03-20-2015 10:56 AM
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  1. anon(8985111)'s Avatar
    Look at some statistics and you will find that the very average user might not even have bought a single app over the entire period he had been using his smartphone.

    Inarguably, the issue of switching the platform persists, but how many of these supposedly Android locked-in folks are using a Windows computer simultaneously? And, while time are still changing, from my understanding it is way harder to completely give up on Windows rather than on an OS for a phone or tablet.

    Everyone here should start realizing that the demands of "real people" (as MJF rightfully refers to it) are way different to the ones from us tech-savvy users posting on this forums.
    12-21-2014 09:18 PM
  2. doob9911's Avatar
    I tried lumia 520. Some basic features and critical apps are not available.
    But I have already bought wp phone, so that may be not reason not to buy.
    I think real reason is market saturation and wp is too late to gain market share.
    MS was too fat and too slow. They ignored mobile devices.

    But MS should not worry. It can keep making wp phone even if it is not success.
    And it has best sw and service like office and outlook.com.
    Mobile market is saturated and will be wiped out by Chinese vendors.
    MS will survive at least.

    So wp users!
    Just enjoy your phone if you like it.
    Why complain about market share?
    Do you work for MS? Come on.
    12-21-2014 09:29 PM
  3. jonnaver's Avatar
    Look at some statistics and you will find that the very average user might not even have bought a single app over the entire period he had been using his smartphone.

    Inarguably, the issue of switching the platform persists, but how many of these supposedly Android locked-in folks are using a Windows computer simultaneously? And, while time are still changing, from my understanding it is way harder to completely give up on Windows rather than on an OS for a phone or tablet.

    Everyone here should start realizing that the demands of "real people" (as MJF rightfully refers to it) are way different to the ones from us tech-savvy users posting on this forums.
    What statistics? In the Himalayan mountain range? Any source that made that claim would be highly questionable.
    12-22-2014 05:44 PM
  4. Beppe Gissi's Avatar
    What Microsoft really lacks right now is THE device. Not a flagship, but the perfect mid/low range one.

    630 is the closest one, but it has no FFC, no sensors and no flash. 535 has a bad display and that slow S200. 735 costs too much to be a real best seller.

    They just should do a 640, sell it at a good price and advertise it everywhere as THE Lumia and the best thing you can buy with less than 200 . At least, these are my two cents.
    12-22-2014 05:53 PM
  5. Jean Sagarese's Avatar
    It lacks a true flagship I will not and cannot use a phone with a small screen it strains my eyes. I was thrilled with my 1020 absolutely loved it and besides a point and shoot it was the only camera I took on my trip to Hawaii and the pictures were fabulous. Then this August we find out that it won't get all the benefits of Denim and that it will not be supported much longer. I will miss Cortana and the live tiles but I won't miss the App gap for most of the apps I would be using on a daily basis. I have no clue why Microsoft doesn't work with companies so that when something is mentioned to be downloaded the symbol for Windows is also there. Today I asked the NHL where was a app for the Windows Phone and no reply most companies seem to not give a damn about the untapped potential of the Windows Phone and Windows users even on the tablets or desktop
    12-22-2014 10:43 PM
  6. ivdza's Avatar
    I just bought Galaxy S3...i was playing around with 930 but really i cant believe that resuming and loading is stiil issue with lot of apps....
    Its not problem with app gap,it is problem with whole company...they i suppose can not organize them like they should do.*
    I will wear my 520 like second phone. I wanted to buy 930 or spare 920..but SGS3 is like Ferrari compared to 930,830 etc etc. I compared them and i think they are not match for Galaxy S series.. . I bought my 520 when it was out to try WP but now....hmmm i will wait a lityle further but if they dont change things i am out for sure.
    I want WP to become more serious system so i can come back fully.
    Best regards.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    12-23-2014 12:52 AM
  7. Geodude074's Avatar
    Even though I could consider myself tech savvy and I've been using smart phones for years, when I first tried out a WP8 device, IT WAS CONFUSING AND WEIRD. Right from the lock screen, it's confusing.

    "How do I unlock this screen? Do I swipe left? Nope. Do I swipe right? Nope. Do I swipe up? Ah, there we go."

    "How do I move these tiles around? Do I touch and drag? Nope. Do I touch and hold? Nope, that launches the app. Wait... I have to touch and hold for an X amount of seconds, and then I can resize and remove them? Oh, okay."

    "Why is it so difficult to find my app? Trying to find a single app from a LONG LIST of apps is much more difficult than trying to find an app inside of a grid with different pages."

    The fact is, WP8 requires a learning curve, something that most people just don't want to do.
    prasath1234 and walterg1 like this.
    12-27-2014 03:57 AM
  8. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    From my perspective....

    The reason is a death by many cuts...

    The lack of customization, not just on it's looks.

    Forced to use Internet Explorer or it's kernel for browser

    Forced to use Xbox or it's kernel. for music and video

    No multi window

    No Wacom pen support.

    Unable to have the dial pad show first.


    Now the multi window and spen is no big deal and I can live without but everything else I have to have.

    Would this make this more Android like, yes I suppose it would to many, but those are the features I truly appreciate about Android and won't live without, and most of my friends and family feel the same.

    The last is the spec gap between the platforms... Wither needed or not even non technical people have a good idea these days about the latest versions out and most want the latest versions of hardware since they keep them a year or longer.

    WP has a lot going for it but to really get non WP people to switch then they need to make some changes to it.
    prasath1234 and negative1ne like this.
    12-27-2014 04:49 PM
  9. rhapdog's Avatar
    Reasons you listed there aren't really valid for the vast majority of people that buy smart phones.

    Customization of looks is exactly what 99.9% of people look for. They don't care about customizing software or customizing the way the OS works as much. They just want it to work without having to tinker with it. This is one of the biggest complaints I hear about Android, and that it is just too high maintenance, and why many people prefer an iPhone over Android, because iPhone works without hacks.

    And, believe it or not, people don't care if their browser uses an IE kernel. The IE kernel actually makes it more secure and prevents people from getting hacked on their Windows Phone, unlike Android, which gets hacked.

    Very few people, except Microsoft haters, care whether or not they have to use Xbox music and video kernel. They just want the music to play and the videos to play... and mine do, very well.

    I showed my Windows Phone around this weekend, and people were like, "There's a Windows Phone?" You'd be surprised how many people don't even realize it even exists. When people walk into a store to buy a phone, they want to buy something they know. Many just don't know the Windows Phone, and switching from a different platform can be painful until you learn how it works.

    If Windows Phone is your first smart phone, it is quite easy to learn without the learning curve. Switching from WP to Android or iPhone would be the big learning curve. What do you expect? They are different. If they weren't, there would be no reason to choose one over the other.

    No, making it more like Android isn't the answer. It would kill it off, because there would be no need for it then.
    12-27-2014 06:05 PM
  10. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    My reasons are very valid

    Non techie people may not know about the kernel, just as many techie people here do and these are the ones I am addressing and for the record IE on it's own is no more secure than all the rest of the browsers available it is it's interactions with the os that makes it so, and as such other browsers with a different kernel could be just as secure if Microsoft would allow them to be. They've choosen to do with WP what they did with the desktop before and that got changed

    This isn't about hating this is about how to go about getting more people who are on the other platforms to be on WP.

    IE and Xbox are keeping many people off of the platform, regardless of how well they work for you. People want choice, and until they have it... are reluctant to change

    Being denied the right to customize the phone as one chooses is a primary (not the only reason) more people are not interested in using one,again it's about choice and this entails using different launchers, dialers, lock screens, changing up the transparency of everything so this is part of the os and what needs to change to interest more people. People want to make it their own because 1 look becomes boring and eventually closterfobic. This may not seem valid, but it really is.

    If many here looked at this from others viewpoints especially those on other platforms that are more viable than this one perhaps then they would begin to see this.

    How hard would it be to have a phone dialer come up without having to hit another button first?

    How hard would it be to have something like Firefox or Habit Browser just to name 2 instead of IE? How hard for MX player for video?

    How hard would it be to allow something like a different layout of the app drawer instead of just a vertical scrolling jumbled mess?

    As I said my reasons are valid especially for myself, my wife, my children and my friends and while many don't change everything on their phones as much as I do, they do want the opportunity to do so and as such use other platforms that gives them the means to do so. These choices are familiar to them and not having the opportunity is what is foreign..

    I see everyone's complaint about the lack of apps, but that is only a small part of the issue as I have said before...because the whole thing has to be acceptable to them.

    You may not agree with this, that's your right, but don't tell me my reasons are not valid.. I know better than that. .
    Reasons you listed there aren't really valid for the vast majority of people that buy smart phones.

    Customization of looks is exactly what 99.9% of people look for. They don't care about customizing software or customizing the way the OS works as much. They just want it to work without having to tinker with it. This is one of the biggest complaints I hear about Android, and that it is just too high maintenance, and why many people prefer an iPhone over Android, because iPhone works without hacks.

    And, believe it or not, people don't care if their browser uses an IE kernel. The IE kernel actually makes it more secure and prevents people from getting hacked on their Windows Phone, unlike Android, which gets hacked.

    Very few people, except Microsoft haters, care whether or not they have to use Xbox music and video kernel. They just want the music to play and the videos to play... and mine do, very well.

    I showed my Windows Phone around this weekend, and people were like, "There's a Windows Phone?" You'd be surprised how many people don't even realize it even exists. When people walk into a store to buy a phone, they want to buy something they know. Many just don't know the Windows Phone, and switching from a different platform can be painful until you learn how it works.

    If Windows Phone is your first smart phone, it is quite easy to learn without the learning curve. Switching from WP to Android or iPhone would be the big learning curve. What do you expect? They are different. If they weren't, there would be no reason to choose one over the other.

    No, making it more like Android isn't the answer. It would kill it off, because there would be no need for it then.
    12-28-2014 02:02 PM
  11. Geodude074's Avatar
    No, making it more like Android isn't the answer. It would kill it off, because there would be no need for it then.
    I think you just perfectly explained why people aren't using WP8. Because WP8 is just like iOS, except without the apps.

    The world needs Android and iOS, because they are two sides of a coin. Android allows customization, file management, and a multitude of other things. iOs allows a unified OS experience and a safe but locked-down ecosystem.

    So where does WP8 fit into this? WP8 attempts to be like iOS, catering to the masses of average users who buy a smart phone for all the non smartphone reasons, except the problem is, iOS preceded it and has a much better app ecosystem. So why would anyone switch over to WP8 if they're already on iOS?
    a5cent likes this.
    12-28-2014 03:43 PM
  12. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    I think you just perfectly explained why people aren't using WP8. Because WP8 is just like iOS, except without the apps.

    The world needs Android and iOS, because they are two sides of a coin. Android allows customization, file management, and a multitude of other things. iOs allows a unified OS experience and a safe but locked-down ecosystem.

    So where does WP8 fit into this? WP8 attempts to be like iOS, catering to the masses of average users who buy a smart phone for all the non smartphone reasons, except the problem is, iOS preceded it and has a much better app ecosystem. So why would anyone switch over to WP8 if they're already on iOS?
    Absolutely and is exactly why Microsoft has to stop targeting Apple and concentrate on wooing those who are on Android. They won't accomplish this by remaining locked down like IOS. They need to allow what those who are on Android some of the same basic functions that is taken for granted,and encorporate them into the os(familiarity) . They also have to go after the high-end market with top of the line specs on a real flagship phone even if the os doesn't need it to work. Specs matter to many Android users.... It's a mindset that isn't going to change. People believe it is just the app gap keeping it from really taking off.... It's not and until Microsoft has a understanding of this WP will not offer enough to make folks take it serious enough to change with the numbers they are after.

    The iPhone doesn't have to do much changing to be a big seller....WP needs a new direction and I am hoping that the next release will supply it.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    12-28-2014 04:18 PM
  13. humanhowever's Avatar
    I have a few work colleagues who once owned a WP7 device. The inability to do anything on that device they said, was so bad they moved away from WP. Simple things, like drag and drop to move stuff onto the phone.

    I have managed to convince many people to use WP as their main phone (at the expense of having a 520 which I "lend out" for them to use for a week or so), but once again, the same old things come up. Apps. Apps. Apps. There are those who would have us believe the app gap doesn't exist, and maybe not to them, but to others it does. And it hurts.
    12-28-2014 05:34 PM
  14. MaxyBley's Avatar
    I agree with Jazmac. Microsoft should make a deal with the carriers or something to teach their Rep people.
    Last edited by MaxyBley; 12-29-2014 at 01:37 AM.
    12-28-2014 06:07 PM
  15. xandros9's Avatar
    I agree with Jazmac. Microsoft should make a deal with the carpets or something to teach their rep people.
    well, worst case scenario, they could just break out the vacuum and clean them up
    MaxyBley and tgp like this.
    12-28-2014 06:52 PM
  16. MaxyBley's Avatar
    well, worst case scenario, they could just break out the vacuum and clean them up
    Haha just fixed it but gotta love the swype+autocorret on WP.
    12-29-2014 01:36 AM
  17. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Maybe its just me but I'd have killed off all the 512MB devices. Make cuts in other areas to be cheap but make the new floor as 1GB RAM. Why? Makes it easier for devs to not have to code for 512MB.

    Posting 1+1 Style!
    prasath1234 and a5cent like this.
    12-29-2014 08:20 AM
  18. jailman's Avatar
    It's all marketing you don't have to make a an outstanding product to get people to use it u just got to hype it
    12-29-2014 08:21 AM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    Maybe its just me but I'd have killed off all the 512MB devices. Make cuts in other areas to be cheap but make the new floor as 1GB RAM. Why? Makes it easier for devs to not have to code for 512MB.
    Yeah but those pennies saved add up when you're working with millions of parts. I'm sure they calculated cost vs. return, and decided that keeping the 512MB devices around was worth it.
    12-29-2014 08:25 AM
  20. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Yeah but those pennies saved add up when you're working with millions of parts. I'm sure they calculated cost vs. return, and decided that keeping the 512MB devices around was worth it.
    I get you, but you can argue that the Lumia brand, especially in some markets is still overpriced and not hitting the target audience. Even the mighty Samsung who has a phone in every price segment imaginable is going to kill off some lines.
    12-29-2014 08:34 AM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    There's an old saying that you never have a second chance to make a first impression. Most of the smartphone-buying public knows iPhone and Android. That's a given since those two own roughly 90% of the market. On either of those, you can put a favorite picture of your kids, your spouse or whatever and remove all but a few docked icons and leave a clean home screen. You can't do that with WP, you'll end up with a mostly black screen and the few icons you have are forced to the top of the screen. People are creatures of habit and they won't try something new if it isn't vaguely familiar. Apps look and feel similar regardless of platform so there's nothing really mind-blowing there. On Android you can have apps behave differently just depending on the OEM skin, which is why so many go with the "vanilla" Nexus devices, among other reasons.

    Forget the app gap, forget flagships and forget specs. If Microsoft doesn't give WP devices "curb appeal", they'll always be in this rut. The One M8 is a perfect example. It's identical to its Android cousin and yet it isn't making a dent in WP sales. I may be wrong, it's happened many times before, but I'll be willing to wager that W10 addresses the visuals when the final version is released.
    MSFTisMIA, a5cent and MikeX74 like this.
    12-29-2014 11:09 AM
  22. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    What Microsoft really lacks right now is THE device. the perfect mid range one.
    .
    Speak of perfect mid range WP, I believe Microsoft should abandon their mid range WP philosophy in 2015, and implement what One+one/Xiaomi/Meizu is doing for the flagship/mid range phones. Meaning, beefing up the specs(2 GB of Ram, 1080p, solid cam, etc) and selling it around the 200-350 price point.
    MSFTisMIA likes this.
    12-29-2014 11:48 AM
  23. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Speak of perfect mid range WP, I believe Microsoft should abandon their mid range WP philosophy in 2015, and implement what One+one/Xiaomi/Meizu is doing for the flagship/mid range phones. Meaning, beefing up the specs(2 GB of Ram, 1080p, solid cam, etc) and selling it around the 200-350 price point.
    The 830 is the perfect example. I like the speed on the phone, especially for an S400 chip. Design is nice enough and the camera is more than adequate. Yet in some markets it is selling in the same price range as the OnePlusOne and Z3 Compact. What?

    Man, they should have dropped the price on this bad boy by $75 and sell it as is - that would have made a tremendous difference. Cut some of the other lines out and keep the offerings small but competitive pricing wise.
    12-29-2014 02:53 PM
  24. EasilyTheBest's Avatar
    But... neither of you have any data to back that up. For what it's worth, I just did a few web searches and everything I've seen shows that Windows Phone market share in the UK actually declined in Q3 2104 and that because of the 6/6+, iPhone market share increased. So, you know, there's that.
    The Nokia Lumia 520 has been the biggest selling pre paid phone in the UK for the last 12 months.
    12-29-2014 03:25 PM
  25. docfreed's Avatar
    Smack on the money - it's neither the apps nor the phones - MS (and like RIM before this) has never figured out what attracts customers and neither will be much of a success going forward. And the real customer is not only the buying consumer but the carriers - neither company can be successful if they don't woo the carriers who have an absolute stranglehold on the US phone business. Blackberry is dying the death of a thousand cuts and MS will throw money at a dying business until the board of directors tells Nadella to kill WP. Ultimately we lose and the cellphone business will be a duopoly of Android and IOS and two carriers AT&T and Verizon

    There's an old saying that you never have a second chance to make a first impression. Most of the smartphone-buying public knows iPhone and Android. That's a given since those two own roughly 90% of the market. On either of those, you can put a favorite picture of your kids, your spouse or whatever and remove all but a few docked icons and leave a clean home screen. You can't do that with WP, you'll end up with a mostly black screen and the few icons you have are forced to the top of the screen. People are creatures of habit and they won't try something new if it isn't vaguely familiar. Apps look and feel similar regardless of platform so there's nothing really mind-blowing there. On Android you can have apps behave differently just depending on the OEM skin, which is why so many go with the "vanilla" Nexus devices, among other reasons.

    Forget the app gap, forget flagships and forget specs. If Microsoft doesn't give WP devices "curb appeal", they'll always be in this rut. The One M8 is a perfect example. It's identical to its Android cousin and yet it isn't making a dent in WP sales. I may be wrong, it's happened many times before, but I'll be willing to wager that W10 addresses the visuals when the final version is released.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    12-29-2014 04:41 PM
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