11-20-2014 07:56 AM
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  1. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    In regards to WC site & App:

    I really wish and hope the WC app is properly optimized because I mainly use it for news and stick to tapatalk for the forums. even on my 1520, i have performance issues that I know are the app and not the phone(Lag here or there and random issues).

    The site bothers me simply because it is a smidge laggy and jerky
    on IE of all browsers....Imore works better with IE imo which bothers me. That's like safari not working properly with Imore or chrome with AC.

    It's fine, we all get worked up over phones sometimes :) No hard feelings.


    In regards to your post while you are fully entitled to your opinion(and I accept it as different), I do find one issue I directly have to call out. It has nothing to do with entitlement. If I were an 8x owner(And originally I was an 8x owner prior to Lumia), I'd be extremely annoyed that we're at 7-8 months and I still have yet to see an official Windows Phone 8.1 update.

    When you buy these phones and begin seeing that not all windows phones are created or treated equal, that makes people not want to use this OS. It's Unfortunate Fragmentation. Most Lumias have been or are being updated currently to official 8.1...even Samsung's devices are as well.

    When you say entitled, it sounds like you're saying that we should just be happy with the phone having Windows Phone 8. And that is true.....for when Windows Phone 8 was relevant. However when we buy this phone, We're not buying it JUST for the proper support, we're buying it because we expect these OEMs to support this device with updates and fixes over the span of the warranty at least or a year or two.

    And HTC's support is so horrible in that sense. While those Lumia updates may be insignificant or inferior to you, they are PRECISELY why most Lumia fans still support and want LUMIA phones. You keep saying they are Lumia specific apps or Lumia specific hardware...that's the point.

    For Lumia fans, there is really no compelling reason for us to switch to HTC because there is no comparison for us.

    Comparing a Lumia 820 of yesteryear 2012 to the m8 windows of 2014 is highly unfair. For starters, the battery life IS much bigger on a M8. I'd hope battery life is better and the build quality was better lol. That argument is a bit flawed. Had you compared an Icon/930 to the M8 windows, I could see something(and even then I still think Icon/930 hardware is awesome...which the 1520 was built that way). But not a 2 year old MID-range phone vs a High End phone.

    Using a phrase like "I settled on the One" does not bode well for One M8 fans as it seems many people are settling simply because of a lack of a lumia flagship(Which saddens me).

    I prefer the capacitive buttons. I get my FULL REAL ESTATE. I've never had any issues with Capacitive. While I wouldn't mind onscreen, I'd greatly prefer they keep Capacitive.

    -Potential for Hey Cortana.....The 8x has the potential for Windows Phone 8.1. Let's see if they get it and even if they do get it, let's not hold out hope for windows 10. LOL I don't worry about Potential since my phone was already announced for it coming out for it :D

    Again this "potential" is something I don't have to worry about with my 1520 simply because my OEM(now Microsoft) has shown to properly support their devices and not leave us out in the cold. Hey cortana is something i'll likely never use much but to know I have it is still good.

    I chose Lumia for
    -App Support at the time.....I originally had the 8x and I realized JUST how much better Nokias were. I loved the 8x design hated HTC support. I've enjoyed the best windows phone experience the last 2 years and had I stayed with HTC, I likely wouldn't be the big WP fanboy I am. A pretty phone with poor support. But hey at least(like the M8) it's pretty. *eyeroll* lol

    -For the excellent hardware, aside from a few minor issues here or there, I've always been impressed with the hardware of Lumia. I never was bothered by the thickness of my 920 or 928, I owned the 810 which is the ugliest Lumia ever created but still I loved it, My 1020 was boss and my 1520 is a titan and I love it. Have missed it.

    -The Camera...nuff said

    -Lumia Apps(Shame we lost Here maps to the other lesser WP but throw some people a bone I say)

    -Amazing Updates(Amber, Black, Cyan and Denim) that build upon an already great OS.

    -Security and reassurance that it is very likely I will get all major updates(Coupled with the fact that I also chose the best US carrier for WP, att) and get them in a speedy amount of time.

    ^HTC can't reassure me of that stuff :D
    And the fact that you call it silly I put stock in OFFICIAL updates over DP is laughable. That's when you can tell when someone is trying to rationalize purchasing a M8 over a Lumia...and doing a lot of reaching.

    You're right, I put a lot of stock in the OFFICIAL UPDATE over DP simply because I like to know the software I am installing has been properly tested and optimized for my phone and that if I brick it with an ofifical update it is not my fault. I can't exactly send my 1520 back to Att with DP and say "AN update screwed my phone up". Let's see how far I get with that lol.

    SO yeah Official updates & having a phone that will get them > a phone running DP.

    And you're absolutely right. Dot View is an inferior Glance and that case alone makes what is a beautiful device look extremely cheap. I showed it to my friend and he literally was like "What the H is that? That looks stupid."

    LMAO

    Maybe I overreacted- I apologize. But when you sit down and think about it, the firmware updates aren't really placing the Lumias at a significant advantage. I trimmed down your list to what is actually relevant and tweaked it to reflect the fact that many of the firmware updates apply to specific phones- you can't really use them to make a case for lumia vs not lumia, since it's really specific devices vs specific devices.

    A
    - the One has an inferior competitor to glance, but still, it's there, and has a potential to be updated. Not all lumias have glance, and dotview is better than nothing.
    - Flip to mute is a standard feature for HTC. It has been on the oldest HTC phones, it has been on their WP7 devices, and it is on this one.
    -Call block and color profile: I don't know if the One has these. I played with a One at the MS store but did not think to look for that.
    B
    -You've named a bunch of nokia specific apps that aren't related to the firmware.
    -RAW support on very few select lumia devices (if it's not just the 1020 and only the 1020 like I think it is...)
    C
    -You've named more apps unrelated to the firmware for some reason
    -HTC One has miracast, most lumias don't.
    D
    -"Hey cortana" on very few specific lumias with supporting hardware.
    -HTC One has the hardware required for "hey cortana", so this is literally the only thing HTC needs to implement in an update. Since my alternate choice, the 830, doesn't have the required hardware, I either get it or I don't on the One; I'll be content either way.

    Updates are good, and Lumias certainly have regular updates. But how much you benefit from the updates greatly depends on what lumia you have. It's not all sunshine and roses like you seem to think it is. You'll also notice that the One actually has most of these features that the updates brought, so it's on par with whatever the newest Lumia is that has glance and can support "hey cortana" and miracast- I do not know if such a lumia even exists at this time.

    I eventually settled on the One for these facts
    -Capacitive buttons suck. They're terrible. The HTC One's onscreen solution is actually very nice- it's much better than capacitive buttons. I'd prefer all hardware buttons but HTC's implementations of onscreen buttons is very acceptable.
    -Potential for "hey cortana"
    -In the past, I've had the HTC Pure, HTC HD2, and HTC Titan. The build quality is amazing on each. My satisfaction with each was 100%, both software and hardware. I never got an update from HTC for any of those phones. I never expected an update. My experiences with the 820... well I love the thing to death, but between the abysmal battery life, the capacitive buttons and the just-OK build quality, I'd say I'm 90% satisfied with the 820. And when looking at the 830, well, not much is different. It's nearly the same device, and the updated hardware isn't that substantial. HTC One is one sexy device with great build quality, and it's got the killer hardware.

    I guess I realized that, I was content without updates before. Under nokia, we got a few things (most of which the device really should have launched with) and suddenly we feel entitled to updates? No, that's bad logic. Any updates from HTC will be a pleasant surprise- I don't think feeling entitled to new features is a smart way to approach this. Meanwhile, the dev preview will still be giving me much more than the firmware updates have ever done, anyway. It is silly to place as much stock as you do in the firmware updates from nokia. They're nice. They're not deciding factors. Most of what nokia firmware has brought us was just nokia playing catch up with features that should have been there at launch.

    Yeah I know that specs don't have a lot of effect on WP, but processing power DOES count in the browser, and have you been to windowscentral lately? They really need to go back and rework the comment voting system- the javascript is so dense it even performs terribly on PC! I avoid going to the website because I don't care about comments I just want to read the article, and it takes forever to process the crappy JS. The 820 is equivalent to a 920 in specs, and many news sites are designed just as poorly- bloated with crappy JS. I think for my first app I'll try to make a simple browser that disables JS... Until then, the extra power in the One will be appreciated, as I spend a lot of time in the browser.
    link68759 likes this.
    11-19-2014 10:07 AM
  2. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Well said. The updates thing can be such a scam to sell more phones. I'd rather my phone have all it needs to work out of the box well, than to get a ton of updates to an average product to eventually make it really good.

    If I still owned a HTC (they'll always be in my top 4 favorite brands), I would just simply like them to update their core apps a little more often. That's it. If they did that, you'd hear more silence from some of the blind Lumia worshipers out there...

    Posted Approved 1+1 Style!
    LMAO the update thing is a scam to sell more phones? And you then end your paragraph with "Blind Lumia Worshippers".
    Oh my.

    The updates don't make my phone work better...they had more amazing features to an already amazing phone and Windows Phone experience lol.

    I am not blind. I can acknowledge the One m8 is a beautiful device.

    But I am also not nave to sit here and call it the best. Build Quality is highly subjective(I prefer Lumia but I wouldn't necessarily oppose HTC).

    Aside from an IR blaster(irrelevant to most) and the FF speakers, there is really nothing I am missing on my 1520 that the M8 has however switching to a M8 would mean I am losing quite a bit of apps I use regularly with Nokia and a much weaker and anemic camera. But hey at least its fast :D

    Lumia Worshippers? No. We simply chose the best and if your preferred OEM actually would've held on to the lead they had in the Windows Mobile days that people love to keep referencing and Early WP7 days, they wouldn't be thought of as inferior and irrelevant :P That's HTC fault for the reputation they have. It's time to stop making excuses for them lol.

    Even D. Rubino acknowledges while the hardware is great, the support behind HTC is questionable and concerning. I've seen it before in the Lumia 830 vs Htc one articles :D
    11-19-2014 10:15 AM
  3. thesachd's Avatar
    If I we're to recommend a Windows Phone flagship, the M8 for Windows is a definite consideration.

    But if I we're to recommend a flagship regardless of whatever OS, the M8 for Windows wouldn't be worthy, IMO, of much (if any) attention.
    Nogitsune Micah and MSFTisMIA like this.
    11-19-2014 10:18 AM
  4. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    If I we're to recommend a Windows Phone flagship, the M8 for Windows is a definite consideration.

    But if I we're to recommend a flagship regardless of whatever OS, the M8 for Windows wouldn't be worthy, IMO, of much (if any) attention.
    So on android hypothetically what would
    You recommend.
    11-19-2014 10:24 AM
  5. Jazmac's Avatar
    I would recommend the HTC One M8 in a NY minute. It runs WP 8.1 brilliantly.
    link68759 and MSFTisMIA like this.
    11-19-2014 10:24 AM
  6. thesachd's Avatar
    So on android hypothetically what would
    You recommend.
    I'm not entirely sure about the Android side.
    11-19-2014 11:50 AM
  7. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I'm not entirely sure about the Android side.
    I'd probably recommend it on the android side. I'd likely own one if I could stomach using android lol.

    On android their camera aside from Sony aren't that great so id choose an HTC. Plus the only real alternative is Samsung and their phones are not that great imo.

    But id never recommend a one over a Lumia on windows phone Unless They were truly music fiends and even then id be like ehh.
    11-19-2014 12:04 PM
  8. link68759's Avatar
    Well said. The updates thing can be such a scam to sell more phones. I'd rather my phone have all it needs to work out of the box well, than to get a ton of updates to an average product to eventually make it really good.

    If I still owned a HTC (they'll always be in my top 4 favorite brands), I would just simply like them to update their core apps a little more often. That's it. If they did that, you'd hear more silence from some of the blind Lumia worshipers out there...

    Posted Approved 1+1 Style!


    In all fairness, the reason these phones didn't launch with those features was because WP8.0 didn't support those features. They couldn't begin writing firmware until they knew what they were hooking into. I wouldn't call it a scam, but I do think that the updates gave an illusion of grandeur. Now that all of the hardware features have been enabled, firmware is likely going to contain less and come less often.



    Meanwhile the HTC One had the good fortune to launch at a time when the OS (WP8.1) supports all the hardware the One brings, so HTC can get it out at launch without having to wait for WP8.2 or WP10. However, the HTC One IS launching without hey Cortana because hey Cortana doesn't exist yet.
    MSFTisMIA likes this.
    11-19-2014 03:13 PM
  9. etphoto's Avatar
    Yes, the M8 is a very good phone.
    Jazmac likes this.
    11-19-2014 04:15 PM
  10. link68759's Avatar
    And the fact that you call it silly I put stock in OFFICIAL updates over DP is laughable. That's when you can tell when someone is trying to rationalize purchasing a M8 over a Lumia...and doing a lot of reaching.

    You're right, I put a lot of stock in the OFFICIAL UPDATE over DP simply because I like to know the software I am installing has been properly tested and optimized for my phone and that if I brick it with an ofifical update it is not my fault. I can't exactly send my 1520 back to Att with DP and say "AN update screwed my phone up". Let's see how far I get with that lol.
    SO yeah Official updates & having a phone that will get them > a phone running DP.
    Regarding the potential bugginess of the dev preview- considering that the dev preview does in fact release the exact same "final version" that is sent to carriers, if an "official" update fixed an issue you had in the dev preview, hands down it was almost certainly an issue in the install process or conflicting setting that could have been fixed with a reflash+hardreset combo. Moreover, people with issues with the dev preview are a vocal minority- chances of something going wrong in the first place aren't that great, and official updates are just as susceptible to bugs in the installation process and under the hood setting conflicts. The developer preview is in fact well tested before it gets sent out to us. The developer preview is not any less reliable than official updates. I'm not reaching.

    It's fine, we all get worked up over phones sometimes :) No hard feelings.

    In regards to your post while you are fully entitled to your opinion(and I accept it as different), I do find one issue I directly have to call out. It has nothing to do with entitlement. If I were an 8x owner(And originally I was an 8x owner prior to Lumia), I'd be extremely annoyed that we're at 7-8 months and I still have yet to see an official Windows Phone 8.1 update.
    .....
    When you say entitled, it sounds like you're saying that we should just be happy with the phone having Windows Phone 8. And that is true.....for when Windows Phone 8 was relevant. However when we buy this phone, We're not buying it JUST for the proper support, we're buying it because we expect these OEMs to support this device with updates and fixes over the span of the warranty at least or a year or two.
    Well, allow me to make a distinction. I think we are entitled to OS updates (within reason). I've heard the argument that you are only entitled to what the phone came out of the box with, but I disagree with that in this day and age. As long as I have access to the developer preview, I will have those updates. I do not think we are entitled to firmware updates though- not unless the device would be crippled without it.

    Comparing a Lumia 820 of yesteryear 2012 to the m8 windows of 2014 is highly unfair. For starters, the battery life IS much bigger on a M8. I'd hope battery life is better and the build quality was better lol. That argument is a bit flawed. Had you compared an Icon/930 to the M8 windows, I could see something(and even then I still think Icon/930 hardware is awesome...which the 1520 was built that way). But not a 2 year old MID-range phone vs a High End phone.
    I compared the 820 to the HTC One and the 830 simply because I am not interested in any other existing Lumia devices. I narrowed my choices down to the 830 and HTC One, and so I must compare the two against my current phone. No it's not fair, but there also wasn't much of a selection to choose from either.

    Using a phrase like "I settled on the One" does not bode well for One M8 fans as it seems many people are settling simply because of a lack of a lumia flagship(Which saddens me).
    Yes, the HTC One has a lot of downsides (see my first post in this thread!) and I was initially VERY concerned with leaving Nokia because of their awesome support. I still am a little wary of leaving. But I very carefully looked at what I got from the updates, what the One ships with, and how much it would actually impact me personally to not get the remaining updates. I came out of my research knowing near exactly what I will be giving up, and it allowed me to make an informed decision. Had there been more new Lumias to choose from, I might never had considered HTC in a fair light and would still be devotedly singing praises for Nokia. But this is not a new problem for Nokia. The reason I got the 820 is because I wanted an SD card and not a huge phone (and removable batteries are great). The 820 has a lot of shortcomings, but two years ago, Nokia still didn't have a great selection of devices so I had to settle for the 820. Nor did they ever have a great selection in all the time they've been on WP. Nokia's has ALWAYS been unable to pump out varied selections of devices- no carrier can do that all by themselves!

    I prefer the capacitive buttons. I get my FULL REAL ESTATE. I've never had any issues with Capacitive. While I wouldn't mind onscreen, I'd greatly prefer they keep Capacitive.
    Yeah capacitive buttons work, and when you get used to them they aren't an issue (except at night when you can't turn off the damn lights), but they are an inferior implementation nonetheless. What do you mean by real estate? Arguably the onscreen buttons give you more screen real estate, since the buttons can be minimized at any time and the screen will fill where they were. Here's a picture of the buttons hidden.
    Also arguably, HW buttons take up less screen real estate than capacitive buttons, because they can be (and usually are) narrow and rectangular, whereas capacitive are square. Here's the HD2, lord of all phones. Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of HD2, May HD2's passing cleanse the world. :)

    -Potential for Hey Cortana.....The 8x has the potential for Windows Phone 8.1. Let's see if they get it and even if they do get it, let's not hold out hope for windows 10. LOL I don't worry about Potential since my phone was already announced for it coming out for it :D
    I don't know for certain, but I was unable to find any reports of the 8x not supporting the developer preview. The current version of the dev preview contains the current release of 8.1. The potential for 8.1 on the 8x is realized.

    I chose Lumia for
    -App Support at the time.....I originally had the 8x and I realized JUST how much better Nokias were. I loved the 8x design hated HTC support. I've enjoyed the best windows phone experience the last 2 years and had I stayed with HTC, I likely wouldn't be the big WP fanboy I am. A pretty phone with poor support. But hey at least(like the M8) it's pretty. *eyeroll* lol.
    ...............
    -Lumia Apps(Shame we lost Here maps to the other lesser WP but throw some people a bone I say)
    Yeah leaving nokia means I give up living images (the only thing I really cared about), maybe storyteller. But when I thought about that too, they are rather gimmicky. Living images works on WP and only on WP right? Exporting the pictures to PC, they will be static, non moving. I don't exclusively view pictures on my phone. Without support for these features on other platforms, as they are now they are a gimmick. Without support on PC or elsewhere they cannot be anything but momentary amusement.
    I don't use any other nokia apps though so I'm not too sorry to not have them.
    That said, given that nokia's apps are as good as they are and other OEMs don't offer as many quality apps, and now that nokia is a part of microsoft, Nokia's apps really shouldn't be restricted to lumia phones. We want people to join the platform, and not everyone wants a lumia. I want to see the WP platform grow, and the fragmenting of quality apps isn't helping.
    11-19-2014 05:38 PM
  11. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    As far as DP goes, even if they are a vocal minority....EVERYONE will always choose the Official and Carrier tested version. Even I had a few glitches here and there with DP. It messed up my Mic on my phone and it made my 1520 annoying to use. Sorry DP access is not a plus for me, when I can easily just choose an OEM who actually releases the OS updates within at least 3 months.

    First let me say....Enjoy your M8. It is a shame that you can't debate the phones(lumia and Non-lumia) with most people who feel so threatened and insulted that you aren't praising HTC and ignoring their obvious shortcomings and failures :P So this was definitely a good debate :D

    That being said, I still find Lumia superior and I find most other High end windows phone "Good enough"(See the Ativ SE and M8) yet not good enough to be a WOW factor. Lumia Camera= Wow factor....

    Boomsound speaker= Cool but not something really impresses people :D

    I've been thrilled by all of Nokia hardware and I think the majority of the users have been and why we are all clamoring for more.
    Very few people in the WP community are clamoring for Android rehashes like the M8. It may be good for the platform but it also hurts the platform when they release said device nearly 6 months after the android version. Regardless if the OS supports the phone at the time or not, MENTION it....They could have said something about it at build or whatever. Then the phone still lacks a few of the Android version's features so it still isn't a 100 percent identical.

    I want unique hardware and Quality support from my OEM...I get that from Lumia. I don't have to worry about feeling like I have a hand me down from Android or someone confusing it with Android(See M8 lol). It's why I dislike apps being ported over and not utilizing creative features of Modern/Metro UI.

    However.....

    I really wish people would stop saying Microsoft should release Lumia apps to all OEMs. If that ever happens, then I am leaving Lumia and Windows Phone for good. Because why on earth should Microsoft/Nokia release ALL their apps. it's not fragmenting. Every OEM has their own distinct apps, Nokia just has the best selection.

    It's unfair that people expect that Lumia apps should be on WIndows Phone entirely yet rarely ever does anyone mention HTC or Samsung apps coming to all windows phone(probably because they are crap lol).

    What it sounds like to me is "Eh, I'm well aware that HTC support is shaky and they have crap apps. Microsoft should realize that and release the best apps of Lumia so we can somehow validate our poor choice in supporting an OEM who lacks quality apps."

    That is one thing that ALWAYS annoys me when I read because Microsoft(and formerly Nokia) are OEM and they need a hook and a signature reason to buy their Windows Phone.

    People want Lumia camera to come to other WIndows Phones......Yeah no.

    My response is....Get a Lumia if you want the apps and the features of the OS :) Microsoft has made a lot of dumb choices in regards to pushing out better versions of their apps to android and IOS. I can understand that to a degree...

    However taking exclusive and signature features of Lumia and devaluing the brand itself to give lesser phones like the M8 or Ativ or whatever those apps, will definitely be the reason I finally leave Lumia for good :P

    One thing I love about WIndows Phone 8 over 7....ALL WINDOWS PHONES ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL.

    WIndows Phone 7 may have had varied hardware design yet the phone and the OS was the exact same(basically WP 7 was iPhone like) no matter the phone and it became boring.

    Same apps more or less, Same way of working, very little differentiation. On Ios that is fine, but I am glad that the OS varies now and that the WP experience is not exactly the same and I believe devaluing the Lumia brand and removing all of it is plusses and signature features just to appease a minority(3-5 percent of the overall WP users are Non-lumia) who chose lesser would be a stupid choice.

    Let Microsoft have their competitive advantage and edge and those who want the apps, get Lumia. If you don't want Lumia, then hope HTC will do something useful and make the apps :D
    Regarding the potential bugginess of the dev preview- considering that the dev preview does in fact release the exact same "final version" that is sent to carriers, if an "official" update fixed an issue you had in the dev preview, hands down it was almost certainly an issue in the install process or conflicting setting that could have been fixed with a reflash+hardreset combo. Moreover, people with issues with the dev preview are a vocal minority- chances of something going wrong in the first place aren't that great, and official updates are just as susceptible to bugs in the installation process and under the hood setting conflicts. The developer preview is in fact well tested before it gets sent out to us. The developer preview is not any less reliable than official updates. I'm not reaching.



    Well, allow me to make a distinction. I think we are entitled to OS updates (within reason). I've heard the argument that you are only entitled to what the phone came out of the box with, but I disagree with that in this day and age. As long as I have access to the developer preview, I will have those updates. I do not think we are entitled to firmware updates though- not unless the device would be crippled without it.



    I compared the 820 to the HTC One and the 830 simply because I am not interested in any other existing Lumia devices. I narrowed my choices down to the 830 and HTC One, and so I must compare the two against my current phone. No it's not fair, but there also wasn't much of a selection to choose from either.



    Yes, the HTC One has a lot of downsides (see my first post in this thread!) and I was initially VERY concerned with leaving Nokia because of their awesome support. I still am a little wary of leaving. But I very carefully looked at what I got from the updates, what the One ships with, and how much it would actually impact me personally to not get the remaining updates. I came out of my research knowing near exactly what I will be giving up, and it allowed me to make an informed decision. Had there been more new Lumias to choose from, I might never had considered HTC in a fair light and would still be devotedly singing praises for Nokia. But this is not a new problem for Nokia. The reason I got the 820 is because I wanted an SD card and not a huge phone (and removable batteries are great). The 820 has a lot of shortcomings, but two years ago, Nokia still didn't have a great selection of devices so I had to settle for the 820. Nor did they ever have a great selection in all the time they've been on WP. Nokia's has ALWAYS been unable to pump out varied selections of devices- no carrier can do that all by themselves!



    Yeah capacitive buttons work, and when you get used to them they aren't an issue (except at night when you can't turn off the damn lights), but they are an inferior implementation nonetheless. What do you mean by real estate? Arguably the onscreen buttons give you more screen real estate, since the buttons can be minimized at any time and the screen will fill where they were. Here's a picture of the buttons hidden. http://cdn2.ubergizmo.com/wp-content...ne-640x439.jpg
    Also arguably, HW buttons take up less screen real estate than capacitive buttons, because they can be (and usually are) narrow and rectangular, whereas capacitive are square. Here's the HD2, lord of all phones. http://cdn1.sbnation.com/products/la...jpg?1311041520 Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of HD2, May HD2's passing cleanse the world. :)


    I don't know for certain, but I was unable to find any reports of the 8x not supporting the developer preview. The current version of the dev preview contains the current release of 8.1. The potential for 8.1 on the 8x is realized.



    Yeah leaving nokia means I give up living images (the only thing I really cared about), maybe storyteller. But when I thought about that too, they are rather gimmicky. Living images works on WP and only on WP right? Exporting the pictures to PC, they will be static, non moving. I don't exclusively view pictures on my phone. Without support for these features on other platforms, as they are now they are a gimmick. Without support on PC or elsewhere they cannot be anything but momentary amusement.
    I don't use any other nokia apps though so I'm not too sorry to not have them.
    That said, given that nokia's apps are as good as they are and other OEMs don't offer as many quality apps, and now that nokia is a part of microsoft, Nokia's apps really shouldn't be restricted to lumia phones. We want people to join the platform, and not everyone wants a lumia. I want to see the WP platform grow, and the fragmenting of quality apps isn't helping.
    link68759 likes this.
    11-19-2014 06:03 PM
  12. link68759's Avatar
    Eh, if we had a healthy selection of OEM phones, and a healthy pool of apps, I'd agree- nokia should keep their apps to themselves.

    When companies compete with exclusive services, the customer loses. When we have an extremely small market that needs to expand and there's one company with a monopoly on the market and that company gives exclusive services- the market loses, because the company with a monopoly is preventing expansion. It's not sustainable. We need WP to grow and be adopted by other OEMs, we need to give them a chance to compete. Then Nokia can have as many exclusive apps as they want. Until that time, their exclusive apps hurts themselves, the customers, and the whole WP economy.

    Besides, a bunch of Nokia's many camera apps require pureview hardware anyway so they'll still have that. And sensorcore. and glance. and so on.
    Nogitsune Micah likes this.
    11-19-2014 07:09 PM
  13. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Personally, we do not need these other OEMs.

    The problem with Windows Phone has never been a lack of hardware. In the Wp7 there were WAY more OEMs and varieties in products. You had Horizontal sliders, the vertical sldier(Dell Venue Pro), HTC surround(It slid out with speakers), The Focus line up(Basically the WP7 version of the ativ line), Radar, Big Screen phones like the HD7 and later Titan/Titan 2.

    Arguably enough there were MORE hardware choices in the WP7 days ironically than presently in the Wp8 era.

    I wish people would realize WP is not being held back because we need OEMs to adopt the OS. That is not true at all.

    We need apps...We need apps...We need apps.

    Considering we have HTC and Samsung releasing phones and a slew of Irrelevant OEMs releasing hardware, and they combined together don't make up more than 5 percent of the overall userbase, that is sad in itself.

    Fact is, Microsoft should start throwing money at these big name developers, setting up agreements and what not and working to get the OS these key and signature apps and working to get the apps we have on par.

    I personally would love Microsoft to drop all the other OEMs(They aren't doing anything substantial and losing them really won't do much. As we saw in 2013, the Lumia 520 alone carried the entire platform majority of the year...the 1520, 1020 and other flagships didn't nor will the M8 or 930).

    Drop the other OEMs, embrace an apple culture.....and together with Surface, Lumia and Windows 10 create a key unique ecosystem.

    The Android Method is not working for them because no matter how many OEMs make a windows phone, the majority of the users will not use them as they prefer Lumia and then you have a catch 22. If customers are not buying these phones, then they blame the OS and saying poor adoption.

    On Android, Choice is more prevalent and even then.....Most choose one of the big 3(Moto, Samsung and LG).....to the point that Sony and HTC are struggling as they are. It may have worked in Android's early days.,......and it may have worked in Wp7 days but as Android and WP have evolved, people have settled in the Galaxy S camp majorly(Followed by The LG and Moto Camps) and are unlikely to leave the camps..same with Lumia.

    So I don't see anything wrong with them having exclusive apps. LEt Microsoft, Samsung, HTC, and other OEMs have their unique apps.

    It differentiates their phones and the user experience while not weakening the overall WP experience. We still ALL have the same Windows Phone experience.....There is no fragmentation.

    This is not Android....not quite yet.

    The market is not losing simply because the market has chosen by the majority of owners to already own their preferred Brand(Lumia).

    Your argument is slightly flawed......in my opinion. In the small market, it appears to be a dominant player(Lumia) who has exclusives and signature features. While unfair(I don't see it), the minority is at best 3-5 percent.

    However, let's look at Android...if Samsung had exclusive Android features or apps from Google, then that is worse simply because Samsung may be the dominant player but there are still viable competitors to the point where a larger number of users are being slighted. I could understand exclusives being wrong in that case.

    However in a small market like WP, where the majority has chosen Lumia and the rest of the OEms really don't matter(And look...HTC disappeared for over a year and Samsung released one phone and neither of them mattered at all lol), the market is not losing out. Since 95 percent of the users are benefiting from it. I don't view it as a monopoly simply because they have SPECIFIC APPS lol

    OEM apps does not Equal OS Features...
    That's silly.

    I could see you saying it being unfair if Action Center being an exclusive feature on Lumia but the Samsung Ativ or one One m8 can't get it at all...That's an unfair advantage.

    Creative Studio or Mix radio not being on the M8 is perfectly fair...same as Beats Audio was only on HTC 8x.
    Eh, if we had a healthy selection of OEM phones, and a healthy pool of apps, I'd agree- nokia should keep their apps to themselves.

    When companies compete with exclusive services, the customer loses. When we have an extremely small market that needs to expand and there's one company with a monopoly on the market and that company gives exclusive services- the market loses, because the company with a monopoly is preventing expansion. It's not sustainable. We need WP to grow and be adopted by other OEMs, we need to give them a chance to compete. Then Nokia can have as many exclusive apps as they want. Until that time, their exclusive apps hurts themselves, the customers, and the whole WP economy.

    Besides, a bunch of Nokia's many camera apps require pureview hardware anyway so they'll still have that. And sensorcore. and glance. and so on.
    link68759 likes this.
    11-19-2014 07:43 PM
  14. jfdavis17's Avatar
    I have a Lumia 1520 and a HTC one M8. Both are great phones, but the HTC in my opinion is the flagship phone of 2014 for windows phone. I love lumia's, you might say I have a nice collection of them. But HTC and Samsung and other companies have alot to offer windows. With the current user base, if a different brand of phone brings any windows users on board it is a good thing.
    MSFTisMIA likes this.
    11-19-2014 08:10 PM
  15. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    LMAO the update thing is a scam to sell more phones? And you then end your paragraph with "Blind Lumia Worshippers".
    Oh my.

    The updates don't make my phone work better...they had more amazing features to an already amazing phone and Windows Phone experience lol.

    I am not blind. I can acknowledge the One m8 is a beautiful device.

    But I am also not nave to sit here and call it the best. Build Quality is highly subjective(I prefer Lumia but I wouldn't necessarily oppose HTC).

    Aside from an IR blaster(irrelevant to most) and the FF speakers, there is really nothing I am missing on my 1520 that the M8 has however switching to a M8 would mean I am losing quite a bit of apps I use regularly with Nokia and a much weaker and anemic camera. But hey at least its fast :D

    Lumia Worshippers? No. We simply chose the best and if your preferred OEM actually would've held on to the lead they had in the Windows Mobile days that people love to keep referencing and Early WP7 days, they wouldn't be thought of as inferior and irrelevant :P That's HTC fault for the reputation they have. It's time to stop making excuses for them lol.

    Even D. Rubino acknowledges while the hardware is great, the support behind HTC is questionable and concerning. I've seen it before in the Lumia 830 vs Htc one articles :D
    There are a few old sayings that apply to your post I quoted:

    "who the cap fits, let them wear it." Or "throw a rock in a pig sty and the pig who squeals loudest was the one you hit with the rock".

    Peter Chou and Chairwoman Wang don't need me to make excuses for HTC. All I have done is simply pointed out the facts: pre-iPhone, OEMs focused on using new hardware first to evolve and introduce new software. Post iPhone it is about the added functionality of the phones and using software to maximize the length of the device and build customer loyalty.

    The pace at which technology evolves and how hard these OEMs work to stay in your pocket, if you buy a phone for what it could do in the future you'll be disappointed by seeing your friend with the newer phone that better fit what you wanted next week.

    HTC is struggling because of some choices Peter Chou made. That's a proven fact, including misreading the market, among other things. HTC still makes good hardware. If I didn't value Nokia's camera tech as much as I do (and the fact i want a nostalgia device since Nokia as we know it is dead) - which makes how I feel about the 1520's camera even more disappointing - I'd own a One for Windows + a Z3 as my dual setup.

    Also, if you read carefully, I blamed MSFT for its slow update pace of the OS itself. HTC was ready to do the Android port from the M7, but MSFT too so long to roll out support for bigger screens and quad core chips (like it is doing now), they passed on it. Nokia had to provide stellar support because they were using one OS and MSFT was footing the bill.

    You're entitled to your opinion, sure...but I'd still recommend the One for Windows over most of Nokia's offerings right now. Only the 930 and 1520 equal it...i wouldn't pick the 830 over it, unless you're on a tight budget. But to each his own....
    11-20-2014 07:56 AM
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