07-27-2015 07:25 PM
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  1. leo74's Avatar
    I read this thread with great interest and I agree with the vast majority of what was written.
    As a developer who is determined to grow with the Windows ecosystem, I want to add an observation I made over the last two years.

    WP users are different.

    I don't mean this in a negative way, but it appears to me that WP users are a completely different breed of customer when compared to Android and iOS users.
    First, WP users are more critical towards their platform (which is a good thing, but I don't see this sentiment as defined on other platforms).
    I read a lot of forum posts criticizing WP for missing features or the way features are being implemented.

    On iOS, I hardly hear complaints and I believe it is because the typical iOS user will accept almost everything coming from Apple. Yes, there might be the occasional dissatisfaction when an update goes wrong, but the outrage is usually short and the typical user is back to "happily ever Apple" in no time.
    On Android, the user simply accepts the fact that the OS is sometimes not as stable as it could be, since it offers the ability to customize and the price to be paid (force closing apps, freezes) is simply accepted.

    The same sentiment goes for apps. Admittedly, the app quality on iOS is mostly really good, but the amount of apps doing the same thing in a more or less mediocre way is astounding. And paying for an app on iOS does not seem to be a big deal for a user. After all, you already subscribed to the "there's and app for that" mentality and you will happily download it, even if it is nothing but a web wrapper and costs you a buck.
    On Android, it is the amount of free apps that masks that many of them are badly written and lead to either not working at all, crashing, freezing or whatever else problem you might encounter. It doesn't work? Just download another one. Chances are there are at least 100 more doing the exact same thing.

    Now, the WP user is a lot more demanding, not only towards the OS, but also towards applications being offered on it.
    Please don't get me wrong, because one of the reasons I like developing for Windows and WP is that users hold me to a higher standard.
    But I have to say that I cannot count the occasions where users on WP have complained about an app on WP costing 99 cents or that it runs ads, while it is free on Android for instance.
    And here is the problem: Why would I want to invest into a small percentage of users who don't seem to be willing to support and app? I know a few companies who developed apps for WP with some limited functionality compared to their Android and iOS counterparts, simply because they needed to test the waters before putting any more resources on the project.
    An app needs to make money, it is that simple. If 40% of an already small market don't like your app because it is not free, runs ads, or it is missing a feature in the first release, it simply isn't worth the effort, because the ROI is not there.
    Again, I believe that a more critical user is a good thing, but I can see why some companies don't want to take the leap.

    As for the "big guys" pulling out of WP, I don't like it. I do get it though. If a platform cannot sustain the team which is working on it (development, support), you make a business decision and pull the plug.
    I am not sure what Microsoft or the community can do about it. I certainly don't want the WP user turn into the equivalent of an "iSheep", blindly accepting everything coming their way.
    A friend of mine told me though that he looked into a switch to WP and stuck to iOS because he "read some of the comments from WP users and they were all just complaining".
    I doubt that this indeed was the case, but a negative comment simply sticks to your mind a lot better than a positive one.

    My hope is in Windows 10.
    It has - so far - received overwhelmingly positive response not only from blogs and website, but also from the user base. If Microsoft can keep this enthusiasm up until the launch and for the first 6 months after the launch, I see a real chance of Windows making some serious ground in the mobile market.
    In this regard, Microsoft simply needs to execute flawlessly and over deliver. Anything short of it will result in lack of trust of current users in the platform and ultimately to complete failure.
    I also believe that we as users and developers, will have to do our part.
    As developer, it is my obligation to use the new OS to its fullest ability in my apps. On that end I hope that MSFT will provide more information and maybe even an SDK soon to give me a head start.

    People need to love the phone for the platform and the hardware first and foremost. Once they do, they switch to it and bring with them a lot of incentive to develop for this platform. Microsoft failed in delivering a critical message when it launched WP8 : You don't need an app for that!
    WP8 did many things well right out of the box, integrated in the OS where on other platforms you would need an app.
    But all the user base, the press and even MSFT talked about was the amount of apps available.

    As user, we need to go out and stop being the weird kid in the neighborhood. If MSFT gets this one right, there is no reason not to display your WP proudly and loudly as the single best thing there is.
    It will be up to Microsoft to build something that is at least as "cool" as iOS and at least as "personal" as Android and to market it in a way that the user really gets it, and it will be up to us users to spread the word wherever we can and show that W10/WP is something anyone should REALLY want.
    02-09-2015 10:02 AM
  2. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    People don't complain about IOS apps because most are well written and executed properly for the platform. Yes they usually cost more than either WP or Android but that is the acceptance of those devices. Even the ported apps are better because of the way things are done with IOS.

    Android users put up with a lot to keep the cost down. Some apps are expensive though and most offer the options for being add free or additional features for a premium price.

    WP users want cheap prices... No let me digress they demand everything for free and complain needlessly when it isn't. Heck they complain needlessly about beta versions that aren't completely finished and bad mouth developers... I have seen this on this forum first hand...

    This whole mindset needs to change because Microsoft isn't going back to having everything baked into the OS anytime soon. They need developers and they need to be able to push updates easily to the consumer without interference from the carriers.

    The OS has to evolve into something better than it is and this makes some people very angry. They want different from Android and IOS but they refuse to accept the majority of smartphone users demand something different than WP.

    Blending functionality and looks is what is needed but with the option to have it remain the same for those who want it. Having it look like I want it to is not a security threath nor will it impose any hardship for anyone who does not want it to look like mine provided it remains a option. What harm would being able to have widgets and live tiles on my start screen would there be or to be able to theme things to my liking... None really... It doesn't matter who had something first or who is copying who as long as what what is done is better implemented than what they have... Apple has done this from the beginning and it hasn't hurt their sales any...

    Good apps cost money... Top of the line spec'd phones cost money... If people want the best they need to realize that they have to pay for it or you wind up with adds and crappy apps and phones that don't get updates This sense of entitlement needs to change.

    Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
    Edge007, MikeSo and aximtreo like this.
    02-09-2015 12:04 PM
  3. RavenSword's Avatar
    Honestly, I think the situation is more bad than good. Although it'll be hard for people here to handle, the fact of the matter is that the problems with windows phone are ones that neither MS or members here can solve. We and MS can't force Devs to make apps for the platform or support it. You can't throw money at the problem, that has been tried before and failed miserably. Without market share, Devs don't care. And you can't make people buy something they don't want.

    It sucks. Windows phone is a great platform: but I honestly can't see how they get out of this hole. And I maybe give it another 2 or 3 years until we potentially see MS ditching it. Unless they can make massive gains.

    We maybe will then have to focus on other MS related things like surface, windows, and Xbox. All of which are pretty great.
    Edge007 and aximtreo like this.
    02-09-2015 06:27 PM
  4. MaxyBley's Avatar
    Look, I love to be optimistic but. it's Apple dude. Apple..... Apple..... It's...Ap.. I think you get the idea. No? Apple would not bother with Windows Phone at all. Apple has always and will always have something against anything Microsoft. "but they have iTunes for windows" Because, pretty much every other PC runs windows. Apple will always try to not touch Windows at all. That's why you see iTunes as the only program they develop for Windows. Heck, they had Quicktime and Safari but they stopped those a long time ago. Microsoft on the other hand has even provide free office on iOS and such. You don't see no love from Apple.

    Anyways, all I want to do is to put everyone hopes down. I don't want no one to get disappointed for when Apple officially says they will not develop the new app for WP. I'm just trying to warm people.
    02-11-2015 03:41 AM
  5. Ryzzlle's Avatar
    What app do we need from Apple?
    02-11-2015 05:25 AM
  6. dKp1977's Avatar
    What app do we need from Apple?

    Their great map app! I always wanted to be navigated into a river!
    Ryzzlle, aximtreo and a5cent like this.
    02-11-2015 05:42 AM
  7. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    What app do we need from Apple?
    If you used Apple products you would know full well that they have some great apps that would be nice if they were ported over. They wouldn't be free or $ 0.99 which most people are used to though. Most of the better apps cost more. Most on Apple don't have issues paying for their apps and programs, and that is one of the reasons developers love the platform.

    Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
    02-11-2015 07:18 AM
  8. dKp1977's Avatar
    If you used Apple products you would know full well that they have some great apps that would be nice if they were ported over. They wouldn't be free or $ 0.99 which most people are used to though. Most of the better apps cost more. Most on Apple don't have issues paying for their apps and programs, and that is one of the reasons developers love the platform.

    Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8

    What apps are those? I don't remembers any app made by Apple other than the core ones and maps. And none of them are really great. They aren't bad, but not great either.
    02-11-2015 07:20 AM
  9. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    Look, I love to be optimistic but. it's Apple dude. Apple..... Apple..... It's...Ap.. I think you get the idea. No? Apple would not bother with Windows Phone at all. Apple has always and will always have something against anything Microsoft. "but they have iTunes for windows" Because, pretty much every other PC runs windows. Apple will always try to not touch Windows at all. That's why you see iTunes as the only program they develop for Windows. Heck, they had Quicktime and Safari but they stopped those a long time ago. Microsoft on the other hand has even provide free office on iOS and such. You don't see no love from Apple.

    Anyways, all I want to do is to put everyone hopes down. I don't want no one to get disappointed for when Apple officially says they will not develop the new app for WP. I'm just trying to warm people.
    What are you talking about? What apps? Yes, Safari for Windows was discontinued, but what purpose did it serve other than just a browser nobody needed? QuickTime for Windows is still available, in fact I believe they updated both the regular and Pro version just a few months ago. iTunes continues to be available, like you said. Their other exclusive iOS and Mac apps like FaceTime, etc. are not available on Android either. The only app Android may get but not Windows is a new app that replacement for Beats Music that they recently purchased. It hasn't yet been confirmed that no WP app will be available anymore.
    I would hardly consider Apple to be the problem though; it's much more so Google that doesn't have apps that people want.
    02-11-2015 07:49 AM
  10. Yasser Aboobakar's Avatar
    Just my opinion...i think there was much more innovation in hardware when it was nokia...elop did succeed i wud say to bring nokia back to life...the transition thou caused from nokia to microsoft caused an stagnation in development with first microsoft phone being a disapointing entry level...on the other hand joe belfiore once mentioned now that nokia will become part of microsoft they can make hardware and software work in harmony compared to before..neverthless 2015 is the year for the people at microsoft to make it work again...or else i think they just have to press the kill switch...we want to keep it alive thus sometimes it feel wp users are neglected by microsoft itself...just an opinion
    02-20-2015 02:17 PM
  11. DavidinCT's Avatar
    WP users want cheap prices... No let me digress they demand everything for free and complain needlessly when it isn't. Heck they complain needlessly about beta versions that aren't completely finished and bad mouth developers... I have seen this on this forum first hand...
    This is, no question 100% Microsoft's fault and I think they F'ed it up here. By Whoring out cheap phones (yea, you can buy a Windows Phone 8.1 device for $39.99 or less from some carriers) they attracted the "cheaper" client. Who expects everything for free.

    You don't see a iPhone for $39.99 unless it's a iPhone 3, a modern iPhone 6 is $200 on contract, the Windows Phone $39.99 device is No contract. If you want a brand new model, your only option is cheap phones, there is no NEW high end models. It's the Market MS was going after.

    By MS whoring out these phones at a low cost to gain market share(where they are still losing on anyway), they just got the clients that they don't really want. A client who is not going to buy apps even if they are $.50 each no matter how good they are.

    I know MS is trying to get that share but, I think that is the worst thing they could of done for the platform.

    I don't mind paying for a good app or game (depending on price of course) but, the quality of apps are not there compared to iOS or Android

    I kind of forced my wife to get a 928 last year, she had a failing iPhone 4, she learned it and downloaded all the apps she could and that she needs.

    No local apps (local news that gives weather and local news), no specialty apps (not huge websites), and the over all quality of apps. She showed me 25 apps on her iPhone 4 and showed me the same apps on WP. After the 5th app, it was such a big difference, I told her to return the 928. I paid to get her an iPhone 5...

    She liked WP, she said that many times but, the Apps killed it for her and I can see why, with WP sitting at about 2.7% share, the high QUALITY apps are not going to come. Once we are over 10%, they will flood in but, will we ever get there, that is the question.
    theefman likes this.
    02-25-2015 01:31 PM
  12. Ali Collins's Avatar
    The high quality apps will come in time, they just may not be immediately familiar. New things can be awesome as well. I'd like to think Windows Phone is on the up and up, it's a great piece of hardware and the number of good quality apps is rising.
    02-26-2015 06:45 PM
  13. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    It sure feels like the "season of hell" for this user, despite the frigid temps and seemingly endless winter.

    I'm honestly at the point where I might just stop reading tech news; delete Twitter; delete the Windows Central app; drop my all of my TWiT podcasts.

    The constant drumbeat of negativity, and daily news stories about anti-Microsoft behavior is starting to raise my blood pressure. And almost every day it's something new to aggravate the situation.

    Just this week we've had the following:
    • Google buys Softcard IP. Softcard kills WP app
    • Pebble spurns *free* WP app and support (and D Rubino suggests Dunkin Donuts may have also rejected WP app from MS)
    • Google says they will back Apple and not support Touch Events standard
    • Tech press falls over themselves to praise Moto E, ignoring/forgetting that Lumia 535 brought basically same specs, value and build quality to market several months ago (yes, I know there is a Moto E variant with 4G/LTE)
    • Today's false report about Waze update reminds us all that Waze will NEVER be updated for WP


    And earlier this month we had Bank of America and Chase pull their apps within days of each other.

    Seriously, this stuff just infuriates me. Microsoft is bending over backwards to please developers, OEM partners, consumers on other platforms and the tech press; and they just continually get beat up for it. It shouldn't bother me at all. It's a stupid phone, or a computer- but it does. And I just don't want to deal with it anymore.
    Last edited by Chris_Kez; 02-26-2015 at 07:50 PM.
    a5cent and FindleInClev like this.
    02-26-2015 07:22 PM
  14. paulm187's Avatar
    Perhaps the writings on the wall...

    :-(
    03-01-2015 05:41 AM
  15. realwarder's Avatar
    It's easy to focus on the negative. But this year there is positive to. More OEMs. Windows 10 which is a major upgrade. More games and other app wins. Major banks etc. in places like UK and India, new flagship coming. Growth in several markets.

    Sure, you still can't get Snapchat, but this was never going to be an easy game - coming into a market with 2 established platforms.

    As I say, the wins outweigh the losses. It's human nature to focus on the negative news but that won't help anything.

    Think of talking about a phone to a friend. One conversation talks about negative, one positive. Which helps?
    a5cent likes this.
    03-01-2015 06:23 AM
  16. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    It sure feels like the "season of hell" for this user, despite the frigid temps and seemingly endless winter.

    I'm honestly at the point where I might just stop reading tech news; delete Twitter; delete the Windows Central app; drop my all of my TWiT podcasts.

    The constant drumbeat of negativity, and daily news stories about anti-Microsoft behavior is starting to raise my blood pressure. And almost every day it's something new to aggravate the situation.

    Just this week we've had the following:
    • Google buys Softcard IP. Softcard kills WP app
    • Pebble spurns *free* WP app and support (and D Rubino suggests Dunkin Donuts may have also rejected WP app from MS)
    • Google says they will back Apple and not support Touch Events standard
    • Tech press falls over themselves to praise Moto E, ignoring/forgetting that Lumia 535 brought basically same specs, value and build quality to market several months ago (yes, I know there is a Moto E variant with 4G/LTE)
    • Today's false report about Waze update reminds us all that Waze will NEVER be updated for WP


    And earlier this month we had Bank of America and Chase pull their apps within days of each other.

    Seriously, this stuff just infuriates me. Microsoft is bending over backwards to please developers, OEM partners, consumers on other platforms and the tech press; and they just continually get beat up for it. It shouldn't bother me at all. It's a stupid phone, or a computer- but it does. And I just don't want to deal with it anymore.
    ​Softcard killed ALL apps of theirs. :|
    03-01-2015 03:27 PM
  17. BBerryPowerUser's Avatar
    I've spent a lot of time and effort with WindowsPhone 8.0 and 8.1. I have also spent a lot of time and effort with Androd (from 2.3 to 4.4), with iPhone up to 8.4 and with my BlackBerry 9900 OS 7. Sorry, I don't do BB10 - maybe some day. I like BIS for my company business.

    I converted to Windows 8.0 and 8.1 for a full year. It's by far my favorite GUI on any phone anywhere. If it had a few more apps that I personally need (like Banking), I'd carry it as my 2nd phone. I had to drop it (lack of Banking and a few other key apps) and now carry an Adroid 4.4 as my 2nd phone. I must admit, Android has come a long way in their GUI, Apps and Widgets. It's a very robust platform. iOS is there because it works for so many. Personally, I'm not a fan of the big button, with hunting on screen for back and menu buttons. I prefer Android's back and Menu and the fact that you don't have to plaster all of your apps on screens. Sure, you can put them in folders on iOS, but that's it. Android lets you keep them hidden totally in an App menu, and put icons or widgets on screen when you see fit. Better for the GUI from my point of view. But iOS apps are a bit more beautiful and elegant on many apps. They still have the app edge IMO. Windows has a lot of catching up to do.

    I am a creature of functionality and efficiency and convenience. Many of us are. iOS and Android do a lot of things conveniently for you. As does the old BIS BlackBerry Platform. No you say? BlackBerry is at the very bottom of productivity? Hmm. Well, BlackBerry Travel can run circles around TripIt or WorldMate for travel AUTOMATICALLY plugging in to your calendar with reminders for business travel. NO user interaction required, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Nobex Contacts is the best auto contact capture I have ever used on any platform. Invitations from colleagues to attend meetings or WebEx or GOTOMEETING similar online meetings are easily accepted and responded to automatically, and email... well, email is what BlackBerry was DESIGNED to do.

    So we have come full circle to Windows. It's by far the most elegant GUI that I have ever used. I love the live tiles. I like most of the apps that ARE available, but there are some that are sorely lacking in functionality. Then there are inherent flaws in the OS for certain things that I have desperately tried to bring to MS attention both online and in their stores. Among the most severe of these FOR ME, is the invitation acceptance flaw for things like GOTOMEETING invitations. You get invitations, you accept them, and voila! Once you accept, rather than the OS populating your calendar with the details of the meeting, it simply sends the acceptance, AND FULLY DELETES the original invitation, and only puts "GOTOMEETING XXX Time XXX Date" in your calendar. How nice. With WHOM? About WHAT? What is the dial in number? What is the web address? Oh, wait, it's all been deleted by the WindowsPhone OS when you accepted the invitation, and you didn't write it down. Why would you write it down? Whether or not you have installed the GoToMeeting App, the acceptance is independent and is a calendar function with or without an ICS importer. It SHOULD populate all the details in your calendar, right? Wrong. So you can just call and find out the details from the meeting organizer if you remember whom that was. Sure, you are the only one calling, because you are the only one using WindowsPhone, and you look like a disorganized goofball, but that's life, right? Major flaw in the OS. Major. Windows needs to FIX THIS.

    Still, through all this, I like WindowsPhone. I'm glad it's here to stay, because I believe some day, I'll bury the Berry for Business (I have to retire sometime, yes?) and ax the Android, and be left with WindowsPhone. Sorry iOS. You are just not my cup of tea. WindowsPhone, you are beautiful. Seriously. Just fix some issues and do what you can to get developers back. You can't loose banking apps like Chase and expect users to be OK with it. Some of us need to have remote check deposit. Some of us need to actually accept meeting invitations and have the data saved in our calendars. Some of us need XYZ app, just because we need it.

    Hopefully, all these issues will be resolved in a year or two. I hope so.

    Finally, CORTANA. Personally, I think it's the best personal assistant out there. It needs to be broken out from the phone because it's that important. I've used Siri extensively. I've used Google Now (voice) extensively. Cortana has the edge. Her location based reminders are superior. Her personality is superior. Her voice recognition is superior. Her power over the phone is superior. In some areas, she is about equal to the others, but in most cases, she is better. Her music recognition is outstanding. The integration into calendar is wonderful, and it's a better all around experience using Cortana. Then, there is her singing and joke telling. OK, that's a crazy playful thing and has nothing to do with productivity, but it does make the phone a little more "fun" as I have heard some people say. I tend to agree.
    Last edited by BBerryPowerUser; 07-23-2015 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Fixed some typos
    Guytronic and a5cent like this.
    07-23-2015 07:22 PM
  18. Great deal's Avatar
    Windows train is coming, its big, its full of opportunity. I wont forget some of the players who dropped support though - they will be coming back with their tails between their legs soon. It just shows their lack of vision. Bring on W10 and the future!
    07-24-2015 08:50 AM
  19. BBerryPowerUser's Avatar
    Windows train is coming, its big, its full of opportunity. I wont forget some of the players who dropped support though - they will be coming back with their tails between their legs soon. It just shows their lack of vision. Bring on W10 and the future!
    I sure hope you are correct.
    07-24-2015 10:30 AM
  20. tedj101's Avatar
    I think that for all the negativity, there's positivity. Of all the apps pulled lately I am glad to say I don't use any of them, nor can I imagine them being missed by all that many users.

    In a way W10 IS a reboot because it stirs the pot up far more than previous versions have done. Let's face it, Ballmer was a buffoon. Now he's gone it feels like things are actually starting to move.
    The loss of the bank apps is real. Chase and BOA are huge! It is fast becoming necessary to have a smart phone for deposits. That recently became true of even my local bank - and they don't have a WP version of the app.

    Without support from the banking community, WP will take a hit.

    <TED>
    07-25-2015 04:31 AM
  21. Great deal's Avatar
    One app will mean access to Xbox users, WP users, PC/Tablet users, Hololens, IoT? Continuum? The amount of effort required to reach (potentially) a massive base of users is minimal, create once spread everywhere, that's MS strategy, make it easy and too good to ignore.
    07-25-2015 05:25 AM
  22. princeton211's Avatar
    Hey there trying you dont know how hard satya is trying you try being the ceo of microsoft and see how it feels

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    07-25-2015 12:56 PM
  23. syspry's Avatar
    Windows train is coming, its big, its full of opportunity. I wont forget some of the players who dropped support though - they will be coming back with their tails between their legs soon. It just shows their lack of vision. Bring on W10 and the future!
    Where have I heard that before, it sounds familiar? I think it was wp7. And wp8. And wp8.1. You'll forgive me if I think it's more prudent as a consumer to continue using Android and Apple phones until such claims actually become reality.

    MS and Blackberry have continued to make these promises for years now without delivering. How irresponsible and unwise of a purchaser to allow myself to repeatedly believe them would I be? Quite.
    myfyp2 likes this.
    07-27-2015 06:33 PM
  24. worldspy99's Avatar
    So I had to phone screen a candidate today while I was offsite. I forwarded my work email to my personal email account on my Lumia 830 running Win10TP. The meeting got scheduled correctly on the calendar and since the phone number was in the subject I had the number to call the candidate but the attachment in the original email which was forwarded (the resume of the candidate in MS Word) never showed up....what the heck? How am I supposed to now interview the candidate? Luckily I had my tablet with me and that had the attachment and I was able to interview the candidate just fine. So I can agree with what BBerryPowerUser is describing.

    Also I use GoTo Meeting quite a bit and need the information to make calls routinely. I always do that on my Nexus 7 tablet though...
    07-27-2015 07:25 PM
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