Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

[kklemn]

re: Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

or if they release desktop and mobile versions at the same time they could be just windows 9 and windows 9m. just add m to mobile os.

 

[colinkiama]

re: Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

or if they release desktop and mobile versions at the same time they could be just windows 9 and windows 9m. just add m to mobile os.

No. People already call them windows 8 phones so why not just call the OS windows. We are still gonna call them windows phones anyway anyway lol.

 

[DoctorSaline]

That is definitely possible, and I think it would be awesome.

However, just to be clear, that wouldn't run the merged Phone/RT OS MS is currently working on.

Why not?

From what I understand
-There is Full Windows. It has two components:
1) Modern UI(WinRT)
2) Desktop UI(Win32)

-There is Windows RT. Currently it has two components:
1) Modern UI(WinRT)
2) Desktop UI(Win32 for ARM; locked down)

-There is Windows Phone. Currently it has only one component.
1) Modern UI(WinPRT; since WP8.1)
NO DESKTOP UI

It remains to be seen how Microsoft implements Threshold.

From what I see, Threshold will mean:

-Shared code or subset of a greater code in Modern UI.
- No Desktop UI in Phones and tablets. (According to sources).

It remains to be seen if they completely remove Desktop UI or just disable it. Technically, from what I understand, Desktop UI is an independent component that MS can attach and bundle with anything if they so desire, given the compatible hardware i-e
-Desktop UI(win32)
on Intel X86/64 and atom chipsets.
-Desktop UI(win32 for ARM; currently locked down) on ARM chipsets.

If they could code some sort of universal ModernUI, the possibilities will be endless.

Am I right? Or did I mix things up? Lol.

 

[colinkiama]

re: Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

Why not?

From what I understand
-There is Full Windows. It has two components:
1) Modern UI(WinRT)
2) Desktop UI(Win32)

-There is Windows RT. Currently it has two components:
1) Modern UI(WinRT)
2) Desktop UI(Win32 for ARM; locked down)

-There is Windows Phone. Currently it has only one component.
1) Modern UI(WinPRT; since WP8.1)
NO DESKTOP UI

It remains to be seen how Microsoft implements Threshold.

From what I see, Threshold will mean:

-Shared code or subset of a greater code in Modern UI.
- No Desktop UI in Phones and tablets. (According to sources).

It remains to be seen if they completely remove Desktop UI or just disable it. Technically, from what I understand, Desktop UI is an independent component that MS can attach and bundle with anything if they so desire, given the compatible hardware i-e
-Desktop UI(win32)
on Intel X86/64 and atom chipsets.
-Desktop UI(win32 for ARM; currently locked down) on ARM chipsets.

If they could code some sort of universal ModernUI, the possibilities will be endless.

Am I right? Or did I mix things up? Lol.

Nailed it.

 

[anon(5408816)]

re: Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

Could see it like this:

Windows - ARM
Windows Professional - x86 / x64
Windows Enterprise - x86 / x64
Windows Server - x86 / x64
Windows Embedded - Other
Sent from my Lumia Icon

 

[a5cent]

Am I right? Or did I mix things up? Lol.

Nice summary! I think you got almost everything right. Here is the bit that isn't:

The Windows RT SKU will be killed, but all of the modern UI features we associate with Windows/RT will be ported over to WP. I've been saying this for a long time already, and we are just now starting to hear about the first such features making it into WP, like split screen support (known as the snap feature in the modern UI).

MS will therefore neither remove the desktop component nor just disable it. It will just never have existed in the OS that will end up running on phones and cheaper tablets.

While you are correct that the desktop is a separate component, that isn't enough for desktop applications to run reliably. To reliably run any desktop software, we also need the other gigabytes worth of functionality that ships with Windows. As I already explained, this completely screws up any chances MS has of making Windows tablets cost competitive with cheap Android tablets. MS needs a tablet option without the legacy baggage. That is what this "merged" Phone/RT OS is. That is why you won't see Windows programs running on that OS.

Of course, there is nothing stopping MS from installing full blown windows on tablets (like the surface Pro) or future phones, but that will come at a cost (storage space, power consumption, etc) that not every device can afford to bare.

 

[DoctorSaline]

re: Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

Nice summary! I think you got almost everything right. Here is the bit that isn't:

The Windows RT SKU will be killed, but all of the modern UI features we associate with Windows/RT will be ported over to WP. I've been saying this for a long time already, and we are just now starting to hear about the first such features making it into WP, like split screen support (known as the snap feature in the modern UI).

MS will therefore neither remove the desktop component nor just disable it. It will just never have existed in the OS that will end up running on phones and cheaper tablets.

While you are correct that the desktop is a separate component, that isn't enough for desktop applications to run reliably. To reliably run any desktop software, we also need the other gigabytes worth of functionality that ships with Windows. As I already explained, this completely screws up any chances MS has of making Windows tablets cost competitive with cheap Android tablets. MS needs a tablet option without the legacy baggage. That is what this "merged" Phone/RT OS is. That is why you won't see Windows programs running on that OS.

Of course, there is nothing stopping MS from installing full blown windows on tablets (like the surface Pro) or future phones, but that will come at a cost (storage space, power consumption, etc) that not every device can afford to bare.

Thank you for the explanation. Of course, I understand what you mean. It would be impossible to squeeze 'pc experience' in budget offerings.

But, flagship surface phone with atom chipset may do wonders for MS in enterprise or people who have to work on MS suite of office apps on daily basis. Although of course Intel would have to come through on this. A processor that is not only efficient to run full windows but also gives a longer battery life. But considering what MS has achieved with Surface Pro 3, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again.

Another, lazy way of doing it would be to use ARM. It might solve the problem of battery and power. A tegra k1 based phone with desktop UI(when needed) which already has Office2013(recompiled for ARM). But that would probably suffer the same fate as Surface 2 due to locked down nature of desktop(on ARM) and not being able to run legacy apps. Although, I'm surprised MS hasn't tried it already.

Exciting times ahead. Let's hope MS execute it properly this time.

 

[rodan01]

re: Windows Phone to be renamed just "Windows"?

Thank you for the explanation. Of course, I understand what you mean. It would be impossible to squeeze 'pc experience' in budget offerings.

But, flagship surface phone with atom chipset may do wonders for MS in enterprise or people who have to work on MS suite of office apps on daily basis. Although of course Intel would have to come through on this. A processor that is not only efficient to run full windows but also gives a longer battery life. But considering what MS has achieved with Surface Pro 3, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again.

Another, lazy way of doing it would be to use ARM. It might solve the problem of battery and power. A tegra k1 based phone with desktop UI(when needed) which already has Office2013(recompiled for ARM). But that would probably suffer the same fate as Surface 2 due to locked down nature of desktop(on ARM) and not being able to run legacy apps. Although, I'm surprised MS hasn't tried it already.

Exciting times ahead. Let's hope MS execute it properly this time.

It's an interesting value proposition that phones or tablet could provide productivity experience when connected to a screen/keyboard/mouse, but the apps in the big-screen experience should the same phone/tablet apps with an UI optimized keyboard and mouse, not the legacy win32 apps that can't be integrated with the mobile OS and break the security model of the device.

I think Threshold will introduce Desktop Store Apps. Apps developed with Winrt APIs but with an UI optimized for keyboard and mouse. These apps will have the same security constraints of the current Modern UI apps, will be published in the Windows Store and developer could reuse most of the code with the phone/tablet version.
These are the kind of apps should run in a big-screen experience for phones and tablets. Legacy win32 apps should be only accessed through Remote Desktop.

 

[a5cent]

But, flagship surface phone with atom chipset may do wonders for MS in enterprise or people who have to work on MS suite of office apps on daily basis.

Yup, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this won't or shouldn't happen. I think it's just a question of when. However, I don't think we will see such phones in this upcoming OS cycle. I'd gladly be mistaken, but I doubt it.

Anyway, the point of all this was to discuss the differences between MS' upcoming mobile and laptop/desktop OSes, and why it doesn't make sense to give them one and the same name.

Imagine we would. How would anybody know if such a future Windows smartphone ran the merged WP/RT OS (without Win32 desktop support) or the full blown Windows OS (with Win32 desktop support). We couldn't...

 

[YanivC]

nononono. I love the XBox name. Why would they drop something that has such a loyal base? It took billions for create that brand recognition, ya can't just toss it out the window. I don't know.... I'm partial to Windows Phone.... because THAT'S what it is! It is not a "windows", it is a "windows" device. Which device I prithee? A phone... a Windows Phone
As for Surface, that's just the model of the device, not the platform.

 

[jojoe42]

Why not?

From what I understand
-There is Full Windows. It has two components:
1) Modern UI(WinRT)
2) Desktop UI(Win32)

-There is Windows RT. Currently it has two components:
1) Modern UI(WinRT)
2) Desktop UI(Win32 for ARM; locked down)

-There is Windows Phone. Currently it has only one component.
1) Modern UI(WinPRT; since WP8.1)
NO DESKTOP UI

It remains to be seen how Microsoft implements Threshold.

From what I see, Threshold will mean:

-Shared code or subset of a greater code in Modern UI.
- No Desktop UI in Phones and tablets. (According to sources).

It remains to be seen if they completely remove Desktop UI or just disable it. Technically, from what I understand, Desktop UI is an independent component that MS can attach and bundle with anything if they so desire, given the compatible hardware i-e
-Desktop UI(win32)
on Intel X86/64 and atom chipsets.
-Desktop UI(win32 for ARM; currently locked down) on ARM chipsets.

If they could code some sort of universal ModernUI, the possibilities will be endless.

Am I right? Or did I mix things up? Lol.

The rumors say it's the same code, same kernel, pretty much the same OS on every device, except the UI morphs to change depending on the form factor (obviously the phone won't have the desktop, and laptops may not have some phone-specific functions).

The reason why they took Windows 8 into the live tiles interface is to line up the UI with WP and XBO. Obviously that UI will get a few tweaks but MS is trying to get a sense of continuity here - that is if I've been using a Windows Phone I can pick up a tablet with Windows 9 on it a use it with no major problems - basically they're trying to reduce the learning curve WITHIN the MS ecosystem with the same design philosophies in the UI. So trees, they are trying to get at a (common, not totally universal) UI for the next version of Windows

 

[werner6769]

nononono. I love the XBox name. Why would they drop something that has such a loyal base? It took billions for create that brand recognition, ya can't just toss it out the window. I don't know.... I'm partial to Windows Phone.... because THAT'S what it is! It is not a "windows", it is a "windows" device. Which device I prithee? A phone... a Windows Phone


As for Surface, that's just the model of the device, not the platform.

Yes I agree. Changing a successful name like XBox is as smart as apple changing there iPhone to AppleTree or GridFest. Even if windows phone's name was changed they should keep the phone in the name. Like Xphone or WinXphone. Just naming it windows is confusing.

 

[jojoe42]

Ehm, no, but granted, iOS is by far the fattest of the three. It occupies about 1.4 GB. That would be 14 hundred megabytes, and I did say hundreds of megabytes, not just "a couple megabytes" as you've falsely implied.

You are likely refering to the fact that to download, unpack, and install iOS requires about 3GB of free storage space, but that is irrelevant in this context.

WP clocks in around 400 megabytes. AOSP Android can be even smaller.

The point is, again, that these are all much leaner and cheaper to accommodate than a full blown Windows/RT installation of 7GB or more.

Finally, I never said MS would cut out the desktop on your surface (Pro). Such devices will continue to ship with full blown Windows, just as they do today. Completely different topic. However, MS will completely remove it from the simpler Surface (non Pro) tablets... they already kind of have.


Technically, yes. So? Again, that is completely irrelevant to my point.

I think your reaction kind of proves how refering to both OS' by the same name would just confuse people.

Personally I prefer the name Windows 9 tbh because technically it will all be the same OS with slightly changed interfaces on each form factor, but I can understand if MS want to get away from that negative "Windows 8" stigma

 

[a5cent]

because technically it will all be the same OS with slightly changed interfaces on each form factor,

This is where you are making your mistake. If that were true, then I'd completely understand your point and agree with you.

The rumors say it's the same code, same kernel, pretty much the same OS on every device, except

Yup, exactly this is why we disagree. It's true that many "consumery" websites with zero engineering knowledge are "reporting" along those lines, but it's complete malarkey.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... these will be two different operating systems. They will share the kernel (a very small part of the OS overall) and the WinRT runtime and APIs, but that is all. Even together, that represents a very small part of the OS we currently call Windows. These two OSes won't at all be "the same OS with slightly changed interfaces".

 

[jonnaver]

I have an awesome idea for a mobile OS name:

Windows Vista.

What? Why are you looking at me like that??

 

[Jazmac]

I have an awesome idea for a mobile OS name:

Windows Vista.

What? Why are you looking at me like that??

lol.

 

[lcw731]

Bad decision. Will make public confuse. Everyone will expect to run PC apps on their "pocket pcs".

Will only be confusing if they continue to market and operate as separate products, but if it marketed as and operates as one product on your computer,tablet,phone then there is no reason for confusion. Windows 8, Windows 8Rt, Windows Phone 8, that is confusing.

 

[tgp]

I have an awesome idea for a mobile OS name:

Windows Vista.

What? Why are you looking at me like that??

I remember at Vista's release I thought it was a cool sounding name. The actual product would be equally as good, right? :wink:

But for the record, I still think it was a cool sounding name!

 

[anon(5789608)]

MS Surface running Windows PRO (x86) with 8" ~ 12"
MS Lumia running Windows PRT (phone+rt arm) with 4" ~ 6"

and please microsoft, stop rebranding

microsoft windows live hotmail, microsoft bing maps??

MS Maps
MS Bing
MS Explorer (internet explorer)

no more Microsoft Bing Live Hotmail for Windows 8.1.1.1.1.1..1

 

[anon(8985111)]

The idea of branding everything as "Windows" sounds interesting, however, it seems to suggest that this will be the one definite way we are all going to use our stuff for at least the next 50 years or so (which I kind of doubt). So once they start overhauling this whole thing again, they would run into some serious branding problems I suppose.