Are we overlooking the real problem why people aren't using WP? Serious discussion please

[iamtim]

I'm telling you, no amount of evangelism, no amount of advertising, no amount of pushing from MS is going to get the entrenched iOS and Android users to jump ship without a compelling reason to do so. Even if every iOS and Android app were available on WP right now, and Microsoft had a Lumia ad running every commercial break and in every magazine and on every website and on the side of every bus, why should those entrenched users leave their platform and have to re-purchase all their apps and purchasable content?

For instance, I have purchased THOUSANDS of songs from iTunes. I'm smart enough to remove the DRM from the older tracks and convert iTunes native format into MP3 so I can play it on other devices. But that over 90% who use iOS and Android, do you think they're going go through that just so that they can use a Windows Phone?

No, that's not going to happen. Sure, you might get the cream-of-the-crop users - the people who post on forums like this - but do you think that's enough to jump WP's 3% US market share to a double-digit figure? Nah. Not a chance. There's just no reason for it.

Windows Phone needs a reason. Perhaps Windows 10 will be it, perhaps MS will finally get their vision of "one OS many devices" right, and everyone who runs Windows on their desktop will be clamoring for a Windows Phone. But until that happens - if it happens - there's just no reason for the average iOS or Android user to use WP.

 

[nicfromwales]

The compelling reason to switch, at least for those who don't know much about smartphones, is the price. It's why Microsoft is chasing the lower end of the market. Windows Phone can't compete with iOS, but a cheap Lumia can compete with the iPhone and more expensive Android handsets when it comes to the fight for people's pockets. Advertising merely strengthens familiarity, making it less scary to jump in and try it. No, not everyone is going to switch. But likewise not everyone is faithful to a single platform forever. A lot don't have a clue which OS they're even using.

 

[Guytronic]

The compelling reason to switch, at least for those who don't know much about smartphones, is the price. It's why Microsoft is chasing the lower end of the market. Windows Phone can't compete with iOS, but a cheap Lumia can compete with the iPhone and more expensive Android handsets when it comes to the fight for people's pockets. Advertising merely strengthens familiarity, making it less scary to jump in and try it. No, not everyone is going to switch. But likewise not everyone is faithful to a single platform forever. A lot don't have a clue which OS they're even using.

Exactly!
I wholeheartedly agree with everything said here.
Echoed this a number of times in these forums.

I started off with a low cost device myself.

 

[iamtim]

The compelling reason to switch, at least for those who don't know much about smartphones, is the price.

...no. Not so much in the US, at least, which is from where I was quoting my numbers. On AT&T right now, I can get a Lumia 830 for $15/month on AT&T Next. An iPhone 6 is only $21.67/month on that same plan. The Lumia 1520 is $19.50/month, while the iPhone 6+ is $25.00/month. I can tell you that even for those who don't know smartphones, that's a pittance to stay on the platform they know and are comfortable with.

I'm talking out of experience, too. Both my dad and brother are on my plan and are eligible for upgrade. They're both rocking the 8gb iPhone 4. Neither of them want to even consider anything other than a new iPhone - even with the few dollars a month savings (which they could use: my dad is retired and my brother is a starving artist) because they'd have to re-buy all their apps and convert music.

And while my brother is an Apple user (because of his artwork), my dad doesn't care less about technology brands. He got an iPhone because I told him to get an iPhone, but he won't get something different now, even if I tell him it would be better. Go figure.

For new users you might have a point, users who aren't already entrenched in another platform.

 

[James8561]

For instance, I have purchased THOUSANDS of songs from iTunes. I'm smart enough to remove the DRM from the older tracks and convert iTunes native format into MP3 so I can play it on other devices. But that over 90% who use iOS and Android, do you think they're going go through that just so that they can use a Windows Phone?

last i checked WP can play m4a files just fine.

 

[D M C]

Well
My sis find wp confusing but my friends know it very well and easily handles wp.(some of them don't like wp UI because it doesn't suits their taste)

Remaining because of apps/games and some feature .
By referring apps /games I am not referring to 300k vs 1M but the apps my friends uses aren't available on WP and may be never will(because of nature of apps)

 

[uberlaff]

The first Apple iPhone commercials were used to do one thing in the beginning familiarize and train people on the iPhone. Just by watching there favorite TV show everyone learned how to use the iPhone.

MS never takes the time to do this. They compare Cortana to Siri or talk about the iPhone being bigger but don't explain why "Windows Phone is awesome and here is how it makes your life better" without involving the iPhone.

Comparisons to other platforms will only get you so far. Samsung does comparisons, but not always. Everyone will remember the "tap to send" videos commercial because you learned something.

What I'm getting at is, live tikes being unfamiliar to someone is only Microsoft's fault. They never took the time to explain why they make your life better. All of us here get it because we use it but MS is not flooding Tv teaching the world about live tiles. This is their fault and something that they can correct.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

Before you start bashing me I will say one thing: I'm a HUGE fan of live tiles and they are one of the main reasons I'm using a WP device.

BUT

Recently I started questioning people on why they don't like WP and I was really surprised by their answers. These are not tech savy people, just regular dumb phone/ smartphone users.
Most common response was:
"It looks confusing and weird, and I'm not sure that I like how it looks" (By that they were reffering to the homescreen first, and then later the general interface) . I'm guessing this has something to do with the way they used their phones before (icon oriented interface) and some general old habits. I guess the most important thing here is that none of them reffered to the interface as being cool or amazing. I'm perfectly aware that their confusion would go away once they would start using it - but the problem is when your buying a new phone you don't feel like trying something new. Most people just go with whatever their friends are using since it feels familiar and is considered popular.

I personally feel that Microsoft needs to do following things
1. Make Modern UI feel familiar, not by changing the UI but by using it in their marketing materials more effectively. They need to find a way to "ease" new users to the WP experience. This is maybe one of the most important things.
2. More phones. I cannot stress this enough. Almost everywhere I look I see only 2 or 3 windows phones that are available, and hundreds of androids made by LG, Samsung, HTC etc. Nokia (now Microsoft) phones that cover all ranges are just not enough. When people go to carrier stores (or other stores) they are so flooded with android phones of all price ranges that It's almost impossible to see a WP phone. Here is a list of phones my carrier (Eronet) is selling http://www.hteronet.ba/privatni-korisnici/mobilna-telefonija/mobilni-telefoni/ .
3. A truly impressive flagship. And by that I don't necessarily mean the latest specs or some new crazy tech. It needs to be heavily marketed and deployed fast across the world and most carriers. Maybe even name it something other than Lumia so when people think about it they will immediately be reminded of "that cool phone". If you talk to "regular" people they see the Galaxy flagships as cool, modern and powerful. They don't even know the names of WP flagships. I'm not kidding. Of all the people talked to only one asked me : "Lumia 920..... I guess?
4. More customization. While this will not help to gain new users, it will be crucial to keeping the current ones. When people buy new phones they want change - and if you can't change the appearence all that much you won't feel like it's a truly totally new phone. My friend used to have a LUMIA 710 and when he was about to buy a new phone I suggested him the LUMIA 730. He wouldn't even hear of it. His only comment was that it looks the same as his old 710.

Alson The Lumia numbering scheme is CONFUSING as hell. Maybe not to us who follow tech regulary, but to an everyday Joe it's hell.

Also I haven't said anything about the app gap because we all know the situation.
What do you guys think?

EXactly what my sis said when i showed her the phone, she said that mess of a screen would give her a headache, so I think its a stumbling block for some

 

[iamtim]

last i checked WP can play m4a files just fine.

Not the DRM protected songs, it can't.

And on top of that, even if it can play the unprotected songs, you're asking established, entrenched, "normal" users to abandon whatever app it is with which they're familiar (iTunes or whatever) in favor of another app. So again, I ask, why would a "normal" user do that?

Even in cases where iTunes can be used - like with the Windows Phone app from the Store - you're asking entrenched, "normal" users to now use a second app to do what one app alone used to do for them. There's just... no compelling reason for those users to switch at this point.

And we haven't even touched on movies downloaded with iTunes. Or books and magazines purchased through iBooks or Google Play. I know I lost a couple of books when I got rid of my Nexus 7.

 

[broar94]

EXactly what my sis said when i showed her the phone, she said that mess of a screen would give her a headache, so I think its a stumbling block for some

My cousin said the same thing when I showed her my home screen. I really wonder what's so difficult in using wp. I didn't give a damn.

 

[nicfromwales]

...no. Not so much in the US, at least, which is from where I was quoting my numbers. On AT&T right now, I can get a Lumia 830 for $15/month on AT&T Next. An iPhone 6 is only $21.67/month on that same plan. The Lumia 1520 is $19.50/month, while the iPhone 6+ is $25.00/month. I can tell you that even for those who don't know smartphones, that's a pittance to stay on the platform they know and are comfortable with.

But I'm not talking about the 1520 or even the 830. In Wales and the rest of Great Britain an iPhone 6 16Gb will set you back from around ?39.50 ($61.00) a month, while a Lumia 630 is from only ?10 ($15.00) a month by comparison. That's not a pittance. A lot of iPhone users can afford to remain with the platform, and will buy an iPhone 6 (a 930 or 1520 isn't going to lure many away). But many more are feeling the pinch as wages fall and the cost of living goes up. They're questioning whether the iPhone 6 really is such good value, with Android and Windows phones becoming a more attractive prospect.

It doesn't mean the battle is won, by any means, but Microsoft has a real shot at success over here. And I don't believe those with vast iTunes libraries (ones too big to consider a switch) make up a huge number of users, particularly with the popularity of Spotify here, and yes, even downloading for free. Same goes for app purchases, when most apps these days are free. It just isn't an obstacle.

I don't know what Microsoft needs to do to make the Lumia a success in the US, but it's definitely doing the right thing here.

 

[iamtim]

I'm pretty sure that every time I've mentioned numbers, I've said "in the US". What happens outside of the US doesn't matter to the over 90% choke-hold that Android and iOS has in the US. That said...

But many more are feeling the pinch as wages fall and the cost of living goes up. They're questioning whether the iPhone 6 really is such good value, with Android and Windows phones becoming a more attractive prospect.

Can you show me some proof, or even a trend supporting your claim? That's a nice theory and all, but my company has an office in Wales and in Spain and while every user in those offices I've spoken to about it was able to identify my WP on site, none of them had any interest in actually getting a WP and specifically said their plan is to remain with the iPhone. Most have iPhone 5Ss, a couple have already switched to the 6.

It just isn't an obstacle.

I believe you could not be more wrong. Were you correct, the data I've gathered would be wrong - and it's not - and there would be more people already using WP. Again, at least here in the US.

 

[jonnaver]

I commented in another thread that maybe there's just not enough room in the market for more than two dominant OS's. That's how it played out on desktops for the last few decades

 

[nicfromwales]

I'm pretty sure that every time I've mentioned numbers, I've said "in the US". What happens outside of the US doesn't matter to the over 90% choke-hold that Android and iOS has in the US. That said...



Can you show me some proof, or even a trend supporting your claim? That's a nice theory and all, but my company has an office in Wales and in Spain and while every user in those offices I've spoken to about it was able to identify my WP on site, none of them had any interest in actually getting a WP and specifically said their plan is to remain with the iPhone. Most have iPhone 5Ss, a couple have already switched to the 6.



I believe you could not be more wrong. Were you correct, the data I've gathered would be wrong - and it's not - and there would be more people already using WP. Again, at least here in the US.

And I'm pretty sure I pointed out I was talking about Wales and the rest of Great Britain, and not the US. Being Welsh and not American means I'm not going to presume to know the situation in the US, besides sales figures and anecdotes, and so my comments are based around what's happening here.

What is it you'd like me to prove? That wages in Great Britain are down? That Lumia sales are up? That the iPhone 6 cost is beyond the reach of most hard-up Welsh families this Christmas? That advertising for Windows phones by carriers and stores (as opposed to Microsoft) are all over the TV? That I've seen a huge increase in the amount of Lumias being used in the street, on the bus and the train? I don't have the time, nor will, to give you proof. You'll have to find these things out for yourself. Besides the last one of course - you'd have to actually live here for that, and know what's going on outside of some anecdotes from the guys in the office.

Of course this doesn't mean Lumias have become a runaway success and iPhones are being abandoned up and down the land. A lot of people are looking for a bargain, but they may not find a Lumia. It may be an Android. But I think Microsoft is onto a good thing here.

Like I said, I don't know what Microsoft needs to do to make Lumia a success in the US. But Wales and Great Britain I know. And I'm not wrong.

 

[prasath1234]

Its because it is not google.For masses google is god including India.

 

[agentmikeyd99]

For US its simple. No flagships. Don't waste your breath on year old devices like 1520 or 1020

 

[iamtim]

I don't have the time, nor will, to give you proof.

You said that "[Many more are] questioning whether the iPhone 6 really is such good value, with Android and Windows phones becoming a more attractive prospect." I wanted to see the data which lead you to this conclusion. Surely there must be some poll or questionnaire or something which lead you to it. Talking to your friends? Work associates? Random users on the street?

But alas, you said you don't have the time or will to do that. So I am only left to assume it's solely in your head. Which is fine, I just like to know if I'm discussing made-up conclusions or actual data.

 

[Noel Danso]

You said that "[Many more are] questioning whether the iPhone 6 really is such good value, with Android and Windows phones becoming a more attractive prospect." I wanted to see the data which lead you to this conclusion. Surely there must be some poll or questionnaire or something which lead you to it. Talking to your friends? Work associates? Random users on the street?

But alas, you said you don't have the time or will to do that. So I am only left to assume it's solely in your head. Which is fine, I just like to know if I'm discussing made-up conclusions or actual data.

I'm from London. I agree with nicfromwales There are many more Lumias on the streets than this time last year. They are being advertised a lot more on television and in shop windows too. Many people I know have a low end Lumia to use as a media player even if they use an iPhone or a Galaxy as their main phone.
Lumias are definitely growing in popularity on this side of the pond.

 

[nicfromwales]

You said that "[Many more are] questioning whether the iPhone 6 really is such good value, with Android and Windows phones becoming a more attractive prospect." I wanted to see the data which lead you to this conclusion. Surely there must be some poll or questionnaire or something which lead you to it.

I've given you my *opinion* based on economic data, Lumia sales figures in Great Britain, the increased number of Lumias I see on the street, the extortionate price of the iPhone 6 relative to income in Wales, carrier and store marketing on TV this Christmas, and anecdotal evidence from friends and family. Proof of all of these isn't something I'm going to give you, just I haven't asked you to show me the poll you conducted of iPhone users in the United States on whether or not they'll ever switch platform. This is a forum, not a boardroom. Let it go.

 

[Ordeith]

Its because it is not google.For masses google is god including India.

We don't need to add fuel to Eric Schmidt's god complex now.