01-28-2015 09:15 AM
49 12
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    Android, especially low end devices, get left behind in updates. But they do continue to work. Many of the apps in the Play Store today will work fine even on Froyo, which was released in May 2010, almost 5 years ago.
    And a Windows Phone will be in the same boat. Don't leap to 10 and it will still work. But note where most Android budget phones don't ever get even one OTA and users need to mod to upgrade. Windows phone is very different in that respect.
    True, but I think you're doing like was mentioned somewhere else, glorifying updates for the sake of getting an update. Android is not the platform frantically trying to catch up to the competition. WP needs updates more than Android or iOS do.
    princeegli and D M C like this.
    01-22-2015 02:47 PM
  2. JamesDax's Avatar
    I'll tell you one thing that won't be fragmented. The crying that goes on in this forum.
    RumoredNow, tgp, rhapdog and 3 others like this.
    01-22-2015 03:04 PM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I'll tell you one thing that won't be fragmented. The crying that goes on in this forum.
    Thanks. Very True.


    True, but I think you're doing like was mentioned somewhere else, glorifying updates for the sake of getting an update. Android is not the platform frantically trying to catch up to the competition. WP needs updates more than Android or iOS do.
    As a correlation look at all the crying in Android forums over the updates never coming. (I've been active on those forums, I've read the posts.)

    Sure Android isn't playing catchup with anyone and has not been for a couple of years. Doesn't mean that budget Android users say, "Meh, I don't want an update. I'm just happy to watch on the sidelines as all the newer models get upgraded to new versions." Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
    rhapdog, tgp and xandros9 like this.
    01-22-2015 03:46 PM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    As a correlation look at all the crying in Android forums over the updates never coming. (I've been active on those forums, I've read the posts.)

    Sure Android isn't playing catchup with anyone and has not been for a couple of years. Doesn't mean that budget Android users say, "Meh, I don't want an update. I'm just happy to watch on the sidelines as all the newer models get upgraded to new versions." Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
    Of course! Everybody wants updates. I can't wait to install updates that are little more than a version number bump.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-22-2015 04:52 PM
  5. rhapdog's Avatar
    I wouldn't say "Everybody wants updates."

    Personally, and I know quite a few people that feel the same way, if something works the way I need it to, I don't need an update for it.

    Most software as it updates over the years tends to just add bloat to it. Some add useful features, and that is welcome. If it already does everything it was intended to do and everything the users need, then there is no need to do further updates.

    A lot of software these days, however, seems to be released before it was ready, so that software needs constant updates to bring it up to where it should have been when it was initially released.

    As far as OS updates go, Windows Mobile 5 worked just fine for me for 7 years. Right now I'm perfectly happy with Windows Phone 8.1 as far as just a phone OS. What has me excited about new updates to Windows 10 is the capabilities I will gain between the laptop and phone. I can't say when the last was when I was actually excited or looking forward to an OS update, except when I was waiting for bug fixes in early versions of DOS. I think the last OS I just HAD to go out and get right away was Windows 98, simply because I was so sick of all the crashing in Windows 95. Since then, nothing has really had the absolute wow factor. Windows 8.1 for PC has wowed me even more, but I hated it for the first couple of weeks, until I stopped trying to make it work like XP and started using it for what it was. Then I discovered how glorious it was.

    Yes, I am looking forward to Windows 10, and will be installing previews for my Laptop and Phone, but I'm not one of those who are going to melt down if it isn't distributed immediately, like many seem to be. Then again, a lot of people start sweating and having heart palpitations if forced to do without their phone for an hour.
    negative1ne likes this.
    01-22-2015 06:11 PM
  6. Jas00555's Avatar
    Of course! Everybody wants updates. I can't wait to install updates that are little more than a version number bump.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    You're putting what you want on the general population. Most people I know hate updates, "oh, another one! It works just fine how it is right now!". My family, for example, only updates their stuff so they can get rid of notification.
    01-22-2015 06:15 PM
  7. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Of course! Everybody wants updates. I can't wait to install updates that are little more than a version number bump.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    LOL my sarcasm meter pegged pretty hard on that one.

    Would you then classify moving from 8.1.1 to 10 as just a number change? Remember we are discussing the move to 10 for budget phones in this thread. Not the chimerical Denim on a 520 when you already have P4D.
    01-22-2015 08:02 PM
  8. TechFreak1's Avatar
    If anyone is to be blamed for causing fragmentation is the carriers not Microsoft i.e the Lumia 810, Icon. HTC 8X to name a few.

    OP's concern's was already addressed in this article: All modern Windows Phones can get Windows 10, flagship 'later this summer' | Windows Central

    Here is an extract -

    "Yes, all current Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 devices can get Windows 10 as an upgrade. Sure, there could be some restrictions (mostly the camera), but the Lumia 530 and Lumia 635 are just as likely to get this update as the Lumia 1520 and Lumia 930.


    Microsoft was certainly showing off all of their current phones with Windows 10 today and boasting about this fact.


    Even for the Windows 10 preview program, all of those phones should be able to get the upgrade. Microsoft has said this for a while now, so this isn't even news. However, I can state that as of today, they are still sticking to that message."
    01-23-2015 03:16 PM
  9. tgp's Avatar
    Even for the Windows 10 preview program, all of those phones should be able to get the upgrade.
    This could be the basis that Microsoft is using to promise that all WP8/8.1 devices can get W10. It's very safe for them to give us that. It leaves them an out if they decide not to push W10 officially for some devices.

    I would expect that if any devices are left behind, it would be the low end. The problem is that they are the bulk of WP's out there. There are relatively few existing high end phones, which are the ones that will benefit a lot more from WP10.
    01-23-2015 03:55 PM
  10. TechFreak1's Avatar
    This could be the basis that Microsoft is using to promise that all WP8/8.1 devices can get W10. It's very safe for them to give us that. It leaves them an out if they decide not to push W10 officially for some devices.

    I would expect that if any devices are left behind, it would be the low end. The problem is that they are the bulk of WP's out there. There are relatively few existing high end phones, which are the ones that will benefit a lot more from WP10.
    I highly doubt they (MS) would let that happen, if another debacle akin to the wp7 upgrade fiasco was to happen, the team would get hung, drawn and quartered not just by the users who stuck it for the past couple of years but by the media the world over as it is going to be one of THE high profile releases in the IT industry. Simply because it would be the (in eyes of average Joe and most of the media) the first time where there is a unified experience across a multitude of form factors.

    Of course us techies know that is not entirely true as that experience is determined by what your hard is capable of running.
    01-23-2015 05:35 PM
  11. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    If Microsoft bypasses the 512 MB of RAM devices for Windows 10, I will respond with this:

    GOOD.

    Those types of devices are bottom-of-the-barrel hardware, and working on those devices hurts the high-end badly. The Lumia 435 that's coming has 1 GB of RAM, and it's so cheap it's a new class of budget device on its own. Microsoft shouldn't be trying to placate those who bought phones 2 years ago and don't want to upgrade, when it means avoiding new features and overall ecosystem advancement. At the rate technology often progresses, 2 years on such a cheap device is more than reasonable to expect.

    What's more, the possible scenario is that rather than skipping 512-MB RAM devices, Microsoft will strip out many higher-end features. We've already seen this mindset with keeping Key, Cortana from things under the Snapdragon 800-series devices. Throwing a fit that an old, budget device doesn't run the latest and greatest is silly, in my opinion. Doing it without any confirmation to the fact is just looking for a reason to complain.
    01-23-2015 07:37 PM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    If Microsoft bypasses the 512 MB of RAM devices for Windows 10, I will respond with this:

    GOOD.
    One problem with this remains: most of the WP devices out there fall into this category. The 520 itself makes up about 1/3 of all WP8 devices sold to date. I can't see it going over well if a lot of existing devices don't get W10. That said, it could be that if they do get it, the experience would be gimped to the point of scarcely being an advantage over 8.1.
    chris722 likes this.
    01-23-2015 07:57 PM
  13. rhapdog's Avatar
    If Microsoft bypasses the 512 MB of RAM devices for Windows 10, I will respond with this:

    GOOD.
    Like tgp said, 520 makes up a large portion.

    However, if you're talking that it is okay to abandon "older" hardware, okay, fine. What about the brand new Lumia 635, which has taken off like crazy? It's only 512MB, but it runs like a champ for me. Way better than the 520 that I upgraded from.

    Yes, I expect to be able to upgrade to Windows 10 on my 635 without issues, because Microsoft said the modern phones would be covered, and this one just came out, so it has to be covered. It's not old.

    Do I expect it to do everything with Windows 10 that a future 1530 can do? Nope. But then again, I didn't pay for those features, so I'm not at all upset about it. I do expect to get my money's worth, and that's about it. But I want my money's worth using Windows 10 on both my Laptop and my phone, simply for the tight integration and Universal Apps if nothing else.
    01-23-2015 08:06 PM
  14. muneshyne21's Avatar
    It happened when Android switched from Gingerbread to Honeycomb. The huge population with Froyo and Eclair were left in the dust. The fact that Microsoft can bring even a majority of the old phones into Windows 10 (limited functionality or not) is quite a feat. Even Apple had to leave the iPhone4 behind after the new software with Siri was introduced. You are limited by the hardware requirements. If my 928 can be updated I will be amazed. It keeps my phone relevant after 2 years and 2 major OS updates. That's no small order. No wonder Verizon is pissed at Microsoft...
    chris722 likes this.
    01-24-2015 12:22 AM
  15. Kaushik Dash's Avatar
    Not getting W10 for my 620 will definitely be a let down but frankly, it's an ageing device with only features that are not present in the current low end or even mid range device keeping it alive. If it gets the update, all I want is the new core OS features, not any hardware related features (such as camera improvements, handsfree Cortana, miracast, etc and few softwares such as multi screen (if it comes at all)).
    01-24-2015 01:15 AM
  16. D M C's Avatar
    i think all Wp8 devices will get W10.
    So, instead of worrying or predicting or guessing it would be better to wait until February when everything would be clear.

    Until then enjoy W10 news.
    01-24-2015 01:54 AM
  17. negative1ne's Avatar
    I wouldn't say "Everybody wants updates."

    Personally, and I know quite a few people that feel the same way, if something works the way I need it to, I don't need an update for it.

    Most software as it updates over the years tends to just add bloat to it. Some add useful features, and that is welcome. If it already does everything it was intended to do and everything the users need, then there is no need to do further updates.

    A lot of software these days, however, seems to be released before it was ready, so that software needs constant updates to bring it up to where it should have been when it was initially released.
    And thats why i'm sticking with windows phone 7.8,
    because it just works for me.

    have yet to see a feature in 8/8.1 that makes it worth it.

    nothing in 10 either.

    later
    -1
    01-25-2015 11:37 AM
  18. Godson Arun Kumar's Avatar
    This seems absurd. First of all windows 10 isn't going to be as great an update as 8.1 was to 8 for phones. The basic UI stays the same with no extra animations or widgets-like stuff. The major shift is in the universal apps. 8.1 was a heck of an update both in terms of visual animations and usable features and my 520 has stayed sharp through that. I don't see why a current 8.1 512 MB lumia can in any sense of the world not run windows 10. What I do accept is that some of those so called universal apps may demand 1 GB of RAM at least initially which may be optimized later on as has been done with many apps. And why would windows 10 be shown running on a 1520?, that's simple, the 6 inch full hd screen is better visually for being projected at a press event and there are no 512 MB RAM 6 inch screen lumias.
    Cleavitt76 likes this.
    01-25-2015 12:01 PM
  19. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    Here is the quote from the MS rep that the OP is referring to...

    "Does that mean that today’s Lumia devices can be upgraded to Windows 10?

    We’re making it as easy as possible to get Windows 10. Windows 10 has been designed to run well on today’s Lumia phones. Like any upgrade to a new platform, not every phone will upgrade or support all possible Windows 10 features, and certain features and experiences will require more advanced future hardware. Our goal is for the majority of the Lumia phones running Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 to join the Windows ecosystem along with an expected hundreds of millions of PCs, tablets and other devices running the next generation of Windows."


    First, the quote is from a sales exec at MS. It's a mistake to try to infer technical details from someone that is an expert in sales or marketing.

    Second, his response is quite vague (again, sales guy) and it makes no mention of 512MB devices at all. The OP is making a huge leap by assuming that 512MB devices are the limitation he is referring to. It could be anything from "Hey Cortana" requiring SD800 series hardware which is already the case in WP8.1, to the faster camera support that is also only supported on current gen flagships in WP8.1, or some other new feature that would only be expected on higher end devices anyway.

    Also, even if 512MB devices does turn out to be a major limitation in Windows 10, that still isn't really a good use of the term "fragmentation". This is more of a "legacy hardware" or "hardware limitation" issue than one of fragmentation. I would consider fragmentation to be incompatibilities between current generation software and hardware. This is pretty common in Linux bases OSes and Android because their open source development allows different groups to simultaneously pull them in different and incompatible directions. Limitations caused by obsolete hardware or missing hardware is not the same situation. My laptop's Wifi chipset is too old to support Miracast even though Windows 8.1 supports Miracast. I don't consider that an example of fragmentation though.
    a5cent and Andrew Gordon like this.
    01-25-2015 04:13 PM
  20. Kaushik Dash's Avatar
    Windows 10 for phone's preview would be in the same state as Windows 10 for desktop was when it was initially made available. There could be more UI changes and internal changes that could change hardware requirement. We may even see the start screen UI change, who knows.
    01-27-2015 01:35 AM
  21. Harrie-S's Avatar
    Windows 10 for phone's preview would be in the same state as Windows 10 for desktop was when it was initially made available. There could be more UI changes and internal changes that could change hardware requirement. We may even see the start screen UI change, who knows.
    I think the first windows 10 phone preview will be much more stable than the windows 10 for PC. (Or at least it should). Users and Microsoft can not afford that a lot of devices will frees/brick or what ever.
    So I do not expect a lot of new features in the first preview. But a step by step introduction.
    01-27-2015 02:09 AM
  22. rhapdog's Avatar
    I would hate it if the Windows 10 for phones restricts Cortana all over again like the Windows 10 TP currently does. Not very much functionality there yet.

    Maybe I need to wait until a few other people install it before I do so that I can get that one question answered before I take the plunge.
    01-27-2015 08:21 AM
  23. Kaushik Dash's Avatar
    I think the first windows 10 phone preview will be much more stable than the windows 10 for PC. (Or at least it should). Users and Microsoft can not afford that a lot of devices will frees/brick or what ever.
    So I do not expect a lot of new features in the first preview. But a step by step introduction.
    I agree with you.

    Is it going to be more stable than the desktop? Yes most likely for the reason you state.
    What we see, is it the final UI? Maybe, maybe not. I am sure users will come up with some UI change suggestions in the uservoice and MS will listen to it.
    More features? **** yes, there's no way they are going to include only a couple of new features.
    01-28-2015 08:05 AM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    You're putting what you want on the general population. Most people I know hate updates, "oh, another one! It works just fine how it is right now!". My family, for example, only updates their stuff so they can get rid of notification.
    Dude, he got you good. C'mon man!
    01-28-2015 09:15 AM
49 12

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