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10-03-2014 03:11 PM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    Most people just go directly to the web browser and call it a day. Especially on a PC
    That's me. On a small device (read phone) I prefer apps to the browser, but on a PC I prefer the browser.
    FinancialP likes this.
    10-01-2014 09:52 PM
  2. Edge007's Avatar
    I have to chime in on this.

    I used to work for Sprint, and I can remember when the Palm Pre was launched, and then the Android back in '08 & '09. The main thing I remembered in the competition between the two was that the Android widgets caught on, and that Google was quicker to update Android than Palm. Palm suffered due in part to their issues with software updates (early days of cloud services), and hardware issues (the sliding mechanism would get worn, and keys were too small). But, Google had made a name for itself prior to making Android, that developed more of the peoples interest, I believe (Google Search, Google Maps, gMail, Chrome).

    Microsoft decided to revamp Windows Mobile into Windows Phone 7, and the key to Marketing Windows Phone 7 was the Metro interface, Office, Bing, and IE. I eventually switched to my Samsung Focus in February 2011, and for me even up to this day (with my Lumia 1520), I love Windows Phone, but, the biggest ***** with Windows Phone is the App Gap, and marketshare. I should not have to switch banks to get use out of my Windows Phone!

    Right now, Microsoft is riding the Cortana wave, but Microsoft has to do something more than rely on Cortana, because eventually Apple and Google will catch up to Cortana's abilities. Microsoft has to find something that sets Windows Phone apart or unique (besides Live Tiles), to attract people who want leave Android and iOS (otherwise, Microsoft becomes mediocre, and will continue to see their marketshare shrink). The biggest thing Microsoft can do is humble it's position, and admit that there is an App Gap. Where is the Sirius XM radio app, where is Candy Crush, and where are the major apps that would entice Android/iOS users to migrate? Microsoft must try harder to entice developers to produce the apps that are on Android and iOS.

    Lastly, unless we as Windows Phone users unite, and try to show the public that our Windows Phone is just as good as the Android/iOS phones, then, we will eventually lose our faith to having the best phone besides iOS and Android. I just see the facts the way they are.
    Last edited by Edge007; 10-02-2014 at 12:34 AM.
    10-01-2014 11:17 PM
  3. anon6002755's Avatar
    Lastly, unless we as Windows Phone users unite, and try to show the public that our Windows Phone is just as good as the Android/iOS phones, then, we will eventually lose our faith to having the best phone besides iOS and Android. I just see the facts the way they are.

    There is much of the platform i really like and I want it to succeed, but i cant see myself being a windows phone lobbyist of sorts. I've seen multiple threads about how many have you converted to the platform, I just don't see that as the end users job. Doing that makes me feel like the religious types who come to my door and hand me pamphlets. I'd rather keep using the platform and supporting it as an end user and let Microsoft do the marketing. But by no means do i think users shouldn't tweet, email, or contact companies they want apps from though.
    10-02-2014 07:40 AM
  4. spaulagain's Avatar
    With Cortana on Windows 10 (which will be on all device types), MS will have a seriously competitive platform. It will be the first digital assistant to be on all devices, phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, and TV. Not to mention that Cortana is already leaps ahead of Siri, and on par (maybe better) than Google Now.

    Windows 10 will make it hard to argue that iOS or Android is better. Unless they just randomly strip out a bunch of features for the ARM segment, it's going to be a very comprehensive OS for phones and tablets.

    And making Universal Apps deployable to all devices with identical APIs for all devices, that's killer for developers. Especially considering the desktop penetration MS has.

    Anybody that currently gives me **** about my phone I just smile and laugh. I know that MS has the most potential in their ecosystem and is heading in the right direction. It may be missing a few features here and there, but once MS has completed their ecosystem synchronization, it will be a killer platform. It looks like Windows 10 will be the final major step towards synchronization.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    10-02-2014 03:09 PM
  5. Loco5150's Avatar
    I dont think its about "which platform is the best" anymore. Only the geeks care about these things so deeply. It's about what you are accustomed to and whats around you...

    Microsoft has a big userbase in their pc's. Whats problematic about that, its that in general those are not considered cool or hip in anyway. For most people its "that annoying Windows that never works 100% and drives me crazy". Even though the problem is not in Windows, its in the user who does not know how to use it properly.

    For those reasons they still have a looooong way to get people to their mobile platform.

    Now, whats positive is that at some point people will move to something else, nothing is forever. If WP is then the best and most appealing choice sitting there... There you go.

    This will still take years though. No shortcuts here.. Only baby steps.
    Last edited by Loco5150; 10-02-2014 at 03:47 PM.
    10-02-2014 03:27 PM
  6. spaulagain's Avatar
    I dont think its about "which platform is the best" anymore. Only the geeks care about these things so deeply. It's about what you are accustomed to and whats around you...

    Microsoft has a big userbase in their pc's. Whats problematic about that, its that in general those are not considered cool or hip in anyway. For most people its "that annoying Windows that never works 100% and drives me crazy". Even though the problem is not in Windows, its in the user who does not know how to use it properly.

    For those reasons they still have a looooong way to get people to their mobile platform.

    Now, whats positive is that at some point people will move to something else, nothing is forever. If WP is then the best and most appealing choice sitting there... There you go.

    This will still take years though. No shortcuts here.. Only baby steps.
    WP won't exist. It will be gone as of Summer 2015.

    If Windows 10 is a success for desktops, it will have a huge impact on users interested in tablets and phones. It will be the same OS, just an adjusted UI.
    10-02-2014 04:29 PM
  7. Loco5150's Avatar
    Yes yes we know the name changes.... But you see thats the whole problem, no one really cares about the name of the phone OS they are using. (except geeks)

    A lot of people are using Apple and a lot of people are using Samsung.

    When I sold my Ativ-S to a friend who had seen me using that "nice phone with those boxes", she commented later how her friend also has an Samsung, but its somehow totally different.

    There will be no miracles for Microsoft OS powered phone in the near future. Only small baby steps. That's until some sort of a bigger movement starts to happen in either of the 2 major OSs. Or Microsoft has managed to gain market share step by step so much, that some sort of a point is reached where the speed starts to increase.... Maybe its the double digits that Nokia was so often talking about...

    Who knows, but don't expect miracles.
    Last edited by Loco5150; 10-02-2014 at 04:59 PM.
    10-02-2014 04:47 PM
  8. Edge007's Avatar
    Products die when the consumers that have invested in the product do not care enough to tell others about it. For example, look at how long Sega lasted until it lost appeal with consumers, and although, Nintendo and Sony won over the videogame market, Sega tried to stay relevant with the consumers. What happened was that the people saw the game manufacturers release games that were only for Sony and Nintendo, and the consumer dollar voted to buy the Sony and Nintendo, however, the Propaganda is that the News Publications is heavily invested by the manufacturers to create appeal to get consumers to buy their product, and to add insult to injury is that the Sony and Nintendo consumers ARE NOT ASHAMED to stand by their company's product.

    So, in essence, the future of Microsoft's success is in the hand's of the consumer, but it is up to the consumer to help Microsoft's Windows Phone (Windows 10 OS) to stay in the conversations with the media and private citizens (this is what is known as "BUZZ" or Elevator Talk). Do you think that the iOS and Android fanboys and girls are going to relent from their position without a demonstration of why Windows Phone has advantages over their phone. I can think of a few, which are, Windows Phone has not been hacked, there are no malwares in the ecosystem, Cortana, Nokia Camera software (and for some, the Lumia 1520 and 1020 hardware).

    Keep talking about Windows Phone, and what it does for you! Let the Android and iOS fans see that you are not afraid to be Bold with your choice of your cell phone, because eventually you will inspire those who are ready to convert to consider buying a Windows Phone. Marketing is largely successful when the Word Of Mouth is hugely actively selling to others (Microsoft cannot sell Windows Phone successfully on their own). It is very important to see that Microsoft is penetrating the marketshare, and if we talk about Windows Phone to others, then, we will get the Manufacturers, App Developers, marketshare, and respect.
    10-03-2014 01:46 AM
  9. spaulagain's Avatar
    Yes yes we know the name changes.... But you see thats the whole problem, no one really cares about the name of the phone OS they are using. (except geeks)

    A lot of people are using Apple and a lot of people are using Samsung.

    When I sold my Ativ-S to a friend who had seen me using that "nice phone with those boxes", she commented later how her friend also has an Samsung, but its somehow totally different.

    There will be no miracles for Microsoft OS powered phone in the near future. Only small baby steps. That's until some sort of a bigger movement starts to happen in either of the 2 major OSs. Or Microsoft has managed to gain market share step by step so much, that some sort of a point is reached where the speed starts to increase.... Maybe its the double digits that Nokia was so often talking about...

    Who knows, but don't expect miracles.
    It's not just a name change. Windows 10 will be the same OS on any device, just compiled for a different processor. But features and app development will be the same. Whether it's installed on 10 million or 300 million phones won't really matter because it will share market share with all other Windows 10 devices. Making it a very appealing to develop apps for. And the features will be shared in Windows 10, so there won't be issues with it falling behind in features like there currently is with WP.

    There won't be two OSes. Just ONE. Screen size will be so spread out among desktops, tablets, and phones, it will be hard to classify anything as a particular segment.
    10-03-2014 08:50 AM
  10. rodan01's Avatar
    It's not just a name change. Windows 10 will be the same OS on any device, just compiled for a different processor. But features and app development will be the same. Whether it's installed on 10 million or 300 million phones won't really matter because it will share market share with all other Windows 10 devices. Making it a very appealing to develop apps for. And the features will be shared in Windows 10, so there won't be issues with it falling behind in features like there currently is with WP.

    There won't be two OSes. Just ONE. Screen size will be so spread out among desktops, tablets, and phones, it will be hard to classify anything as a particular segment.
    But Windows 10 for laptops and hybrids is optimized for keyboard and mouse, so probably developers will also optimize their apps for keyboard and mouse.
    Store apps for touch devices will be an afterthought for third party developer, in the same way that touch interaction is an afterthought for Windows 10.
    10-03-2014 09:20 AM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Here's a funny one. One of my field supervisors was in my office this morning going over schedules and such. I was about to send him a calendar invite for a meeting next week when he told me that his data was not provisioned. I grabbed his Android and immediately turned on "data". He was bewildered that it was so simple and he felt foolish. He's had the phone for about 3 weeks and didn't tell anyone, but that's another matter. I pulled out my 635, and sent him the invite. He marveled at how fast it was since his home page hadn't even finished loading. I told him it was no big deal, my phone's a Windows Lumia. His reaction? "Oh yeah, but that's a Windows Phone, you can afford that on your salary".

    Are people that ignorant? Could we be looking at this all wrong? If people are thinking Windows products are expensive and salespeople are telling them "you don't want that", could it be a perception problem? I know us techies are in tune with what's going on but there's 300 million people in this country who are probably just as out of it as my guy. As a side note, my supervisor knows how to work the Android apps. He scans field docs to me and downloads spec sheets onsite. He's been trained in very sensitive hospital equipment, by yours truly, and he's no dummy. But this morning's events really got me thinking.
    Guytronic likes this.
    10-03-2014 09:41 AM
  12. AngrySprintUser's Avatar
    Personal reasons why I am considering an iPhone now for my new phone.

    ​To set the proper tone here is my device history: T-Mobile Shadow, HTC Touch Viva, HTC Touch 3G, HTC Touch Pro 2, HTC HD7, Dell Venue pro, Lumia 521, Lumia 925, Lumia 635.I have also attempted using the Nexus 4, which I was still left with a lackluster feeling of the disorganized Android OS and the main reasons for my choices are the user experience and hardware. Now the WP OS user experience I have no issues with, on the hardware side of the equation, Microsoft has essentially failed maximizing the availability of the best hardware to all their customers by offering these so call "exclusives" to specific providers which has started since they revamped the Windows Phone OS. Now they have made some strides in trying to provide the phones in different tiers Low, Mid and High. This allows different markets to enjoy most if not all features of the OS. Now for those of us who have picked specific providers based on proper research instead of bouncing around. Apple, HTC and Samsung have been able to provide almost every provider their High & Mid tier phones and exclusives would be a specialty version of these devices. If Microsoft keeps up this strategy, most people will never have a reason to look forward to the next device or the next level of the WP OS. Apple has steadily built that following by making mistakes but those mistakes have still kept almost their entire fan base loyal. Samsung decided to use a shortcut getting there and building their fan base. Microsoft wants the WP OS to spread but the hardware methods are steady but restricted only to some people instead of everyone. A good example has been the Surface tablet range , improvements and expanding, The original Surface Pro, good first attempt, Surface Pro 2 improved on the original and Surface Pro 3 is learning from past improvements & mistakes and making it a damn good device. I know with the tablet, Microsoft had control from start to finish and I'm sure then have some say on these exclusives between providers and manufacturers.

    To outline my complaint about exclusives
    Lumia 1020 - AT&T

    Lumia 920 - AT&T
    Lumia 930 - Verizon (Icon)
    Lumia 1320- Cricket wireless
    Lumia 1520 - AT&T
    HTC ONE - Verizon (initially)
    Samsung ATIV S - Never made it to carriers in USA
    Samsung ATIV SE - Verizon
    Samsung ATIV Neo & Odyssey - AT&T & Verizon
    Samsung Focus & Focus 2 - AT&T
    HTC Titan & Titan 2 - AT&T


    There is no reason I have to chose a specific provider to get the phone I want. The iPhone initially started down that route and figured out it was in their best interests to make it available to all consumers.
    Samsung, HTC, Blackberry all made sure that their best products were available to as many of their customers as possible. Microsoft is not doing so with these manufacturers . As disappointed as I am at this time, I do have patience and hope that something down the road will make this an excellent experience for all but that flicker for the iPhone is still back there.

    I'm not gonna say stick with WP, just avoid the iBend 6
    10-03-2014 09:47 AM
  13. spaulagain's Avatar
    But Windows 10 for laptops and hybrids is optimized for keyboard and mouse, so probably developers will also optimize their apps for keyboard and mouse.
    Store apps for touch devices will be an afterthought for third party developer, in the same way that touch interaction is an afterthought for Windows 10.
    That's ridiculous. Windows 8 was optimized for mouse and keyboard too. You could use both in W8 with no problems, the difference was the "Metro" environment was all this full screen stuff and felt disconnected from the desktop. But it wasn't "unusable" for mouse or keyboard, and neither were any of the apps.

    Windows 10 is about merging those two interface methods into a more seamless experience. Then adjust the UI SLIGHTLY to accommodate each input method accordingly.

    In general, a touch friendly UI is also friendly for mouse and keyboard. The only case where that's truly not the case is for advanced applications like PhotoShop, Illustrator, AutoCAD, Visual Studio, etc.

    I've been using Live Interior 3D Pro for Windows 8 about a month now. While it's built with the touch focused UI, I've been using it almost solely with mouse and keyboard. It's been super easy to use as a result, and is actually better I think because the UI is bigger and more clear. It's not a perfect UI, needs some aesthetic polish, but it works great for all input methods.
    10-03-2014 12:47 PM
  14. rodan01's Avatar
    That's ridiculous. Windows 8 was optimized for mouse and keyboard too. You could use both in W8 with no problems, the difference was the "Metro" environment was all this full screen stuff and felt disconnected from the desktop. But it wasn't "unusable" for mouse or keyboard, and neither were any of the apps.

    Windows 10 is about merging those two interface methods into a more seamless experience. Then adjust the UI SLIGHTLY to accommodate each input method accordingly.

    In general, a touch friendly UI is also friendly for mouse and keyboard. The only case where that's truly not the case is for advanced applications like PhotoShop, Illustrator, AutoCAD, Visual Studio, etc.

    I've been using Live Interior 3D Pro for Windows 8 about a month now. While it's built with the touch focused UI, I've been using it almost solely with mouse and keyboard. It's been super easy to use as a result, and is actually better I think because the UI is bigger and more clear. It's not a perfect UI, needs some aesthetic polish, but it works great for all input methods.


    Windows 8 was optimized for touch, but usable with mouse. With 8.1 they improved things for mouse, but the OS still needs more tweaks.
    For example, in 8.0 to close an app you had to drag from the top to the bottom with the mouse, that's usable, but not great. In Windows 8.1 they added the window title bar, that's a good change.
    To access the menu in store apps you had to right click. In 8.1 they added the bottom bar with the three dots in some apps to improve usage and discoverability.
    Many more changes like those are needed in the Modern UI to improve the experience for keyboard and mouse.

    The usage of Store apps in laptop and desktop PCs is really low, in fact the the Surface RT tablet is by far the most used device to run store apps, although sales of the devices were insignificant.

    In the awful Windows 10, Microsoft will unify the development platform in WinRT. So, desktop apps will be developed with the same APIs that tablet apps use. Probably they will introduce widgets optimized for mouse interaction, like menus, toolbars, etc., to make possible productivity apps like Photoshop or line of business applications.

    So, yes, this could improve the app situation because more developers will adopt WinRT for productivity and consumer apps. But, this could be a problem too, because as the usage of WinRT apps increase in the desktop developers will forget about tablets and phones that are insignificant in market share, and they will optimize for keyboard and mouse. Specially if the OS itself changed from being optimized for touch, to being optimized for mouse and keyboard, basically an horrible Windows 7 with tiles.
    10-03-2014 01:22 PM
  15. etad putta's Avatar
    It's less than bleak, it's virtually non-existent. At a 2.5% market share it's obvious no one cares and with windows 10 most likely being a year or more away it's adios amigos.
    SAM 77 likes this.
    10-03-2014 02:25 PM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    It's less than bleak, it's virtually non-existent. At a 2.5% market share it's obvious no one cares and with windows 10 most likely being a year or more away it's adios amigos.
    The 2.5% statistic is WP's share of smartphone sales in Q2 2014. So far the predicted turning points haven't produced the desired effect. I would say now that not much will happen at least until devices with W10 are released, which will probably be up to a year from now.

    Now that Q3 is over, it will be interesting to see how it fared in sales.Statistics should be released before too long. Q4 will likely be better in hard numbers, but all phones sell well in that period. It won't necessarily increase market share.
    Last edited by tgp; 10-03-2014 at 02:54 PM.
    10-03-2014 02:38 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It's less than bleak, it's virtually non-existent. At a 2.5% market share it's obvious no one cares and with windows 10 most likely being a year or more away it's adios amigos.
    Nobody could ever accuse you of viewing the world through rose-colored glasses, that's for sure.
    tgp and WanderingTraveler like this.
    10-03-2014 03:11 PM
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