1. Wasim Wes Adetunji's Avatar
    I'm really hoping we as fans can help: (1) make sure Microsoft gets the message of what they're doing wrong (2) help developers, buy apps, spread the word, get people in the habit of using their apps and reviewing them (3) Market windows phone properly and show people why we're so passionate about it

    I think we should organize through a reddit or wpcentral, do a tumblr or other blog to post content, and then promote through other social media channels.

    All that can be done free, and if we crowdfund we can do even more. Any thoughts? I say its better to do this BEFORE W10 to help ensure there is interest prior to launch, so that Msft goes in the right direction along the way, and because now there is optimism and interest may fizzle if we "wait and see" after Windows 10 comes out.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    02-04-2015 08:15 AM
  2. harharharris's Avatar
    The issue is that it is Microsoft who should be doing what you're trying to do now by providing platforms. From what I gather, they get too engrossed in the end users' experience and not building ecosystems as a whole. This is why you see them picking up, marketing and then killing off services and products with great potential so often. You can call them too big to be able to have this kind of focus but on the other hand, Google is doing this exact thing pretty well.
    02-04-2015 08:41 AM
  3. nessinhaw's Avatar
    The issue is that it is Microsoft who should be doing what you're trying to do now by providing platforms. From what I gather, they get too engrossed in the end users' experience and not building ecosystems as a whole. This is why you see them picking up, marketing and then killing off services and products with great potential so often. You can call them too big to be able to have this kind of focus but on the other hand, Google is doing this exact thing pretty well.




    actually 1 and 2 are spot on!



    now, when W10 Preview for phones is launched, we'll have a chance to be beta tester and feedback MS on every bug and everything we think should improve! it's the users helping MS build W10, helping MS take the right direction!

    and yes, they WILL hear Insiders, they need W10 to be successful!

    not hearing the feedbacks would harm it a lot, so I believe they will do everything possible to build W10 to be everything the past versions should have been!



    for number 2, teaching users how to properly review apps might be more helpful than you think!

    like 1 star ranting on a BETA app or just leaving a poor comment, that won't help the developer at all!

    just saying "it sux" won't really help on improving the app and fixing what's wrong! that's why people should learn how to argument and make constructive reviews, be it positive or negative!



    there's actually a lot users can do to help improving apps and the OS, but it's just better to sit tight and complain about everything and blame everyone!



    all I know is that I won't waste Insider program chance to help make a better W10!
    harharharris and Kevin Rush like this.
    02-04-2015 02:21 PM
  4. ajst222's Avatar
    All of this is Microsoft's job, not ours. It's their job to market their platform and gain users. It's their job to get the word out. Don't stress about this. It's not on us, it's on them.

    This reminds me of everyone on CrackBerry saying how all the users needed to start spreading the word and promoting BB10 when that came out. Why should spreading propaganda be on our backs? And artificially downloading apps and supporting developers "just cuz" won't do anything. It's artificial, and might falsely give them the wrong idea about users/growth. Let it naturally play out like it should.

    We're just users. We use the product. Don't fret about all this stuff. Just use it.
    02-04-2015 03:17 PM
  5. qa_ninja's Avatar
    All they really gotta do is get the cell phone carriers to properly educate their employees. Example: Take your phone into your cell phone store and ask them for help changing the wifi settings (or be evil and tell them you can't get LTE in places and your friend said the APN settings are wrong). So many of them are clearly unused how to use the phone. Even various microsoft store employees aren't trained on 8.1 yet and still only know wp8.0. What customer would buy a phone when the sales rep who is the "expert" can't use it?
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    02-04-2015 03:29 PM
  6. ajst222's Avatar
    All they really gotta do is get the cell phone carriers to properly educate their employees. Example: Take your phone into your cell phone store and ask them for help changing the wifi settings (or be evil and tell them you can't get LTE in places and your friend said the APN settings are wrong). So many of them are clearly unused how to use the phone. Even various microsoft store employees aren't trained on 8.1 yet and still only know wp8.0. What customer would buy a phone when the sales rep who is the "expert" can't use it?
    Many, because the customers know even less.
    02-04-2015 03:52 PM
  7. Wasim Wes Adetunji's Avatar
    All of this is Microsoft's job, not ours. It's their job to market their platform and gain users. It's their job to get the word out. Don't stress about this. It's not on us, it's on them.
    No, not artificially downloading apps. I suggested convincing people to make use of apps, for instance, many of my friends and family don't know what their Windows devices can really do, and genuinely impressed when shown.

    And what would you do when people are denigrating your brand, your style? I'm talking about rebutting the ignorance, and educating potential users at the same time.

    The difference here, is that I have confidence that people need to just see WP in action, no other persuasion needed.

    Speaking of which, I wish all the product placement (Mindy Project) Microsoft does had some real demonstrations of their products, not just glimpses of a Surface or a Lumia here and there.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    02-04-2015 09:57 PM
  8. ajst222's Avatar
    No, not artificially downloading apps. I suggested convincing people to make use of apps, for instance, many of my friends and family don't know what their Windows devices can really do, and genuinely impressed when shown.



    And what would you do when people are denigrating your brand, your style? I'm talking about rebutting the ignorance, and educating potential users at the same time.

    The difference here, is that I have confidence that people need to just see WP in action, no other persuasion needed.

    Speaking of which, I wish all the product placement (Mindy Project) Microsoft does had some real demonstrations of their products, not just glimpses of a Surface or a Lumia here and there.

    It's one thing to rebut people who say certain things that are wrong, and it's another thing to go on the offensive and create a whole campaign yourself about getting people to use Windows Phone. Like I said, that's Microsoft's job. Let them market and grow their own platform.

    There are a lot of people who complain about iSheep and Fandroids who try to shove their phones down your throat and constantly go on about how much better their phone is and try to always show you their phone even if you didn't ask. We all know those people. So isn't it hypocritical to do the same? If someone asks about my phone, I'll show them. But it doesn't make sense to "bring awareness" to Windows Phone.

    In fact, that is something that I feel hurt BlackBerry even more. Going back to CrackBerry, so many people there became so aggressive doing what you're asking which definitely turned people away...just because of all the crazed fans.

    It's a phone. That's all I'm saying.

    As far as product placement goes, I think it's a great thing, but not when they basically give an advertisement in the middle of a show. Tell me...who likes that? It has to be subtle. Demonstrations of products aren't subtle.

    "Hold on, let me grab my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 and open up OneDrive to access the Excel document and I'll send it to you using Outlook. Then you can check Outlook on your Nokia Lumia Icon and view it on Excel there. Isn't that easy??!!" *shows the whole process*
    tgp, MikeX74 and Guytronic like this.
    02-04-2015 10:14 PM
  9. ajst222's Avatar
    I think we all want to see Windows 10 to succeed. That's why we're here. But why don't we let Microsoft take care of that?

    Creating a whole campaign on social media sites is not only excessive, but largely useless. Who would be the people searching for this group that was creative? People that were already fans of Windows/Windows Phone! There are only two ways to get the word out...via crazy Windows fans running amuck shoving Windows down everyone's throats, or Microsoft marketing their own product. Which sounds more effective?
    02-04-2015 10:27 PM
  10. LockOnTech's Avatar
    It's one thing to rebut people who say certain things that are wrong, and it's another thing to go on the offensive and create a whole campaign yourself about getting people to use Windows Phone. Like I said, that's Microsoft's job. Let them market and grow their own platform.

    There are a lot of people who complain about iSheep and Fandroids who try to shove their phones down your throat and constantly go on about how much better their phone is and try to always show you their phone even if you didn't ask. We all know those people. So isn't it hypocritical to do the same? If someone asks about my phone, I'll show them. But it doesn't make sense to "bring awareness" to Windows Phone.

    In fact, that is something that I feel hurt BlackBerry even more. Going back to CrackBerry, so many people there became so aggressive doing what you're asking which definitely turned people away...just because of all the crazed fans.

    It's a phone. That's all I'm saying.

    As far as product placement goes, I think it's a great thing, but not when they basically give an advertisement in the middle of a show. Tell me...who likes that? It has to be subtle. Demonstrations of products aren't subtle.

    "Hold on, let me grab my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 and open up OneDrive to access the Excel document and I'll send it to you using Outlook. Then you can check Outlook on your Nokia Lumia Icon and view it on Excel there. Isn't that easy??!!" *shows the whole process*
    Crackberry before was a great place, but now I am afraid to even click on to the website; you are right about the aggressive comment.
    ajst222 likes this.
    02-05-2015 07:38 AM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    There are a lot of people who complain about iSheep and Fandroids who try to shove their phones down your throat and constantly go on about how much better their phone is and try to always show you their phone even if you didn't ask. We all know those people. So isn't it hypocritical to do the same? If someone asks about my phone, I'll show them. But it doesn't make sense to "bring awareness" to Windows Phone.
    I agree with you 100%. I feel the same way. But looking at it as fans (of whichever platform; doesn't matter which one), we are all convinced that we are correct and everybody else is mistaken. Because of this we don't see it as hypocritical. We see it as providing the truth.
    02-05-2015 08:13 AM
  12. ajst222's Avatar
    I agree with you 100%. I feel the same way. But looking at it as fans (of whichever platform; doesn't matter which one), we are all convinced that we are correct and everybody else is mistaken. Because of this we don't see it as hypocritical. We see it as providing the truth.
    I don't think all fans are like that, but there are some people who definitely are. Some don't realize it and some do. However, my point was that it's hypocritical either way and that those who are should realize it and maybe step off the gas petal a little. There are some people who, I swear, take their phones as seriously as religion, and those are the people who see it as providing the truth which is definitely overboard. (see below)

    PS: go to utbblogs.com...it's a site that was formed from all of the crazy fans from CrackBerry who felt that too many people there weren't "true" enough BlackBerry fans. I go there sometimes purely for the entertainment.
    tgp likes this.
    02-05-2015 09:34 AM
  13. Wasim Wes Adetunji's Avatar
    "Hold on, let me grab my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 and open up OneDrive to access the Excel document and I'll send it to you using Outlook. Then you can check Outlook on your Nokia Lumia Icon and view it on Excel there. Isn't that easy??!!" *shows the whole process*
    I'm sorry, you're obviously setting up straw men, so for the non-lawyers in the room, I was thinking they could use the HERE City Lens at some point, or actually SHOW THE SCREEN at some point. In that show, they already shoehorn unnecessary scenes were everybody is texting or showing pictures on their phone or Mindy has a Surface, but they ALWAYS show the outside. That's what I'm talking about.
    02-05-2015 08:57 PM
  14. harharharris's Avatar
    "Hold on, let me grab my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 and open up OneDrive to access the Excel document and I'll send it to you using Outlook. Then you can check Outlook on your Nokia Lumia Icon and view it on Excel there. Isn't that easy??!!" *shows the whole process*
    I get your jokes and all but you can do pretty much the same things on Android AFAIK using Google drive, dropbox and any mail client.
    02-07-2015 08:35 AM
  15. ajst222's Avatar
    I get your jokes and all but you can do pretty much the same things on Android AFAIK using Google drive, dropbox and any mail client.

    And I understand that, but it's also completely irrelevant to my point...
    02-07-2015 11:06 AM
  16. Jas00555's Avatar

    PS: go to utbblogs.com...it's a site that was formed from all of the crazy fans from CrackBerry who felt that too many people there weren't "true" enough BlackBerry fans. I go there sometimes purely for the entertainment.
    Oh wow, I thought you were joking, but I went to that site and.... Wow. Especially this:

    http://utbblogs.com/blackberry/is-ap...ollowers-eyes/

    "This trend looks to continue as Apple in their eternal arrogance believes that nothing will change for them.

    A word to the wise, get off this sinking ship before its too late. They can dazzle all they want with sales figures and numbers but ultimately, unless they truly innovate things are looking bleak for the future and it wont be long when case studies will involve dissecting how a the worlds largest, most profitable and most influential company lost its way and its spot at the top.

    Yes innovation like BlackBerry, BB10, QNX, IOT, BBM and so on and so forth. And no Apple, theres NO app for that."
    ajst222 likes this.
    02-07-2015 06:04 PM
  17. ajst222's Avatar
    Oh wow, I thought you were joking, but I went to that site and.... Wow. Especially this:

    http://utbblogs.com/blackberry/is-ap...ollowers-eyes/

    "This trend looks to continue as Apple in their eternal arrogance believes that nothing will change for them.

    A word to the wise, get off this sinking ship before its too late. They can dazzle all they want with sales figures and numbers but ultimately, unless they truly innovate things are looking bleak for the future and it wont be long when case studies will involve dissecting how a the worlds largest, most profitable and most influential company lost its way and its spot at the top.

    Yes innovation like BlackBerry, BB10, QNX, IOT, BBM and so on and so forth. And no Apple, theres NO app for that."
    Oh jeez...nobody click that link...they'll see where the web traffic comes from and BOOM! They'll get us...

    But yeah, I wasn't joking. Sometimes I bookmark their articles because they're so amusing:

    http://utbblogs.com/backtoblack/the-...em/#more-18096

    http://utbblogs.com/backtoblack/if-b...re/#more-18066

    I mean these were the people who were just so delusional on CrackBerry, that they created a whole other site because they were sick of the "trolls", when in reality, they were the trolls. While CrackBerry still has its fair share of delusional members (more so than any other Mobile Nations site), it's a much better place when a good amount of extreme fanboys went to UTB.
    Jas00555 likes this.
    02-07-2015 06:15 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    Oh jeez...nobody click that link...they'll see where the web traffic comes from and BOOM! They'll get us...

    But yeah, I wasn't joking. Sometimes I bookmark their articles because they're so amusing:

    http://utbblogs.com/backtoblack/the-...em/#more-18096

    http://utbblogs.com/backtoblack/if-b...re/#more-18066

    I mean these were the people who were just so delusional on CrackBerry, that they created a whole other site because they were sick of the "trolls", when in reality, they were the trolls. While CrackBerry still has its fair share of delusional members (more so than any other Mobile Nations site), it's a much better place when a good amount of extreme fanboys went to UTB.
    The article and the comments in that second link make me lose faith in humanity.
    ajst222 likes this.
    02-07-2015 06:42 PM
  19. ajst222's Avatar
    The article and the comments in that second link make me lose faith in humanity.

    And there's definitely been crazier stuff too, so keep that in mind
    02-07-2015 11:00 PM
  20. Wasim Wes Adetunji's Avatar
    "Hold on, let me grab my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 and open up OneDrive to access the Excel document and I'll send it to you using Outlook. Then you can check Outlook on your Nokia Lumia Icon and view it on Excel there. Isn't that easy??!!" *shows the whole process*
    Or, if you weren't being dense, they could just show her doodling with her Surface Pen, or - how many times have they mentioned "Siri" as a punchline or part of a plot in a TV show? It's not that weird to show somebody using their phone, it's pretty standard.....

    the marquee features are easy to demonstrate anyway, the glance screen is distinctive and visible from a distance, taking selfies with the REAR camera is a unique Windows feature, or using the dedicated camera button straight from the locked state, "Hey Cortana", flip to silence, etc
    10-02-2015 07:35 PM
  21. Wasim Wes Adetunji's Avatar
    "Hold on, let me grab my Microsoft Surface Pro 3 and open up OneDrive to access the Excel document and I'll send it to you using Outlook. Then you can check Outlook on your Nokia Lumia Icon and view it on Excel there. Isn't that easy??!!" *shows the whole process*
    Or, if you weren't being dense, they could just show her doodling with her Surface Pen, or - how many times have they mentioned "Siri" as a punchline or part of a plot in a TV show? It's not that weird to show somebody using their phone, it's pretty standard.....

    the marquee features are easy to demonstrate anyway, the glance screen is distinctive and visible from a distance, taking selfies with the REAR camera is a unique Windows feature, or using the dedicated camera button straight from the locked state, "Hey Cortana", flip to silence, etc
    10-02-2015 07:35 PM
  22. Wasim Wes Adetunji's Avatar
    Exactly. He's just being dense. They should, more realistically, show her saying "Hey Cortana, send mom a text", or using a distinctive feature like writing or drawing with her Surface pen. Is that such a weird or artificial scene to write into a TV show?
    10-02-2015 07:38 PM
  23. syspry's Avatar
    MS tried actually PAYING devs just to make apps and even that wasn't enough.
    10-02-2015 08:42 PM

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