03-20-2015 10:56 AM
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  1. jonnaver's Avatar
    Absolutely and is exactly why Microsoft has to stop targeting Apple and concentrate on wooing those who are on Android. They won't accomplish this by remaining locked down like IOS. They need to allow what those who are on Android some of the same basic functions that is taken for granted,and encorporate them into the os(familiarity)
    I agree but it'll never happen though. That's one area where MS and Apple have a lot in common, they're firm believers in locking things down.
    12-29-2014 06:50 PM
  2. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I agree but it'll never happen though. That's one area where MS and Apple have a lot in common, they're firm believers in locking things down.
    That's the issue here. I was hopeful they would open up even a few more of the APIs for developers but that's not the case. With all the great photo apps in the app store, for devices with a physical camera button I still cannot for example set proshot to be my camera default. And with all the great weather apps in the marketplace, I'm stuck with the MSN weather app as the only thing allowed to run on glance for phones that support it.

    There are enough little changes like this that doesn't kill the overall user experience but makes phones more unquestionably unique for users.
    12-29-2014 09:47 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    That's the issue here. I was hopeful they would open up even a few more of the APIs for developers but that's not the case. With all the great photo apps in the app store, for devices with a physical camera button I still cannot for example set proshot to be my camera default. And with all the great weather apps in the marketplace, I'm stuck with the MSN weather app as the only thing allowed to run on glance for phones that support it.

    There are enough little changes like this that doesn't kill the overall user experience but makes phones more unquestionably unique for users.
    Windows Mobile had these choices. Problem is, too many people complained about WM's endless menus and sub-menus. It's a catch-22 for MS, damned if you do and double-damned if you don't.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-29-2014 09:57 PM
  4. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Windows Mobile had these choices. Problem is, too many people complained about WM's endless menus and sub-menus. It's a catch-22 for MS, damned if you do and double-damned if you don't.
    No sub menu necessary. To avoid duplication you can handle it one of two ways:

    1) list it both in the settings of the app and in the corresponding main setting that it applied to - in this example would be the settings of the photo app + the main camera setting.

    Or

    2) the modern solution is have the option in the app's settings be a shortcut to the main setting to enable/disable it. This is already used for ha doing the lock screen for some apps.

    I get the extra work on the back end for MSFT, but they can limit this still to hardware with camera buttons only. Not sure why leverage existing design is such pulling teeth...
    12-29-2014 10:08 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Not sure why leverage existing design is such pulling teeth...
    I'm in the design/build industry and I totally get your frustration. It seems every kid coming out of college with a degree wants to leave his/her mark in the world. Good design is meant to be improved, not discarded for the sake of change. Is there any "master" settings area better than Control Panel on PCs? I realize mobile displays have real estate concerns so each app needs its own settings within the app, but those should be minimal settings for one-time use like camera scenes. Most of us set our devices to our preferences and rarely go back. Why should rarely used settings clutter an app's UI? Am I making any sense?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-30-2014 09:59 AM
  6. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I'm in the design/build industry and I totally get your frustration. It seems every kid coming out of college with a degree wants to leave his/her mark in the world. Good design is meant to be improved, not discarded for the sake of change. Is there any "master" settings area better than Control Panel on PCs? I realize mobile displays have real estate concerns so each app needs its own settings within the app, but those should be minimal settings for one-time use like camera scenes. Most of us set our devices to our preferences and rarely go back. Why should rarely used settings clutter an app's UI? Am I making any sense?
    I get you.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-30-2014 11:30 PM
  7. namurell's Avatar
    It seems like most of the people are underestimating just how complex of a problem this is. It is not just one magic lever that needs to be found and tweaked
    (price, apps, etc.). I think Microsoft knows this and is working on many things to solve it, and as a fan, I hope they do. This is an industry that they sat idly by and watched their competitors take over. It is an industry that will take years of ground work and billions of dollars to meaningfully muscle into. I do think that there are a few very key areas of focus for Microsoft at this point.
    1. Mindshare - this has been touched on alot in this thread and it cannot be underestimated. People simply do not know about windows phone. They do not understand the interface. The general public, and if you are on this website that is not you, does not like change or complicated things. They don't understand a live tile and that they simply need to look at the weather app icon to see the temperature rather than open the app. They are conditioned after decades of computing interfaces to expect a desktop with icons. That's all that ios and androids are, glorified versions of the same concept that was used in windows 3.1. Windows 8 tried to make a leap to the future, and botched it. Don't get me wrong, I think w8 is an amazing os and I use it every day. The vast majority of legacy windows users dont have touch enabled machines. W8 was not built for a mouse, the public revolted and hated it. This same interface is present in wp8 and people look at it the same way and wont give it a chance. The other complaint I get is that it is not intuitive. This is a relative term. Apple was "intuitive" because it built upon the desktop and icon system of old. Use a finger instead of a mouse. They rest of the system they taught people via commercials. Most people have now forgotten that they had to learn ios and just recite that it was intuitive. Microsoft must educate the masses.
    2. Hardware - we must have hardware available to all. This means flagship devices. And in todays market, that means a new flagship at least once a year. This is what the public expects and demands. Something new to be excited about. Microsoft must also invest in and build hardware where their competitors do. This means watches, tablets, etc. Everywhere there is a mobile device Microsoft must be present and well represented (Mindshare).
    3. Software - to my point above, everywhere there is mobile technology, Microsoft must be present. This means cross platform apps and experiences. Xbox in the living room, Lumia in your pocket, on your wrist, in your car, office, everywhere. They are already falling behind in many of these areas like they already did in phones. It is cheaper to get out in front. The app gap is a catch 22. We cannot get the big new apps without the user base and we can't get the user base without the apps. This can be overcome, mainly through education of the existing o's and its benefits. Most ios users are windows desktop users. Show them the benefits of having a windows desktop and phone.

    Microsoft is working on alot of these items already and windows 10, from what ive heard, will go a long way to this. However, I do agree that Microsoft seems to have pushed pause on their mobile efforts. Part due to the Nokia acquisition, CEO transition. But they cannot afford to be forgotten in an industry that is measured in months if not days. Microsoft problems are 80% marketing 10% hardware and 10% software. They MUST open up the wallet and advertise advertise advertise. And I'm not talking useless commercials with people dancing. They must educate people like apple has done.
    They real question is if Microsoft will cough up the money or if they will cave to the investors to axe a non-profitable (in the short term) division of the company.
    tgp, dgr_874, rhapdog and 2 others like this.
    01-02-2015 11:23 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    Microsoft is working on alot of these items already and windows 10, from what ive heard, will go a long way to this. However, I do agree that Microsoft seems to have pushed pause on their mobile efforts. Part due to the Nokia acquisition, CEO transition. But they cannot afford to be forgotten in an industry that is measured in months if not days. Microsoft problems are 80% marketing 10% hardware and 10% software. They MUST open up the wallet and advertise advertise advertise. And I'm not talking useless commercials with people dancing. They must educate people like apple has done.
    I agree with you for the most part. I still have a hangup with advertising being the main issue. I know that my view isn't popular here, but I feel strongly that Windows Phone is not ready to be heavily marketed. It still has some growing up to do. It is not yet ready to run with the big boys, although it is getting there.

    If users were to switch to WP en masse now, I'm afraid that there would be a massive outcry of disappointment that would be very difficult for Microsoft to overcome. If the marketing were at the level of Apple's, it would certainly cause users to at least consider WP. However, they would expect the same level of user experience. Due to an OS that is still maturing and the so-called "app gap," lots of users who are used to iOS and Android would be underwhelmed.

    I think that Microsoft is better off to keep OS development going without high level marketing. Get it up to par with iOS and Android, and then bring the marketing blitz when WP is ready to compete.
    01-02-2015 11:48 AM
  9. Alfa Kapa's Avatar
    In Greece, the last year or so, I see many people in the streets with Lumias (especially 630 and 520)
    Before I got the Lumia 630, I was using android devices since day 1.

    One and something years ago, one buddy of mine, bought a white Lumia 625 and I still remember how awesome was the build quality and the in-hand feel.

    Anyway, the first time I got it in my hands, I wanted to change a song playing in the music application and I was totally lost!
    The UI of the the music application (HUB?) was completely unfamiliar to me and I felt extremely dumb not able to do this simple action..
    (It maybe was WP7 because it wasn't like the current music application) It didn't even have the next/previous buttons.
    So I was left completely unimpressed from this little thing and I stud with the strong opinion that WP s*cks.

    As silly as it sounds this simple things are what matter most to people when for example they operate our phones and experience WP for the first time and there are good chances that they will feel completely lost and disliking it.

    The other day my friend (which is using an Android phone) wanted to take a picture because his phone didn't have battery left,
    And past the lockscreen, he had no idea were the camera was and looked at the screen as it was Chinese (no offend)

    Here is my start screen :



    Don't get me wrong, it is great to have your start screen reflect you and your needs, but for someone not familiar to your start screen (even WP user) may feel confusing.


    Lets say a friend gave you his phone, to make that important call, and your only phones ever were futurephones..:

    If you have never touched or seen an iPhone,
    you unlock it as shown in the screen, press the icon which shows a phone and press the dialer button..

    If you have never touched or seen an Android Phone,
    unlock it as you figure out via the screen hints (similar to iPhone but less user friendly in many cases),
    search for the phone button and press it (almost certain that it is located in the bottom) and press the dialer button..

    If you have never touched or seen a Windows Phone,
    Scratch your head because there are no visual clues showing how to unlock it, yep, you find it! you must swipe to the top!
    Then look at the screen, any square could be the dialer, hmmm, after consuming more brain power than the other 2 OSes you finally found it!
    F*ck, press it and stare at it, hmmm, yess! In the bottom bar there are 4 cycles showing actions, the second should be a dialer! I GOT IT!

    MY POINT IS :
    The other OS welcome users by using COLORS and shades giving CLUES!
    WP is (for the most part) colorless as if you have a monochrome display..

    IN MY OPINION

    The next version (Windows 10) must have colors (soft, pleasant to the eye).
    Developers of WP 10 should play (subconsciously) with the minds of users, here is a way to do that
    All the native apps should have their own color scheme to create a friendly environment and uniformity

    For example :

    Dialer app: Green
    in the app green-white-black and such..

    Maps apps: Blue
    in the app blue-white-black and such.. (why they made the tiles transparent and the splash screen black?)

    Camera apps: Purple
    in the app purple-white-black and such..

    and so on...

    Google and Apple got it right in the last updates, it is only natural for WP to do the same.
    I don't think with the fanboy mindset and complaining about copying blah blah blah..
    Friendly and pleasing to the eye colors are not a trend, colors show emotions and play a major role
    to the subconscious of our minds/ how much we like something.
    It is natural for one to get bored of windows phones (in it's current state) no matter how smooth and great the OS is..

    Also all the games MUST go into a special app/folder, it is ridiculous for a Windows product (best known to entrepreneurs) to have games in it's app list, currently I have about the same quantity of game located all over my app list (and probably I'm not the only here)

    NOTES:

    This is my opinion. This is what I think would make a huge impact on the windows phone growth and surely will attract more customers and produce less complains.
    Apple always knew that, that's why most of the people have a good image of this company.
    Microsoft always was giving that feeling to consumers of NOTHING SPECIAL, on the other hand, Apple always knew how the brain works and how you make someone to like your products. It is an art..
    Now, Microsoft has this huge opportunity to give it's products (and mainly WP) the soul that is needed, otherwise it won't succeed.

    Sorry for the huge post everybody!
    01-02-2015 02:24 PM
  10. Mike Majeski's Avatar
    I've used blackberry, android, iOS and Windows phone. I agree that the different UI is the biggest thing that makes people hesitant, but at the same time it is also the best part of Windows Phone. My first experience with WP was when my GF got a Lumia (don't remember the model) to try out back in the Windows Phone 7 days. I found it pretty confusing at first, but everything seemed 100% intuitive after a few days. It's just getting over that initial shock. I had the same experience with Windows 8. I got completely lost the first time I tried it out. Now it seems extremely simple.

    I think we've all had "Apple is so simple and intuitive" shoved down our throats that many start to believe it. You really start understanding how confusing iOS is when you try to teach someone how to use an iPhone for the first time. My mom just got the 6 for Christmas and you forget how hard it is to find some of the settings..."why is this under general, oh wait I think that's under Accessibility".

    I know everyone loves the new iPhone, but I have one and it sucks! Sure the screen looks amazing and the hardware is beautiful, but Siri is a joke (seriously, asked her to "navigate to Public Square, Medina" and she said "I'm sorry, I cannot find Public Square, [women's body part that sounds like Medina]". The speakers are terrible, and the ear piece volume is super faint.

    I know the hardcore WP users don't like how Microsoft is embracing the low-end market. But, that's what will get people to try it out. I have the iPhone 6+ right now, but I like the Lumia 635 more. I bought it for the same price I pay per month for the iPhone on T-Mobile. The Lumia has been so good I am ditching the iPhone in July and my GF may even switch as well.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    01-02-2015 02:37 PM
  11. Mike Majeski's Avatar
    Alpha Kapa, Great post! Do you have a link to that background - that is SWEET!
    01-02-2015 02:39 PM
  12. afgzee's Avatar
    loads of things annoy me about Windows Phone, but I cant stop using them and buying them.

    For example being limited to 50MB download limit over the mobile network, this really takes the micky when you have a truly unlimited mobile data connection.

    Apps (including Microsoft's own) like Skype, Yammer, Office and others performing really badly, why should other companies put in an effort of they are not going to themselves.

    Other companies putting in a half arsed effort like IMDB, eBay, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc... or abounding their apps like IMDB and SoundHound

    Companies refusing to make apps for WP like Snapchat and SoundCloud for some odd reason.

    Microsoft needs to wake up and get its act together to show they are really in it and believe in their own OS before others follow. Its like wildebeest or zebra once the main one crosses the river, all the others follow.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    01-04-2015 10:48 AM
  13. colinkiama's Avatar
    loads of things annoy me about Windows Phone, but I cant stop using them and buying them.

    For example being limited to 50MB download limit over the mobile network, this really takes the micky when you have a truly unlimited mobile data connection.

    Apps (including Microsoft's own) like Skype, Yammer, Office and others performing really badly, why should other companies put in an effort of they are not going to themselves.

    Other companies putting in a half arsed effort like IMDB, eBay, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc... or abounding their apps like IMDB and SoundHound

    Companies refusing to make apps for WP like Snapchat and SoundCloud for some odd reason.

    Microsoft needs to wake up and get its act together to show they are really in it and believe in their own OS before others follow. Its like wildebeest or zebra once the main one crosses the river, all the others follow.
    Ummm i thought they increased the limit to 100mb which is the same as iOS and android.
    01-04-2015 11:06 AM
  14. Corepc's Avatar
    Ummm i thought they increased the limit to 100mb which is the same as iOS and android.
    They did for most regions, some regions and podcasts still have cellular data restrictions
    01-04-2015 11:10 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    Ummm i thought they increased the limit to 100mb which is the same as iOS and android.
    I doubt know about iOS, but Android doesn't have a limit. A warning pops up, but you can confirm that you're aware of the data consumption and carry on if you wish.
    01-04-2015 11:21 AM
  16. alissa914's Avatar
    For me, it was the apps basically. I don't play a lot of apps or games, but with Android, I can have a LastPass app that can save my passwords and then use another app where it can use Last-Pass as an input method.

    Restrictions:
    They took too long to let people use the SD card for anything, really. Too many podcast apps that I had were limited to internal storage which was often too small and since you couldn't install apps to SD cards then, I was stuck using the internal apps which were OK, but hardly amazing.

    Casting:
    Why doesn't PlayTo show like ChromeCast's casting show up on Android or AppleTV show up on the iPhone?

    Devices:
    If I want a new smartwatch, i can't really use it since the OS doesn't seem to let you (or if it does, it requires that the app be foreground)

    Apps:
    I don't use too many but if I get something new (like a Tivo Roamio), I have to resort to an indie developer to do what other platforms have made by the manufacturer of that device (Tivo)

    Syncing:
    How can I easily get music on the device without it crashing or taking too long like the Windows Sync program seems to do? Sure, I can use MediaMonkey now with MTP in version 8.0 of Windows Phone, but Zune made that whole process so much easier.

    Music:
    This is one thing that I despise. Android has Google Music which does a great job of having all of your songs in the cloud and making it available for offline listening. You can adjust playlists, songs, etc. online and have it like how iTunes Match works. Plus, they let you rate the songs in both and that synchronizes to the cloud and your home browser or iTunes. I've spent so much time cleaning up my XBOX Music library that I just gave up.

    I still enjoy Last.FM on Android over Windows Phone. Sure, WP has a great scrobbler (and really only one that I would even recommend) but it doesn't work on streaming due to limitations in the OS.



    It seems like for all of the good pieces of Windows Phone that you feel like you're missing out on things just because you want to use something you really enjoy. And that's why I stopped using it.

    Still, if I had a wishlist, I'd like to offset the Windows Phone app problem by running Android apps on it (like Blackberry does). Yeah, I know it's not ideal, but it would increase adoption a bit if people aren't missing out on something just because they're using Windows Phone. But if they made WP like Windows RT, then I'd be back in.
    01-04-2015 01:48 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    For me, it was the apps basically. I don't play a lot of apps or games, but with Android, I can have a LastPass app that can save my passwords and then use another app where it can use Last-Pass as an input method.
    Do you trust an Android app to store your passwords? Let me re-phrase. Do you trust an Android app to keep your passwords away from the prying eyes of others?
    01-04-2015 03:09 PM
  18. colinkiama's Avatar
    what microsoft need to do is go through every aspect of their OS and then compare them with ios and android and ask themselves, how can we make our OS better
    Last edited by colinkiama; 01-04-2015 at 05:49 PM.
    humanhowever likes this.
    01-04-2015 03:24 PM
  19. colinkiama's Avatar
    what microsoft need to do is go through every aspect of their OS and then compare them with ios and android and ask themselves, how can we make our OS betterthan theirs
    especially the system apps, xbox music, video, games (facepalm)
    01-04-2015 03:26 PM
  20. Harrie-S's Avatar
    what microsoft need to do is go through every aspect of their OS and then compare them with ios and android and ask themselves, how can we make our OS betterthan theirs
    But what is the definition of better.?
    More open because of 3 part apps or more close because it is save?
    01-04-2015 03:34 PM
  21. portalfocus's Avatar
    When I ask people why they don't consider WP, it's the usual "it looks confusing" response. However, once I sit there with them and show all of its pros to them, it's pretty easy to convince them to switch.
    Same as I did we my dad. He LOVES his L1320
    01-04-2015 03:44 PM
  22. jonnaver's Avatar
    Do you trust an Android app to store your passwords? Let me re-phrase. Do you trust an Android app to keep your passwords away from the prying eyes of others?
    Um yeah? I use the one from Keepass which has yet to be hacked on any OS. Been using it for years. Never an issue, and I even store my encrypted database in the cloud.
    01-04-2015 05:13 PM
  23. colinkiama's Avatar
    But what is the definition of better.?
    More open because of 3 part apps or more close because it is save?
    WP is in the middle to be honest. it's not too open and its not too closed.
    And I mean more intuitive, more easy to use, more feature packed etc. I also mean that they need to bring their own apps up to the standard of the other two
    01-04-2015 05:51 PM
  24. afgzee's Avatar
    Ummm i thought they increased the limit to 100mb which is the same as iOS and android.
    I have a HTC One M8 also and I can download a 1GB file over mobile network is I choice. 100MB still isn't good enough. We should be able to decide how we use our data, not Microsoft.
    01-04-2015 06:13 PM
  25. SteveNoza's Avatar
    For me, it was the apps basically. I don't play a lot of apps or games, but with Android, I can have a LastPass app that can save my passwords and then use another app where it can use Last-Pass as an input method.
    LastPass IS available on Windows Phone.
    01-04-2015 09:42 PM
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