02-04-2015 10:34 AM
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  1. ajst222's Avatar
    The problem is that WP fans, generally, can't admit the failure of the WP platform. It's like those generals in a War that simply refuse to admit defeat. It's human, I'm not censoring it. But I think it's time to be a bit more realistic and less hopeful.
    Don't want to quote your entire post, but this is good enough. Windows Phone isn't a failure by any means. It's also not a success by any means. It's been a work in progress, and since 8.1 I believe it's just kind of sitting there in that middle ground. A lot of that had to have been a lot of the reorganizing of Nokia to Microsoft.

    The biggest thing is to get ALL the carriers involved, and cut the sh!t with all the exclusive deals Nokia did. That's something major that stunted the growth of Windows Phone. Microsoft has the power and money to do away with the exclusivity, and I truly hope they do that.

    You also don't seem to think that the universal apps aren't a big deal, which I couldn't disagree more with. If it all works out the way it's supposed to, it'll be something that no other platform has, and will be a massive library of apps across the board. Considering all the PCs running Windows 10, developers would have to be at least A LITTLE enticed to develop. That's another thing to get Windows 10 going in the mobile space.
    spaulagain and clitrenta like this.
    01-26-2015 09:54 AM
  2. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    If it was real Windows on a phone, maybe it would make a dent. Mainly because developers would be able to provide their programs on a phone too. Of course, we'd be talking about full x86 programs, not "Universal apps" which require developers to create the programs as an app to start with (or a massive investment to turn a program into an app). It would be ideal but a really hard project to pull off.
    This is what I've been shouting at MSFT ever since I first saw the WinRT/WinPRT API. Instead of focusing on the true issue when dealing with different device types in Win32, the screen size and input modes, they went off on a tangent with a completely new API. That required massive rewriting of existing code and even structural changes due to the idiotic Async functionality at the API core. There was a zero userbase to sell into and, whatever sales you managed to make, MSFT took 30% compared to 6-10% for Win32 program resellers. It was all pain, no gain.

    All MSFT had to do was define a modern subset of the existing Win32 API, add a scalable UI API and framework, and (most importantly) make the new system backwards compatible with Win7 via a platform update/redistributable. I would have jumped on a system like that. My programs would work better *and* most of my existing customers could use it. Everyone wins.
    01-26-2015 10:11 AM
  3. DJCBS's Avatar
    Don't want to quote your entire post, but this is good enough. Windows Phone isn't a failure by any means. It's also not a success by any means. It's been a work in progress, and since 8.1 I believe it's just kind of sitting there in that middle ground. A lot of that had to have been a lot of the reorganizing of Nokia to Microsoft.
    The deal happened as a result of the failure of WP to take off. Ever since Microsoft took over, things haven't slowed because of the merging of half of Nokia's ex-D&S team. Because those people were put into Microsoft Mobile, a separate company. And the development of Windows Phone wasn't moved into Microsoft Mobile, it was put together with the Windows at Microsoft. Which means, there was absolutely no merging of the teams.
    The Windows team was focused on Windows 10 and the WP team was put together to work in the dependence of what the Windows team was doing.


    The biggest thing is to get ALL the carriers involved, and cut the sh!t with all the exclusive deals Nokia did. That's something major that stunted the growth of Windows Phone. Microsoft has the power and money to do away with the exclusivity, and I truly hope they do that.
    It's really not. I mean, not globally. Your argument here starts from the very limited POV of an American. But the thing is, only in the USA do carriers have that amount of power. American consumers are tied into a system that doesn't work anywhere else in the World. A system based on carrier dependency, exclusive devices and heavy subsidizing.
    But reality is: the rest of the World doesn't work that way. We buy out phones at full price. And we don't need to buy our phones to a specific carrier of them to work.
    The problem of WP sales in the USA may be the carriers, sure. But that problem is derived from a bigger problem which is the way the American market works.


    You also don't seem to think that the universal apps aren't a big deal, which I couldn't disagree more with. If it all works out the way it's supposed to, it'll be something that no other platform has, and will be a massive library of apps across the board. Considering all the PCs running Windows 10, developers would have to be at least A LITTLE enticed to develop. That's another thing to get Windows 10 going in the mobile space.
    I don't think Universal apps are that big of a deal for a very very simple reason: Windows developers target the desktop market. Their programs are designed to work on an x86 frame. And currently, the majority of the market is on Windows XP and 7. Both of which have NO "apps" or Store. And EVEN if Microsoft was able to pass ALL those people from XP and 7 to Windows 10, people would still be using the same programs, the programs they've already bought. Which means they wouldn't be going out to spend money on new versions of the programs just because they *could* be available in the app format.

    Not to mention turning x86 programs into Windows 10 apps would require a financial effort from the developers that simply wouldn't compensate the expenses.

    AND then there's the additional problem that the majority of the apps that people demand when they buy a smartphone (Instagram, Vine, Tindr, Snapchat etc etc) aren't apps aimed at devices other than mobile devices. The chances of Instagram, for example, developing their app as a Universal Windows app are very very slim. Which means, Windows 10 Universal apps wouldn't still solve the app problem. In that sense, having Android apps running on Windows would accomplish that far easily.
    Luisraul924 and FinancialP like this.
    01-26-2015 02:12 PM
  4. Luisraul924's Avatar
    then there's the additional problem that the majority of the apps that people demand when they buy a smartphone (Instagram, Vine, Tindr, Snapchat etc etc) aren't apps aimed at devices other than mobile devices. The chances of Instagram, for example, developing their app as a Universal Windows app are very very slim. Which means, Windows 10 Universal apps wouldn't still solve the app problem.
    This is true. I can't stress enough how true this is. It makes me sad that Windows Phone failed, but it is what it is.
    01-26-2015 03:41 PM
  5. RavenSword's Avatar
    Don't want to quote your entire post, but this is good enough. Windows Phone isn't a failure by any means. It's also not a success by any means. It's been a work in progress, and since 8.1 I believe it's just kind of sitting there in that middle ground. A lot of that had to have been a lot of the reorganizing of Nokia to Microsoft.

    The biggest thing is to get ALL the carriers involved, and cut the sh!t with all the exclusive deals Nokia did. That's something major that stunted the growth of Windows Phone. Microsoft has the power and money to do away with the exclusivity, and I truly hope they do that.

    You also don't seem to think that the universal apps aren't a big deal, which I couldn't disagree more with. If it all works out the way it's supposed to, it'll be something that no other platform has, and will be a massive library of apps across the board. Considering all the PCs running Windows 10, developers would have to be at least A LITTLE enticed to develop. That's another thing to get Windows 10 going in the mobile space.
    Regardless of my past posts bemoaning the platform, id really like to see it succeed and get the apps. Id probaly switch to it too from my iphone. But honestly, I just dont see a compelling reason right now.
    01-26-2015 10:39 PM
  6. spaulagain's Avatar
    Windows Phone won't exist at the end of the year. So no, it's not the year for Windows Phones.

    It's the year for Windows. And for everyone who thinks legacy apps will take Windows into the future, I don't get it. Alls signs point towards them being a dying platform. So yes, Universal apps will take over. Not now, but over the next 5 years, they will phase out the legacy apps. Only niche applications like super customized enterprise apps will remain in that environment.
    01-26-2015 10:51 PM
  7. spaulagain's Avatar
    Don't want to quote your entire post, but this is good enough. Windows Phone isn't a failure by any means. It's also not a success by any means. It's been a work in progress, and since 8.1 I believe it's just kind of sitting there in that middle ground. A lot of that had to have been a lot of the reorganizing of Nokia to Microsoft.

    The biggest thing is to get ALL the carriers involved, and cut the sh!t with all the exclusive deals Nokia did. That's something major that stunted the growth of Windows Phone. Microsoft has the power and money to do away with the exclusivity, and I truly hope they do that.

    You also don't seem to think that the universal apps aren't a big deal, which I couldn't disagree more with. If it all works out the way it's supposed to, it'll be something that no other platform has, and will be a massive library of apps across the board. Considering all the PCs running Windows 10, developers would have to be at least A LITTLE enticed to develop. That's another thing to get Windows 10 going in the mobile space.
    Amen, I can't believe the number of people down playing Universal apps. My dad who's been poo pooing the whole thing for several years (old enterprise/.NET developer) has completely flipped and is in full support now. We're actually in the process of starting a Universal app for a long term client.

    Also, MS is working on supporting iOS and Android through the environment as well (with Xamarin).
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    01-26-2015 10:56 PM
  8. tiziano27's Avatar
    AND then there's the additional problem that the majority of the apps that people demand when they buy a smartphone (Instagram, Vine, Tindr, Snapchat etc etc) aren't apps aimed at devices other than mobile devices. The chances of Instagram, for example, developing their app as a Universal Windows app are very very slim. Which means, Windows 10 Universal apps wouldn't still solve the app problem. In that sense, having Android apps running on Windows would accomplish that far easily.
    Why wouldn't Instagram develop a universal app? Instagram makes money with ads, a universal app increase the engagement of the users and the ad revenue.
    01-27-2015 12:17 AM
  9. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Why wouldn't Instagram develop a universal app? Instagram makes money with ads, a universal app increase the engagement of the users and the ad revenue.
    Because Instagram's primary focus is a mobile experience. The same could be said about Snapchat. If you want to share pictures in a stationary (desktop) environment you can use facebook for that. There's a reason both of these services require an in-app sign up process and don't allow users to sign up using their website, they're forcing a mobile experience.
    DJCBS and FinancialP like this.
    01-27-2015 12:37 AM
  10. paulxxwall's Avatar
    I guess all we can do is cross our fingers....all of this windows 10 stuff sounds like it would work for windows phone...but only in a perfect world😒
    01-27-2015 07:21 AM
  11. Revi Bennett's Avatar
    Did ps3 really win, xbox360 made money for msft, ps3 made none for sony.
    02-01-2015 10:47 AM
  12. colinkiama's Avatar
    Did ps3 really win, xbox360 made money for msft, ps3 made none for sony.



    Actually the super slim PS3 did make Sony money. Also Sony gained money from the games that were purchased, accessories and PS Plus. Even though the PS3 did make Sony lose some profit, they are getting it back thanks to the PS4
    02-01-2015 11:27 AM
  13. clitrenta's Avatar
    I would love to see that. I currently have a Note Edge which I like a lot but I REALLY want to go back to Windows Phone. Thing is, I don't want to make the jump until I see the next (hopefully) high-end Flagship device (preferably Lumia). I'm even willing to overlook some missing apps for me. I don't need a lot but I need what I need. Still, I LOVE the Windows Phone OS and I want to come back but I prefer to wait for the successor to the 1520 at least or even for the 1020. When might that be? As much as I love the Note, WP continues to call to me.
    02-04-2015 09:48 AM
  14. matty032's Avatar
    Will 2015 Be the year for Windows Phone?
    What do you guys think?
    No. I doubt they can catch up at this point.
    02-04-2015 10:34 AM
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