12-12-2014 09:40 PM
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  1. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    I think I stopped reading your post after about 2 lines because it's a wall of text. Learn to paragraph.

    As to what I think you mean based on those 2 lines and your subject? No, I don't think they're dumb. Windows Phone users (myself included, even, at one point) seem to labor under the misguided idea that if you buy a Windows Phone you are somehow important to Microsoft, or that you mean something to Microsoft, and that Microsoft owes you a premium experience.

    Microsoft is a corporation, and a corporation's main goal is to make money for the shareholders. Microsoft is going to go where the money is at, and unfortunately, that's not in Windows Phone. I'm not saying that Windows Phone is doomed or that there's NO money in it whatsoever, but there's MORE money in Android and iOS. That's what they would be dumb to ignore.
    If this logic holds then what is the justification for any consumer to opt for Windows Phone? Given that the better services are on iOS and Android, why should not the consumer go to those eco-systems? What is the advantage of remaining on Windows Phone? Take me for example, I have a Win 8.1 x64 desktop machine, a Surface Pro 3, an iPad Air and the L830. Most of my work is done on the SP3, the desktop machine is a back-up; I use O365 extensively. Now, what is the logic of my using Windows Phone? Will I not be better off using Android or iOS - probably iOS (even though the h/w is expensive) because their app eco-system is excellent (and the recent Windows contribution to it makes the question of integration with my work-flow virtually seamless)?
    11-09-2014 11:50 AM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    I remember when the excuse was that better Microsoft apps on ios and android would bring people to WP. Now that excuse is out the window. Guess by the time the savior OS Windows 10 hits the story will change again to somehow being a massive win for WP which will be even further in obscurity. Can't wait to read the spin on that one.
    11-09-2014 12:08 PM
  3. iamtim's Avatar
    If this logic holds then what is the justification for any consumer to opt for Windows Phone?
    Because they don't like iOS and/or Android? That seems fairly obvious.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-09-2014 12:08 PM
  4. neo158's Avatar
    Because they don't like iOS and/or Android? That seems fairly obvious.
    Ah, so this is how Microsoft is going to gain market share then. /s
    a5cent likes this.
    11-09-2014 12:27 PM
  5. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    Because they don't like iOS and/or Android? That seems fairly obvious.
    Look...I also don't like Android (I've used Android phones before I moved to Win Phone) and am ambivalent about iOS (my only exposure has been the iPad 4 and now the Air). What I do know is that the latter's eco-system is very good and with MS introducing their apps it has made the integration of iOS devices much easier for me. That said, I will not want a Mac as a desktop machine and nor will I give up my SP3, which is one of the best devices that I have ever owned (and this is coming from a ThinkPad fanatic!).
    11-09-2014 12:40 PM
  6. iamtim's Avatar
    Ah, so this is how Microsoft is going to gain market share then. /s
    I didn't say anything about Microsoft gaining market share. Honestly... in my opinion, they won't. Not in the US, at least. They might have a chance outside of the US by targeting mid- and low-end devices, but where they're at now is as good as they're going to get in the US.

    But again, I don't think that matters to Microsoft. With their recent focus on services, it doesn't matter which platform uses the services. If they're being used - be it on iOS, Android, or WP - that's all that matters.
    11-09-2014 12:46 PM
  7. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    I didn't say anything about Microsoft gaining market share. Honestly... in my opinion, they won't. Not in the US, at least. They might have a chance outside of the US by targeting mid- and low-end devices, but where they're at now is as good as they're going to get in the US.

    But again, I don't think that matters to Microsoft. With their recent focus on services, it doesn't matter which platform uses the services. If they're being used - be it on iOS, Android, or WP - that's all that matters.
    In which case it makes little sense for customers to invest their hard-earned money in the WP platform and eventually for MS to keep investing in WP development.
    neo158 and Silence#WP like this.
    11-09-2014 12:55 PM
  8. neo158's Avatar
    I didn't say anything about Microsoft gaining market share. Honestly... in my opinion, they won't. Not in the US, at least. They might have a chance outside of the US by targeting mid- and low-end devices, but where they're at now is as good as they're going to get in the US.

    But again, I don't think that matters to Microsoft. With their recent focus on services, it doesn't matter which platform uses the services. If they're being used - be it on iOS, Android, or WP - that's all that matters.
    My point is that if Microsoft are putting "MOBILE first, Cloud first" then shouldn't they be looking to increase their market share in the mobile space which they first lost to Apple and now to Google. The problem is that people aren't going to move to WP from iOS or Android if they can get ALL of the services Microsoft have to offer on their existing platform. I'm assuming that Cortana will be the next thing to be ported across to iOS and Android and in that case what would be the reason for anyone to switch or continue to use Windows Phone.

    Windows Phone already has poor market share as it is and Android got into the dominant position it is today by Google ignoring everyone else and putting their platform first.
    Last edited by neo158; 11-09-2014 at 01:11 PM.
    kristalsoldier and Silence#WP like this.
    11-09-2014 12:58 PM
  9. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    My point is that if Microsoft are putting "MOBILE first, Cloud first" then shouldn't they be looking to increase their market share in the mobile space which they first lost to Apple and now to Google. The problem is that people aren't going to move to WP from iOS or Android if they can get ALL of the services Microsoft have to offer on their existing platform. I'm assuming that Cortana will be the next thing to be ported across to iOS and Android and in that case what would be the reason for anyone to switch or continue to use Windows Phone.

    Windows Phone already has poor market share as it is and Android got into the dominant position it is today by Google ignoring everyone else and putting their platform first.
    Very true! I just wonder how MS is rationalizing this strategy. I wish MS would publish a roadmap of sorts about the WP strategy so that existing and potential customers can work out what the MS thinking is about this. As things stand, MS seems to be all muddled up. Don't get me wrong, I do think their "mobile first/ cloud first" strategy makes a lot of sense, but it completely runs counter to their WP strategy. I can only think of the release of Win 10 that may explain better what MS is thinking and has up its sleeve. But then again, that is potentially a wait till Sept. 2015.
    neo158 and Silence#WP like this.
    11-09-2014 01:11 PM
  10. mon_Wentworth's Avatar
    The thing is pretty simple:
    If you want better apps and faster updates from Microsoft, get an iPhone.

    Microsoft is putting their resources where the people is, and as of right now that is iOS. I think Windows Phone is a hobby for MSFT. They know they are never going to catch up with Google or Apple so they are doing the smart thing giving the top two platforms top notch apps and services.
    Actually, if Apple would follow Microsoft's steps and develop some of their services to other platforms they would grow even bigger.
    I just hope Microsoft is taking Windows 10 for phone a little more seriously than Windows Phone 8, and hey, If they decide to give up the mobile division, I will still use outlook and office on any of the other platforms.
    Silence#WP likes this.
    11-09-2014 01:19 PM
  11. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    And, amidst all this, do you guys know what the tragedy is - at least from my perspective? I think WP 8.1 (at least as per my experience of it on my brand new L830) is an excellent Phone OS. Sure it has some rough edges, but it is well thought out and perhaps with an iteration or two, it would be a very good OS. It is slick. Works well on a range of devices (and screen sizes). Innovative (breaking away from the icon-based design). Heck...I even enjoyed WP 8.0 on my L720! But that question keeps haunting me? Where is WP OS heading towards? And, what is MS doing with its hardware strategy (here I am thinking of the weird trade-offs between the L930 and the L830, the rough spec equivalence between the L830 and the L730/735, among other things)?
    neo158 and Silence#WP like this.
    11-09-2014 01:19 PM
  12. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    True! And, ironic isn't it!
    11-09-2014 01:20 PM
  13. colinkiama's Avatar
    so what is the purpose of this thread?
    11-09-2014 03:14 PM
  14. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    All the logical answers above blame the consumer and tries to make them understand the difficulties MS is having, I think it Microsoft wasn't up to the task they shouldn't have wasted people money on inferior products when they could've offered them their apps on better products. Again all of this can be summed up nicely Satay Nadella doesn't care about windows phone and as such no one should specially new buyers.
    theefman, neo158 and Tom Snyder like this.
    11-09-2014 03:25 PM
  15. onysi's Avatar
    I can understand skype,office and onedrive availability as they can lose their business users, but atleast the first & best update should come to WP which is not the case.

    and to add salt to the injury MS is now releasing age of empires to ios & android which should have remained exclusive.
    Age of Empires: World Domination(iPhone,iPad?Android?Windows Phone)
    is world domination a new name for castle siege? I hope it stays separate. castle siege is so hard to advance with so many players attacking me.
    11-09-2014 04:11 PM
  16. iamtim's Avatar
    My point is that if Microsoft are putting "MOBILE first, Cloud first" then shouldn't they be looking to increase their market share in the mobile space which they first lost to Apple and now to Google. The problem is that people aren't going to move to WP from iOS or Android if they can get ALL of the services Microsoft have to offer on their existing platform.
    Unless I'm mistaken, both iOS and Android are "MOBILE".

    Look, the reality of the situation is that Windows Phone is NEVER going to get much market share in the US with the iOS and Android juggernauts out there, especially with - as you said - Microsoft's own service-based "MOBILE first, Cloud first" strategy. I mean... you honestly can't be reading "MOBILE first, Cloud first" as "Windows Phone first", can you?

    Regardless, by leveraging iOS and Android users via their service-based, mobile, cloud apps, they're reaching their goals. Do you honestly not see that? Windows Phone market share is unimportant to Microsoft when compared to the greater market share of those using Microsoft apps and services on ALL platforms. Microsoft is, by necessity, becoming platform agnostic.
    Visa Declined likes this.
    11-09-2014 04:16 PM
  17. pedmar007's Avatar
    Can't ignore something you don't know EXIST!!! Tell me how is it that Apple uses a DUAL-CORE chip = DUAL CORE, and yet WP people are screaming for QUAD-CORE chips to improve their devices for future purchases. Should Apple's use of lesser processors tell us something that somehow we're missing? I've NEVER read any post here saying how any IPHONE lags, but the ANDROID 4 chip ones do y is that? Apple = knowhow plain and simple!! MS needs to have a sit down with Apple and see how best they can join forces to make premium devices not in direct competition with each other but use hardware that makes both their offerings more appealing to the public than Android. Both IOS and WP share a common philosophy of being simple, direct and functional. I've wondered how does Apple use 2 core chips in their devices and are still able to go toe to toe, one on one with 4 chip beasts found in Samsungs, LGs, HTCs and Sonys and still manage to come away unscathed!!

    Instead of us WP users asking for bigger screens, 4 chip processors and mammoth batteries what we need to do is ask MS to find out how does apple do so MUCH with less. Smaller screens, smaller batteries, less storage, less pixel density, dual core chips and yet people line up for HRS in the rain, sun, snow and high winds waiting for a store guard to unlock the door!! Instead of asking WHEN is a flag-ship phone gonna come out and which OEM maker will join the wagon, what we should be asking is when will MS make what we already have FUNCTION BETTER!!!
    11-09-2014 04:23 PM
  18. spaulagain's Avatar
    All the logical answers above blame the consumer and tries to make them understand the difficulties MS is having, I think it Microsoft wasn't up to the task they shouldn't have wasted people money on inferior products when they could've offered them their apps on better products. Again all of this can be summed up nicely Satay Nadella doesn't care about windows phone and as such no one should specially new buyers.
    Your statement make ZERO sense.

    "If Microsoft wasn't up to the task, they shouldn't have wasted peoples money on inferior products?"

    1. Microsoft is completely up to the task. Windows Phone is a fantastic OS. The UI is gorgeous, and it has many unique features that other platforms are now replicating. Amd with Windows 10 just around the corner, it is clear that MS is up to the task of creating the most robust and impressive OS ever released. Google and Apple having nothing that compares to Windows 10 is, and going to be.

    2. Wasted peoples money? YOU CHOSE TO BUY IT. You are the one that wasted your money if yu bought into WP without knowing it's shortfalls. It's called doing your own due diligence.

    3. Windows and Windows Phone are not inferior products. They have disadvantages, but they also have advantages. If you think they are inferior then why the hell did you buy into? And why are you wasting everyone's time on this board? This is a Windows forum. Clearly people that come here have found value it MS products over the competition in some way or another.
    Laura Knotek and Nabkawe5 like this.
    11-09-2014 04:28 PM
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
    My point is that if Microsoft are putting "MOBILE first, Cloud first" then shouldn't they be looking to increase their market share in the mobile space which they first lost to Apple and now to Google. The problem is that people aren't going to move to WP from iOS or Android if they can get ALL of the services Microsoft have to offer on their existing platform. I'm assuming that Cortana will be the next thing to be ported across to iOS and Android and in that case what would be the reason for anyone to switch or continue to use Windows Phone.

    Windows Phone already has poor market share as it is and Android got into the dominant position it is today by Google ignoring everyone else and putting their platform first.
    Wow, you just keep completely missing the ball game.

    Mobile first means everything MOBILE first. That includes their services like Office on mobile devices like Android and iOS. And like we've said a million times before, Office os one of the key revenue sources MS is pursuing. Windows has taken a back seat as a revenue source in their new model, in fact it looks like Windows 10 may be free indefinitely when it's released.

    It's clear you are too blinded by your own angst to understand a simple business model and common sense business strategy.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-09-2014 04:41 PM
  20. akthelonelyman's Avatar
    So many posted justifying microsoft ignoring their own platform lol... Thing is we people who spent money buying WP thinking atleast microsoft apps will be better here just plainly got shafted... No I don't care if they develop superb apps for iOS and android... But they should also give same for us WP users that's all...i don't know how u people defend inferior apps on WP by the platform owner compared to other platforms. I'm currently happy with my 1520 but when time comes for next phone I doubt I'll jump into market for a WP considering I can get all the apps plus superior versions of microsoft apps on other platforms.. And most people who bought WP and who follows other platforms too will be thinking that...
    Sent from my NOKIA 1520 using Tapatalk
    11-09-2014 04:41 PM
  21. spaulagain's Avatar
    So many posted justifying microsoft ignoring their own platform lol... Thing is we people who spent money buying WP thinking atleast microsoft apps will be better here just plainly got shafted... No I don't care if they develop superb apps for iOS and android... But they should also give same for us WP users that's all...i don't know how u people defend inferior apps on WP by the platform owner compared to other platforms. I'm currently happy with my 1520 but when time comes for next phone I doubt I'll jump into market for a WP considering I can get all the apps plus superior versions of microsoft apps on other platforms.. And most people who bought WP and who follows other platforms too will be thinking that...
    Sent from my NOKIA 1520 using Tapatalk
    WHAT THE ****

    iOS and Android just now got Office within the past 6 months or so. Windows Phone has had Office for over 4 years.

    Windows and Windows RT have superior Office applications. They are FULL Office. Whereas Office for iOS amd Android is trimmed down a lot.

    And has anyone done a feature comparison between iPhone and WP Office apps? Are they really that much different?

    Even if they are. EVERYONE knows MS is working on a new touch optimized version for Windows (including WP) is being worked on and is to be released with Windows 10 this Spring.
    11-09-2014 04:47 PM
  22. neo158's Avatar
    Wow, you just keep completely missing the ball game.

    Mobile first means everything MOBILE first. That includes their services like Office on mobile devices like Android and iOS. And like we've said a million times before, Office os one of the key revenue sources MS is pursuing. Windows has taken a back seat as a revenue source in their new model, in fact it looks like Windows 10 may be free indefinitely when it's released.

    It's clear you are too blinded by your own angst to understand a simple business model and common sense business strategy.
    No I'm not missing the "ball game", Windows Phone is a MOBILE OS as well or don't you think that WP users deserve updates to bring Office on par with other platforms? You said it yourself, WP has had Office for 4+ years and yet it's just the same as it was 4+ years ago.

    The only one blinded here is you, blinded by your love for iOS and Android!!!!
    theefman likes this.
    11-09-2014 05:04 PM
  23. neo158's Avatar
    WHAT THE ****

    iOS and Android just now got Office within the past 6 months or so. Windows Phone has had Office for over 4 years.

    Windows and Windows RT have superior Office applications. They are FULL Office. Whereas Office for iOS amd Android is trimmed down a lot.

    And has anyone done a feature comparison between iPhone and WP Office apps? Are they really that much different?

    Even if they are. EVERYONE knows MS is working on a new touch optimized version for Windows (including WP) is being worked on and is to be released with Windows 10 this Spring.
    I suppose you have inside knowledge and can tell us what devices are getting the ARM version of Windows 10 then?

    How could Windows 10 for ARM be released in the spring and yet the ARM dev preview isn't due until late 2015, so again you must have inside knowledge!!!
    spaulagain likes this.
    11-09-2014 05:06 PM
  24. spaulagain's Avatar
    I suppose you have inside knowledge and can tell us what devices are getting the ARM version of Windows 10 then?
    Lol

    Every device should have no problem getting Windows 10 unless blocked by the carrier. Even then there is always the dev preview.

    Windows 10 will be on Internet of Things devices that have far less specs than even the Lumia 520. So that's not an issue.

    And Windows 10 is built on the same core Windows and Windows Phone 8 are built on. So the WP7 -> WP8 issue does not apply here.

    While no one knows for a fact yet, it's been heavily understood that current devices will get the update. What device are you on?

    If this is a fear you truly have, then I can't help you, and no one here can. You just have to sit back and wait, or go to another platform if you are so scared of not getting the update.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-09-2014 05:15 PM
  25. spaulagain's Avatar
    I suppose you have inside knowledge and can tell us what devices are getting the ARM version of Windows 10 then?

    How could Windows 10 for ARM be released in the spring and yet the ARM dev preview isn't due until late 2015, so again you must have inside knowledge!!!
    No, I said Office touch will be released with Windows 10 this Spring. As far as when Windows 10 will hit every device, no one knows yet. So far MS has laid it out this way. X86 will probably get it first, maybe May or June. Then ARM devices in the summer, with Xbox One following sometime that year probably around the holidays.

    My "Insider Knowledge" is just common sense. If you're here to ***** about a few months difference than good luck living life, because life never delivers when you want it or on time.
    11-09-2014 05:19 PM
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