In regards to the OP, are app develops dropping their apps, perhaps bc they need to be redone for Windows 10??
Season Of Hell For Windows Phone
- Thread starter Edge007
- Start date
dKp1977
New member
Unlikely. Microsoft will most certainly mess with some APIs again, but none of the changes would render entire apps useless. That would ultimately kill WP.
AirSlab
New member
I feel as though the OP is really passionate about the current situation and that's always good to see. If it helps, Edge007, I have a 930 and 2 of my friends have also picked one up, and my gran has a 520.
My thoughts:
1) Firstly, Nadella has a lot of rubbish to fix. 2014 was a messy year for WP with the acquisition of Nokia, but I feel he's started well and genuinely excited about the road ahead.
2) I've read of people saying things like "WP will ALWAYS be behind" or "WP will NEVER succeed" . Just remember, Nokia was NEVER going to not be Number 1 and Android was NEVER going to a true competitor to iOS. Always is a long time.
3) I feel as though Microsoft needs to get themselves into a predictable release cycle. By this I mean that every *insert month here* we need to be seeing a new WP flagship along with a phablet and of course other lower end devices throughout the year. My dad REALLY wanted a WP but with no concrete evidence of when the next flagship would arrive, he picked himself up an iPhone 6.
4) The app gap exists but is closing and instead, I feel as though a bigger issue is search "discoverability" . The search function on the Store is really poor IMO. Perception, however, that we have no apps is hurting us, though for me, I have all I need.
5) I honestly believe that WP is the best OS there is. It isn't as customizable as Android, but it's elegant, slick and works well.
6) I think it's important to remember that the problems WP has aren't going to go away overnight. That's why, I've committed myself to this platform for 2 years. That will give MS enough time to straighten everything out. I don't expect WP to kill Android by end 2016, but I expect and believe there will be progress.
7) I realise that WP is the smallest of the big OS's. This however, does NOT mean we have to be negative or assume that it's behind the curve. Seeing problems is easy, suggesting solutions not so much. I'm sick of the whole world going off about WP being bad or acting like WP users need to be the type that hide in the corner at dinner parties. Keep faith, and enjoy a platform that's getting better all the time.
My thoughts:
1) Firstly, Nadella has a lot of rubbish to fix. 2014 was a messy year for WP with the acquisition of Nokia, but I feel he's started well and genuinely excited about the road ahead.
2) I've read of people saying things like "WP will ALWAYS be behind" or "WP will NEVER succeed" . Just remember, Nokia was NEVER going to not be Number 1 and Android was NEVER going to a true competitor to iOS. Always is a long time.
3) I feel as though Microsoft needs to get themselves into a predictable release cycle. By this I mean that every *insert month here* we need to be seeing a new WP flagship along with a phablet and of course other lower end devices throughout the year. My dad REALLY wanted a WP but with no concrete evidence of when the next flagship would arrive, he picked himself up an iPhone 6.
4) The app gap exists but is closing and instead, I feel as though a bigger issue is search "discoverability" . The search function on the Store is really poor IMO. Perception, however, that we have no apps is hurting us, though for me, I have all I need.
5) I honestly believe that WP is the best OS there is. It isn't as customizable as Android, but it's elegant, slick and works well.
6) I think it's important to remember that the problems WP has aren't going to go away overnight. That's why, I've committed myself to this platform for 2 years. That will give MS enough time to straighten everything out. I don't expect WP to kill Android by end 2016, but I expect and believe there will be progress.
7) I realise that WP is the smallest of the big OS's. This however, does NOT mean we have to be negative or assume that it's behind the curve. Seeing problems is easy, suggesting solutions not so much. I'm sick of the whole world going off about WP being bad or acting like WP users need to be the type that hide in the corner at dinner parties. Keep faith, and enjoy a platform that's getting better all the time.
WPit
New member
Thank you! I've also noticed! Only a few people have mentioned this here, I'm afraid. I second! +925 +930
And with Work Assistant, I believe we'll capture Office pole position again among mobiles?
Last edited:
HoosierDaddy
Well-known member
Got to be THE silliest thing I've read here. But maybe you are on to something: the reason there are so few WP apps, is as you point out, even maintenance for an already published simple app costs more than the profits from thousands or even just mere hundreds of Windows Phone customers. Yeah, right.
TheCudder
New member
But we're not really bashing Balmer. He had a great idea to move towards mobile, but the execution was terrible --- and I know he wasn't the guy behind it all, but he certainly had the power to change the execution & overall plan. From the Windows 8 UI/UX, alienating the core functionality of Windows, Windows RT, poor marketing, over bloated company (unnecessary divisions) and fragmentation within the company --- I'd have to say Balmer has to take the blame on all of that.
MikeSo
New member
Maintenance costs a lot of money. Every other change in the system would have to be done so the WP8 app kept working, and for a bank of this size that is a lot of money. I have no doubt that the very few WP8 customers who can't use the mobile website instead was worth losing.
MikeSo
New member
I agree about Windows Central doing some real reporting about the app situation. It's a good opportunity for the site to establish itself, if nothing else.
MDMcAtee
New member
Nadella is still fighting the "old boys club" with all the different fractions at Microsoft.
There is a chance for WP becoming a real Player in mobile but it's going to take a heck of a lot to convince people who are invested on the other platforms to switch.
Microsoft is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't namely because they are going to po many of their supporters when they restructure their phone line. The premise of not having to have high end spec's to have the best experience with it is going to go away. Today's phones are soon going to become a extention of the desktop and to do this they will need to be able to run all the programs without bogging down and receive all updates when produced
All one has to do is to look at what is being said about the 512 mb phones not getting all the features of Windows 10 to see the anger there.
I think the season of hell hasn't really started yet. I think it is yet to come. Loosing a few banking apps isn't the end of the world and won't make or break the platform , and the patents Microsoft gained from buying Nokia will pay dividends for years to come.
I'm going to reverse my long standing position here. I feel Microsoft has put itself in a very bad position by allowing multiple oems to produce Windows phones. While to some myself included thought that the more the merrier was/is a good thing, it's only going to be problematic in the long run.
Microsoft needs to consolidate it's entire mobile phone line to 4 phones. Phablet Flagship medium tier and low-end from 1 manufacturer. The experience needs to be the same across all 4 so people will know exactly what they are going to get with each model at the price point they are buying. Apple now does it with 2 models and is just 1 of the reasons they do so well. Once the hardware issue has been rectified across the entire family of phones the software can be corrected. People know what they are getting with a iPhone and while it may be boring to the majority here by being the same, they have developed a sales leader... Google on the other hand promotes being different but all the same and that is a lie because they aren't the same experience... I know this I use Android phones. Microsoft is in a very unique position right now with Windows 10 and if they could capitalize on being this they could very easily overtake the other platforms market share.
I understand why Microsoft chose to flood the low-end market but that strategy is going to backfire on them in the long-term. They need to consolidate now just as they needed to loose the legacy devices on the desktop to move forward without bogging the new system down with code and none of this is easy when faced with just how many older devices are still in use and the costs to upgrade. Dammed if you do... Dammed if you don't... The only true business model that works is for planned obsolescence and this doesn't sit well with many people.
Nope this isn't the season of hell for Microsoft... Not yet... That will be when they do what is needed to the mobile division because that will be the only way they will ever be a true leader in the market. The experience needs to be the same across all screen sizes and if the hardware isn't the same there is no way that they can ever deliver on the experience. This is Apple's strength and why they do so well and why everyone else is struggling to break even.
Software tweaks only go so far to help but it is the hardware that makes or breaks the phone. While I know that many people can't afford a new phone every other year, its going to be the norm to have the best experience with it.
I want Windows phone to succeed but I don't see how it can if they don't change how they do things and the "old boys club" is allowed to keep running things there.
Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
There is a chance for WP becoming a real Player in mobile but it's going to take a heck of a lot to convince people who are invested on the other platforms to switch.
Microsoft is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't namely because they are going to po many of their supporters when they restructure their phone line. The premise of not having to have high end spec's to have the best experience with it is going to go away. Today's phones are soon going to become a extention of the desktop and to do this they will need to be able to run all the programs without bogging down and receive all updates when produced
All one has to do is to look at what is being said about the 512 mb phones not getting all the features of Windows 10 to see the anger there.
I think the season of hell hasn't really started yet. I think it is yet to come. Loosing a few banking apps isn't the end of the world and won't make or break the platform , and the patents Microsoft gained from buying Nokia will pay dividends for years to come.
I'm going to reverse my long standing position here. I feel Microsoft has put itself in a very bad position by allowing multiple oems to produce Windows phones. While to some myself included thought that the more the merrier was/is a good thing, it's only going to be problematic in the long run.
Microsoft needs to consolidate it's entire mobile phone line to 4 phones. Phablet Flagship medium tier and low-end from 1 manufacturer. The experience needs to be the same across all 4 so people will know exactly what they are going to get with each model at the price point they are buying. Apple now does it with 2 models and is just 1 of the reasons they do so well. Once the hardware issue has been rectified across the entire family of phones the software can be corrected. People know what they are getting with a iPhone and while it may be boring to the majority here by being the same, they have developed a sales leader... Google on the other hand promotes being different but all the same and that is a lie because they aren't the same experience... I know this I use Android phones. Microsoft is in a very unique position right now with Windows 10 and if they could capitalize on being this they could very easily overtake the other platforms market share.
I understand why Microsoft chose to flood the low-end market but that strategy is going to backfire on them in the long-term. They need to consolidate now just as they needed to loose the legacy devices on the desktop to move forward without bogging the new system down with code and none of this is easy when faced with just how many older devices are still in use and the costs to upgrade. Dammed if you do... Dammed if you don't... The only true business model that works is for planned obsolescence and this doesn't sit well with many people.
Nope this isn't the season of hell for Microsoft... Not yet... That will be when they do what is needed to the mobile division because that will be the only way they will ever be a true leader in the market. The experience needs to be the same across all screen sizes and if the hardware isn't the same there is no way that they can ever deliver on the experience. This is Apple's strength and why they do so well and why everyone else is struggling to break even.
Software tweaks only go so far to help but it is the hardware that makes or breaks the phone. While I know that many people can't afford a new phone every other year, its going to be the norm to have the best experience with it.
I want Windows phone to succeed but I don't see how it can if they don't change how they do things and the "old boys club" is allowed to keep running things there.
Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
Alain_A
New member
leo74
New member
I read this thread with great interest and I agree with the vast majority of what was written.
As a developer who is determined to grow with the Windows ecosystem, I want to add an observation I made over the last two years.
WP users are different.
I don't mean this in a negative way, but it appears to me that WP users are a completely different breed of customer when compared to Android and iOS users.
First, WP users are more critical towards their platform (which is a good thing, but I don't see this sentiment as defined on other platforms).
I read a lot of forum posts criticizing WP for missing features or the way features are being implemented.
On iOS, I hardly hear complaints and I believe it is because the typical iOS user will accept almost everything coming from Apple. Yes, there might be the occasional dissatisfaction when an update goes wrong, but the outrage is usually short and the typical user is back to "happily ever Apple" in no time.
On Android, the user simply accepts the fact that the OS is sometimes not as stable as it could be, since it offers the ability to customize and the price to be paid (force closing apps, freezes) is simply accepted.
The same sentiment goes for apps. Admittedly, the app quality on iOS is mostly really good, but the amount of apps doing the same thing in a more or less mediocre way is astounding. And paying for an app on iOS does not seem to be a big deal for a user. After all, you already subscribed to the "there's and app for that" mentality and you will happily download it, even if it is nothing but a web wrapper and costs you a buck.
On Android, it is the amount of free apps that masks that many of them are badly written and lead to either not working at all, crashing, freezing or whatever else problem you might encounter. It doesn't work? Just download another one. Chances are there are at least 100 more doing the exact same thing.
Now, the WP user is a lot more demanding, not only towards the OS, but also towards applications being offered on it.
Please don't get me wrong, because one of the reasons I like developing for Windows and WP is that users hold me to a higher standard.
But I have to say that I cannot count the occasions where users on WP have complained about an app on WP costing 99 cents or that it runs ads, while it is free on Android for instance.
And here is the problem: Why would I want to invest into a small percentage of users who don't seem to be willing to support and app? I know a few companies who developed apps for WP with some limited functionality compared to their Android and iOS counterparts, simply because they needed to test the waters before putting any more resources on the project.
An app needs to make money, it is that simple. If 40% of an already small market don't like your app because it is not free, runs ads, or it is missing a feature in the first release, it simply isn't worth the effort, because the ROI is not there.
Again, I believe that a more critical user is a good thing, but I can see why some companies don't want to take the leap.
As for the "big guys" pulling out of WP, I don't like it. I do get it though. If a platform cannot sustain the team which is working on it (development, support), you make a business decision and pull the plug.
I am not sure what Microsoft or the community can do about it. I certainly don't want the WP user turn into the equivalent of an "iSheep", blindly accepting everything coming their way.
A friend of mine told me though that he looked into a switch to WP and stuck to iOS because he "read some of the comments from WP users and they were all just complaining".
I doubt that this indeed was the case, but a negative comment simply sticks to your mind a lot better than a positive one.
My hope is in Windows 10.
It has - so far - received overwhelmingly positive response not only from blogs and website, but also from the user base. If Microsoft can keep this enthusiasm up until the launch and for the first 6 months after the launch, I see a real chance of Windows making some serious ground in the mobile market.
In this regard, Microsoft simply needs to execute flawlessly and over deliver. Anything short of it will result in lack of trust of current users in the platform and ultimately to complete failure.
I also believe that we as users and developers, will have to do our part.
As developer, it is my obligation to use the new OS to its fullest ability in my apps. On that end I hope that MSFT will provide more information and maybe even an SDK soon to give me a head start.
People need to love the phone for the platform and the hardware first and foremost. Once they do, they switch to it and bring with them a lot of incentive to develop for this platform. Microsoft failed in delivering a critical message when it launched WP8 : You don't need an app for that!
WP8 did many things well right out of the box, integrated in the OS where on other platforms you would need an app.
But all the user base, the press and even MSFT talked about was the amount of apps available.
As user, we need to go out and stop being the weird kid in the neighborhood. If MSFT gets this one right, there is no reason not to display your WP proudly and loudly as the single best thing there is.
It will be up to Microsoft to build something that is at least as "cool" as iOS and at least as "personal" as Android and to market it in a way that the user really gets it, and it will be up to us users to spread the word wherever we can and show that W10/WP is something anyone should REALLY want.
As a developer who is determined to grow with the Windows ecosystem, I want to add an observation I made over the last two years.
WP users are different.
I don't mean this in a negative way, but it appears to me that WP users are a completely different breed of customer when compared to Android and iOS users.
First, WP users are more critical towards their platform (which is a good thing, but I don't see this sentiment as defined on other platforms).
I read a lot of forum posts criticizing WP for missing features or the way features are being implemented.
On iOS, I hardly hear complaints and I believe it is because the typical iOS user will accept almost everything coming from Apple. Yes, there might be the occasional dissatisfaction when an update goes wrong, but the outrage is usually short and the typical user is back to "happily ever Apple" in no time.
On Android, the user simply accepts the fact that the OS is sometimes not as stable as it could be, since it offers the ability to customize and the price to be paid (force closing apps, freezes) is simply accepted.
The same sentiment goes for apps. Admittedly, the app quality on iOS is mostly really good, but the amount of apps doing the same thing in a more or less mediocre way is astounding. And paying for an app on iOS does not seem to be a big deal for a user. After all, you already subscribed to the "there's and app for that" mentality and you will happily download it, even if it is nothing but a web wrapper and costs you a buck.
On Android, it is the amount of free apps that masks that many of them are badly written and lead to either not working at all, crashing, freezing or whatever else problem you might encounter. It doesn't work? Just download another one. Chances are there are at least 100 more doing the exact same thing.
Now, the WP user is a lot more demanding, not only towards the OS, but also towards applications being offered on it.
Please don't get me wrong, because one of the reasons I like developing for Windows and WP is that users hold me to a higher standard.
But I have to say that I cannot count the occasions where users on WP have complained about an app on WP costing 99 cents or that it runs ads, while it is free on Android for instance.
And here is the problem: Why would I want to invest into a small percentage of users who don't seem to be willing to support and app? I know a few companies who developed apps for WP with some limited functionality compared to their Android and iOS counterparts, simply because they needed to test the waters before putting any more resources on the project.
An app needs to make money, it is that simple. If 40% of an already small market don't like your app because it is not free, runs ads, or it is missing a feature in the first release, it simply isn't worth the effort, because the ROI is not there.
Again, I believe that a more critical user is a good thing, but I can see why some companies don't want to take the leap.
As for the "big guys" pulling out of WP, I don't like it. I do get it though. If a platform cannot sustain the team which is working on it (development, support), you make a business decision and pull the plug.
I am not sure what Microsoft or the community can do about it. I certainly don't want the WP user turn into the equivalent of an "iSheep", blindly accepting everything coming their way.
A friend of mine told me though that he looked into a switch to WP and stuck to iOS because he "read some of the comments from WP users and they were all just complaining".
I doubt that this indeed was the case, but a negative comment simply sticks to your mind a lot better than a positive one.
My hope is in Windows 10.
It has - so far - received overwhelmingly positive response not only from blogs and website, but also from the user base. If Microsoft can keep this enthusiasm up until the launch and for the first 6 months after the launch, I see a real chance of Windows making some serious ground in the mobile market.
In this regard, Microsoft simply needs to execute flawlessly and over deliver. Anything short of it will result in lack of trust of current users in the platform and ultimately to complete failure.
I also believe that we as users and developers, will have to do our part.
As developer, it is my obligation to use the new OS to its fullest ability in my apps. On that end I hope that MSFT will provide more information and maybe even an SDK soon to give me a head start.
People need to love the phone for the platform and the hardware first and foremost. Once they do, they switch to it and bring with them a lot of incentive to develop for this platform. Microsoft failed in delivering a critical message when it launched WP8 : You don't need an app for that!
WP8 did many things well right out of the box, integrated in the OS where on other platforms you would need an app.
But all the user base, the press and even MSFT talked about was the amount of apps available.
As user, we need to go out and stop being the weird kid in the neighborhood. If MSFT gets this one right, there is no reason not to display your WP proudly and loudly as the single best thing there is.
It will be up to Microsoft to build something that is at least as "cool" as iOS and at least as "personal" as Android and to market it in a way that the user really gets it, and it will be up to us users to spread the word wherever we can and show that W10/WP is something anyone should REALLY want.
MDMcAtee
New member
People don't complain about IOS apps because most are well written and executed properly for the platform. Yes they usually cost more than either WP or Android but that is the acceptance of those devices. Even the ported apps are better because of the way things are done with IOS.
Android users put up with a lot to keep the cost down. Some apps are expensive though and most offer the options for being add free or additional features for a premium price.
WP users want cheap prices... No let me digress they demand everything for free and complain needlessly when it isn't. Heck they complain needlessly about beta versions that aren't completely finished and bad mouth developers... I have seen this on this forum first hand...
This whole mindset needs to change because Microsoft isn't going back to having everything baked into the OS anytime soon. They need developers and they need to be able to push updates easily to the consumer without interference from the carriers.
The OS has to evolve into something better than it is and this makes some people very angry. They want different from Android and IOS but they refuse to accept the majority of smartphone users demand something different than WP.
Blending functionality and looks is what is needed but with the option to have it remain the same for those who want it. Having it look like I want it to is not a security threath nor will it impose any hardship for anyone who does not want it to look like mine provided it remains a option. What harm would being able to have widgets and live tiles on my start screen would there be or to be able to theme things to my liking... None really... It doesn't matter who had something first or who is copying who as long as what what is done is better implemented than what they have... Apple has done this from the beginning and it hasn't hurt their sales any...
Good apps cost money... Top of the line spec'd phones cost money... If people want the best they need to realize that they have to pay for it or you wind up with adds and crappy apps and phones that don't get updates This sense of entitlement needs to change.
Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
Android users put up with a lot to keep the cost down. Some apps are expensive though and most offer the options for being add free or additional features for a premium price.
WP users want cheap prices... No let me digress they demand everything for free and complain needlessly when it isn't. Heck they complain needlessly about beta versions that aren't completely finished and bad mouth developers... I have seen this on this forum first hand...
This whole mindset needs to change because Microsoft isn't going back to having everything baked into the OS anytime soon. They need developers and they need to be able to push updates easily to the consumer without interference from the carriers.
The OS has to evolve into something better than it is and this makes some people very angry. They want different from Android and IOS but they refuse to accept the majority of smartphone users demand something different than WP.
Blending functionality and looks is what is needed but with the option to have it remain the same for those who want it. Having it look like I want it to is not a security threath nor will it impose any hardship for anyone who does not want it to look like mine provided it remains a option. What harm would being able to have widgets and live tiles on my start screen would there be or to be able to theme things to my liking... None really... It doesn't matter who had something first or who is copying who as long as what what is done is better implemented than what they have... Apple has done this from the beginning and it hasn't hurt their sales any...
Good apps cost money... Top of the line spec'd phones cost money... If people want the best they need to realize that they have to pay for it or you wind up with adds and crappy apps and phones that don't get updates This sense of entitlement needs to change.
Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
Honestly, I think the situation is more bad than good. Although it'll be hard for people here to handle, the fact of the matter is that the problems with windows phone are ones that neither MS or members here can solve. We and MS can't force Devs to make apps for the platform or support it. You can't throw money at the problem, that has been tried before and failed miserably. Without market share, Devs don't care. And you can't make people buy something they don't want.
It sucks. Windows phone is a great platform: but I honestly can't see how they get out of this hole. And I maybe give it another 2 or 3 years until we potentially see MS ditching it. Unless they can make massive gains.
We maybe will then have to focus on other MS related things like surface, windows, and Xbox. All of which are pretty great.
It sucks. Windows phone is a great platform: but I honestly can't see how they get out of this hole. And I maybe give it another 2 or 3 years until we potentially see MS ditching it. Unless they can make massive gains.
We maybe will then have to focus on other MS related things like surface, windows, and Xbox. All of which are pretty great.
MaxyBley
New member
Look, I love to be optimistic but. it's Apple dude. Apple..... Apple..... It's...Ap.. I think you get the idea. No? Apple would not bother with Windows Phone at all. Apple has always and will always have something against anything Microsoft. "but they have iTunes for windows" Because, pretty much every other PC runs windows. Apple will always try to not touch Windows at all. That's why you see iTunes as the only program they develop for Windows. Heck, they had Quicktime and Safari but they stopped those a long time ago. Microsoft on the other hand has even provide free office on iOS and such. You don't see no love from Apple.
Anyways, all I want to do is to put everyone hopes down. I don't want no one to get disappointed for when Apple officially says they will not develop the new app for WP. I'm just trying to warm people.
Anyways, all I want to do is to put everyone hopes down. I don't want no one to get disappointed for when Apple officially says they will not develop the new app for WP. I'm just trying to warm people.
Ryzzlle
New member
dKp1977
New member
MDMcAtee
New member
If you used Apple products you would know full well that they have some great apps that would be nice if they were ported over. They wouldn't be free or $ 0.99 which most people are used to though. Most of the better apps cost more. Most on Apple don't have issues paying for their apps and programs, and that is one of the reasons developers love the platform.
Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
dKp1977
New member
What apps are those? I don't remembers any app made by Apple other than the core ones and maps. And none of them are really great. They aren't bad, but not great either.
Maaz Mansori
New member
What are you talking about? What apps? Yes, Safari for Windows was discontinued, but what purpose did it serve other than just a browser nobody needed? QuickTime for Windows is still available, in fact I believe they updated both the regular and Pro version just a few months ago. iTunes continues to be available, like you said. Their other exclusive iOS and Mac apps like FaceTime, etc. are not available on Android either. The only app Android may get but not Windows is a new app that replacement for Beats Music that they recently purchased. It hasn't yet been confirmed that no WP app will be available anymore.
I would hardly consider Apple to be the problem though; it's much more so Google that doesn't have apps that people want.
Yasser Aboobakar
New member
Just my opinion...i think there was much more innovation in hardware when it was nokia...elop did succeed i wud say to bring nokia back to life...the transition thou caused from nokia to microsoft caused an stagnation in development with first microsoft phone being a disapointing entry level...on the other hand joe belfiore once mentioned now that nokia will become part of microsoft they can make hardware and software work in harmony compared to before..neverthless 2015 is the year for the people at microsoft to make it work again...or else i think they just have to press the kill switch...we want to keep it alive thus sometimes it feel wp users are neglected by microsoft itself...just an opinion
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