft drops bing or windows phone gets a massive boost in marketshare.

    My opinion.
    Bing is finally good and will soon make money so I doubt they'll drop it.

    Marketshare is only way Google will respond as you say, so selling as many cheap phones as they can is the only way in. Premium buyers will buy Apple or Samsung. The budget end is the volume end and value for money is what matters.

    The 520's selling for $39.99 is that attempt to raise market share. It is happening, just slower than I think even they expected.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-29-2014 10:02 AM
  9. Jazmac's Avatar
    Here comes the yellow flag..
    Attached Thumbnails unnecessary-dialog-1.jpg ย 
    Guytronic likes this.
    08-29-2014 10:34 AM
  10. prasath1234's Avatar
    I feel google wants wp to die because major phones that android run are low cost devices which are laggy but has apps.windows phone too have their share in the low end.in the low end segment it is Ms which gives you smooth experience not android.so google does not want to loose low end consumers for WP.That is why they want to kill wp.Apple ๐ŸŽ is always top in high end which google cant do any thing.they will remain high end at least for 10 years.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-29-2014 10:42 AM
  11. Jazmac's Avatar
    I feel google wants wp to die because major phones that android run are low cost devices which are laggy but has apps.windows phone too have their share in the low end.in the low end segment it is Ms which gives you smooth experience not android.so google does not want to loose low end consumers for WP.That is why they want to kill wp.Apple ๏Ž is always top in high end which google cant do any thing.they will remain high end at least for 10 years.
    That's something. MS is the 300 lb gorilla in the room. It will be for some time to come. For all intents in purposes google is an upstart with a product it wants to protect. It won't take much to kill them off and they know it. Microsoft could hinder a lot of google revenue by choking off what chrome can do on the desktop. Using basically the same excuse google used to remove youtube from WP (advertizing) but for whatever reason they don't make moves like that. I suspect something else is amiss from Microsoft.
    Karthik Naik and Guytronic like this.
    08-29-2014 11:07 AM
  12. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I feel google wants wp to die because major phones that android run are low cost devices which are laggy but has apps.windows phone too have their share in the low end.in the low end segment it is Ms which gives you smooth experience not android.so google does not want to loose low end consumers for WP.That is why they want to kill wp.Apple ๐ŸŽ is always top in high end which google cant do any thing.they will remain high end at least for 10 years.
    Google doesn't want Windows Phone to die, if it did then Google would have never released a YouTube app in the first place.

    Android rules the sales of smart phones, they really have nothing to be afraid of.

    This argument is flawed.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    08-29-2014 11:15 AM
  13. realwarder's Avatar
    Google doesn't want Windows Phone to die, if it did then Google would have never released a YouTube app in the first place.

    Android rules the sales of smart phones, they really have nothing to be afraid of.

    This argument is flawed.
    I believe the current YouTube app is written by Microsoft with the blessing of Google. At one point Microsoft released a really nice version of it with downloads and the likes but Google chewed them up and forced the current near web wrapper. Which is better than nothing, but not the same as Google trying to promote their services on the platform.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-29-2014 12:04 PM
  14. smoledman's Avatar
    Do they though? You don't see Google launching attack ads and campaigns against Microsoft. By looking at whats taken place the last couple of years, I would say Microsoft is the one that's butthurt. Google simply pretends that Microsoft doesn't exist.
    Exactly. When you're the dominant one, you can just pretend the chasers don't exist. Lest no one forget, in mobile Apple/Google are dominant and MS is a chaser. Forever chasing.
    08-29-2014 01:53 PM
  15. smoledman's Avatar
    Google doesn't want Windows Phone to die, if it did then Google would have never released a YouTube app in the first place.

    Android rules the sales of smart phones, they really have nothing to be afraid of.

    This argument is flawed.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    I honestly don't think Google cares if Windows Phone succeeds or not. They are so focused on what they do(Android/Chrome) and their Google X stuff that there is no time to be thinking about MS.
    08-29-2014 01:54 PM
  16. stephen_az's Avatar
    And by we I mean us windows phone users . I don't care who started , I don't care who's wrong and who's right , all I know is , I'm tired of WP/W8 being treated as a second class citizen by google , and even though the blame is on google , MS is the one responsible for enhancing the platform's status , so I went ahead and did one of these
    Make amends with google โ€“ Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone
    ( I'm not sure if it has been done before , but what gives )
    PS : I know google has been ****** with YouTube but to be fair so has Microsoft with the scroogled thing ( I mean targeting google actually makes them even more popular , but saying like for example "superior" or "more secure" than " other products" is a better approach imo , but i'm not marketing expert so my opinion isn't that important I guess :p )
    Oh and twitter users , feel free to create a hashtag to use, that'd be useful
    No offense but this is just nave. I would suggest you really should read up on the situation. This is not a war (hate when people apply that to business) and neither company cares in the least about stupid commercials, etc., etc.. Google is engaging in an aggressive monopolistic policy not unlike that which got Microsoft in court more than a decade ago. It is about ensuring Google has control over the mobile market and they will use whatever means are necessary to achieve that goal.

    There are no amends to be made since this is not about personality, hurt feelings, or misunderstandings. Google will continue its effort to control the mobile operating system market by proxy (the difference from Microsoft's direct OS dominance in non-mobile) and will make it difficult to use their services from another platform not named ios. If Microsoft wants to make apps for android, that avenue is open since that is consistent with Google's goal. Google will not support Windows Phone today, tomorrow, or ever (unless Windows Phone reaches a point of market saturation that makes it in Google's interest). Until then, Google will also go out of its way to make sure Windows Phone never reaches that point of saturation. Keep in mind, of the big tech players, leaving lava lamps and do no evil BS aside, Google is the least ethical player in the game with Amazon running a distant second.

    I am sorry but this sort of thing simply totally misses the point. If you want to change Google's practices, stop using Google's services, block their web tracking, and join one of the class action suits or other actions that are ongoing. In another decade or so that might have some effect, unless Google funnels money to the wrong party in the next elections which could accelerate the process. Yes, that is an intentionally bleak scenario given the current business climate. The idea of making amends though honestly requires a suspension of disbelief, as in Hollywood movies or bad TV, to be taken seriously.
    08-29-2014 02:56 PM
  17. stephen_az's Avatar
    That's something. MS is the 300 lb gorilla in the room. It will be for some time to come. For all intents in purposes google is an upstart with a product it wants to protect. It won't take much to kill them off and they know it. Microsoft could hinder a lot of google revenue by choking off what chrome can do on the desktop. Using basically the same excuse google used to remove youtube from WP (advertizing) but for whatever reason they don't make moves like that. I suspect something else is amiss from Microsoft.
    Sorry but Google stopped being an upstart protecting some insecure position a long time ago. Perhaps you might want to take a look at the values, and market sector positions, of the companies and then rethink that statement. In that sense your use of 300 pound gorilla may be appropriate. The phrase is actually 800 pound gorilla. As strong as Microsoft is in its primary market sectors, it is not the 800 pound gorilla in this room. Google also now has a higher market cap overall than Microsoft as well.

    Standard disclaimer: I loathe Google on every conceivable level so none of that is intended as a compliment. It is simply a fact they are neither an upstart nor a one trick pony. They are the dominant player in mobile and intend to keep that position at any cost.
    a5cent and Karthik Naik like this.
    08-29-2014 03:06 PM
  18. bilzkh's Avatar
    Then I asked you same question then why not MS support Linux?
    They have also millions of users and most corporate use Linux then why?
    Are there 50 million Linux users? Can a company support multiple Linux distros with a single software type or will Microsoft need to develop multiple versions for Office for Linux?
    Moving to my part
    You know that
    YouTube have 800 plus millions users
    Gmail have 286 plus millions users
    And many more......

    If Google provides it's services then these users have choice to use WP.
    Because, as I said earlier, Google's core revenue stream doesn't come from Android, it comes from advertising and selling Google services. Android is just a way to deliver those services to users, but the aim - at the end of the day - is to sell users services. For the same reason Google actually rose and prospered on the back of Windows, it can sell to 50 million (growing by 7-8 million a quarter) users on the back of Windows Phone.
    Why would Google risks millions Billions of users for 50 millions users?
    Their is no way Google letting these users to give choice WP which have it's competitor services. Because as we know WP forces you to use MS services.
    Google wouldn't risk billions. At the end of the day it is selling services to people, and since Windows Phone has a lot of people demanding Google services, it'd make extra money by supporting Windows Phone. And yes, WP forces users to sign onto a Microsoft Account, but so what? After the initial sign-in, if users had access to Google services, they can go back to using GMail, Google Maps, Docs, Drive, etc.
    That is why Google isn't going to provide it's services to WP.
    If someone who uses only Google services then that users never be able to satisfied with WP and surly move to Android or iOS.
    Avg user will blame WP for that it has no Google apps not Google.
    But it doesn't make sense. Google makes money from selling services. If it doesn't sell to WP users (who actually want Google services), then it's not making money off those users UNLESS they switch to iOS or Android. And hence my earlier point. Google isn't doing this to WP because of low market share or whatever, it is doing it for the purpose of pushing WP out of the market, even though from their own business PoV, they don't need to (as they sell services across platforms). It seems to me that Google just wants to beat Microsoft in the OS game for the sake of beating it in the OS game.
    Business is much more than what you think.
    People who are sitting in Google offices know better than you & I.
    That is why Google is successful IT company.
    The people sitting in Google offices are human beings at the end of the day, them being IT professionals doesn't make them any less susceptible to irrational behaviour.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    08-29-2014 03:10 PM
  19. Connor Price's Avatar
    I hate to be 'that guy' but this is not an issue we, the Windows Phone community, can sort out. Microsoft and Google will have to do all the negotiating. Google don't have a war against Microsoft, rather a disagreement in certain areas. Specifically Windows Phone, and app development. Google got in a bit of a fluster when Microsoft released the YouTube app. Google and Microsoft collaborated together to produce that app, but Google thought that Microsoft's development aspects of the app breached YouTube's terms of service. Microsoft didn't really co-operate, thus leading to no Google apps. I mean, that's not the only reason, but you get the idea. Besides, Google dropped two patent disputes against Microsoft, and Microsoft own Android API's. Microsoft even introduced new Google API's into Windows Phone. They're two 'rivalling' companies, there's going to be tension between them, it's business. Things will improve, we just need to let them iron things out.
    Last edited by Connor Price; 08-29-2014 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Silly mistake...again. Maybe I should go to sleep :P
    08-29-2014 05:51 PM
  20. colinkiama's Avatar
    I hate to be 'that guy' but this is not an issue we, the Windows Phone community, can sort out. Microsoft and Google will have to do all the negotiating. Google don't have a war against Microsoft, rather a disagreement in certain areas. Specifically Windows Phone, and app development. Google got in a bit of a fluster when Microsoft released the YouTube app. Google and Microsoft collaborated together to produce that app, but Google thought that Microsoft's development aspects of the app breached YouTube's terms of service. Microsoft didn't really co-operate, thus leading to no Google apps. I mean, that's not the only reason, but you get the idea. Besides, Google dropped two patent disputes against Microsoft, and Microsoft own Android API's. Microsoft even introduced new Google API's into Windows Phone. They're two 'rivalling' companies, there's going to be tension between them, it's business. Things will improve, we just need to let them iron things out.
    That's the problem, it should be ironed out already. People are refusing to buy windows phones because of the lack of official google services. Microsoft is being slow again.
    08-29-2014 06:09 PM
  21. salmanahmad's Avatar
    That's the problem, it should be ironed out already. People are refusing to buy windows phones because of the lack of official google services.
    Judging from the posts above by many Windows Phone enthusiasts, they don't want Google services at all and justify everything by saying Google is an advertisement company, Google+ is subpar, myTube is better than YouTube, etc.

    I don't see how this would affect sales when clearly many of the people don't even want Google services on Windows Phones.

    Who knows? Maybe the attitude people have against Google is what made Microsoft relaxed about not bringing back "official" YouTube.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    D M C likes this.
    08-29-2014 06:19 PM
  22. EMINENT 1's Avatar
    I really have no use or care of an official YouTube app. Metrotube or the others work great so I have too many choices to care about.
    I switched to Bing and full modern IE for browsing.
    08-29-2014 06:27 PM
  23. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    It is pretty naive to think that if Microsoft offers google a hand of friendship then google will bring its services to windows phone because google will not. Unless, Microsoft exceeds its market share by more than 10-15% maybe then google will think about that. Till then MS has to think of ways to not screw up its OSes and services.
    08-29-2014 06:27 PM
  24. Connor Price's Avatar
    That's the problem, it should be ironed out already. People are refusing to buy windows phones because of the lack of official google services. Microsoft is being slow again.
    I agree in some respects, but it is a Microsoft platform. And although they should try and cater to all audiences, most people who want Google services other than YouTube will go straight to Android. Windows Phone wouldn't be considered, and most likely neither would iOS. Think of how long it took Microsoft to bring all of their services over to Android. It wasn't an instant thing. Microsoft catered to their platforms first. Much to what Google is doing now. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a Microsoft problem at the minute, although it has been in the past.
    08-29-2014 06:27 PM
  25. DER1996's Avatar
    No offense but this is just nave.
    I am sorry but this sort of thing simply totally misses the point. If you want to change Google's practices, stop using Google's services, block their web tracking, and join one of the class action suits or other actions that are ongoing. In another decade or so that might have some effect, unless Google funnels money to the wrong party in the next elections which could accelerate the process. Yes, that is an intentionally bleak scenario given the current business climate. The idea of making amends though honestly requires a suspension of disbelief, as in Hollywood movies or bad TV, to be taken seriously.
    Nave : I prefer optimistic :p , but seriously understating user's power over companies policies is something I consider nave
    Google + ethical = A BIG FAT NO , being ethical applies for people or groups not major corporations , especially if you're an advertising corporation , calling a company ethical is like calling it good or bad or happy or sad : meaningless . Even though you may consider me to be nave : which I do partly confess ; I think it's a lot more nave to consider a company in any way to be even remotely resemblnt to a human being , unless by human you mean a profit only machine ; but I don't like judging people whom I've never had a conversation with in real life ....
    Let's face it if Apple and MS once agreed in the past , Google and apple were also partners in the past , I can't see a real reason for MS and google not to be . and No google doesn't feel threatened by bing search because they've collected
    way more data and developing a search engine requires just that Data ; So if there's one MS product that'll be really for ever playing catch up with google's than it's bing search ; Note that this isn't true for the technologies and products based on Bing though e.g. Cortana .
    PS : Ads are what matter for Google , let'em sell'em and they'll do what ever it takes to take their profit margins even higher ,developing the apps for them than just let them publish the source code wouldn't really hurt MS either , on the contrary it'll give the necessary boost to Windows in general .
    08-29-2014 07:08 PM
185 12345 ...

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