The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
03-01-2015 07:53 AM
80 1234
tools
  1. Madeye234's Avatar
    I will say it loud and clear , the #1 Reason is because of the APP GAP with Android and IOS period!! Hardware is great on my 1520, Lumia 2520 Tablet, Lumia 920 (x2) , my Nokia 520....so I cant find a decent app for ,my home security system, my local news app, my cable company app hasnt been updated in over a year. My kids school wants them to use iPads or use Android/IOS apps on their phones for homework help, My favorite airline app Delta has more 1 ratings than I can count and no updates for a year. The cons are getting longer folks...Even my company has apps designed for iOS or Android 3x as many than windows. Developers simply could care less and retail sales agents could care less than that. You have to educate the sales agent, they want to push Apple or Samsung. Plus it doesn't help that Windows always get negative press from the Techwriters, they want to love the hardware of the Nokias but despise the OS. Even the long time loyalists like myself are getting tired of waiting for the Denim update for the 1520 and the lack of the flagship phone until end of 2015 isn't helping perception at all. Windows 10 better be a blockbuster or Satya Nadella gets run out of town.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    02-26-2015 12:33 PM
  2. HeyCori's Avatar
    Even the long time loyalists like myself are getting tired of waiting for the Denim update for the 1520 and the lack of the flagship phone until end of 2015 isn't helping perception at all. Windows 10 better be a blockbuster or Satya Nadella gets run out of town.
    You must not of heard

    The AT&T Lumia 1520 is now getting the Lumia Denim software update | Windows Central
    02-26-2015 12:34 PM
  3. Madeye234's Avatar
    Well that's one off my long list of grievances lately, the others still apply. Appeased for now ;)

    PS Reading negative message boards is an unhealthy obsession.
    HeyCori and Tom Snyder like this.
    02-26-2015 12:46 PM
  4. the real smackbo's Avatar
    One more astrologer to the count, seems we have quite a number of them over here.
    Im not an "astrologer" im a windows phone fan thats pissed off and im not the only one either .. Im tired of waiting for some magical appgap to close .. It hasnt happened yet and It'll never happen dude .. MSFT has given up on WP you dont get it? .. So with my tech experience and my business experience.. The WP OS will be dead within 3 years. Its all about apps .. Why have a smartphone you can do anything with wtf??!!
    Dr_8820 and Tom Snyder like this.
    02-26-2015 01:50 PM
  5. Dr_8820's Avatar
    Patience.

    MS always plays the long game.

    Windows Mobile 6.5.3 is out, Microsoft says "WP7 will change everything!" HD2 never updated.
    WP7-7.5-7.8 comes out, Microsoft says "WP8 will change everything!" HD7 never updated.
    WP8.1 comes out, Lumia 810 never updated. I think that 5 years is enough patience.
    02-26-2015 01:58 PM
  6. rhapdog's Avatar
    ​The problem is that while MS are buying/rebadging/updating apps on other platforms, they've done nothing for their own platform. Enticing other platform users with nice shiny app experiences that are way ahead of what they've got on their own platform could backfire. Android users are going to be disappointed if they switch to Windows Phone and expect Outlook etc.
    You haven't really been paying attention to what Microsoft is doing, have you? They bought Accompli, as a single example because I'm not going to go naming every blasted one. Now, Accompli gets edited just enough to become "Outlook". All they did was a search and replace for the name and recompiled it, for crying out loud. The WP app had never been written. How stupid would it be for Microsoft to not keep it on those platforms? The name change was to get the mindset of the users of those other phone systems to thinking about Microsoft, while Microsoft starts porting all those apps over to WP.

    There was a two-fold purpose in buying those app companies:
    #1: Be able to get the app ported to WP, which can't be done overnight. The code has to be written, as it had never been ported before! (So stop complaining that MS is releasing it on other platforms and not WP. It was already on those platforms, and they bought it to work on the WP one.)
    #2: Get people using other phones to start thinking more positively about Microsoft (which is working, by the way.) That, in the long run, is a great way to get people to switch.

    Now, Microsoft needs to purchase a home automation/security company and do a WP app for that.
    neo158, a5cent and Avi Anand like this.
    02-26-2015 02:02 PM
  7. Geddeeee's Avatar
    Microsoft has been far from sitting on their hands this last year. Windows 10 ring a bell?
    And as far as Windows Phone not being relevant, if it wasn't relevant, it would not even be mentioned anywhere. Yet, there are numerous articles by iOS and Android fanboys recently pointing to the inevitable doom of the platform. They are working very hard to deflect and minimize all the intensely positive news in the press about Microsoft and the upcoming Windows 10, which, will also be for phones. That's the part that has them scared. When people are looking forward to a release of an OS that is going on a phone as well as a desktop, it has got to scare the britches off the poor ignorant so-and-so at BGR. If they don't do something to deflect all the popularity building and get the animosity talk going again, then WP will be the single most dangerous thing to happen to both iOS and Android. It's the trash talk and bad feelings toward Microsoft that has kept WP from getting marketshare and getting the apps, and if Satya Nadella succeeds in getting people to love Microsoft again, it will spell the eventual doom of their competitors.

    Is it true that WP has lost "market share" while gaining sales? Yes. However, it's the long term that Microsoft has set up for this last year. They stockpiled their cash so that they could ride this out and make Windows 10 the greatest thing ever. They aren't stupid. This has been a plan for the last few years, but one they have had to be patient to implement.

    Right now, Microsoft has the top email and calendar apps on both Android and iOS. They are now getting people used to what they could have on a Windows 10 phone. They also have the best productivity apps with MS Office 365, which people will be able to get free on Windows 10 for phones, instead of getting crippled functionality free and having to pay for advanced features. Windows 10 phone users will get it all free.

    As Windows 10 becomes dominate in people's workplace, and people get more accustomed to using and even loving Microsoft services, they will naturally start feeling better about Microsoft in general and the phone share will begin an uptick.

    This will take time, yes. That's okay. The platform will not die, and it will take off one day as all this comes to fruition. This is why Microsoft stockpiled so much money. So they could afford to give away Windows 10 instead of making people pay upgrades. This will get people to the platform that Microsoft needs them to be on. One day, as Microsoft says, people will no longer ask "What version of Windows do you run?" because that will become irrelevant.

    Windows Phone is far from irrelevant. Otherwise, there would be no talk of it out there. When iOS fansite dedicates an article to it, even if just to trash it, it just proves that it is indeed relevant after all. Otherwise, why bother talking about it if it doesn't matter?
    Couldn't have said it better myself. You have a real understanding of the elegant strategy that MS has decided on. A full frontal assault, as other users have recommended, will not work....
    Avi Anand likes this.
    02-26-2015 02:36 PM
  8. hotphil's Avatar
    You haven't really been paying attention to what Microsoft is doing, have you?

    .
    ​how rude!

    ​I've been paying more attention than a lot of folk.
    ​and I think you missed the point of my post. But hey, never mind.
    02-26-2015 04:47 PM
  9. DJCBS's Avatar
    The numbers that show the decline of Windows Phone to 2.7 are NOT from BGR but from IDC Android and iOS Squeeze the Competition, Swelling to 96.3% of the Smartphone Operating System Market for Both 4Q14 and CY14, According to IDC - prUS25450615

    No matter how biased BGR may be, you can't deny the fact that marketshare has dropped. The disappearance of Nokia from the scene and the absence of any other reputable OEM to promote WP is, to me, the main reason for that. People just got sick of waiting for Microsoft to take the platform seriously and with the only company that was making the effort gone, they simply didn't care to put up with it anymore.

    I don't think Windows Phone has any future, even under "Windows 10 for mobile". I can see people getting Windows phone devices if they come bundled with their laptops or PCs but I don't think we'll ever see any significant shift from Android and iOS towards WP.

    But Microsoft will be fine. They aren't releasing apps and services on Android and iOS for no reason. They know that ultimately, having people use their services is much more important than Windows Phone or Windows X for mobile. Sooner or later I think they'll shut down Microsoft Mobile and Windows Phone with it.

    (note: I'm still using "Windows Phone" to refer to what they call "Windows 10 for mobile" too. Because it will never be Windows 10 on a phone until you can run full blown Windows in it. I think using "Windows 10 for mobile" is a terrible idea as it will probably create the same expectations on people that Windows RT did).
    02-26-2015 06:21 PM
  10. Ali Collins's Avatar
    Really? Then explain how Windows Phones sales are increasing in 22 countries - it was an article on Forbes. I can't post links yet but it's getting more and more popular. Give it time.
    02-26-2015 06:28 PM
  11. hotphil's Avatar
    I think you've missed the point of Windows 10 for Phones.
    ​It's "full blown Windows" in that it's the same kernel and will be able to run the same apps. The UI will be slightly different, natch.
    02-26-2015 06:29 PM
  12. DJCBS's Avatar
    Really? Then explain how Windows Phones sales are increasing in 22 countries - it was an article on Forbes. I can't post links yet but it's getting more and more popular. Give it time.
    Selling more phones isn't the same as growing marketshare. You can sell more phones yet still have your marketshare decrease. How? Simple: Android and iOS sell a lot more phones than you and people buy more of them. You can sell 10 million Windows Phones, if Android sells 1 billion, your marketshare will decrease. Because even if you were able to sell more units than the past year, demand was also greater and you weren't able to grow along with the demand.

    Time is out. WP has been around for 5 years now. If it didn't catch on with Nokia around, without anyone pushing the cart (yeah, it won't be Microsoft doing it, you can put money on that), and no other OEM to take Nokia's place, the entire thing will just whither and die.


    I think you've missed the point of Windows 10 for Phones.
    ​It's "full blown Windows" in that it's the same kernel and will be able to run the same apps. The UI will be slightly different, natch.
    It's NOT full blown Windows. Don't convince yourself of that. Windows is desktop. It's x86 programs. It's true multitasking and multiwindows. Windows Phone 10 is nothing of the sort. It's just Windows Phone made to LOOK like Windows 10, running apps that also run on Windows 10 BUT have to be made from scratch specifically for publication on the Windows Store, and it's completely locked up, unlike full blown Windows (no freedom to customize or anything for you, mister).
    The problem with people thinking that Windows Phone 10 is the same as Windows 10 will lead to major disappointment once again.
    a5cent, D M C, Tom Snyder and 1 others like this.
    02-26-2015 08:26 PM
  13. Godson Arun Kumar's Avatar
    Im not an "astrologer" im a windows phone fan thats pissed off and im not the only one either .. Im tired of waiting for some magical appgap to close .. It hasnt happened yet and It'll never happen dude .. MSFT has given up on WP you dont get it? .. So with my tech experience and my business experience.. The WP OS will be dead within 3 years. Its all about apps .. Why have a smartphone you can do anything with wtf??!!
    I sure hope you're wrong coz I have all the apps I ever need. Especially local apps for widely used services are all here in the windows store for my region. So can't understand the app-gap you're saying bout. As far as the OS goes, love it's animations, live tiles and simplicity. Losing windows OS would mean the end of my smart mobile experience. Would die rather than use android. Any way can't see what you're predicting in my retrospective of using windows on phones.
    Last edited by Godson Arun Kumar; 02-27-2015 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Clarity of thought.
    Avi Anand and HeyCori like this.
    02-27-2015 04:08 AM
  14. hotphil's Avatar
    It's NOT full blown Windows. Don't convince yourself of that. Windows is desktop. It's x86 programs.
    ​Just "no".
    ​Windows 8 and upwards have this user perception problem. It all goes away with one simple sentence - Desktop is an app.
    ​Bang. The rest all falls into place.
    ​Anyone unable to understand that Desktop is an app will have problems with Windows 8 upwards.
    ​The OS is the same. How it adjusts itself to optimise a device's capabilities is the differentiator. Anyone not grasping that concept needs to get off the Windows train at the next station.
    02-27-2015 05:43 AM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    ​user perception problem. It all goes away with one simple sentence - Desktop is an app.
    It may be best for consumers to think of the Windows desktop in that way (or maybe not). Either way, it's still technically incorrect.

    Even if the desktop was just an app, MS would still have to clarify that although "it's all the same W10", not all versions of W10 can run the desktop app. But if what is allegedly the same can't run the same apps, why call it the same at all? Would it not be more honest to admit it's different?

    That "the desktop is an app" also isn't Microsoft's marketing message. Their message is "it's all the same W10", and that is guaranteed to confuse far more people than it will help, with or without the desktop app spin.

    You could just as well call a bicycle and a motorbike "the same". Both have two wheels, both have one seat and an almost identical way of steering. One just happens to have a bit more, the engine, but no big difference.. basically the same, right? It makes no sense when applied to anything but OS's that are unfortunately a lot more abstract than two-wheeled vehicles.

    IMHO it's best to give products names that reflect what they really are.

    At least in my book (and almost anyone else's that understands operating systems), calling two OS's "the same" implies that they support the same APIs and run the same software. W10M and W10 don't do either.

    That's actually a good thing and doesn't, or at least shouldn't, detract from W10's reputation.
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-27-2015 at 06:47 AM.
    N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    02-27-2015 06:14 AM
  16. rhapdog's Avatar
    ​how rude!

    ​I've been paying more attention than a lot of folk.
    ​and I think you missed the point of my post. But hey, never mind.
    And I think you didn't read my full post, else you would have known what point that Microsoft has been doing that you have missed. But hey, never mind.

    ​Just "no".
    ​Windows 8 and upwards have this user perception problem. It all goes away with one simple sentence - Desktop is an app.
    ​Bang. The rest all falls into place.
    ​Anyone unable to understand that Desktop is an app will have problems with Windows 8 upwards.
    It may be best for consumers to think of the Windows desktop in that way (or maybe not). Either way, it's still technically incorrect.
    The Desktop is not technically an app, though it may help some users to think of it that way. On the Windows 8 Start screen, it sure looks like it.

    However, what we have here is the following:
    The Desktop was an "interface" by means of which people would launch their x86 or x64 code.
    The Windows 8 Start Screen was an "interface" by means of which people would launch their Windows Apps.

    There are actually 2 separate Windows APIs at work here. One API is used for Desktop programs which are compiled explicitly for x86 based processors. Because they are compiled to a binary format to work on x86 processors, they cannot work on ARM or other processors.
    The other API is the universal API where apps can be made for many devices using the same basic API. This is the Windows that is the same on both the phone and the Desktop in Windows 10. The Desktop programs are currently "separate", and you have to exit to the desktop in order to properly run desktop programs.

    This is very much history repeating itself. Let's go back a few years, and let me explain if I may.

    Windows 3.1 and DOS... Windows 3.1 was an "interface" that ran on top of DOS, much like the "apps" run on an interface that runs on the Desktop Mode on a PC. Eventually, we came to Windows 95/98, where though DOS was still loaded, and Windows ran on top of it still, it launched directly into Windows and people began to use DOS less and less. Then Windows XP came out, and DOS was no more. Now, DOS was "emulated" in a console window for those that still needed it. Windows is no longer run on DOS, but the DOS emulation is still provided, though not as compatible as it once was.

    In the future, it could be possible that an x86 emulation app will actually be made available, and Windows 10 may ditch the "desktop" part of the code within Windows (in the far future, several years at least), and instead provide an "emulation app" so that those programs can still be run. As a universal emulation app, it will make it possible to run all desktop programs on tablets. It may not be feasible on phones due to the display size, etc., but may actually one day be possible.

    Is that what Microsoft has planned? How should I know? I'm not Microsoft, I'm just saying what is possible within the realm of possibility by looking at history as an indicator. It is certainly possible. Would it be worthwhile? How should I know? What do I look like, Elijah?
    DJCBS likes this.
    02-27-2015 08:43 AM
  17. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    In the future, it could be possible that an x86 emulation app will actually be made available, and Windows 10 may ditch the "desktop" part of the code within Windows (in the far future, several years at least), and instead provide an "emulation app" so that those programs can still be run. As a universal emulation app, it will make it possible to run all desktop programs on tablets. It may not be feasible on phones due to the display size, etc., but may actually one day be possible.
    Now that is a very interesting idea. I am not Elijah either, but my gut tells me that's definitely the direction they are (or should be) headed. I'm pretty sure the Modern APIs need to be a lot stronger to be able to pull off something as big and powerful as taking the entirety of the core which runs x86/x64 applications in unlimited memory space with full access to the filesystem and making it run as an "app." Come to think of it, full access isn't needed, just an emulated "C" drive with the requisite Documents and Program Files, etc. folders. The whole thing could even be a VHDx, synchronized to your cloud storage provider of choice.
    02-27-2015 09:51 AM
  18. Oldmajor's Avatar
    The problem with the article is the headline. I have no idea why iOS is included in the market share domination headline. Apple has consistently been losing market share every year. They may be selling a lot of phones but they are losing market share just like Microsoft.

    I don't believe all is lost because just 5 years ago Android was virtually non existent and RIM/Symbian ruled. This is tech, things change all the time.

    But for the record, match someone with 82% market share with someone with 15% and saying they rule the market is a bit disingenuous. Should be "With 85% of the market Windows and Android reign supreme!"
    02-27-2015 10:09 AM
  19. saulgould13's Avatar
    With MWC coming up next week it's safe to say MS will introduce more low to mid spec handsets, meaning cheaper phones in more hands and profit margins up. Android started this route if I recall a few years back.
    02-27-2015 12:44 PM
  20. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    With MWC coming up next week it's safe to say MS will introduce more low to mid spec handsets, meaning cheaper phones in more hands and profit margins up. Android started this route if I recall a few years back.

    I don't know the global situation, but in the US, Android took off because it was an alternative to iPhone when iPhone was an AT&T exclusive.
    02-27-2015 01:03 PM
  21. slivy58's Avatar
    Patience.

    MS always plays the long game.
    Yes patience is a virtue but not in the ever changing techno world and especially not with mobile phones, you take the slow and steady route here and soon you'll be sucking the hind tit which is what I see happening with WP in general, since I've jumped on-board again with the inception of WP8 there appears to be a steady decline in the "forward" movement compared to what was seen in the beginning. Me thinks the introduction of numerous budget devices of late has helped yet only because these are unsuspecting buyers, they don't realize that soon they'll be left in the dust due to hardware limitations.

    Speaking of budget/low-end devices, I think if MS doesn't get with the program soon and start outputting some higher end devices, flagships if you will, they'll just be shooting themselves in the foot, waiting until Win10 arrives is not the answer especially if the Denim rollout is any indication as to how 10 will materialize. You look at it now, why can't most phones utilize certain features of "Lumia Camera 5" or even get the app for that matter, or "Hey Cortana", that's right, hardware limitations, it is only going to get worse.

    Apps are another story, my concern has nothing to do with quantity but more with support and quality, cannot recall experiencing so many problems on other platforms where an app is updated that fails, seeing them rarely if ever getting updated or being pulled and no longer supporting the Windows ecosystems.
    Last edited by Elky64; 02-28-2015 at 10:30 AM.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    02-27-2015 11:23 PM
  22. plot_almighty's Avatar
    *sigh* The curse Apple and Google have placed on us all, fine tuning our brains to believe that the short term matters most.

    http://mobile.itbusinessedge.com/blo...-so-fast..html

    ....Im just gonna leave this here.

    EDIT-Im having a blast reading all the people posting in this thread who just KNOW that WP is dead, that its never gonna over come the app gap, that iOS and Android dominance is forever, that WPs future can be determined for certain on one kind of report, just like they knew from last years one kind of report. Give the article I've posted a good read. See if it doesn't shake up some memories in some of you.
    Last edited by plot_almighty; 02-28-2015 at 12:29 AM.
    02-27-2015 11:58 PM
  23. Dr_8820's Avatar
    Let's see. ...I have been with Microsoft for quite a while now, I'd like to think that I have some insight on the matter. ..Palm Treo 700WX, HTC Touch, HTC Touch Pro, HTC Touch Pro2, HTC HD2, HTC HD7, NOKIA Lumia 810, Nokia Lumia 1520... and market share has been declining since. Here in the States, only AT&T had the iPhone, so Verizon, Sprint and T mobile pushed android as an alternative. With WP, all of the carriers, including the so called premier partner, push people away from the platform. But hey, what do I know? After all of these phones that run various versions of Windows that Microsoft has ceased development and support for, maybe this windows 10 will finally be the one that Microsoft actually sticks with and not abandon like they always do with their products! 😐

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
    02-28-2015 05:10 AM
  24. Gabriel Olaru's Avatar
    The World isn't united states. In my country I start to see more people with WP , people that recommend other people WP :)
    luisfarelo and neo158 like this.
    02-28-2015 05:24 AM
  25. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    *sigh* The curse Apple and Google have placed on us all, fine tuning our brains to believe that the short term matters most.

    http://mobile.itbusinessedge.com/blo...-so-fast..html

    ....Im just gonna leave this here.

    EDIT-Im having a blast reading all the people posting in this thread who just KNOW that WP is dead, that its never gonna over come the app gap, that iOS and Android dominance is forever, that WPs future can be determined for certain on one kind of report, just like they knew from last years one kind of report. Give the article I've posted a good read. See if it doesn't shake up some memories in some of you.
    Most people are going by the only thing that they can and that is the past president that Microsoft themselves have shown.

    Your writer is another hopeful holdout who is forgetting that this isn't 2007 and smartphones are mainstream now not business extentions as most were then and 10 will be the 4th iteration for WP. While 8.1 is the best so far, Microsofts arrogance relying on desktop numbers and old school marketing has allowed any hope of relevance in the phone sector to languish and now the new savior is Windows 10.

    Windows 10 won't save the phone division by itself. It is going to take a conjoined effort of all the divisions and a whole different approach to marketing the phones to get people to want to buy them. So far this has not happened. What advertising has been produced and shown does nothing... Nada to make people want to leave Android or IOS.

    I will make my own personal prediction and it pains me to say this but I too believe that the phone division will go away and soon. It is nothing but a cash cow that is costing them more to keep it going than to allow it to die.

    The low end devices they are selling isn't enough to keep it afloat and to make a real difference they have to be viable in the high end market in not only the top of the line phones but in the apps as well. This means that you have to compete head to head with the other platforms on all of the carriers and understand what the public wants in their phones. Microsoft doesn't know how to sell it phones nor what people really want. It killed it's best chance when it killed off the McClaren. The interest in 8.1 basically wained and the old wait for the next os to save the platform came back. The traction justly earned for it was allowed to be lost and coupling that with more apps being made unavailable has put the writing on the wall as far as many people feel.

    Microsofts vision is unattainable as long as it is business as usual inside Microsoft. The share holders want return on investment and they aren't getting that like they were hoping for. Microsoft is going to have to spend billions in marketing and cost on development of flagship phones and not to mention being aggressive when dealing with the carriers. This is a whole lot of changes and a great deal of expenses and I don't believe they have the leadership to do this for the phone division. They haven't shown that they want to, and truth be told they have shown just the opposite. The more software they decide to allow on the other platforms the less likely that people will want to leave that platform. Those who believe otherwise are just fooling themselves since there isn't enough to get them to leave.....

    It's a crappy predicament they have caused because of the potential... But I don't believe that potential will be realized to it's fullest.

    Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8
    DJCBS likes this.
    02-28-2015 08:29 AM
80 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Waze for Windows Phone gets its first update in a year
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-25-2015, 02:20 PM
  2. Please Nag Pebble Watch to Support Windows 8 Phones
    By richv77 in forum Windows Phone 8
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-25-2015, 01:04 PM
  3. PSA: 6tin will return to the Windows Phone Store as soon as error is fixed
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-25-2015, 09:42 AM
  4. How do I shoot a 4k video on a Windows phone?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-25-2015, 08:26 AM
  5. Rote for Windows Phone - a head scratcher of a puzzle game
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-25-2015, 07:50 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD