06-25-2015 12:38 PM
67 123
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  1. AndyCalling's Avatar
    I have an EE secure sim and a Denim 930 but there seems to be no way to tell the Windows Phone wallet to use my Visa card details for tap and pay. In fact the wallet seems totally unaware that I have turned NFC & Tap and Pay on. How do I make this work? EE make a special app for Android but I was given to believe such is not required for WP as tap and pay is baked in. MS's implementation seems needlessly complicated though. Why not make it simple? The way MS have set up this supposedly super simple payment method has totally removed the main benefit. Cash is still way simpler to use. This needn't have been an issue.

    Please, if someone can give me a step by step guide to getting tap and pay to work on my 930 I will be really grateful. Really, there could be cake.
    02-25-2015 01:17 PM
  2. jhoff80's Avatar
    I have an EE secure sim and a Denim 930 but there seems to be no way to tell the Windows Phone wallet to use my Visa card details for tap and pay. In fact the wallet seems totally unaware that I have turned NFC & Tap and Pay on. How do I make this work? EE make a special app for Android but I was given to believe such is not required for WP as tap and pay is baked in. MS's implementation seems needlessly complicated though. Why not make it simple? The way MS have set up this supposedly super simple payment method has totally removed the main benefit. Cash is still way simpler to use. This needn't have been an issue.

    Please, if someone can give me a step by step guide to getting tap and pay to work on my 930 I will be really grateful. Really, there could be cake.
    With Windows Phone 8.1, Microsoft removed this built-in support, because carriers weren't going along with it. They removed it in favor of an app-based method, as typified by the soon-to-be discontinued Softcard. I'm hoping at this point the carriers will just give up trying to control it and let Microsoft use their own solution, but I doubt that.
    02-25-2015 01:49 PM
  3. ashram's Avatar
    yes, it sucks that we had a chance to "taste" tap + pay in the US, only for Google to take it away
    02-25-2015 01:52 PM
  4. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I have an EE secure sim and a Denim 930 but there seems to be no way to tell the Windows Phone wallet to use my Visa card details for tap and pay. In fact the wallet seems totally unaware that I have turned NFC & Tap and Pay on. How do I make this work? EE make a special app for Android but I was given to believe such is not required for WP as tap and pay is baked in. MS's implementation seems needlessly complicated though. Why not make it simple? The way MS have set up this supposedly super simple payment method has totally removed the main benefit. Cash is still way simpler to use. This needn't have been an issue.

    Please, if someone can give me a step by step guide to getting tap and pay to work on my 930 I will be really grateful. Really, there could be cake.
    Have you tried logging into your EE account and adding your visa card as an active payment card, which should then download an encrypted key thus enabling tap to pay. That is my understanding how the system is supposed to work on 8.1.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 02-25-2015 at 02:18 PM.
    02-25-2015 02:08 PM
  5. jhoff80's Avatar
    Have you tried logging into your EE account and adding your visa card as an active payment card, which should then download an encrypted key thus enabling tap to pay. That is my understanding how the system is supposed to work on 8.1.
    It's not. First of all, Orange France was the only carrier (in the world, so far as I know) to ever partner with Microsoft directly for tap-to-pay directly from the Wallet app, and that functionality was only there in Windows Phone 8.0. Secondly, as I already said, Windows Phone 8.1 removed NFC payment functionality from the Wallet app in favor of an app-based experience. So pretty much everyone is now out of luck unless Microsoft has their own brand-new solution to unveil.
    02-25-2015 02:41 PM
  6. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Yeah, it's like saying to the world,
    "Hey, I've not only got a lot of money to spare because I can afford an iPhone, but I also keep all my money in my iPhone. Steal it if you can!"

    Yep, that's the kind of message I like to send.

    Though I feel that Microsoft should get a TAP+PAY solution in order to stay relevant in the long run, I feel that it will come in time enough. Personally, I won't be using it.
    ​Have fun trying to steal it when you need the fingerprint to use Apple Pay.
    02-25-2015 04:48 PM
  7. TechFreak1's Avatar
    It's not. First of all, Orange France was the only carrier (in the world, so far as I know) to ever partner with Microsoft directly for tap-to-pay directly from the Wallet app, and that functionality was only there in Windows Phone 8.0. Secondly, as I already said, Windows Phone 8.1 removed NFC payment functionality from the Wallet app in favor of an app-based experience. So pretty much everyone is now out of luck unless Microsoft has their own brand-new solution to unveil.
    If that was the case then Joe Belfiore would have stated that explicitly at the launch, whereas he only stated that only a secure sim was needed whereas in the US both the secure sim and softcard (by their former name) was needed.
    02-25-2015 07:06 PM
  8. jhoff80's Avatar
    If that was the case then Joe Belfiore would have stated that explicitly at the launch, whereas he only stated that only a secure sim was needed whereas in the US both the secure sim and softcard (by their former name) was needed.
    ​They did explicitly state at launch that it was entirely dependent on carriers. Anyway, regardless of how they announced it, those are the facts. Feel free to pretend they're not, but that's the truth. Windows Phone 8.0 Wallet NFC payments only ever worked with Orange France, no matter if you have a secure SIM or not. (The secure SIM doesn't do anything without a payment path).

    Windows Phone 8.1 doesn't have NFC payment support in the wallet app at all: "Note: NFC functionality has been decoupled so that apps can now support NFC payments inside their own experiences. It will not be covered in this talk." http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2014/2-533
    02-25-2015 07:10 PM
  9. TechFreak1's Avatar
    ​They did explicitly state at launch that it was entirely dependent on carriers.
    I am aware of that, hence the requirement for secure sims.
    02-25-2015 07:22 PM
  10. jhoff80's Avatar
    And again, a secure element SIM is only the start of what is needed. Sorry, but you're just completely wrong here.
    02-25-2015 07:26 PM
  11. theefman's Avatar
    Carriers have no business interfering with how people pay for goods and services, this should have been a joint effort with banks and retailers, not carriers. As apple have just proven. The insanity of cellphone carriers ruling everything in the US has to stop.
    02-25-2015 07:26 PM
  12. jhoff80's Avatar
    Carriers have no business interfering with how people pay for goods and services, this should have been a joint effort with banks and retailers, not carriers. As apple have just proven. The insanity of cellphone carriers ruling everything in the US has to stop.
    I agree, but if carriers (in the US) don't agree to subsidize Microsoft's phones, then Windows Phone really is dead. So if the carriers want something, Microsoft unfortunately has to go with it. At less than 3% market share worldwide, you can't single-handedly force an Apple Pay-like solution without carrier cooperation.
    02-25-2015 07:35 PM
  13. agentmikeyd99's Avatar
    Really ? First BOA and we finally get a Tap+Pay option and they are going to pull it because it's Windows Phone ?

    I might to starting to shop for a new phone, will keep my ICON but, will swap back and forth...No marketshare does this...
    Well said...its starting to suck on WP and MS seems to have no leadership in planning for these types of issues. What a shame, as the platform is the best, but most may never know how good it is, as we will all probably leave eventually(all 2.7% of us). Tweet ur concerns to @LumiaUS and ask for what MS' solution is
    02-25-2015 07:41 PM
  14. FearL0rd's Avatar
    What is Tap to pay, and how do I use it?


    Tap to pay is a feature for Windows Phone that allows you to set up a credit or debit card, then tap your phone to an NFC (near field communication) reader to make wireless transactions. Not all phones support NFC, and even fewer support making NFC transactions. Here's what you'll need to use this feature:
    • A phone with a built-in NFC chip – Many Windows Phones have one. To find out if your phone does, go to the App list and tap Settings Settings icon. If you see NFC in the Settings list, then your phone has a chip inside it.
    •A mobile operator that supports NFC transactions – At the moment, only a small number of mobile operators offer phones that support this feature. However, we're working hard to get additional mobile operators on board, and we expect the number of Windows Phones that support NFC transactions to grow.
    • A payment SIM card in your phone – This is a special, secure SIM card that you can only get from your mobile operator. If your phone supports multiple SIM cards, the payment SIM must be in SIM slot 1
    Wallet FAQ for Windows Phone | Windows Phone How-to (United States)
    02-25-2015 07:52 PM
  15. KeegdnaB42's Avatar
    Whatever agreement the carriers made with Microsoft to make them abandon the native wallet support better be null and void by this deal. They sold out to a competitor that they knew would screw Microsoft over and if they don't allow a solution then I don't see how that isn't grounds for an antitrust lawsuit.
    FearL0rd and rhapdog like this.
    02-25-2015 07:55 PM
  16. xJustiss's Avatar
    Hey, it seems like here are some people with a good knowledge about the wallet.

    here are my Questions, there was a feature showing offers me to save locals deals directly into the wallet, called "Deals".
    Is this feature still alive, or is it a US only feature cause Local Scout seems to ne US only too.

    My second Question, i heard about a feature in Wallet, like in Passbook from iOS, that it can show me Tickets and Deals etc, automatically in my Lock Screen, based on my current Location or the Time.
    Also US only or is it a Coming feature?

    And third, the possibility to See your transactions from your Bank Account right in Wallet(if you got an app for it) still alive?

    I would try it by my own but till now theres no was or Apps in Germany -.-

    Thanks for your answers :)
    02-26-2015 06:07 AM
  17. neo158's Avatar
    I think the best solution for Microsoft is to adopt some form of Apple Pay, this then gains them a payment system while further bolstering Apple Pay.
    02-26-2015 06:58 AM
  18. jhoff80's Avatar
    Hey, it seems like here are some people with a good knowledge about the wallet.

    here are my Questions, there was a feature showing offers me to save locals deals directly into the wallet, called "Deals".
    Is this feature still alive, or is it a US only feature cause Local Scout seems to ne US only too.

    My second Question, i heard about a feature in Wallet, like in Passbook from iOS, that it can show me Tickets and Deals etc, automatically in my Lock Screen, based on my current Location or the Time.
    Also US only or is it a Coming feature?

    And third, the possibility to See your transactions from your Bank Account right in Wallet(if you got an app for it) still alive?

    I would try it by my own but till now theres no was or Apps in Germany -.-

    Thanks for your answers :)
    Deals is no more (as of Windows Phone 8.1.) The rest of your questions all require apps that have been written to support Wallet. Unfortunately, there are only a small handful of apps that have actually been written for Wallet. There was one airline that used that feature, but I believe they pulled their app. There's a few Starbucks card apps that use it (Buckstar being the best example, in my opinion), but other than a very small handful of exceptions, Microsoft's Wallet has been nearly useless in practice.
    02-26-2015 10:14 AM
  19. xJustiss's Avatar
    Sad to hear that, i hope they will get it up...
    Whats about the second feature does it work?
    Thanks for your response
    02-26-2015 10:23 AM
  20. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Struggling to understand the mire MS have set up here. So, I have a secure sim, and my Denim 930 supports NFC payments, so all I need is an app that connects my visa card in the wallet to the NFC payment feature in the phone. So, my questions are:

    Can't a third party app act as a go between to allow the visa card in my wallet to talk to the NFC mechanism? If so, are any signs of development going on?

    Why isn't Visa making an app? That would surely solve everything? Any signs of that?

    Why can't MS make a downloadable generic app that can be used in situations where credit card companies are happy to leave it to others, or until they decide to take up the torch? Ok, if they have one of those incomprehensible 'special deals' with carriers in the US to encourage their customers to use Apple or Google phones instead (which MS seem fond of getting in to) it could be for non-US countries only (negligible WP customers in the US anyway, so no loss) so what's the issue?

    Waiting for EE to port over their Android app is no solution, as I only have one lifetime to use. I would prefer to link to my Visa card anyway, not my phone bill. Why hold out for some link to my phone bill when Visa is even better? I don't get it.
    02-26-2015 10:44 AM
  21. xJustiss's Avatar
    Well i think, we need to ne hopfull
    Keep in mind, the fact of a canceled feature doesnt mean it wont come back.
    As you see, they canceled the Integration of Messengers into the Messaging app.
    But with Windows 10 it will come back.
    Its better to cancel something, then giving a bad experience.

    I hope Windows will step forward and gain more Percentage, to get more support from Developers and Carriers.
    In my eyes iOS and Android, isnt an alternative to WP.
    With all their Apps and features, it still wouldn't give me a great experience.
    02-26-2015 11:22 AM
  22. rhapdog's Avatar
    Well Microsoft really doesn't need softcard at all, tap+pay (microsoft's implementation) works fine with secure sims outside the US as that is all that is required. So there is no reason why it wouldn't work in the US for the interim period. The only problem you have really is carrier support and that just lets it down completely in my opinion.
    I think the best solution for Microsoft is to adopt some form of Apple Pay, this then gains them a payment system while further bolstering Apple Pay.
    For now, MS will still need a secure SIM in order to handle an Apple Pay type system. However, Joe Belfiore did hint at hardware not currently available on any current model WP to be released on phones after W10, and that it would be worth the wait. I think it is highly likely that they will be implementing the fingerprint scanner and internal encryption/decryption hardware necessary to adopt the exact same thing that Apple Pay is doing. I certainly hope so. Visa Token Services, which is what "Apple Pay" uses and calls it a "special name", is available for every mobile operating system on the market. You just need an app and some way to secure the transaction to use it. Apple Pay has baked it into the OS so that it is activated with the combination of tap+pay and fingerprint scanner. W10 could do the same thing, but the tap+pay could launch an app (like the wallet) to request the pin or whatever if you're on a model without a fingerprint scanner. If the app launches automatic, then it would be quite easy to use. No fuss, no muss.

    Is MS working on it? I don't know. But they SHOULD be. Such a simplistic, elegant solution would further bolster Apple Pay, which is being implemented for the CHIP+PIN cards being issued around the world, and which US companies will be getting in line with quite soon. The NFC tech wasn't being implemented for Apple Pay, but for the CHIP+PIN and Visa Token Services associated with it. Apple pay found a way to take advantage of it, and Microsoft needs to jump on this bandwagon. Google and Softcard is trying to find a "better" way, but this way is already being standardized around the world, with heavily invested roll-outs planned by major banks, retailers, and credit-card companies world-wide during the next one to two years.

    What does that mean? Softcard was already doomed. The carriers saw it and were happy to sell it to Google. Quit complaining that Google has cut off Microsoft from using it. It will only serve to help Microsoft in the future if Microsoft will just jump on the Standard that Google still thinks (wrongly) that they have time to change in their favor. This will hurt Google, and if MS will adopt this Visa Token Services, then it will help MS.

    You want to do something to help here? Get on the Windows 10 uservoice and tell Microsoft to adopt the Visa Token Services, and make tap+pay open the wallet to enter a pin so that the wallet app handles the transaction the way Visa Token Services has set up.

    I don't have time to set it up today, because I've wasted too much time reading articles on the internet and researching this the last couple of days (how it works, what banks are doing, how plastic cards are involved, all that.) It's time for me to join life and spend some time with my family out in the snow. Have fun, people. Someone link to a uservoice after it is set up, and I'll put my votes in on it after checking back later.
    02-26-2015 02:37 PM
  23. jason hendry1's Avatar
    yeh cash is good but to be fair its 2015 and most people wana use their phones to pay for things. I haven't carried much cash with me for about 10 years now, there's really no need too. I actually only go to one place that required cash and even then I sometimes use alternatives cause I don't wana got to the hole in the wall. For me phone paying is the future and one I cant wait for. I just hope Microsoft implement something, a lot sooner rather than later cause being behind this late in the game is not a good idea. I thought all we needed was a active sim and a company like visa and master card to support that. At vodaphone uk this isn't happening, Vodaphone offer their own alternative which involves putting a sticker on your phone lol. To me I might as well glue my debit card to the phone lol. Either way they don't seem to get the point that people want to use their already walleted and nfc capable phones lol.
    02-27-2015 05:35 AM
  24. hotphil's Avatar
    yeh cash is good but to be fair its 2015 and most people wana use their phones to pay for things. I haven't carried much cash with me for about 10 years now, there's really no need too.
    In many places that's not the case. Cash is still king. Even in more cultured places, such as Australia, it's not uncommon for major IT glitches to rule out any electronic POS transactions for 24+ hours. That's when you need that emergency $50 in your wallet.
    ​It'd be great if a reliable, universal mobile payment system could be set up. But whilst financial institutions, national tel co's and all intermediaries are still involved it's a challenge.
    ​Moving away from NFC, there's probably room for some thought around how Uber do charging. It's location based, so reliant (at POS) on GPS only. Which instantly gets rid of most of the issues associated with NFC. There might be some avenues to explore there for an enterprising person.
    02-27-2015 06:01 AM
  25. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Here you go, used the extract below as I felt it summed up nicely :).

    Visa Token Services, which is what "Apple Pay" uses and calls it a "special name", is available for every mobile operating system on the market. You just need an app and some way to secure the transaction to use it. Apple Pay has baked it into the OS so that it is activated with the combination of tap+pay and fingerprint scanner. W10 could do the same thing, but the tap+pay could launch an app (like the wallet) to request the pin or whatever if you're on a model without a fingerprint scanner. If the app launches automatic, then it would be quite easy to use. No fuss, no muss.
    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...973-tap-to-pay
    HeyCori, sahib lopez and rhapdog like this.
    02-27-2015 10:08 AM
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